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Mark Frank poses an interesting thought experiment on free will

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In a comment on kairosfocus’ latest excellent post, Does ID ASSUME “contra-causal free will” and “intelligence” (and so injects questionable “assumptions”)?, Mark Frank proposes a thought experiment in support of his view that determinism is fully compatible with free will. It goes as follows:

Start with a dog. Dogs make choices in the sense that they may accept or reject a treat, may obey or disobey an order, may chase a rabbit or not. Suppose we advance our understanding of dogs’ brains and thought processes so that a genius vet can predict with 100% accuracy how a dog will choose in any given situation given its past history and current circumstances. Surely this is conceivable? If we manage this do we now say that dogs are making real choices? If it they are real choices then this is compatibilism in action. So I guess, in these circumstances, you would say that we have shown they do not really have free will.

Now extend it to infants – say two year olds. They make choices – eat or don’t eat, cry or don’t cry, hug or don’t hug. So let’s imagine we repeat the process with them. A genius paediatrician in this case (maybe you one day!). Are the infants also lacking free will? Either compatabilism is true or they haven’t got free will.

OK. Now apply it to an adult human. If it is conceivable for a dog and an infant then surely it is conceivable for an adult. A genius psychologist observes an adult and is able to predict all their decisions and explain why – exactly how each decision is determined by their genetics, personal history and current environment (it doesn’t have to be a materialist explanation). Has that adult got free will? Either compatabilism is true or they haven’t got free will.

And finally apply to yourself. Suppose it turns out a genius psychologist has been monitoring you all your life and has been able to correctly predict all your decisions and also how the decision making process worked in detail – how your different motivations were balanced and interacted with your perceptions and memories resulting in each decision (including any dithering and worrying about whether you got it right). Would that mean you thought you had free will but actually didn’t? Either compatabilism is true or you haven’t got free will.

As my computer is currently kaput, this will be a very short post. I’d like to suggest that what Mark Frank has left out of the equation is language, the capacity for which is what differentiates us from other animals. (Human infants possess this capacity but do not yet exercise it, partly because their brains, when they are newborn, are still too immature for language production, and also because they have yet to build up a linguistic databank that would enable them to express what they want to get across.)

Language is central to human rationality because rationality is not just a matter of selecting the appropriate means to realize a desired end: it is also a critical activity, in which agents are expected to be able to justify their choices and respond to questions like “Why did you do that?” People don’t just act rationally; they give reasons for their actions. In order to do that, you need a language in which you can generate an indefinitely large number of sentences, as the range of possible situations in which you might find yourself is potentially infinite – particularly when we factor in the little complicating circumstances that may arise.

What is distinctive about human language, as opposed to animal “language,” is precisely this ability to generate an infinite number of sentences. This uniquely human ability was the subject of a recent article in the Washington Post titled, Chirps, whistles, clicks: Do any animals have a true ‘language’?, which was discussed in a recent post by News (emphases are mine – VJT):

A new study on animal calls has found that the patterns of barks, whistles, and clicks from seven different species appear to be more complex than previously thought. The researchers used mathematical tests to see how well the sequences of sounds fit to models ranging in complexity…

“We’re still a very, very long way from understanding this transition from animal communication to human language, and it’s a huge mystery at the moment,” said study author and zoologist Arik Kershenbaum, who did the work at the National Institute for Mathematical and Biological Synthesis…

“What makes human language special is that there’s no finite limit as to what comes next,” he said….

But what separates language from communication? Why can’t we assume that whales, with their elaborate songs, are simply speaking “whale-ese”?

To be considered a true language, there are a few elements that are usually considered to be essential, says Kershenbaum. For one, it must be learned rather than instinctive — both whales and birds have this piece covered. For instance, killer whale calves learn a repertoire of calls from their mothers, and the sounds gradually evolve from erratic screams to adult-like pulsed calls and whistles.

What holds whales and other animals back from language is that there is a limit to what they can express. There are only so many calls that each may convey different emotions, but only we have an unlimited ability to express abstract ideas.

The problem for scientists is that no one knows how language evolved. Oddly enough, there don’t seem to be any transitional proto-languages between whale and bird songs — said to be the most sophisticated animal calls — and our own speech.

