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Mark Frank poses an interesting thought experiment on free will

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In a comment on kairosfocus’ latest excellent post, Does ID ASSUME “contra-causal free will” and “intelligence” (and so injects questionable “assumptions”)?, Mark Frank proposes a thought experiment in support of his view that determinism is fully compatible with free will. It goes as follows:

Start with a dog. Dogs make choices in the sense that they may accept or reject a treat, may obey or disobey an order, may chase a rabbit or not. Suppose we advance our understanding of dogs’ brains and thought processes so that a genius vet can predict with 100% accuracy how a dog will choose in any given situation given its past history and current circumstances. Surely this is conceivable? If we manage this do we now say that dogs are making real choices? If it they are real choices then this is compatibilism in action. So I guess, in these circumstances, you would say that we have shown they do not really have free will.

Now extend it to infants – say two year olds. They make choices – eat or don’t eat, cry or don’t cry, hug or don’t hug. So let’s imagine we repeat the process with them. A genius paediatrician in this case (maybe you one day!). Are the infants also lacking free will? Either compatabilism is true or they haven’t got free will.

OK. Now apply it to an adult human. If it is conceivable for a dog and an infant then surely it is conceivable for an adult. A genius psychologist observes an adult and is able to predict all their decisions and explain why – exactly how each decision is determined by their genetics, personal history and current environment (it doesn’t have to be a materialist explanation). Has that adult got free will? Either compatabilism is true or they haven’t got free will.

And finally apply to yourself. Suppose it turns out a genius psychologist has been monitoring you all your life and has been able to correctly predict all your decisions and also how the decision making process worked in detail – how your different motivations were balanced and interacted with your perceptions and memories resulting in each decision (including any dithering and worrying about whether you got it right). Would that mean you thought you had free will but actually didn’t? Either compatabilism is true or you haven’t got free will.

As my computer is currently kaput, this will be a very short post. I’d like to suggest that what Mark Frank has left out of the equation is language, the capacity for which is what differentiates us from other animals. (Human infants possess this capacity but do not yet exercise it, partly because their brains, when they are newborn, are still too immature for language production, and also because they have yet to build up a linguistic databank that would enable them to express what they want to get across.)

Language is central to human rationality because rationality is not just a matter of selecting the appropriate means to realize a desired end: it is also a critical activity, in which agents are expected to be able to justify their choices and respond to questions like “Why did you do that?” People don’t just act rationally; they give reasons for their actions. In order to do that, you need a language in which you can generate an indefinitely large number of sentences, as the range of possible situations in which you might find yourself is potentially infinite – particularly when we factor in the little complicating circumstances that may arise.

What is distinctive about human language, as opposed to animal “language,” is precisely this ability to generate an infinite number of sentences. This uniquely human ability was the subject of a recent article in the Washington Post titled, Chirps, whistles, clicks: Do any animals have a true ‘language’?, which was discussed in a recent post by News (emphases are mine – VJT):

A new study on animal calls has found that the patterns of barks, whistles, and clicks from seven different species appear to be more complex than previously thought. The researchers used mathematical tests to see how well the sequences of sounds fit to models ranging in complexity…

“We’re still a very, very long way from understanding this transition from animal communication to human language, and it’s a huge mystery at the moment,” said study author and zoologist Arik Kershenbaum, who did the work at the National Institute for Mathematical and Biological Synthesis…

“What makes human language special is that there’s no finite limit as to what comes next,” he said….

But what separates language from communication? Why can’t we assume that whales, with their elaborate songs, are simply speaking “whale-ese”?

To be considered a true language, there are a few elements that are usually considered to be essential, says Kershenbaum. For one, it must be learned rather than instinctive — both whales and birds have this piece covered. For instance, killer whale calves learn a repertoire of calls from their mothers, and the sounds gradually evolve from erratic screams to adult-like pulsed calls and whistles.

What holds whales and other animals back from language is that there is a limit to what they can express. There are only so many calls that each may convey different emotions, but only we have an unlimited ability to express abstract ideas.

