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Nobel Prize Winner Promotes ID, Circa 1960

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In 1960 Nobel prize winning physicist Eugene Wigner published a brief article entitled “The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Mathematics in the Natural Sciences.” See it here. In this article Wigner describes as “miraculous” (1) that “laws” of nature exist; and (2) that we should be able to discover those laws.

vjtorley has taken the time to give us a nice summary of and commentary on the article:

BEGIN QUOTATIONS FROM ARTICLE:

…The first point is that the enormous usefulness of mathematics in the natural sciences is something bordering on the mysterious and that there is no rational explanation for it. Second, it is just this uncanny usefulness of mathematical concepts that raises the question of the uniqueness of our physical theories….

The depth of thought which goes into the formulation of the mathematical concepts is later justified by the skill with which these concepts are used. The great mathematician fully, almost ruthlessly, exploits the domain of permissible reasoning and skirts the impermissible. That his recklessness does not lead him into a morass of contradictions is a miracle in itself: certainly it is hard to believe that our reasoning power was brought, by Darwin’s process of natural selection, to the perfection which it seems to possess. However, this is not our present subject….

The physicist is interested in discovering the laws of inanimate nature. In order to understand this statement, it is necessary to analyze the concept, “law of nature.”

The world around us is of baffling complexity and the most obvious fact about it is that we cannot predict the future. Although the joke attributes only to the optimist the view that the future is uncertain, the optimist is right in this case: the future is unpredictable. It is, as Schrodinger has remarked, a miracle that in spite of the baffling complexity of the world, certain regularities in the events could be discovered. One such regularity, discovered by Galileo, is that two rocks, dropped at the same time from the same height, reach the ground at the same time. The laws of nature are concerned with such regularities. Galileo’s regularity is a prototype of a large class of regularities. It is a surprising regularity for three reasons.

The first reason that it is surprising is that it is true not only in Pisa, and in Galileo’s time, it is true everywhere on the Earth, was always true, and will always be true. This property of the regularity is a recognized invariance property and, as I had occasion to point out some time ago, without invariance principles similar to those implied in the preceding generalization of Galileo’s observation, physics would not be possible. The second surprising feature is that the regularity which we are discussing is independent of so many conditions which could have an effect on it. It is valid no matter whether it rains or not, whether the experiment is carried out in a room or from the Leaning Tower, no matter whether the person who drops the rocks is a man or a woman…

The preceding two points, though highly significant from the point of view of the philosopher, are not the ones which surprised Galileo most, nor do they contain a specific law of nature. The law of nature is contained in the statement that the length of time which it takes for a heavy object to fall from a given height is independent of the size, material, and shape of the body which drops…

The preceding discussion is intended to remind us, first, that it is not at all natural that “laws of nature” exist, much less that man is able to discover them. [Note 6: E. Schrodinger, in his What Is Life? (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1945), p. 31, says that this second miracle may well be beyond human understanding.] …

[T]he use of complex numbers is in this case [to describe the Hilbert space in quantum mechanics – VJT] not a calculational trick of applied mathematics but comes close to being a necessity in the formulation of the laws of quantum mechanics. Finally, it now begins to appear that not only complex numbers but so-called analytic functions are destined to play a decisive role in the formulation of quantum theory. I am referring to the rapidly developing theory of dispersion relations.

It is difficult to avoid the impression that a miracle confronts us here, quite comparable in its striking nature to the miracle that the human mind can string a thousand arguments together without getting itself into contradictions, or to the two miracles of the existence of laws of nature and of the human mind’s capacity to divine them. The observation which comes closest to an explanation for the mathematical concepts’ cropping up in physics which I know is Einstein’s statement that the only physical theories which we are willing to accept are the beautiful ones. It stands to argue that the concepts of mathematics, which invite the exercise of so much wit, have the quality of beauty. However, Einstein’s observation can at best explain properties of theories which we are willing to believe and has no reference to the intrinsic accuracy of the theory

[I]t is possible that the theories, which we consider to be “proved” by a number of numerical agreements which appears to be large enough for us, are false because they are in conflict with a possible more encompassing theory which is beyond our means of discovery. If this were true, we would have to expect conflicts between our theories as soon as their number grows beyond a certain point and as soon as they cover a sufficiently large number of groups of phenomena. In contrast to the article of faith of the theoretical physicist mentioned before, this is the nightmare of the theorist.

