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Why Does It Matter? Because Some Calculations Must Be Literally Unthinkable

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I despise Henry Kissinger. He is an evil man. I am currently reading his On China (2011), and I was reminded of just how evil he is when I read his apology for Zhou Enlai (pp. 241-43). For those who do not remember, as premier of the PPR during the tumultuous 60s and 70s, Zhou was Mao’s chief henchman. The world will never know how many people Mao killed. Estimates range from 40 to 80 million, and Zhou was at his side implementing his policies every step of the way. Of this henchman to a genocidal maniac Kissinger writes:

Surely Zhou’s methods of political survival involved lending his administrative skill to the execution of policies that he may well have found personally distasteful . . .

This makes me want to puke. What kind of sociopath uses the word “distasteful” to describe someone’s response to participation in genocide? It will come as no surprise that Kissinger reveres Machiavelli above all other theorists, and nowhere is this more plain than when he continues[in this passage Zhou is the advisor and Mao is the prince in view ]:

The advisor to the prince occasionally faces the dilemma of balancing the benefits of the ability to alter events against the possibility of exclusion, should he bring his objections to any one policy to a head. How does the ability to modify the prince’s prevailing conduct weigh against the moral onus of participation in his policies? How does one measure the element of nuance over time against the claims of absolutes in the immediate? What is the balance between the cumulative impact of moderating trends against that of a grand (and probably doomed) gesture?

How Kissinger answers these questions and his ultimate assessment of Zhou is not in doubt; he called Zhou “one of the two or three most impressive men I have ever met.” God help us. How could we have let a man who could write these things into the very highest echelons of our leadership for a period spanning over five decades?

Kissinger implies that Zhou was a reluctant participant and a moderating influence to Mao’s reign of terror. This view is hotly disputed. In his Mao Zedong and the Cultural Revolution, for example, Angang Hu argues that Zhou’s support, far from moderating the Cultural Revolution, kept it going, and that Zhou was Mao’s enabler, not his moderator.

But let us set that argument aside, because ultimately it is morally irrelevant. Assume for the sake of argument that there is some support for the proposition that Hermann Göring was a moderating influence to the most terrible excesses of the Third Reich. If Hitler had conquered Europe, would it have been appropriate for an American statesman to later praise Hermann Göring and even sympathize with him for the terrible burden of “weighing nuance against absolutes” that he had to bear. I admit the analogy is not quite apt, because Mao killed tens of millions more people than Hitler did. Still, the very idea is absurd.

The “dilemma” Kissinger poses is a false dilemma. The kinds of calculations Kissinger has in mind are morally repugnant. Indeed, they should be unthinkable. Moreover, the measuring to which Kissinger alludes is not only morally loathsome; it is also self-referentially incoherent. It is in the very nature of “absolutes” that they cannot be “measured” or “balanced” against anything else (and most especially against “nuance,” whatever that means).

Absolutes admit no calculation. When faced with the choice of whether to engage in formal cooperation with evil of unspeakable proportions, the only moral choice is to refuse to cooperate. Let us say for the sake of argument that Zhou was in fact given the choice of being Mao’s henchman, in which case “only” 60 million people would die, and refusing to be his henchman, in which case 65 million people would die. Still, the only moral choice was for him to refuse to cooperate with Mao’s evil even if more people (including Zhou himself) would die.

This is not a “train switch” scenario. Moral philosopher’s love to talk about the hapless schmo standing at a train switch. An unstoppable runaway train is coming down the track. If the schmo lets it stay on its present track, 100 people will get run over and die. If he pulls the switch and shunts the train to another track, only 50 people will die. The obvious answer to this dilemma is to pull the switch. If death is inevitable due to uncontrollable forces of nature (in this case the forces of gravity and inertia), the only moral choice is the one that leads to the fewest deaths.

How is this different from Zhou’s non-dilemma? The answer is that the Cultural Revolution was not inevitable. It resulted from the conscious choices of moral agents. If all moral agents had refused to participate, not a single person would have died, because the CR would never have happened.