The problem for scientists is that no one knows how language evolved. Oddly enough, there don’t seem to be any transitional proto-languages between whale and bird songs — said to be the most sophisticated animal calls — and our own speech.

There are two conflicting theories of how language evolved in humans. The first is that human language evolved slowly and gradually, just as most traits evolved in the animal world. So perhaps it started with gestures, and then words and sentences. Or language may have started out more like bird song — with complex but meaningless sounds — and the last stage was attaching meaning to these sounds.

Reading the last paragraph in the passage quoted above brings to mind Nobel Laureate John Eccles’ derisive remarks about “promissory materialism.” The fact is that scientists haven’t got a clue how language evolved – and for a very good reason. The gap between the law-governed deterministic processes we observe in Nature and the infinite flexibility of human language is an unbridgeable one.

That is why no psychologist could ever, even in principle, predict everything that a rational adult human being will think, say and do. Language, which is fundamentally unpredictable, is part of the warp-and-woof of human life. Hence the antecedent in Mark Frank’s thought experiment – “What if a psychologist could predict every decision that you make?” – is impossible, by definition.

Back in 1957, behaviorist B. F. Skinner wrote a best-selling book with the amusing title, Verbal Behavior. I hope readers can see now why language is much more than mere behavior.

Thoughts?

Comments
Dion: Its like looking at a car accident. We all do it, Ive no idea why, but in this case, to answer your question, I yielded to the temptation to ask a simple question about free will: How do we make decisions ? I thought the reply may be interesting, but it turned out to be lots and lots of noise, but very little light. Apparantly our decisions are made by some vague, undefined spirit, in some undefined way. Maybe its the soul, maybe our consciousness, maybe its 'I'. If I get hungry and decide to eat, its my soul deciding I should have a sandwitch. Does this make sense to you ? I thought it was the function of my brain, but apparently not.Graham2
September 3, 2014
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#184 Graham2 So why do you keep coming back here? Can you explain what attracts you so much to engage in argument after argument in this blog? Is that your free will or your intuition? What else?Dionisio
September 3, 2014
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Mark Frank:
And if they are not caused, then they just happen. It seems like theists (and some others) evade this by invoking some kind of mystical mumbo jumbo. So in the case of the first cause – it doesn’t need to be caused because it is a “necessary being” whatever that is – rather than just accepting it just happened.
Why is this funny? Well, it's me here. Look first for the irony. People who believe in a necessary reason apparently do so for no good reason. Unlike Mark. He believes in things that "just happen" no reason, no cause, no need to be caused, it just happened, that's all, just accept it. Brute fact. And then accuses the others of "invoking some kind of mystical mumbo jumbo." Oh, the irony! Thank God we don't use Mark's method in science (or any other field of human endeavor). The gun, your honor, it just went off, all by itself!Mung
September 3, 2014
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A New and Improved Argument for a Necessary Being (PDF)Mung
September 3, 2014
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Are There Good Reasons to Believe in a Necessary Being? take the surveyMung
September 3, 2014
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Dion: irreconcilable worldview positions That's pretty much it. There is a huge flurry of words (KF Im looking at you!) but in the end the religious believe morals, decisions, mathematics (BA77!) all spring from the soul, the 'I', the 'mind', or some other spirit. Theres not much that can be done here.Graham2
September 3, 2014
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I'm waiting to hear how Graham2 decided he was hungry. And I wonder if Graham2 ever eats when he is not hungry.Mung
September 3, 2014
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Graham2:
Havent you ever thought about how decisions are made?
I'd have to decide to think about that, and I choose not to.Mung
September 3, 2014
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Graham I am merely pointing out that you are failing to respond to a valid observation about your position. It is not clear whether you are doing so because you do not understand it, or because you'd rather ignoring it for rhetorical purposes. In either case, you've still failed to respond to it. You can correct that situation by merely stating something to the effect that "Yes, in accord with my priors, I deny that anything can exist which cannot be reduced to matter, and therefore I not only remove the possibility of such a thing from the outset, but I also assume my position to be true".Upright BiPed
September 3, 2014
