Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

Of Pulsars and Pauses

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DrREC is not just any Darwinist.  He holds a doctorate and has published on complex matters of biology in peer reviewed journals.  He is not stupid.  That’s why I like to use his examples in my posts.  I am not picking on a defenseless layman.  He’s among the Darwinists’ best and brightest.  So let’s get to his latest pronouncement from on high:

DrREC writes: 

Pulsars often have a complex behavior. But is it specified? If we took the pattern of pulses we detect as the ‘design specification’ — the pattern we search for, we would conclude yes. Totally and undeniably circular. Prove me wrong.

Here’s the problem with DrREC’s reasoning.  He seems to assume (despite being told the contrary numerous times), that any “pattern” can be designated post hoc as “specified.”  He does not seem to understand the most basic concepts of design theory.  The answer is that not any pattern can legitimately be called a specification. 

In a comment to my prior post Bruce David explains the concept nicely as follows:

Dembski’s work builds on that of earlier probability theorists’ who were wrestling with the problem that, for example, any pattern of heads and tails obtained by tossing a coin 100 times is equally improbable, yet intuitively, a pattern of 50 heads followed by 50 tails is in some sense far less probable than a ‘normal’ random pattern. In order to solve this conundrum, they came up with the idea of specification—if the pattern of heads and tails can be described independently of the actual pattern itself, then it is specified, and specified patterns can be said to be non-random. And note, the pattern does not have to be described ahead of time; the requirement is just that it is capable of being described independently of the actual pattern itself. In other words, a normal ‘random’ pattern can only be described by something equivalent to ‘the first toss was heads, the second heads, the third tails,’ and so on, whereas the example above is specified because it can be described as I already have, namely, ’50 heads followed by 50 tails’.

Back to DrREC’s question.  The pulses from the pulsar are indeed highly complex (i.e., improbable).  But they are never specified because they cannot be, as Bruce says, “described independently of the actual pattern itself.”  Therefore if we “took the pattern of pulses we detect as the ‘design specification'” even though that pattern could not be described independently of the actual pattern itself, we would simply be wrong.  That pattern does not conform to the definition of a specification. 

DrREC basically says, “If we call any pattern we find a “specification” then any pattern we find will be a “specification,” and that gets us nowhere.  Well, of course he is right as far as it goes.  But at a deeper and more meaningful level he is wrong, because no one says you can call just any pattern you find a specification.  The pattern must conform to a strict criterion before it can be considered a specification. 

So DrREC, I answered your question.  While we are on the issue of pulses you can answer mine.  Suppose researchers detect a repeating series of 1,126 pulses and pauses of unknown origin.  The pulses and pauses start like this (with one’s conforming to pulses and zero’s conforming to pauses):  110111011111011111110 . . .  After analyzing the series they determine that the zero’s are spaces between numbers and the one’s add up to numbers.  Thus, the excerpt I reproduced would be 2, 3, 5 and 7, the first four prime numbers.  The researchers suddenly realize that the 1,126 pulses and pauses represent the prime numbers between 1 and 100.  (Obviously, this was the series in the movie Contact).

My question for you DrREC is this:  Would you join Arch-atheist, uber-materialist, Darwinist Carl Sagan and conclude that this series is obviously designed by an intelligent agent?  If so, why?  After all, it is a hard fact that this series of 1,126 pulses and pauses is NO MORE IMPROBABLE than any other series of 1,126 pulses and pauses.

Comments
Or as you call it a "specification" not merely a pattern. Wondering what the criteria for that are.DrREC
December 14, 2011
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For the third time, "Yes-because it conforms to a recognized PRE-specified pattern-of the prime numbers." What biology have you detected that conforms to a pre-specified pattern, not a post-hoc detection?DrREC
December 14, 2011
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DrREC, you never got around to giving a straight answer to the question. Would you make a design inference and if so why?Barry Arrington
December 14, 2011
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But note that if the specification did not exist beforehand, using the complex pattern detected form the pulsar as the pattern used to detect design (because ala Dembski, design is all about pattern) is totally circular. This is what is going on in biological fcsi fsci fisaci fiasco? I forget. ....DrREC
December 14, 2011
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Wow! A third thread about me! And comments are on! Joy. "It is a hard fact that this series of 1,126 pulses and pauses is NO MORE IMPROBABLE than any other series of 1,126 pulses and pauses." Indeed. "Thus, the excerpt I reproduced would be 2, 3, 5 and 7, the first four prime numbers" Yes-because it conforms to a recognized PRE-specified pattern-of the prime numbers. This is analogous to what I gave you earlier: "In the pulsar example, if the pattern was specified beforehand (say 30 digets of pi) we might conclude design." Not particularly creative on your part, SETI and Contact and all..... What was my question in that comment? Oh yeah: "But in biology, you take post-hoc human specifications-”designs” that describe nature, after scientific investigation, and use them to detect “design.” Maybe someone should PREdict a biological design." Try that one. I like the comments on :)DrREC
December 14, 2011
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