There are two conflicting theories of how language evolved in humans. The first is that human language evolved slowly and gradually, just as most traits evolved in the animal world. So perhaps it started with gestures, and then words and sentences. Or language may have started out more like bird song — with complex but meaningless sounds — and the last stage was attaching meaning to these sounds.

Reading the last paragraph in the passage quoted above brings to mind Nobel Laureate John Eccles’ derisive remarks about “promissory materialism.” The fact is that scientists haven’t got a clue how language evolved – and for a very good reason. The gap between the law-governed deterministic processes we observe in Nature and the infinite flexibility of human language is an unbridgeable one.

That is why no psychologist could ever, even in principle, predict everything that a rational adult human being will think, say and do. Language, which is fundamentally unpredictable, is part of the warp-and-woof of human life. Hence the antecedent in Mark Frank’s thought experiment – “What if a psychologist could predict every decision that you make?” – is impossible, by definition.

Back in 1957, behaviorist B. F. Skinner wrote a best-selling book with the amusing title, Verbal Behavior. I hope readers can see now why language is much more than mere behavior.

Thoughts?

Comments
VJ I have to respond when my name is in the OP.  (In my response below I use determined to include random to save writing  determined or random each time) I fully accept that human language is quite different from any animal language and this gives a different quality to many of our decisions including the ability to articulate our reasons for our choices. I don’t mind if you want to call this quality free will. However if language a necessary condition for free will then: * Anyone who hasn’t got the power to use language has not got free will for example feral children who grow up unable to acquire language – do you really accept that? * Learning language is something that happens gradually. This implies that free will is not a binary thing but something you have more of as you get more skilled with language. * It doesn’t follow that our choices are not determined. As I understand it you feel this follows from the  fact we can generate infinitely many sentences and for some reason you conclude this makes it impossible for the psychologist to predict what we will do.  This simply doesn’t follow. A dog can in theory make infinitely many different responses to an offer of a walk. That doesn’t mean it is not possible to predict which one it will take. Mark Frank
August 31, 2014
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Of note: since our free will choices figure so prominently in how reality is actually found to be constructed in our understanding of quantum mechanics, I think a Christian perspective on just how important our choices are in this temporal life, in regards to our eternal destiny, is very fitting:
Is God Good? (Free will and the problem of evil) - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rfd_1UAjeIA “There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, in the end, "Thy will be done." All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell." - C.S. Lewis, The Great Divorce
An atheist may think we have no evidence of hell (or heaven) , but actually we now have two very different ‘eternities’ revealed by physics, just as is presupposed in Theism:
Special Relativity, General Relativity, Heaven and Hell: https://uncommondescent.com/cosmology/the-no-black-holes-uproar-a-week-later/#comment-489771
Verse and Music:
Deuteronomy 30:19 This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live,, Fix My Eyes - For King And Country https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yd2we03Sy4I
Supplemental note:
Blind From Birth - Near Death Experience - Vicki Noratuk radio interview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azIh8gsXVRg
bornagain77
August 31, 2014
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The following experiment with dogs throws a monkey wrench into Mr. Frank's proposed experiment to prove that neither dogs nor humans have a mind capable of free will.
Jaytee: A dog who knew when his owner was coming home - video https://vimeo.com/81150973 Book: Dogs That Know When Their Owners Are Coming Home: - Sheldrake - book http://www.amazon.com/Dogs-That-Their-Owners-Coming/dp/0307885968
At the 17:38 minute mark of the following video, several experiments that show that some animals have a transcendent component to their being that is able to sense what the owner's intentions are are gone over.
The Mind Is Not The Brain - Scientific Evidence - Rupert Sheldrake - (Referenced Notes) - video http://vimeo.com/33479544
What is interesting in the preceding video is that, at the 25:00 minute mark of the video, Sheldrake speaks of a well known skeptic that he invited to replicate his experiment for dogs. The results of the skeptic revealed the same pattern of ‘extended mind’ that Sheldrake had consistently witnessed for dogs, but the well known skeptic dogmatically refused to accept the possibility that mind had anything to do with the 'exteneded mind' results that he himself had witnessed. As to the relationship of free will and information:
