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Evolution driven by laws? Not random mutations?

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So claims a recent book, Arrival of the Fittest, by Andreas Wagner, professor of evolutionary biology at U Zurich in Switzerland (also associated with the Santa Fe Institute). He lectures worldwide and is a fellow of the American Association for the Advancement of Sciences.

From the book announcement:

Can random mutations over a mere 3.8 billion years solely be responsible for wings, eyeballs, knees, camouflage, lactose digestion, photosynthesis, and the rest of nature’s creative marvels? And if the answer is no, what is the mechanism that explains evolution’s speed and efficiency?

In Arrival of the Fittest, renowned evolutionary biologist Andreas Wagner draws on over fifteen years of research to present the missing piece in Darwin’s theory. Using experimental and computational technologies that were heretofore unimagined, he has found that adaptations are not just driven by chance, but by a set of laws that allow nature to discover new molecules and mechanisms in a fraction of the time that random variation would take.

From a review (which is careful to note that it is not a religious argument):

The question “how does nature innovate?” often elicits a succinct but unsatisfying response – random mutations. Andreas Wagner first illustrates why random mutations alone cannot be the cause of innovations – the search space for innovations, be it at the level of genes, protein, or metabolic reactions is too large that makes the probability of stumbling upon all the innovations needed to make a little fly (let alone humans) too low to have occurred within the time span the universe has been around.

He then shows some of the fundamental hidden principles that can actually make innovations possible for natural selection to then select and preserve those innovations.

Like interacting parallel worlds, this would be momentous news if it is true. But someone is going to have to read the book and assess the strength of the laws advanced.

One thing for sure, if an establishment figure can safely write this kind of thing, Darwin’s theory is coming under more serious fire than ever. But we knew, of course, when Nature published an article on the growing dissent within the ranks about Darwinism.

In origin of life research, there has long been a law vs. chance controversy. For example, Does nature just “naturally” produce life? vs. Maybe if we throw enough models at the origin of life… some of them will stick?

Note: You may have to apprise your old schoolmarm that Darwin’s theory* is “natural selection acting on random mutations,” not “evolution” in general. It is the only theory that claims sheer randomness can lead to creativity, in conflict with information theory. See also: Being as Communion.

*(or neo-Darwinism, or whatever you call what the Darwin-in-the-schools lobby is promoting or Evolution Sunday is celebrating).*