Some of my readers might remember the movie Sophie’s Choice (or the novel of the same name). The eponymous choice of the movie occurred upon Sophie’s arrival at Auschwitz. A guard forced her to choose which one of her two children would be gassed and which would proceed to the labor camp. If she refused to choose, both children would be killed. What was Sophie to do? Is it not the moral choice to choose one of the children to die so that at least one may live? Sophie chooses her son to live and her daughter to die. Sophie’s choice was profoundly immoral. The only moral choice is to refuse to choose even if this means both children must die. By choosing, Sophie entered into formal cooperation with the guard’s evil. And it is always evil to engage in formal cooperation with evil. Some calculations must be unthinkable. One must never engage in profound evil even if one could somehow attempt to justify it with Kissinger’s balancing act. Fiat justitia ruat caelum (“Let justice be done though the heavens fall”)

What does this have to do with Zhou? Just this. Zhou’s choice was Sophie’s choice writ large.

Why does this all matter? I was prompted to write this post by an exchange with Mark Frank.

I wrote:

You know for a certain fact that torturing an infant for personal pleasure is evil at all places, at all times, for all people.

Mark replied:

I disagree. I don’t believe you know moral judgments as “facts” so I would say that as it stands it is false.

Mark added:

I stressed that it was because I don’t regard moral judgments as facts . . . I think they are opinions not facts.

Finally, Mark said:

I don’t know the innermost psyche of the Incas who performed child sacrifices but it seems quite possible they did it for personal pleasure and thought it was morally OK.

No Mark. You are wrong. Hugely, monstrously, horribly wrong.

It absolutely must be an objective fact that torturing an infant for personal pleasure is evil at all places, at all times, for all people or it is not a fact at all. It is a binary question. Yes/No. The only way the proposition can ever be true is if it is indeed an objective fact. The very act of suggesting that the issue is a matter of opinion as opposed to objective fact is immoral because it renders the proposition false. In other words, to even say that it is not unthinkable for the proposition to be untrue is profoundly immoral, because it is equivalent to saying the proposition is false.

Therefore, even assuming for the sake of argument that some Inca thought it was OK to torture infants for pleasure, it does not follow that his opinion on the subject is entitled to any weight whatsoever. Would we credit our hapless Inca’s views if his opinion were that 1+1=3? Of course, not. When the Inca is wrong about objective fact, we must not hesitate to reject his views categorically even if someone might accuse us of being “intolerant.” Error has no rights. The only moral position is to say that it is literally unthinkable for the proposition to ever be false.

As Zhoe’s non-dilemma was not a matter of calculation but of simple courage to do the only right thing, so too this proposition can never be a matter that could possibly vary due to circumstance, calculation or opinion. It is always true or it is never true.

It is immoral to say that the proposition “torturing an infant for personal pleasure is evil at all places, at all times, for all people” is up for grabs. Why is it evil? Because someone might believe you of course! By saying this you have undermined the “unthinkable-ness” of the converse of the proposition. And when you do that, you have opened a door that must always remain shut.