It is even possible that some of the laws of nature will be in conflict with each other in their implications, but each convincing enough in its own domain so that we may not be willing to abandon any of them. We may resign ourselves to such a state of affairs or our interest in clearing up the conflict between the various theories may fade out. We may lose interest in the “ultimate truth,” that is, in a picture which is a consistent fusion into a single unit of the little pictures, formed on the various aspects of nature….

We now have, in physics, two theories of great power and interest: the theory of quantum phenomena and the theory of relativity. These two theories have their roots in mutually exclusive groups of phenomena… So far, the two theories could not be united, that is, no mathematical formulation exists to which both of these theories are approximations.

A much more difficult and confusing situation would arise if we could, some day, establish a theory of the phenomena of consciousness, or of biology, which would be as coherent and convincing as our present theories of the inanimate world. Mendel’s laws of inheritance and the subsequent work on genes may well form the beginning of such a theory as far as biology is concerned. Furthermore, it is quite possible that an abstract argument can be found which shows that there is a conflict between such a theory and the accepted principles of physics. The argument could be of such abstract nature that it might not be possible to resolve the conflict, in favor of one or of the other theory, by an experiment. Such a situation would put a heavy strain on our faith in our theories and on our belief in the reality of the concepts which we form. It would give us a deep sense of frustration in our search for what I called “the ultimate truth.” The reason that such a situation is conceivable is that, fundamentally, we do not know why our theories work so well. Hence, their accuracy may not prove their truth and consistency. Indeed, it is this writer’s belief that something rather akin to the situation which was described above exists if the present laws of heredity and of physics are confronted.

END QUOTATIONS FROM ARTICLE

Two things should be apparent from the foregoing quotes. First, the atheist’s faith in the enduring constancy of nature is pure superstition. Nature is not to be trusted; there is no reason to think that it will behave tomorrow as it did today. You can’t trust something mindless to keep behaving itself. You can only trust a Person to do something like that.

Second, the inadequacy of the Darwinian account of the origin of human intelligence should now be apparent. Our survival as a species does not require us to be able to discover laws of nature. Nor is it clear that human beings could only have emerged in a universe with mathematically interesting and science-friendly properties (such as universal laws that happen to be simple enough for us to comprehend). The only hypothesis that accounts for these things in a non-arbitrary fashion is the hypothesis that the universe was designed to be understood by its intelligent inhabitants.

Should this hypothesis be correct, then we would predict that the Designer would not want us to tie ourselves up in a mass of seeming contradictions – such as the apparent conflict between quantum mechanics and relativity. This the intelligent design hypothesis would predict that the current theoretical tensions in the fields of physics and cosmology will be successfully resolved, and that the best theories in each domain of science can all be fused into a single ultimate truth.

These are trying times for scientists, as this article shows (see especially articles 4, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12). Faint-hearted souls might be tempted to toss in the towel and admit defeat: “We’ll never understand it all.” Belief in God, far from being a science-stopper, is the only belief that can counter this defeatist frame of mind, and encourage scientists to keep doing more research. For God alone can guarantee that the universe is ultimately rational.

