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On the impossibility of replicating the cell: A problem for naturalism

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I have sometimes had the idea that the best way for Intelligent Design advocates to make their case would be to build a giant museum replicating the complexity of the cell on a large scale, so that people could see for themselves how the cell worked and draw their own conclusions. Recently I came across an old quote from biochemist Michael Denton’s Evolution: A Theory in Crisis (Adler and Adler, 1985) which put paid to that idea, but which raised an interesting philosophical puzzle for people who adhere to scientific naturalism – which I define here as the view that there is nothing outside the natural world, by which I mean the sum total of everything that behaves in accordance with scientific laws [or laws of Nature]. Here is the first part of the quote from Denton, which I had seen before (h/t Matt Chait):

To grasp the reality of life as it has been revealed by molecular biology, we must magnify a cell a thousand million times until it is twenty kilometres in diameter and resembles a giant airship large enough to cover a great city like London or New York. What we would then see would be an object of unparalleled complexity and adaptive design. On the surface of the cell we would see millions of openings, like the portholes of a vast space ship, opening and closing to allow a continual stream of materials to flow in and out. If we were to enter one of these openings with find ourselves in a world of supreme technology and bewildering complexity. We would see endless highly organized corridors and conduits branching in every direction away from the perimeter of the cell, some leading to the central memory bank in the nucleus and others to assembly plants and processing units. The nucleus of itself would be a vast spherical chamber more than a kilometer in diameter, resembling a geodesic dome inside of which we would see, all neatly stacked together in ordered arrays, the miles of coiled chains of the DNA molecules. A huge range of products and raw materials would shuttle along all the manifold conduits in a highly ordered fashion to and from all the various assembly plants in the outer regions of the cell.

We would wonder at the level of control implicit in the movement of so many objects down so many seemingly endless conduits, all in perfect unison. We would see all around us, in every direction we looked, all sorts of robot-like machines. We would notice that the simplest of the functional components of the cell, the protein molecules, were astonishingly, complex pieces of molecular machinery, each one consisting of about three thousand atoms arranged in highly organized 3-D spatial conformation. We would wonder even more as we watched the strangely purposeful activities of these weird molecular machines, particularly when we realized that, despite all our accumulated knowledge of physics and chemistry, the task of designing one such molecular machine – that is one single functional protein molecule – would be completely beyond our capacity at present and will probably not be achieved until at least the beginning of the next century. Yet the life of the cell depends on the integrated activities of thousands, certainly tens, and probably hundreds of thousands of different protein molecules.

We would see that nearly every feature of our own advanced machines had its analogue in the cell: artificial languages and their decoding systems, memory banks for information storage and retrieval, elegant control systems regulating the automated assembly of parts and components, error fail-safe and proof-reading devices utilized for quality control, assembly processes involving the principle of prefabrication and modular construction. In fact, so deep would be the feeling of deja-vu, so persuasive the analogy, that much of the terminology we would use to describe this fascinating molecular reality would be borrowed from the world of late twentieth-century technology.

What we would be witnessing would be an object resembling an immense automated factory, a factory larger than a city and carrying out almost as many unique functions as all the manufacturing activities of man on earth. However, it would be a factory which would have one capacity not equalled in any of our own most advanced machines, for it would be capable of replicating its entire structure within a matter of a few hours. To witness such an act at a magnification of one thousand million times would be an awe-inspiring spectacle. (pp. 328 ff.)

Reading this passage vindicated my belief that a museum of the cell would be a great way to promote ID. “If we build it, they will come,” I thought. But there was more to follow, which I hadn’t read before. It turns out that we can’t build a replica of the cell, down to the atomic level:

To gain a more objective grasp of the level of complexity the cell represents, consider the problem of constructing an atomic model. Altogether a typical cell contains about ten million million atoms. Suppose we choose to build an exact replica to a scale one thousand million times that of the cell so that each atom of the model would be the size of a tennis ball. Constructing such a model at the rate of one atom per minute, it would take fifty million years to finish, and the object we would end up with would be the giant factory, described above, some twenty kilometres in diameter, with a volume thousands of times that of the Great Pyramid.