Algorithmic Information Theory, Free Will and the Turing Test - Douglas S. Robertson Excerpt: For example, the famous “Turing test” for artificial intelligence could be defeated by simply asking for a new axiom in mathematics. Human mathematicians are able to create axioms, but a computer program cannot do this without violating information conservation. Creating new axioms and free will are shown to be different aspects of the same phenomena: the creation of new information. http://cires.colorado.edu/~doug/philosophy/info8.pdf
Also of interest to information, free will, and animals
Genesis 2:19 Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name.
As to experimental evidence for free will,,,
Quantum physics mimics spooky action into the past - April 23, 2012 Excerpt: The authors experimentally realized a "Gedankenexperiment" called "delayed-choice entanglement swapping", formulated by Asher Peres in the year 2000. Two pairs of entangled photons are produced, and one photon from each pair is sent to a party called Victor. Of the two remaining photons, one photon is sent to the party Alice and one is sent to the party Bob. Victor can now choose between two kinds of measurements. If he decides to measure his two photons in a way such that they are forced to be in an entangled state, then also Alice's and Bob's photon pair becomes entangled. If Victor chooses to measure his particles individually, Alice's and Bob's photon pair ends up in a separable state. Modern quantum optics technology allowed the team to delay Victor's choice and measurement with respect to the measurements which Alice and Bob perform on their photons. "We found that whether Alice's and Bob's photons are entangled and show quantum correlations or are separable and show classical correlations can be decided after they have been measured", explains Xiao-song Ma, lead author of the study. According to the famous words of Albert Einstein, the effects of quantum entanglement appear as "spooky action at a distance". The recent experiment has gone one remarkable step further. "Within a naïve classical world view, quantum mechanics can even mimic an influence of future actions on past events", says Anton Zeilinger. http://phys.org/news/2012-04-quantum-physics-mimics-spooky-action.html What Does Quantum Physics Have to Do with Free Will? - By Antoine Suarez - July 22, 2013 Excerpt: What is more, recent experiments are bringing to light that the experimenter’s free will and consciousness should be considered axioms (founding principles) of standard quantum physics theory. So for instance, in experiments involving “entanglement” (the phenomenon Einstein called “spooky action at a distance”), to conclude that quantum correlations of two particles are nonlocal (i.e. cannot be explained by signals traveling at velocity less than or equal to the speed of light), it is crucial to assume that the experimenter can make free choices, and is not constrained in what orientation he/she sets the measuring devices. To understand these implications it is crucial to be aware that quantum physics is not only a description of the material and visible world around us, but also speaks about non-material influences coming from outside the space-time.,,, https://www.bigquestionsonline.com/content/what-does-quantum-physics-have-do-free-will How Free Will Works (In Quantum Mechanics) - video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMp30Q8OGOE
In other words, if my conscious choices really are just merely the result of whatever state the material particles in my brain happen to be in in the past (deterministic) how in blue blazes are my choices instantaneously effecting the state of material particles into the past?,,, These experiments from quantum mechanics are simply impossible on a reductive materialism (determinism) view of reality!bornagain77
August 31, 2014
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Free will?
The plans of the heart belong to man, but the answer of the tongue is from the Lord. All the ways of a man are pure in his own eyes, but the Lord weighs the spirit. The heart of man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps. [Proverbs 16:1,2,9 (ESV)]
Reformation Study Bible by Ligonier Ministries
16:1 The sages occasionally remind us that human responsibility to reason and act does not contradict God’s sovereignty (vv. 2, 9). answer . . . from the Lord. The phrase means either that God enables us to give that apt answer and carry through plans, or that God’s answer (His word of decision) is the real power that shapes events (19:21; cf. Phil. 2:12, 13). 16:2 spirit. People are able to rationalize almost any kind of behavior as they strive to justify themselves (12:15; 30:12). God’s knowledge is a warning against such self-deception (Heb. 4:12; cf. 1 Cor. 4:3–5).
Dionisio
August 31, 2014
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Hi Jaceli123, Very good questions. In brief: 1. We can choose to do something, but we don't choose to choose something. That doesn't mean, however, that the choice was determined. If the choice was made for a reason and if our rational deliberations are not governed by physical laws, then it still makes sense to describe them as free. 2. We can't break the laws of physics and chemistry, but neither are we governed by them. They constrain but do not control our behavior (like the rules of chess, which limit the moves each player can make without determining which move he or she will make next). 3. Choices have prior causes, but they are non-determining causes. If someone hits me, there are a variety of ways in which I might respond: hit back, ask my assailant why he struck me, call the police, run away, or laugh it off. My choice, whatever it is, will be because of (caused by) what happened to me, but the decision as to how to respond is in no way determined by the situation. 4. In brain-damaged individuals, the ability to think rationally in certain situations may be impaired, as other, more primitive behavior patterns (e.g. reflexes, conditioning, etc.) take over, and over-ride the use of reason. To some extent, we're all liable to this: everyone does silly things when they get drunk. Happily, most of us are free, most of the time.vjtorley