Comments
I once suggested that computer simulations that purport to simulate biological evolution should not artificially isolate the means of reproduction from the effects of random errors….
In a GA the mutation operator is a crude model of the effects of errors during reproduction.BillB
September 6, 2009
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C_G_K: The underlying OS and hardware should be irrelevant to how any algorithm proceeds - you could ditch the computer and implement the GA with an abacus, pencil and paper, and it should still work the same as if it were implemented in c++ on a MacBook (it would just be slower by hand!)BillB
September 6, 2009
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GilDodgen:
lbf sec.^2 / ft.^4 How interesting! The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space.
That certainly would be interesting if it were true. But ft^4 in the equation doesn't lead to the concept four spatial dimensions any more than sec^2 leads to two temporal dimensions. Multiple factors of the same unit do not necessarily imply mutual orthogonality. Take any physical property that varies spatially -- say, temperature. We can talk about how temperature changes over distance in units °F/ft, or how that change changes in units °F/ft^2, etc. on up to °F/ft^zillion, but those units have nothing to do with multiple spatial dimensions.R0b
September 5, 2009
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Mr. Dodgen, I once suggested that computer simulations that purport to simulate biological evolution should not artificially isolate the means of reproduction from the effects of random errors.... Does that require subjecting the hardware to the forces being tested? If so, what distinguishes evolutionary algorithms from any other simulation being run in software? I apologize if the answer seems obvious to you; I know very little about computer science. You seem adamant that you're being misrepresented, but I don't understand how.Learned Hand
September 5, 2009
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DeLurker, "The ability to understand reality is an advantage that will be selected for. Failure to understand reality will result in failure to reproduce. Not a great mystery." Darwinists make it sound so simple. It is quite confounding that anyone could think complex consciousness development can be accounted for by Darwinian processes (as the above just-so explanation suggests). You guys keep asking us "where's the ID mechanism?," "who designed the designer?" "how can you falsify ID?" then you give us such pithy little explanations for a phenomenon who's existence belies and goes far beyond any simplistic and naturalistic assumption.CannuckianYankee
September 5, 2009
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StephenB#13
We have rational minds, we live in a rational universe, and there is a correspondence between the two.
Why would you expect evolution to result in a lack of correspondence between reality and our understanding of it? The ability to understand reality is an advantage that will be selected for. Failure to understand reality will result in failure to reproduce. Not a great mystery.DeLurker
September 5, 2009
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We have rational minds, we live in a rational universe, and there is a correspondence between the two. That the language of those two realms should match, is, indeed, a miracle, and needs to be accounted for. Every Darwinist I have ever interacted with displays ignorance about that correspondence, and, when apprised of it, discounts its significance, pretending not to know what it might indicate. Would it be too much, then, if I ask Darwinists to address that topic and refrain from derailing the thread with mindless and irrelevant forays into other matters?StephenB
September 5, 2009
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I have long maintained that these sorts of occasions are perfect opportunities to formalize the mathematical method of design detection. Why can we not bar the trolls from here? I mostly lurk but I'd like to discuss something without the thread getting hijacked into these directions that don't bear any fruit. That is a key reason that we are Alone in this war. We have to Reprioritize our commitments towards Depending on common decency.nicholas.steno
September 5, 2009
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GilDodgen#10 You failed to answer my question. Either all participants should be required to identify themselves or none should. The fact that Blue Lotus disagrees with you is not justification for applying a double standard.DeLurker
September 5, 2009
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This Blue Lotus clown is a troll. I recognize him. Trolls should be required to identify themselves. It is a simple design inference. I once suggested that computer simulations that purport to simulate biological evolution should not artificially isolate the means of reproduction from the effects of random errors, and every time this troll logs on with another name he talks about stuff like throwing computers out of airplanes to simulate airdrop guidance software, which he knows is one of my areas of software engineering expertise. His MO is easily recognizable, and he reappears under different names. He is a cowardly scumbag.GilDodgen
September 5, 2009
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"If it applies to simluations of evolution then it applies to all simulations, logically. And there was quite alot of comment at the time at “the other place”. I take it you don’t throw your computers running the FEA simulations out the back of planes then?" I am just a lowly graduate student studying computer science, but even I can answer this one.
The underlying machinery (OS, programs, hardware and so on) are an important part of genetic algorithms and therefore become part of the simulation. There is a high degree of intelligence in the underlying "machinery" that often gets overlooked when people compare computer based genetic algorithms and Darwinian evolution. It seems obvious to me that this is the point being made here.C_G_K
September 5, 2009
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GilDodgen#7