Copying nature, we could speed up the construction of the model by using small molecules such as amino acids and nucleotides rather than individual atoms. Since individual amino acids and nucleotides are made up of between ten and twenty atoms each, this would enable us to finish the project in less than five million years. We could also speed up the project by mass producing those components in the cell which are present in many copies. Perhaps three-quarters of the cell’s mass can be accounted for by such components. But even if we could produce these very quickly we would still be faced with manufacturing a quarter of the cell’s mass which consists largely of components which only occur once or twice and which would have to be constructed, therefore, on an individual basis. The complexity of the cell, like that of any complex machine, cannot be reduced to any sort of simple pattern, nor can its manufacture be reduced to a simple set of algorithms or programmes. Working continually day and night it would still be difficult to finish the model in the space of one million years. (Emphases mine – VJT.)

But there’s more, as Matt Chait points out (emphasis mine):

And let me add my two cents to this astounding picture. The model that you would complete a million years later would be just that, a lifeless static model. For the cell to do its work this entire twenty kilometer structure and each of its trillions of components must be charged in specific ways, and at the level of the protein molecule, it must have an entire series of positive and negative charges and hydrophobic and hydrophilic parts all precisely shaped (at a level of precision far, far beyond our highest technical abilities) and charged in a whole series of ways: charged in a way to find other molecular components and combine with them; charged in a way to fold into a shape and maintain that most important shape, and charged in a way to be guided by other systems of charges to the precise spot in the cell where that particle must go. The pattern of charges and the movement of energy through the cell is easily as complex as the pattern of the physical particles themselves.

Also, Denton, in his discussion, uses a tennis ball to stand in for an atom. But an atom is not a ball. It is not even a ‘tiny solar system’ of neutrons, protons and electrons’ as we once thought. Rather, it has now been revealed to be an enormously complex lattice of forces connected by a bewildering array of utterly miniscule subatomic particles including hadrons, leptons, bosons, fermions, mesons, baryons, quarks and anti-quarks, up and down quarks, top and bottom quarks, charm quarks, strange quarks, virtual quarks, valence quarks, gluons and sea quarks…

And let me remind you again, that what we are talking about, a living cell, is a microscopic dot and thousands of these entire factories including all the complexity that we discussed above could fit on the head of a pin. Or, going another way, let’s add to this model of twenty square kilometers of breath taking complexity another one hundred trillion equally complex factories all working in perfect synchronous coordination with each other; which would be a model of the one hundred trillion celled human body, your body, that thing that we lug around every day and complain about; that would, spread laterally at the height of one cell at this magnification, blanket the entire surface of the earth four thousand times over, every part of which would contain pumps and coils and conduits and memory banks and processing centers; all working in perfect harmony with each other, all engineered to an unimaginable level of precision and all there to deliver to us our ability to be conscious, to see, to hear, to smell, to taste, and to experience the world as we are so used to experiencing it, that we have taken it and the fantastic mechanisms that make it possible for granted.

My question is, “Why don’t we know this?” What Michael Denton has written and I have added to is a perfectly accurate, easily intelligible, non-hyperbolic view of the cell. Why is this not taught in every introductory biology class in our schools?

Based on the foregoing, I think it’s fair to say that we’ll never be able to construct a computer model of the cell either, down to the atomic level: the computing resources required would just be too huge. And in that case, it will never be scientifically possible to model a natural process (or a set of processes) and demonstrate that it could have given rise to the cell – or even show that it had a greater than 50% probability of doing so.

So here’s my question for the skeptics: if we have no hope of ever proving the idea that the cell could have arisen through unguided natural processes, or even showing this idea to be probably true, then how can we possibly be said to know for a fact that this actually happened? Knowledge, after all, isn’t merely a true belief; it has to be a justified true belief. What could justify the claim that abiogenesis actually occurred?

It gets worse. We cannot legitimately be said to know that scientific naturalism is true unless we know that life could have arisen via unguided processes. But if we don’t know the latter, then we cannot know the former. Ergo, scientific naturalism, even if were true, can never be known to be true.

There’s more. Scientific naturalists are fond of claiming that there are only two valid sources of knowledge: a priori truths of logic and mathematics, which can be known through reason alone; and a posteriori empirical truths, which are known as a result of experience and/or scientific inquiry. The statement that abiogenesis occurred without intelligent guidance on the primordial Earth is neither a truth of logic and mathematics nor a truth which can be demonstrated (or even shown to be probable) via experience and/or scientific inquiry. And since we cannot know that scientific naturalism is true unless we know that abiogenesis occurred without intelligent guidance, it follows that the truth of scientific naturalism cannot be known through either of the two avenues of knowledge postulated by the skeptic. So either there must be some third source of knowledge (intuition, perhaps?) that the skeptic has to fall back on. Yeah, right.