Comments
SA, you probably missed my edit, which I made for clarification. fGfaded_Glory
February 6, 2015
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faded_Glory
The solution is simple: he considers it right for him, and I consider it wrong for him. You get two different answers because there are two different standards.
We're using only one moral system here, not two. Within subjectivism, it is right for him. Period. To then say "it is wrong for him" is a contradiction.Silver Asiatic
February 6, 2015
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Silver Asiatic: The solution is simple: he considers it right for him, and I consider it wrong for him. You get two different answers because there are two different standards. That is as far as it goes. All the rest is simply you bringing in objectivism where it shouldn't be. Edited to add: my standard applies to everybody in the world, when it comes to me making judgements. his standard applies to everybody in the world, when it comes to him making judgements. To determine if it is right for him or not, you must choose which of the two standards to apply. You cannot answer the question without first specifying that. By omitting this specification, you are unwittingly assuming there is a single standard - this is where you bring in objectivism. fGfaded_Glory
February 6, 2015
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Barry, there isn't anyone here who denies the existence of morality. The disagreement is about whether morality exists external or internal to human beings. ---------------------- By now these discussions are clearly going round in circles. To step back a little, I notice a couple of things: - Objectivists find it extremely hard to think like subjectivists, even briefly and for the sake of argument. Time after time they attempt to 'catch' the subjectivists by making references to what the 'real' moral answers are. They seemingly cannot understand that this is literally a meaningless question if morality is subjective, in the same way that it is a meaningless question if, say, Picasso's 'Guernica' is really a beautiful painting or not. Why is this so hard? - On the other had, I as a subjectivist cannot comprehend how an objectivist can be so sure that his or her personal understanding of the objective moral code is correct. I am sure you guys are convinced that you are correct, but I am unable to understand why you think so, and why you are so sure that many other objectivists down the ages did get it wrong so often. What am I missing? In the end, contrary to Barry, I do not believe that there is so much at stake in this debate. People with either conviction have committed gruesome crimes throughout history. I do not think that the line separating decent people from monsters runs along the division between subjectivists and objectivists. fGfaded_Glory
February 6, 2015
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faded_Glory
The solution is simple: he considers it right for him, and I consider it wrong for him. There is no contradiction here.
See #158. "He considers it right for him - and within subjectivism therefore, it is in fact, right for him". "I consider it wrong for him based on my standard which does not apply to him." But we already determined, by his standard, which is the only standard that applies to him, "it is right". There is nothing about objectivism here -- it's all subjectivism. By subjectivism, "it is right for him" - period.Silver Asiatic
February 6, 2015
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Re #165:
I am glad I scare you only a little. You (and by “you” I don’t mean you personally; I mean everyone who thinks it is a good idea to deny the existence of morality) scare me a lot, and for good reason.
I do not believe that you scare MF (or other subjectivists for that matter) in the way that you'd like. You're scary to me in the sense that I will work wherever and whenever I can to show people just how scary and misguided your views are. Not sure that's what you are going for here. You certainly will not scare anybody 'straight' with your posts.hrun0815
February 6, 2015
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Brent: Every time a subjectivist stands up for others, it really is him/her standing up for their own private values. Let's take a case. A man saves a child from a burning house fire. The press, of course, make him out to be a hero. He says, "I'm not a hero. I only did what anyone would do given the situation." He's stating what he considers to be a universal standard of behavior. But that doesn't necessarily imply he is an objectivist. He could very well be a subjectivist who thinks that that is what people should do given the circumstances. He is reinforcing what he considers to be right-behavior in order to instill that belief in others. Perhaps his own children are watching.Zachriel
February 6, 2015
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MF:
I think it is utterly implausible that their views on metaethics were responsible.
Are you nuts? A person's views on ethics are responsible for all of their ethical choices. Bound up in that sentence is everything that is wrong with your views and the views of most of the materialists who comment on these pages. You think it is all a big game with no real world consequences. It is not. Someone taught Eric Harris (God help that person; his hands are soaked in blood even if he does not know or admit it) the ethical premises of materialism: There is no foundation for good and evil; it is all fallible opinion; people are nothing but clever hairless apes; we are deluding ourselves if we think people have "rights" any more than any other animal. Harris worked out the ethical implications of those premises for his life and acted on his conclusions. From similar premises Mao worked out the conclusion that it all boils down to who is holding the gun. I am glad I scare you only a little. You (and by "you" I don't mean you personally; I mean everyone who thinks it is a good idea to deny the existence of morality) scare me a lot, and for good reason.Barry Arrington