Give us your real name, as I have done.
Will you hold your fellow ID proponents (Jerry, Joseph, Clive Hayden, tragic mishap, IRQ Conflict, Borne, and niwrad, off the top of my head) to the same standard? Personally, I find that ideas and arguments stand or fall on their own.DeLurker
September 5, 2009
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Lotus, With all due lack of respect, you are a clown, hiding behind your anonymity. Click on my name or Google it, and you can find out all about me. You must do the same in order for this conversation to continue. Give your real name so I have as much information about you as you do about me, or do us both a favor and crawl back into the hole from which you emerged. Give us your real name, as I have done. Otherwise, please do us the favor of blessing us with your absence.GilDodgen
September 5, 2009
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Gil
primarily for the development and simulation of nuclear weapons.
What about Weasel then? Do you think it explictly latched or not in Dawkins' original description? Not quite a nuclear weapon but causing as much debate!Blue Lotus
September 5, 2009
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Gil
I have no idea what you are talking about.
Sorry, I should have provided some context. You previously said:
All computational evolutionary algorithms artificially isolate the effects of random mutation on the underlying machinery: the CPU instruction set, operating system, and algorithmic processes responsible for the replication process. If the blind-watchmaker thesis is correct for biological evolution, all of these artificial constraints must be eliminated. Every aspect of the simulation, both hardware and software, must be subject to random errors. Of course, this would result in immediate disaster and the extinction of the CPU, OS, simulation program, and the programmer, who would never get funding for further realistic simulation experiments.
https://uncommondescent.com/archives/1660 And I read some reactions to that on various blogs. Some wag even suggested that the computers running volcano simulations won't last long if you get your way! http://www.ooblick.com/weblog/2006/10/03/gil-dodgen-uncommonly-dense/ If it applies to simluations of evolution then it applies to all simulations, logically. And there was quite alot of comment at the time at "the other place". I take it you don't throw your computers running the FEA simulations out the back of planes then?Blue Lotus
September 5, 2009
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P.S. LS-DYNA was originally developed in the early 1970s at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, by some of the world's most brilliant and innovative scientists, primarily for the development and simulation of nuclear weapons. It works, but you must know how to use it. This is a nontrivial exercise that requires a lot of dedication and effort.GilDodgen
September 5, 2009
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...you introduce an additional element of reality by having the computer running the simulation experence a similar enviroment to that being simulated! This is a completely incoherent comment, and I have no idea what you are talking about. I've just finished a set of FEA simulations at work, the validity of which have been empirically verified through actual physical tests of the systems in question. If you think FEA has limited practical use I would suggest that you investigate LS-DYNA, the FEA program I use. http://www.lstc.com/GilDodgen
September 5, 2009
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Gil
that I use in my work creating finite-element analysis computer simulations of transient nonlinear dynamic systems.
I have heard about these simulations on the interwebs. The rumour is you introduce an additional element of reality by having the computer running the simulation experence a similar enviroment to that being simulated! It's an interesting idea but I think it will have limited pratical use to be honest.Blue Lotus
September 5, 2009
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This is something that has always intrigued me. All of mathematics can ultimately be traced back to the simple concept of addition: 1 apple plus 1 apple equals 2 apples. Repetitive addition yields multiplication and its inverse yields division. Repetitive multiplication yields exponentiation, and its inverse yields roots (e.g., square roots). From addition we get the notion of its inverse, subtraction. When we subtract a number greater than the number from which it is subtracted we get negative numbers. When we take the square root of -1 (positive times positive = positive, and negative times negative = positive, so negative numbers should not have square roots, but let’s just assume that such a number actually exists) we get the imaginary number i, which leads to complex numbers that have both imaginary and real components. The interesting thing is that even such strange things as imaginary numbers describe physical reality, and have concrete applicability in physical science. Here’s another one: F = MA (force equals mass times acceleration) This is a fundamental law of physics, described in the most simple of all mathematical equations, that I use in my work creating finite-element analysis computer simulations of transient nonlinear dynamic systems. (All that means simulating real-life stuff, like cars crashing and figuring out how to design them so that they absorb the energy of impact and protect the human occupants.) But here’s something very interesting about such a simple mathematical equation as F = MA. Force (e.g., lbf, or pound force) = Mass times Acceleration. Acceleration could be something like feet per second per second (ft. / sec.^2). Solving for Mass with simple algebra we get: lbf / (ft. / sec.^2) or (lbf times sec.^2) / ft. Thus, we calculate mass density by dividing mass by volume (in this case ft.^3), and we get: lbf sec.^2 / ft.^4 How interesting! The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space. And all of this ultimately comes from 1 apple plus 1 apple equals 2 apples.GilDodgen
September 5, 2009
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