And please, don’t tell me, “Well, scientists have explained X, Y and Z, so it’s only a matter of time before they can explain life.” First, that’s illicit reasoning: performing inductive logic over a set of things is problematic enough (black swans, anyone?), but performing it over a set of scientific theories, concocted during a time-span of just 471 years – the Scientific Revolution is commonly held to have begun in 1543 – is absolutely ridiculous. And second, as I’ve argued above, there’s good reason to believe that our computing resources will never be up to the task of showing that the first living cell could have arisen via a natural, unguided process.

One last question: if we cannot know that scientific naturalism is true or even probably true, then why should we believe it?

Checkmate, naturalists? Over to you.

Comments
///Scientific naturalism asserts a negative: No force “outside” of nature acts within nature./// …which is exactly what we observe! What else do you observe? You want science to invoke supernatural forces without any evidence for such a thing! I’m baffled how inane your arguments can be!
Calm down! :-) To be fair, you could posit a shy supernatural tinkerer which avoids being detected, so miracles can happen but not when they can be documented. I like the distinction of naturalism into philosophical and methodological flavours. Science uses methodological naturalism, i.e. for the purposes of doing science we only use naturalistic explanations. This does not necessarily mean that these are the only possible explanations, but that non-material explanations simply can't be tackled scientifically. At best it can find problems that we can't find material explanations for. A problem is that we might not be able to find an explanation for phenomena because they have non-material causes, or because we haven't developed an adequate theory. I can't see a definitive way of distinguishing between the two: the best we can do is to repeatedly reject naturalistic explanations.Bob O'H
November 27, 2014
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Barry Arrington @ 28 ///Scientific naturalism asserts a negative: No force “outside” of nature acts within nature./// …which is exactly what we observe! What else do you observe? You want science to invoke supernatural forces without any evidence for such a thing! I’m baffled how inane your arguments can be! Of course nobody can prove a negative. But you can prove a positive. if ID insists that supernatural beings interfered with earth, then the onus is on you to provide positive evidence for such beings. And you have clearly failed at that. Science works on evidence, Barry, EVIDENCE. Science HAS NO EVIDENCE for anything OUTSIDE nature ---> Scientific Naturalism. ///Miracles do not happen. How do we know? Because they are counter to universal human experience. But what about all of the reports of miracles? We can disregard those. Why should we disregard those reports? Because miracles do not happen./// Wrong, wrong, wrong! Why should we disregard claimed miracles? Because we have naturalistic explanations for the said miracles. Simple. Done.Evolve
November 27, 2014
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logically_speaking @ 87
Who painted the painter?
Self Portrait by looking into a mirrorMe_Think
November 27, 2014
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Seversky, Who painted the painter?logically_speaking
November 27, 2014
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Keith S Design is not the default, natural laws are until they fail....... In the case of a living cell natural laws fail so design becomes the default. Can you give an account perhaps on how natural laws in an unguided manner could have possibly built a cell?Andre
November 26, 2014
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drc466:
Obviously, when I said “methodological naturalism (random forces of physics, chemistry, etc.)”, I wasn’t defining mn, I was providing a list of forces available to mn – as should have been clear from the context of the following phrase: “is not capable of such intricate design”.
That's irrelevant, because I am not a methodological naturalist. drc466:
2) Keith S seems to think that the argument “methodological naturalism (random forces of physics, chemistry, etc.)is not capable of such intricate design” is somehow also an argument against the belief that “an intelligent designer (far more intelligent than humans) must have designed it”.
keiths:
Huh? How did you come up with that?
drc466:
1) The title of the post, and the point of the content of the post is: “On the impossibility of replicating the cell: A problem for naturalism”. 2) Your first comment is “I tell them “if you think you’ve found a whiz-bang argument against your opponent’s position, stop for a minute and ask yourself a simple question: Could this argument be used against me?””. Logical conclusion: Keith S believes that the argument that naturalism is incapable of creating the cell, is also an argument against ID, which believes that an Intelligent Agent is capable of creating the cell.
My point is that Vincent is applying the usual ID double standard by demanding detailed explanations from the naturalist, while failing to provide any details at all for ID. His argument amounts to this: 1) Assume design by default. 2) If you can explain every single detail of, well, everything in terms of natural processes, then accept naturalism; otherwise stick with design. The obvious question is: Why should design be the default? Vincent hasn't justified this unparsimonious move.keith s
November 26, 2014
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Keith S
But it does pay to run your beliefs through the wringer from time to time. The beautiful thing about truth is that it holds up under scrutiny, so there’s no reason to be shy about asking hard questions. The truth will survive, and falsehoods will succumb.