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Does my Skyrim character have free will? For those of you who have not played a video game since Pong or Space Invaders would be impressed with the "Open World" games of today. Skyrim is maybe 100 square miles of forests, mountains, rivers, coastlines, cities, towns, etc etc with politics, religions, laws etc etc. There are 1000s of people programmed to eat, sleep, get up each day and go to work etc. Incredible programming. And one character is of your design. You can wander around the whole place interacting at will with the people. With the animals and "creatures" too. Here is a link, if you click be warned that the player has a potty mouth as he wanders his character around the city of Whiterun. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMVaOWfJ_5c&feature=youtube_gdata_playerppolish
September 3, 2014
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Gpuccio, thank you for your comment. Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that in self-perception the "I" is indeed simultaneously observer and object. Would that constitute a violation of the law of non-contradiction?Box
September 3, 2014
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On most occasions, this kind of discussions between two opposite irreconcilable worldview positions are ended long before they start. :( Perhaps the visiting onlookers benefit from reading both arguments and arriving at their own conclusions, if they are open-minded.Dionisio
September 3, 2014
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gpc: I appreciate the effort you made to address the issue. Amongst all the words, it seems you have just pushed the problem back to an 'I'. VJT pushes it back to the soul. Either way its a determination to invoke a supernatural (non physical) entity, which just creates a new problem for you: to justify this invention. UBP: You are not contributing anything here.Graham2
September 3, 2014
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Box (#157): "Let me rephrase my question. When “I” make a free decision, self-moved (without external determination), does self-moved imply that “I” is simultaneously cause and effect? In the sense that there is a cause “I” that causes itself (by making a decision) to be an effect “decisive I”. Similarly, during self-perception, am I simultaneously observer and object? And my question is: if so, is there a problem with the law of non-contradiction?" My opinion. Self-perception is one thing. In it, we perceive and for that same reason we know we exist as perceivers. It is really difficult to separate the two intuitions, and it is probably wrong to try. Of course, we can reflect on the fact that we perceive. That is different, because we are creating mental representations about the experience of perceiving, and of being subjects. That could be called "self-awareness". But in simple awareness, in perceiving, there is implicit the intuition of the I. I don't see that as a problem of cause and effect. And there is, IMO, no violation of the law of non-contradiction. I don't see the same situation with free will. In free will, I would say that my I is the cause of the decision, and the decision the effect. Here, there is a cause and effect relationship. Let's say that some free alternative in the way that my consciousness interact with my outer interface is (at least in part) the cause of the observable decision. Graham2 would ask: what determines which alternative will take place. The only answer, in a free will scenario, is: our I. IOWs, a free choice cannot be analyzed as an outer phenomenon, which obeys the law of phenomenic cause and effect: phenomena are caused by similar phenomena. A free choice is an event of the transcendental I: it has other laws, and other connotations. One of them is its moral meaning: choices are never neutral to our personal destiny, as I have tried to argue.gpuccio
September 3, 2014
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Oops, I see I've crosws posted GP....Upright BiPed
September 3, 2014
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I wonder if Graham is even capable of conceptualizing the counter-argument that G Puccio has put forward against his position. I think not, but I could be mistaken. He would have to actually articulate it in its proper terms to convince any reasonable person otherwise. G Puccio's observation trumps Graham's argument - flat out. Also, GP offered his observation with the simple caveat that as long as Graham understands the position he puts himself into, then there is no further argument to be made --> in other words, he (Graham) has simply made a choice without providing an argument for it. However, I think Graham is far too much of a competitive partisan for that, he is certain to want to be seen as entirely justified in his claims. He will not want them to be reduced to being merely unsupported choices, worth no more than any other.Upright BiPed
September 3, 2014