February 6, 2015
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fG,
If I am teaching a student some equation and the student gives an answer that I don’t THINK is right, but I’m not sure either, is it fair for me to mark the student’s answer as wrong before I verify? And if I am not able to verify, am I then justified in insisting that the student is wrong?
Here you go again, forcing subjectivity into an objective framework. You assume that the question has an objectively correct answer. This will be the case for some questions (the solution to an equation), but not for others (e.g. is the Mona Lisa a beautiful painting?). Morality falls into the latter category, in my view.
I don't think you appreciate the appropriateness of the question. Because we are talking mathematical equations you are assuming there is an objectively correct answer. But in the analogy I'm saying we don't know what it is. In reality, however, though you and I are convinced of our own views on morality, we don't KNOW that our view is correct. There may be an OBJECTIVE, or SUBJECTIVE answer. We don't know what the answer is. It is as the analogy. Now, is it, according to your own subjective morality, moral to insist that one is wrong when you don't know? EDIT: Sorry! I should have made that question more explicit. Again: Is it, according to your own subjective morality, moral to insist that one IS wrong when you don't know if they are wrong, even if privately you strongly believe they are?Brent
February 6, 2015
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Brent: Every time a subjectivist stands up for others, it really is him/her standing up for their own private values. Of course, but the action is considered selfless if it requires the sacrifice of one for another. That's true of anyone, subjectivist or objectivist. Indeed, while we often think of society in terms of law, when someone risks their life for another, it's not because of law, but because of their own sense of morality propelling them to action.Zachriel
February 6, 2015
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Zachriel, I understand your point, and have for some time now after reading the thread. I of course still think there are glaring problems with your view. Nonetheless, I think you'll have to admit that in the sense I am talking, no one really stands up for others (in your scenario of morality) since one's moral beliefs are ultimately subjective. I.E., "I stood up for my kid because "I" believe it was wrong that he was about to be clobbered. I stood up for my wife because "I" believe she shouldn't have to put up with harrassment. I stood up for the stranger because "I" thought he should be treated the same as everybody else." Every time a subjectivist stands up for others, it really is him/her standing up for their own private values.Brent
February 6, 2015
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StephenB: The contradiction is obvious. It can’t be both right for him and wrong for him. That is not what I said. I said: The solution is simple: he considers it right for him, and I consider it wrong for him. There is no contradiction here. You are the one introducing a contradiction that isn't there, by insisting that there is an independent objective standard against which his right-ness or wrong-ness is measured. According to us subjectivists there is no such standard, so it makes literally no sense to keep trying to bring it into the conversation. fGfaded_Glory
February 6, 2015
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Brent in 143: Is it moral to impose your moral views on someone else if you don’t know you’re right? Nay! If you CAN’T know you’re right? Or the other wrong? As Mark Frank says, this has been explained many times already. Like StephenB, you are still trying to force subjective morality into an objective framework. That is why you spot inconsistencies. Seen purely from a subjective point of view, there are none. Like everybody else, within my subjective framework I am certain of the (im)morality of some things, and less certain of the (im)morality of other things. Many times I DO know that I am right, according to my moral standards. No different from an objectivist, I am sure. Is it moral in your view to do more than just suggest to someone else he/she may be wrong, as opposed to IS wrong, when you have differing subjective moral values? To the point of threatening with a gun??? If someone is, say, TBFF, I am certain that they are wrong according to my moral standard. In a case like that I would surely point a gun at them, if I had one. Is it moral to insist you are in the right, and the other in the wrong, when in fact you CANNOT know? When I am uncertain if something is moral according to my standards, I would not insist that I am right. When I am certain, I will insist that I am right. Just like an objectivist. If I am teaching a student some equation and the student gives an answer that I don’t THINK is right, but I’m not sure either, is it fair for me to mark the student’s answer as wrong before I verify? And if I am not able to verify, am I then justified in insisting that the student is wrong? Here you go again, forcing subjectivity into an objective framework. You assume that the question has an objectively correct answer. This will be the case for some questions (the solution to an equation), but not for others (e.g. is the Mona Lisa a beautiful painting?). Morality falls into the latter category, in my view. fGfaded_Glory