It is ironic that you somehow understand the concept of truth in this materialist world of yours, but that is another conversation You should follow your own advice sometime......Andre
November 26, 2014
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Barry:
It is you who fails to understand the tu quoque fallacy. From Wiki: “It attempts to show that a criticism or objection applies equally to the person making it.” You have done this twice in the space of this comment thread.
You conveniently left out the next sentence of the Wikipedia article:
This attempts to dismiss opponent's position based on criticism of the opponent's inconsistency and not the position presented.
I am not doing that, so your accusation fails. Instead, I'm pointing out that your argument against Graham2...
Upon reflection Graham2?s argument is the ultimate black box argument. “Don’t bother me with questions about the steenkin’ details. I don’t need no steenkin’ details. I have this shiny black box.”
...works equally well against theism. Hence my question:
Do you think that naturalism and theism are both false, since neither can supply the “steenkin’ details” you require?
How about answering the question this time?keith s
November 26, 2014
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Collin asks, regarding my #2:
Is there a different sect of atheism that you might argue against and find your way back to conversion?
That's not how it works. :-) What that experience taught me was the importance of questioning one's beliefs periodically, including the seemingly obvious and self-evident ones (especially those, in fact). For practical reasons, you can't do this all the time. If you spend every morning before work pondering whether your toothbrush is truly real, or just an elaborate illusion, you won't get a lot done. But it does pay to run your beliefs through the wringer from time to time. The beautiful thing about truth is that it holds up under scrutiny, so there's no reason to be shy about asking hard questions. The truth will survive, and falsehoods will succumb. Failing to ask questions, however, can lock you into a lifetime of error. So yes, I question everything, including my atheism, but my atheism is holding up much better than my Christianity ever did. Christianity is so full of contradictions and nonsensical ideas that it's hard to imagine that it could actually be true, though I'm open to looking at any new evidence that arises. Having been a Christian as a kid, it would be easy for me to fit back into that culture -- if the evidence were there. It isn't there, though, and I'm not holding my breath.keith s
November 26, 2014
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vjtorley:
Based on the foregoing, I think it’s fair to say that we’ll never be able to construct a computer model of the cell either, down to the atomic level: the computing resources required would just be too huge.
Vincent, As others have pointed out, it's rarely necessary to simulate at the atomic level, and in fact it's usually wasteful to do so. Smart modelers adjust the granularity of the simulation to fit the problem they're tackling. In my own field of processor design, we use a large number of models ranging from the highly concrete to the very abstract. It would be an utter waste of compute resources to run, say, a CPU-level logic simulation at the same level of detail as a custom RAM macro simulation. In any case, computational biologists have already managed to do some amazing things with their simulations. See this New York Times article from a couple of years ago: In First, Software Emulates Lifespan of Entire Organism From the article:
The simulation, which runs on a cluster of 128 computers, models the complete life span of the cell at the molecular level, charting the interactions of 28 categories of molecules — including DNA, RNA, proteins and small molecules known as metabolites, which are generated by cell processes. “The model presented by the authors is the first truly integrated effort to simulate the workings of a free-living microbe, and it should be commended for its audacity alone,” wrote two independent commentators, Peter L. Freddolino and Saeed Tavazoie, both of Columbia University, in an editorial accompanying the article. “This is a tremendous task, involving the interpretation and integration of a massive amount of data.”
keith s
November 26, 2014
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bornagain77 @ 58
Seversky, congratulations, with your “who designed the designer” objection you have just made what many leading philosophers consider the worst possible objection to God:
Anyone who thinks the dilemma of Infinite Regress (IR) versus uncaused first cause (UFC) (or "who designed the designer" or "what caused God") has been settled does not understand the arguments. In the case of Infinite Regress, although our minds instinctively rebel against the concept because it is impossible to grasp, there seems to be no logical contradiction involved. There is no obvious reason why such a state of affairs could not exist. Of course, many find the notion absurd on its face and creationists reject it because it removes the need for a Creator but neither of those views make it impossible. However, if we accept, if only for the sake of argument, that IR is impossible or, at the least, unacceptable then there is no option other than a UFC. The problem here is that if it is not logically necessary to choose that option it is an arbitrary choice. We are choosing it because we don't like the alternative, nothing more. That's hardly a compelling reason for thinking it might be true. Further, if we assume that the UFC is more specifically the Christian God, we run into further problems. If God is to be our UFC then He must be a necessary being in the philosophical sense of not being contingent or dependent on anything outside Himself in the slightest. Leaving aside the irony of envisaging an infinite being to solve the problem of an infinite regress, the questions are, why did He create us now, indeed, why did He create anything at all? Christian theology answers by saying, for example, that He desires a loving relationship with His creatures. But that implies He is not self-sufficient, not necessary, and that is a contradiction. "Who designed the designer?", "Who created the Creator?", "What caused God?" are all perfectly good questions. Many clever people have worked hard to answer them over the last couple of thousand years or so but, the fact is, so far no one has managed to nail it.Seversky