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Comments
Why do some evos think that blind watchmaker evolution is not relevant? That is their position and they are admitting that?! Really?! SweetJoe
November 1, 2014
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71 keith s October 31, 2014 at 9:49 pm I’m not confused, cantor. I’m calling your bluff.
Three times I've offered to tutor you if you would explain what is confusing you. Three times you've dodged and weaved. I'm calling your bluff.cantor
November 1, 2014
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astroman:
Joe, your blind watchmaker games were played out long ago.
And I won. Unguided evolution is blind watchmaker evolution. Natural selection is still blind and mindless
Try something that’s new and relevant.
Blind watchmaker evolution is the opposing position. Are you now admitting your position isn't relevant?
I see that you want all of your opponents to be expelled.
I see that you are still a twisted jerk.Joe
November 1, 2014
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Bystander "Of course not. Just that most scientific ID arguments is based on a lot of things written by him, including famous/infamous(depending on which camp you are in) Complex Specified Information." But again, what does this have to do with what I originally wrote to Keith and his failure to respond to my question as opposed to the usual deflection by Evos ?DavidD
November 1, 2014
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wd400:
Recombination is indeed basic genetics,...
The question is- "Is recombination a blind watchmaker or intelligent design mechanism?"Joe
November 1, 2014
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Joe, your blind watchmaker games were played out long ago. Try something that's new and relevant. I see that you want all of your opponents to be expelled.Astroman
November 1, 2014
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keith s:
As you can see, the ‘islands of function’ argument is dead in the water, so to speak.
Unguided evolution was stillborn- it never had a chance (pun intended). :razz:Joe
November 1, 2014
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David @150
“Dembski is proponent of ID.” So what ? What does that have to do with my believing everything that he writes down with keyboard or pen ? Does everyone have to pass a requirement for belief to be able to post ?
Of course not. Just that most scientific ID arguments is based on a lot of things written by him, including famous/infamous(depending on which camp you are in) Complex Specified Information.the bystander
November 1, 2014
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astorman:
Joe, please explain what you mean. Are you saying that kairosfocus and all other ID proponents who go on and on about searches are wrong?
They are wrt evolutionism. Even Dembski now acknowledges that. However they are giving it the benefit of the doubt by calling it a search and at least attempting to model it. That is far more than evos do.Joe
November 1, 2014
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keith s:
Could you explain why Thorton gets banned for referring to “moronic crackpots”, while Joe remains despite saying things that are far more incendiary, for months on end?
thorton incites and I merely respond (you can use any evo in place of thorton). Get rid of the antagonists and I am OK.Joe
November 1, 2014
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Astroman- Has anyone submitted their blind watchmaker claims to any peer reviewed scientific publications? If not, why not? If your claims have scientific merit I would think that you would have confidence in them and would try hard to get them published.Joe
November 1, 2014
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Bystander "Dembski is proponent of ID." So what ? What does that have to do with my believing everything that he writes down with keyboard or pen ? Does everyone have to pass a requirement for belief to be able to post ? Alan Fox "Oh dear! Bill Dembski unknown by a commenter on (formerly) his own personal website." Why don't we discuss your Gay Porn website Alan and your published books on the homosexual lifestyle from the French Perspective. Let's talk about how these debates have nothing to do with science for you but rather your hatred of other's religious worldview which conflicts with your own. Explain to us how Science is a nothing more than a lazy man's post for you to lean on.DavidD
November 1, 2014
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k, have you submitted your ID claims to any peer reviewed scientific publications? If not, why not? If your claims have scientific merit I would think that you would have confidence in them and would try hard to get them published.Astroman
November 1, 2014
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KS, re bomb challenge cf here. KFkairosfocus
November 1, 2014
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k, in addition to your usual huffing and puffing, you said: "Actually, atheists and the like can be design thinkers, and some are." Please name several or more atheists who accept "Intelligent Design". Can you name even one? k said: The design inference is not a worldview project..." Then why do you and other ID proponents promote ID as a worldview, and especially as a Christian ID-Creation worldview? Are you denying that you promote your Christian, Evangelical, Fundamentalist, inseparably joined ID-Creation worldview and everything that you include in it in your lengthy sermonical speeches here, on your blogs, and on other blogs?Astroman
November 1, 2014
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Astroman said:
Do you believe that the ID mechanism is the existence, knowledge, and creative power of the Biblical God, which is also called the Abrahamic God?
No. I'm not a Christian nor of any Abrahamic faith or any organized religion whatsoever.
Also, if what you say were true, ID proponents wouldn’t be bringing religious references and arguments, and lots of them, to the table.
That people also argue about the religious/philosophical implications of a theory doesn't render the theory non-scientific. Even Darwinists bring religious and philosophical arguments to the table, such as the pernicious "god wouldn't do it that way" argument, which is a religious argument.
Based on your claims, will you please explain the Wedge document and agenda?