February 6, 2015
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BA ‘#124  
You are conceding that the unthinkable could be thinkable. If you are correct, there really is no such thing as morality.
These are two rather broad statements which could mean many different things. I am surprised to find, given your profession, that you are rather averse to detailed objective analysis but I will do it anyway. “Unthinkable” clearly does not mean “it is impossible to think about it”. You have to think about it to reject it. In a moral context it usually means something like “so bad it should not even be considered as a course of action”. I certainly would never consider child torture a possible course of action.  It is remotely possible that someone else might – but that’s true under objectivism as well. So I really don’t see what you are claiming.   The key differences between our positions could be described as I regard morality as a human activity, you regard it as a set of facts about the world. If you mean that if I am correct there is no set of moral facts – I agree. If you mean no one is geniunely thinking certain things are right or wrong then I strongly disagree. Do you think there is such a thing as beauty or humour?    
There really is such a thing as morality. Therefore, you are not correct. If you are correct, there really is no such thing as right and wrong. There is only the strong who do what they want and the weak who endure that which they cannot prevent. The world you describe is not a world I want to live in. Mao, on the other hand, would appreciate the freedom from any limit your moral viewpoint gives him, and we all know how that turned out.
  If you still genuinely think this after all these exchanges then I can do no more.  
I apologize for saying you are liar.
  Thank you.  
You are just deeply deeply, mind boggling misguided. It makes me sad, and it frightens the hell out of me.
  Of course we both think each other misguided – otherwise there would be no debate. You frighten me a bit as well.  
There are monsters out there. I am certain you are not one of them. You’ve always seemed like a descent fellow. But the 20th century was one long blood-soaked testament to what happens when monsters are taught the lesson you are teaching and take it to heart. I can personally attest that so was Columbine. At a moral theory level, Eric Harris made it clear in the record he left behind that Columbine was a microcosm of the 20th century. Ironic perhaps that in occurred in 1999. The massacre was Mao writ small.  
I don’t disagree there are monsters. I think it is utterly implausible that their views on metaethics were responsible.  Even if they were responsible it is not evidence for or against any particular view.Mark Frank
February 6, 2015
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Mark
There is no contradiction between: In my opinion A is doing wrong. and In A’s opinion A is doing right.
By my standard I claim A is doing wrong. But my standard is totally irrelevant and does not apply to to A. A's actions can only be considered right or wrong by A's standards, not by mine. It is incorrect to say "A is doing wrong" by any other standard than A's (within subjectivism). By my standard of English pronunciation, a person who speaks only Russian is speaking bad English. Obviously, that is nonsense. You're judging the person by an irrelevant standard. In my opinion, A speaks English badly. In A's opinion, A speaks Russian very well. Your opinion is meaningless in this case. Here again ... In my opinion, A thinks he is a rhinoceros. In A's opinion, A thinks he is a human being. This is a contradiction and illustrates that your opinion about what A thinks is irrelevant. Whatever you think about A's morality is irrelevant to the fact that what A decided as morally good, is in fact, morally good for A. What A decided as morally good is, in fact, morally good for A. To then say ... What A decided as morally good is morally bad for A - is a contradiction.Silver Asiatic
February 6, 2015
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fG @152, I think that's the way I initially took it, but I was pointing at how it can be taken at another level (i.e., @153).Brent
February 6, 2015
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Brent: No. I mean it more subtly than that. I.E., ultimately, it is a private subjective opinion of what does or should matter enough to us to stand up for. It may be subjective that you love your children, but as you do love them, you will stand up for them. It takes no objective standard to motivate someone to stand up for something they personally value, to stand up for someone other than oneself.Zachriel
February 6, 2015
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Mark Frank
The solution is simple: he considers it right for him, and I consider it wrong for him. There is no contradiction here.
The contradiction is obvious. It can't be both right for him and wrong for him.StephenB
February 6, 2015
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Mark Frank,