November 26, 2014
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Gary
But with so much still unknown it’s too early to show even half of what goes on inside a cell. It could easily take hundreds of years to only almost get right.
True but I hold that we will be able to reverse engineer the process, with biomimetics we are benefiting from our efforts.... But this will only become better when we drop the "chance" did it attitude and study nature in more detail on how it works. http://www.bloomberg.com/slideshow/2013-08-18/14-smart-inventions-inspired-by-nature-biomimicry.html#slide1Andre
November 26, 2014
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I have to say the demarcation problem is causing many headaches. Lots of pseudo science is called science these days......Andre
November 26, 2014
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I have sometimes had the idea that the best way for Intelligent Design advocates to make their case would be to build a giant museum replicating the complexity of the cell on a large scale, so that people could see for themselves how the cell worked and draw their own conclusions.
I would like to see that too! But with so much still unknown it's too early to show even half of what goes on inside a cell. It could easily take hundreds of years to only almost get right.Gary S. Gaulin
November 26, 2014
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vjtorley:
One last question: if we cannot know that scientific naturalism is true or even probably true, then why should we believe it?
Science does not care whether we adhere to the philosophical belief of Naturalism or not. Only its adherents care that all else believe it. As far as science is concerned something either exists or it does not. Since both hypotheses and theories must be testable (and have repeatable results) saying "God did it" does not work in science without naturalism either. I found that the words "natural" and "supernatural" unnecessarily complicate matters. I no longer adhere to the philosophy.Gary S. Gaulin
November 26, 2014
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vjtorley:
One last question: if we cannot know that scientific naturalism is true or even probably true, then why should we believe it?
Science does not care whether we adhere to the philosophical belief of Naturalism or not. Only its adherents care that all else believe it. As far as science is concerned something either exists or it does not. Since both hypotheses and theories must be testable (and have repeatable results) saying "God did it" does not work in science without naturalism either. I found that the words "natural" and "supernatural" unnecessarily complicate matters. I no longer adhere to the philosophy.Gary S. Gaulin
November 26, 2014
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Learned Hand @ 30 Mission not accomplished, but I appreciate that you tried! Pregnant with sincerity aren't we. I'm certainly glad the young folks are watching the behavior of the participants here, they have some choices ahead.groovamos
November 26, 2014
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Evolve,
We have never observed any supernatural force tinkering with nature, past or present.
I hope you realize that what you really mean to say is "You have never observed anything you INTERPRET as any supernatural force tinkering with nature." Interpretation of the CAUSE of something is not OBSERVATION it is INTERPRETATION. To try to make this clear to you, you can't argue that there is no designer because you have never personally observed anything which you would call designing. (You certainly can also not speak for everyone else. ) You are sweeping under the rug all the evidence for design and simply declaring it not to be there. If it still is not clear, I will put your argument in clearer terms so you can see the obvious circular nature of it. Please, if you don't think I have correctly characterized your argument, show me why it is not exactly like this. 1. I see things happen in nature. 2. Since these objects I observe follow natural laws, I assume no one designed them. 3. I don't know the source of the natural laws these observations follow, but I'll just assume the natural laws just are, and are not the result of design. 4. Even though it is clear that for some natural objects I observe obeying these natural laws, a mathematical calculation concludes they could not reasonably be built up by chance. AND even though the fact that they could not reasonably be built by chance is a good way for a designer to communicate that these things were designed, I will still assume they happen by chance because I don't observe the design happening. 5. Therefore there is no designer. I hope this helps you to at least not dismiss ID in such a simplistic manner. It is something I believe you really need to take seriously, because I believe your eternal destiny lies in the balance.JDH
November 26, 2014
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Collin: ... since Aristotle Exactly. Like free will, if we have been arguing about it for over 2000 years, its a clue that maybe we are asking the wrong question.Graham2
November 26, 2014