August 31, 2014
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Discussions of human free will seem to always include an implicit and unprovable assumption that everything people do is a result of some cause or causes, rather than being a choice by an agent who has the freedom to make it or not. So it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that operating under that assumption inevitably leads to a conclusion that humans do not have free will. The alternative to that assumption is that human beings are created in the image of God, who delegated to us a small portion of his ability to function as the uncaused cause behind all of his creation.RalphDavidWestfall
August 31, 2014
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I am not sure that we should "start with a dog". Why not start with a computer program? Then, we might discuss what types of freedoms to obey commands it has. Wouldn't most agree that a fully "known" code would make outputs that were without "free will"? I think so. No ghost in that machine. But it is not our knowledge of the code that abrogates the free will of the code. But dogs? I am not sure there is a ghost there either. Mark Frank writes,
"Dogs make choices in the sense that they may accept or reject a treat".
However, how well we know the dog's brain may have less to do with free will than what the dog's brain defines as a "treat". Rather than bestow free will on the dog in any sense, we might just as easily say that the dog's programming weighed in and, whether it be fatigue from chasing so many rabbits, or a sore belly from eating too many rabbits. The offered "treat" is not so much "ignored" or "rejected" as it is not defined as "treat" until the paws-belly-calculus is right again. Again, it would not be our knowledge of the dog's brain that would decide free will. In other words, it may be true that dogs do not "accept" or "reject" or "obey" or "disobey" At this point one might then say, well, doesn't this suggest that humans lack free will too? Along with language (which in its most mature form, I read as both a cause and marker of free will), is there a ghost in the machine? The examples (not proofs, just examples) are legion, but I will mention only three that are particular to the human race: 1. Special Revelation. 2. The teleological suspension of the ethical. 3. Any good joke that starts with "_____ walks into a bar. . . " I direct your attention to "A Few Good Men". If Colonel Jessup's orders were always followed, and he ordered that Santiago not be touched, then why was Santiago in danger? Furthermore, why do we all (I hope all) feel that the blind following of orders is somehow de-humanizing?
Downey: What did we do wrong? We did nothing wrong! Dawson: Yeah we did. We were supposed to fight for people who couldn't fight for themselves. We were supposed to fight for Willy.
. . . and that the preceding lines form the capstone to the redemptive aspects of the story. Ok, this was not meant to be an airtight syllogism for the case for free will, just some thoughts on where the wind blows.Tim
August 31, 2014
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Jaceli123: In brief: 1. It would be an infinite regress if we did not exist as a transcendental subject, the conscious "I" which unites all our representations, which cannot and needs not be explained in terms of cause and effect like the phenomena it witnesses. 2. What we need is to change, to live a life that has a meaning and a purpose. If we don't exercise well our free will, that will not happen.And we "are2 not the laws of physics or chemistry: we (as a perceiving "I") just interact with them. 3. The laws of consciousness are different from the laws of non conscious phenomena. The existence of conscious perceivers can maybe explained in terms of "causes", but not in the same was as phenomenic realities. That's why I call the "I" transcendental. 4. We are not. We are heavily "influenced" by those events, exactly as we can be heavily "influenced" by a car which accidentally hits us, or by winning a lottery, and so on. In no way does free will mean that we are absolutely free, non influenced by anything, or that we can do all that we like. Least of all it means that we can control everything, at most that we can control at least a little how we react to things. Free will just means that, in each specific situation, we can still choose between different alternatives, with different values for our personal destiny.gpuccio
August 30, 2014
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I am skeptical about free will because of many reasons. 1. How can we choose what we chose choose or thoughts? It seems to create a infinite regress. 2. What do we need to be free from, the laws of physics or working chemistry but these seem to be fit we cant break them but we are them? 3.How can choices arise without previous causes? Just ask yourelf how can we account us being free when choices have to have prior causes. , 4.How are we free from brain injury like tumors or collisions? These seem to make us do things we can't control or do.Jaceli123
August 30, 2014
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