It's a political document that was drafted as a plan to use ID for social/political purposes. The fact that people use ID or Darwinism for the purposes of their social agenda (remember Darwinism-based eugenics?) doesn't mean ID isn't a legitimate scientific endeavor.William J Murray
November 1, 2014
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William, if what you say is true, no ID proponent should be afraid to answer the following question with a yes or no: Do you believe that the ID mechanism is the existence, knowledge, and creative power of the Biblical God, which is also called the Abrahamic God? Also, if what you say were true, ID proponents wouldn't be bringing religious references and arguments, and lots of them, to the table. Based on your claims, will you please explain the Wedge document and agenda?Astroman
November 1, 2014
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A: You have already tried the dishonesty projection gambit elsewhere; and have yet to do the decent thing when it was pointed out. I also took time to lay out for you a set of links to relevant discussions on such matters as the grounding of worldviews and why a reasonably informed person might have a theistic worldview. These matters are irrelevant to the inductive logic grounding of the design inference on empirically observable, reliable sign. KF PS: you are asking for a difference between theistic evolutionism and design thought. Actually, atheists and the like can be design thinkers, and some are. Maybe they are stoics or the like and see rationality as inherent in the world order. Pantheists and panentheists can be design thinkers, probably with some overlap to the stoics I just mentioned; of these, E of the Nile, there be billions. Theistic evolutionism can be linked to design thought, but in many cases today, tyere is a feeling that design is not evident from the observable phenomena of the world of life, it is apprehended at a higher level. The design inference is not a worldview project, it is a simple inductive logical inference, that there are features we may see in the world that on inductive investigation, point to design. For instance, functionally specific complex organisation and associated information, cf here for a discussion. And I really gotta run.kairosfocus
November 1, 2014
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ID is a scientific theory that intelligence can leave identifiable, quantifiable evidence, such as CSI, which is not known to be produced by any other causal agency (other than intelligence), which leaves intelligent agency as the best explanation for the evidence in question. ID doesn't claim that the source of the evidence is God. Theistic evolution is the philosophical/religious view that religious teachings about god are compatible with biological evolution as science currently describes it.William J Murray
November 1, 2014
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PPPS: I guess I have to at least note that I specifically spoke to moving islands, using the further simple metaphor of sandy barrier islands that change topography, shape and location; I need not go into 10^59+ dimensional spaces in a blog that in the end has to be reasonably communicative, just, an extended vector of length n can model an n dimensional space with n degrees of freedom, and 10^59+ ndimensions are not materially different from 3 or from the 100+ used to model a modern economy for input-output analysis, etc, and a memory space with 10^9 cells of 8 bits is a physical instantiation of a 10^9 dimensional space with 256 values for each element, equivalent to an 8 bn dimension space with two values for each element. Indeed, I spoke to moving islands of function in those barrier island terms years ago -- I come from a city with a tombolo across the mouth of its harbour that has played a key role in its history starting with the notorious 1692 quake that made the tombolo drastically and effectively instantly shift, followed by 300 years of rebuilding and another quake in 1907 that did interesting things. And I now live in an island drastically reshaped in a few years by a volcano, i.e. static terra firma is not part of my underlying understanding of the world. Such makes no fundamental difference to the search challenge to the point of being a confusing distractor, rather than a reasonable objection. And BTW, climate is a fiction, a moving average of weather across 33 years so trend is inherently embedded in that construct.kairosfocus
November 1, 2014
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Since theistic evolution was mentioned, will you ID proponents please describe the differences between ID and theistic evolution?Astroman
November 1, 2014
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Astroman, ID doesn't impose any a priori "knowledge" that god exists. ID doesn't impose any ideological preference on how the evolutionary evidence is sorted. What ID does is use abductive reasoning to reach the best inference given the evidence at hand, without insisting on ideological limitations for the conclusion. Darwinism holds a priori that unintelligent causal forces must be sufficient (refer to Lewontin) and thus all theories must include only "natural" (materialist) causes. ID brings no such bias to the table. It doesn't claim that intelligence must be part of the causal explanation; indeed, ID holds that unless the signature evidence of intelligence is above a fail-safe threshold, material explanations are the better causal explanation, even if that cause is currently unknown. ID does not insist that the source of said intelligence, if evidence is found, is "God". The a prior bias distinction is clear; Darwinists insist that all explanations in science maintain materialism; ID does not impose any such biased restriction.William J Murray
November 1, 2014