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Graham, even the atheists who delve into theology take this venerable idea seriously. It has been a central idea in theology since Aristotle.Collin
November 26, 2014
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Q @ 53, lol!Mung
November 26, 2014
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Seversky, The answer to the question, "who designed the designer"? Is the same answer to the question, Who painted the painter?logically_speaking
November 26, 2014
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But alas Moose Dr, the atheists/materialists, since the Greeks, are the ones who have been arguing for a simplistic, 'bottom up', atomic view of reality in the first place. i.e. Its the bed they made, let them sleep in it! Its not our fault that the atom is far, far, more complex than the materialists/atheists had originally envisioned or anticipated! History of the Atom - timeline image http://wsc11sci.wikispaces.com/file/view/atom_history.png/297878088/640x480/atom_history.png "Atoms are not things" Werner Heisenberg the complexity of computing the actions of even a simple atom, in detail, quickly exceeds the capacity of our most advanced supercomputers of today: Delayed time zero in photoemission: New record in time measurement accuracy - June 2010 Excerpt: Although they could confirm the effect qualitatively using complicated computations, they came up with a time offset of only five attoseconds. The cause of this discrepancy may lie in the complexity of the neon atom, which consists, in addition to the nucleus, of ten electrons. "The computational effort required to model such a many-electron system exceeds the computational capacity of today's supercomputers," explains Yakovlev. http://www.physorg.com/news196606514.html Why Science Does Not Disprove God - April 27, 2014 Excerpt: "To explain the quantum-mechanical behavior of even one tiny particle requires pages and pages of extremely advanced mathematics. Why are even the tiniest particles of matter so unbelievably complicated? It appears that there is a vast, hidden "wisdom," or structure, or a knotty blueprint for even the most simple-looking element of nature." Amir D. Aczel - mathematician http://time.com/77676/why-science-does-not-disprove-god/ Does the atom have a designer? When science and spirituality meet - LAKHI GOENKA an Engineer - May 2012 Excerpt: Atoms are machines that enable the physical, electromagnetic (including light), nuclear, chemical, and biological (including life) functioning of the universe. Atoms are a complex assembly of interacting particles that enable the entire functioning of the universe. They are the machine that enables all other machines. It is virtually impossible to explain the structure, complexity, internal dynamics, and resulting functionality of the atom from chance events or through evolutionary mechanisms. The atom is a machine that provides multiple functions, and every machine is the product of intelligence. The atom must have a designer. http://www.annarbor.com/news/opinion/does-the-atom-have-a-designer/bornagain77
November 26, 2014
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bornagain77 @ 58,
This means that God is not part of the regular causal chain but in some sense orthogonal to it... ...the universe changes while the unmoved mover does not, or, as the Neoplatonist can tell you, that the universe is made up of parts while its source is absolutely one ...Leibniz could tell you, that the universe is contingent and God absolutely necessary
All those words explain who designed the designer ? No wonder everyone keeps asking the question repeatedly.Me_Think
November 26, 2014
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The 'uncaused cause' is simply another way of saying: 'my god is whatever is needed to do the job'. If everything was green, then my god is green, because that's obviously what is needed. You cant be serious.Graham2
November 26, 2014
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Moose Dr @ 61
Further, trying to go deeper into the atom to add layers of complexity is just silly. Atoms are amazing, yes. But every stone is made of them.
Thanks for the same side goal.Me_Think
November 26, 2014
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Graham2, It's the basics. There's a whole world of theology out there that some great thinkers have contributed to. If you want to delve deep into it, check out the Blackwell Companion to Natural Theology. Or Philosophical Foundations to a Christian Worldview. I find prayer even more enlightening and to answer the question some have had about a third way, there is such thing as revelation.Collin
November 26, 2014
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Keith's, Is there a different sect of atheism that you might argue against and find your way back to conversion?Collin
November 26, 2014
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God is the 'uncaused cause'. Is this 'sophisticated theology' ?Graham2
November 26, 2014
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I am quite puzzled by this post. When you have a very strong case, its not time to exaggerate. However, the cell described here is a eukaryote cell, where an archae cell would be much more appropriate to describe. Its a lot simpler, yet it still replicates. I know, we have reduced the size of our amazing city to that of a small city, rather than a super-city. But still well beyond impressive. Further, trying to go deeper into the atom to add layers of complexity is just silly. Atoms are amazing, yes. But every stone is made of them. They are part of the amazing event of the universe formation, not part of the amazing event of first life. Lets present the simplest possible case of life, and see the naturalists squirm rather than presenting something much more complex, allowing them some room for valid rebuttal.Moose Dr
November 26, 2014
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