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Graham2: You say: "If we make a choice between A & B,, and choose A, we need to have a reason to choose A, and not B." No. The essence of free will is that we can choose both A and B. Sour moral conscience will intuitively perceive A as "good" and B as "not good" in the deepest sense, for our deepest destiny. It is not a reasoning, just an intuition about what we are representing (A and B). You can say that it comes from the soul, if you like. Again, it is not a reasoning, just an intuition. So you can say: why should we choose B? There are many reasons. B is apparently more likable, or appeals more to our razionalization, or gratifies more our personal self-esteem. And so on. Or there is some compulsive force in our mind which is strongly in favor of B, whatever the cost. IOWs, in many cases, the non free influences that act on us would favor the choice which our intuition tells us to be "not good". But we are free to choose. Let's say that we have some inner strength that can overcome those influences, if we choose to side with our deeper intuition. That we do that or not is exactly what is under our control. The choice cannot be explained in terms of reasoning, because it is not a reasoning (although it certainly can take into good account the good reasonings of the mind). It is more similar to siding for what we deeply love when all the rest tempts us otherwise. It is an inner loyalty, which we are free to embrace or to disavow. It is choosing to choose or choosing not to choose, and letting other things choose for us. You say: "Something in the universe has caused us to choose A. What is it? Just giving it a label ‘free will’ doesn’t help." It is not "something in the universe". It is us. Our I, our independent center of consciousness. It is not a label. It is a view of life.gpuccio
September 3, 2014
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I eat because Im hungry.
Feel free to edit and disagree ... Q. Why are you hungry? A. Because hunger is a physical reaction to lack of food. Q Why do we have that physical reaction? A Evolution caused it Q Why? A So we would survive Q What happened to organisms before the evolution of hunger? A They didn't need hunger because ... [make up something here] Q Why did evolution want us to survive? A Because we would die otherwise. Q What is wrong with dying? A Evolution made us afraid of it Q Why? A Because evolution wants us to survive Q Why? A Because survival is good and dying is bad Q What is wrong with dying?Silver Asiatic
September 3, 2014
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SA: What caused us to create the reason for the choice I think you are starting to see the problem. Where we differ is that you retreat to some mystical 'non physical entity' and park the problem there. The truth seems to be pretty obvious and simple: I eat because Im hungry. See ? no infinite regression required. Why do you think you eat ? VJT thinks the decision comes from the soul. You are now going to instantly retreat to a discussion of moral issues. Groan.Graham2
September 3, 2014
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Something in the universe has caused us to choose A. What is it ?
If you're saying that everything in the universe is a physical/material entity, then what caused the choice is some physical thing or law. Why is that necessarily the case? You experience your own self, but you can't give any physical characteristics of what your "self" is. You can weigh options and judge and select freely -- but what is this this "mechanism" of choosing that we call "self"? Why does it necessarily have to be a physical thing? Why can't you describe the physical dimensions of your own decision-making mechanism? We choose things for a reason. We could say "the reasons caused us to choose". But we can create the reasons. "Since today is Tuesday, I will drink beer." The fact that it is Tuesday did not cause us to drink. What you get is in infinite regress (Why do you drink on Tuesday? Because it comes before Wednesday. Why is that a factor? Because Wednesdays I drink wine. Why is that? I can make up reasons ad infinitum ...) Why can't we simply find the origin of all these decisions in a reason? Again, it's the self that can generate an infinite number of reasons. This is evidence that the decision does not come from programming but from a non-physical entity. What caused us to create the reason for the choice? It's the self or soul that creates or finds reasons. The person can freely select among options with the awareness that it is not being caused or determined or forced, necessarily, to choose one or the other.Silver Asiatic
September 3, 2014
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KF: And, if the determinism were so, I could not be a reasonable, warranting, knowing being. I could not make responsible choices.
You are absolutely right. These sentences should be put up on signs everywhere. They should be learned and rehearsed, just as long as everyone understands them.Box
September 3, 2014
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VJT #137: You waffled, but didn't answer the question. You creationists bang on and on and on about free will. You trot it out as the answer to theodicy (or something). Surely you have thought about the problem ? Havent you ever thought about how decisions are made ?Graham2
September 3, 2014