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k said: "What is the independent basis for knowing that such exists apart from imposed a priori materialism that then presents the tree of life that embeds this as proof of it?" k, what is the independent basis for knowing that your supernatural God exists and is the designer and creator of the universe apart from imposed a priori religious beliefs that then present Christian ID-Creationist claims that embed this as proof of it? Or this version: k, what is the independent basis for knowing that Godly ID-Creation exists apart from imposed a priori religious beliefs that then present the ID inference that embeds this as proof of it? Or this version: k, what is the independent basis for knowing that Godly ID-Creation exists apart from imposed a priori religious beliefs that then present religious beliefs about Godly ID-Creation that embed this as proof of it? Or this version: k, what is the independent basis for knowing that Christian Godly ID-Creation exists apart from imposed a priori religious belief that then presents refuted claims about FSCO/I, irreducible complexity, probabilities, needle in haystack searches, extremely rough landscapes, islands of function, etc., that embed this as proof of it? I could come up with more versions but no matter how many I come up with I'm sure that you will miss the point. P.S. Why do you abbreviate some people's usernames?Astroman
November 1, 2014
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keith said:
Logic is a function of our fallible human minds. If our minds are fallible, then our logic might be incorrect. If we can’t be absolutely certain that our logic is correct, then we can’t be absolutely certain of the conclusion of the argument. We can be quite certain that error exists, but we can’t be absolutely certain of it.
Apparently, keith thinks it is possible that 1+1=5 AND 1+1=2 AND 1+1=.234 AND 1+1=0, since he cannot be absolutely certain that error exists. One simply cannot argue with that kind of delusional thinking.William J Murray
November 1, 2014
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PPS: Gotta go, I trust others will be able to deal with anything more above. A slice of the cake has all the ingredients in it.kairosfocus
November 1, 2014
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KS, the pejorative strawmannising matter continues. Did you notice that I referred above to Hamming distance as extended, and to how the string of chained variables that WLOG describes a relevant config space immediately addresses multi-dimensionality? It seems that you need to address what a phase space is, and what degrees of freedom are, precisely huge multidimensionality, for small thermodynamic samples of the order 10^22 dimensions, and up; e.g. a simple ideal gas has three degrees of freedom per molecule, put a good fraction of a mole together and see where that gets ya. Recall, that is where I started from, statistical thermodynamics and the like. Using the 10^57 atoms as observers flipping and observing a tray of 500 coins each toy example to illustrate the search problem, that's 500 dimensions per tray of coins, with 10^57 trays. Explored at 10^57 flips, 10^14 times per second for 10^17 s. Either you hopelessly failed to interpret reasonably or you are playing at red herrings led away to strawmen. The further point is, that regardless of how such islands may change shape and migrate, the scope of the config space becomes so much greater than search resources on sol system scope or observed cosmos scope that the isolation of such islands makes blind search strategies maximally implausible to be successful. Where, that complex 3-d entities can be reduced to strings of Y/N q's structured per a protocol (what AutoCAD etc do to represent as files), analysis on digital binary strings is WLOG. Where, further, searches for golden searches face the point that a sample/search of a set of possibilities of cardinality, W, comes from the set of subsets, of cardinality 2^W. Searches for golden searches, S4GS, will be far more implausible than the already maximally implausible direct search for islands of function. The problem is not to move around within islands of function, but to find them in config spaces that dwarf the toy space I used that already shows that a search using up sol system resources [and spotting you the apparatus for 500 coin flips, scans etc] would be looking at a straw sized sample relative to a cubical haystack as thick as our galaxy at its central bulge. KF PS: Your logical error is revealing, first you seem absolutely sure of being prone to error. Next, you ducked the point that your conscious self-awareness is a first certainly known truth, and that in that context, rational contemplation confronts you with other certain truths Error exists, E is such that we may deny ~E, and join E AND ~ E which means that one or the other must be false leading to the immediate point, E. We may and do err but that does not mean that we have no points of certain knowledge of truth. Consicousness is one, existence of error is another, classic first principles of reason pivoting on the recognition of any distinct thing, A leading to a world partition W = { A | ~A } is another. The existence of numbers is necessarily true but such is not self evident as the process to get there is complex. And so forth.kairosfocus
November 1, 2014
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KS, do the words policy + advisor mean anything to you? Why did you immediately jump to the assumption that I am merely interfering? That bit of conclusion jumping you just indulged may be one of the most revealing instances of attitude revealed by projection ever seen at UD. KFkairosfocus
November 1, 2014
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Oh dear! Bill Dembski unknown by a commenter on (formerly) his own personal website.Alan Fox
November 1, 2014
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@David Dembski is proponent of ID. He is as important as Behe .the bystander
November 1, 2014
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keith s "Do you know who Dembski is? Do you think he’s a “Darwinist”?" Keith, I couldn't care less who Demski is or who or what he purports to be or what he believes. I find there are those who participate in many of these time wasting origins debates will often try and pacify evolutionists to by using such terms like micro-evolution etc to show good faith in attempting common ground with evolutionists. Unfortunately common ground to an evolutionist is that one must accept & believe everything that spews forth from their mouth or keyboard. So using such evolutionary terms is nothing more than shoe-horning in the actual word "evolution" itself into any origins debate discussion for which the typical evolutionist will never be satisfied with anyway. Perhaps you should ask someone who actually beliefs Theistic Evolution ?DavidD
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