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Box, Generally speaking, I'm not well versed in these philosophical topics like mind and consciousness. They kind of get too high above my limited capacity to understand things. I enjoy more dealing with simpler things I can look at and analyze as if they were electronic circuits or software programs. That's why I'm so fascinated by the informational processes that occur during the first few weeks of human development at cellular and molecular levels. These are things you can follow, observe, analyze, as long as the required data is available. For example, the mechanisms associated with the cell fate determination, asymmetric cell division, centrosomes segregation timing, mitotic spindle checkpoints, kinetochores / microtubules tension, etc. There's plenty of material in this area to spend a long time studying very intensively. No much time left for philosophical chatting. But every once in a while I can jump in and take a look at the ongoing discussions and maybe sometimes comment on what I read. Now you know the rest of the story, as Paul Harvey would have said. :)Dionisio
September 3, 2014
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KF 160
But the real issue is that a necessary being — as it is not dependent on enabling causes — will be without beginning or end.
The origin of dependency cannot be dependency. It has to be something non-dependent.Silver Asiatic
September 3, 2014
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The '3rd way' is free will. That doesn't help. If we make a choice between A & B,, and choose A, we need to have a reason to choose A, and not B. If the reason was different, we would choose B. Something in the universe has caused us to choose A. What is it ? Just giving it a label 'free will' doesn't help. I can call it a telephone, it still doesn't answer the question. You haven't taken the problem a single inch forward.Graham2
September 3, 2014
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Dionisio #163, Indeed you got it right, I was talking "change" not "coming into existence". I used the term self-causation as a general term for all inner relations that an agency may have. Such a relation at the very least causes the agency to change. For instance, self-perception can change a person; can make a person realize what a great guy he is after all. But it may very well be the case that self-perception is fundamental to consciousness. So, maybe there is even room for, with respect to consciousness, discussing self-causation in the strong sense, that is, as an explanation for coming into existence.Box
September 3, 2014
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#158 Box, I understand "self-causation" is associated with the process of "causing itself". I understand "self-organization" is associated with the process of "organizing itself". But in this case, the 'self' must already exist (although kind of disorganized), hence it must have been "caused" earlier by something else, not itself. That's why I could not understand the analogy between the two terms. Did I get this right?Dionisio
September 3, 2014
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PS: That which has a beginning, of course is a possible and contingent being, thus is caused. It has long since been shown that nothing -- non-being -- has no causal powers, and that the quantum mechanics usually trotted out to assert a-causal being is nothing like that (especially once one understands the role of necessary, enabling causal factors). No RA nucleus and no possibility of nuclear decay, etc etc across ever so many quantum effects. That we may know only sufficient conditions for a distribution of possibilities so that an event is possible, does not mean it comes out of nowhere, & nothing, for no good reason.kairosfocus
September 3, 2014
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Box, Ok, thank you. :)Dionisio
September 3, 2014
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MF: Necessity of being is a serious issue on modes of being. This is not the place to go into a long elaboration on the self evident nature of first principles of right reason, and the status of a weak form principle of sufficient reason, but we may simply notice that on inquiring of a given A, why it is (or why it is not), we can see that there are impossible and possible beings, and that there are contingent and non-contingent possible beings. The former depend on an external enabling factor, and the latter have no such dependence. Consequently they must exist in any possible world. For instance, start with the number 2 and the relationship summarised as 2 + 3 = 5. There is no possible world in which they do not hold, and they are necessary beings. But the real issue is that a necessary being -- as it is not dependent on enabling causes -- will be without beginning or end. Which is of course reflective of a key traditional characteristic of God: the Eternal. So the tone above, in all likelihood, reflects an underlying hostility to God . . . which may well be shaping perceptions. As for the notion of an infinite successive causal regress of beings, the problem is not only that there is no empirical foundation for this whatsoever, but that there is a serious problem: one cannot traverse an infinite succession of discrete, finite steps for the very same reason why one cannot count up to infinity. In rather crudely simple terms, infinity, infinity less one, infinity less two, infinity less three . . . etc simply will not get us anywhere. I suggest you re-think. KFkairosfocus
September 3, 2014
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