If I am teaching a student some equation and the student gives an answer that I don’t THINK is right, but I’m not sure either, is it fair for me to mark the student’s answer as wrong before I verify? And if I am not able to verify, am I then justified in insisting that the student is wrong?
You've answered a question put like that? If you say you did, then I'll look, but I've missed it if you have.Brent
February 6, 2015
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Zachriel, No. I mean it more subtly than that. I.E., ultimately, it is a private subjective opinion of what does or should matter enough to us to stand up for.Brent
February 6, 2015
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Brent: I think that’s an important thing you’ve said. It’s long been my feeling that objective moral duty calls on us not to stand up for ourselves, but for others. We are too partial to ourselves to be objective. But a subjectivist stance seems only to offer standing up for oneself. Obviously, the purpose of me stopping him would be to prevent him harming someone. What I meant with 'having no choice (towards myself)' was that I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I hadn't taken an action to stop him. I'm not sure you understood it that way. fGfaded_Glory
February 6, 2015
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Brent: But a subjectivist stance seems only to offer standing up for oneself. That is not the case. Subjectivism just means that if someone values something, then they will defend it, whether that something is themselves, their family, their neighbors, or even intangibles, such as liberty or pride. Nor is subjectivism incompatible with adopting moral or legal codes.Zachriel
February 6, 2015
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c hand
If “morality is at core a matter of opinion” how could anyone fail to be “thoroughly moral”?
Because we have motives other than the desire to do what we consider good and all too often those other motives win out. FOr a thoroughly moral person they win out less often.Mark Frank
February 6, 2015
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#143 Brent (I guess the response is intended for me) This has come up many times over the last few days. I really don’t want to go over it yet again.  Please look back through the thread and the preceding two threads. (I am sorry but I really haven't the will to track down exactly where it was discussed.)Mark Frank
February 6, 2015
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fG,
(towards myself)
I think that's an important thing you've said. It's long been my feeling that objective moral duty calls on us not to stand up for ourselves, but for others. We are too partial to ourselves to be objective. But a subjectivist stance seems only to offer standing up for oneself.Brent
February 6, 2015
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StephenB: You say that, for the subjectivist–for any and all subjectivists–right and wrong is determined by his personal convictions. That is the definition of moral subjectivism. Yet you also say that some things, such as torturing babies, is wrong for all subjectivists , including the subjectivists whose convictions are in conflict with your convictions. This is a contradiction. It cannot be both right for him (by virtue of his subjectively- held convictions), and wrong for him (by virtue of your claim that it is wrong for all subjectivists, including him). You cannot escape this contradiction. You are still trying to force subjective morality into an objective framework. I know you are trying hard to understand our point of view and I appreciate it. The solution is simple: he considers it right for him, and I consider it wrong for him. There is no contradiction here. If you are looking for a single, definitive, objective solution to the difference ("ok, ok, I get that, but who is actually right?"), there is no such thing, if subjective morality is true. fGfaded_Glory
February 6, 2015
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Tim #139, Sophie is a key determinant whether she wants it or not
Tim: Respectfully, I disagree. Morally, one can not be a “determinant” in this situation. Prior even to hearing her “choices”, the evil has been done by others.
I fully agree that the evil has been done by others. During all of history people are placed in horrible positions due to the evil done by others. We did not choose Communist-China nor the Nazi-regime nor ISIS. However we have to deal with the reality at hand whether we want or not - we are part of this world. I don't see how we can extract ourselves morally from a situation- created by others -by "in-action".Box
February 6, 2015
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Sb 133  
You say that, for the subjectivist–for any and all subjectivists–right and wrong is determined by his personal convictions. That is the definition of moral subjectivism. Yet you also say that some things, such as torturing babies, is wrong for all subjectivists , including the subjectivists whose convictions are in conflict with your convictions. This is a contradiction. It cannot be both right for him (by virtue of his subjectively- held convictions), and wrong for him (by virtue of your claim that it is wrong for all subjectivists, including him). You cannot escape this contradiction.
  Remember I believe that a moral statement is a statement of opinion. There is no contradiction between:   In my opinion  A is doing wrong.   and   In A’s opinion A is doing right.   Just as there is no contradiction between:   In my opinion A is beautiful.   and   In A’s opinion A is ugly.   There is only a contradiction if you think "A is doing right" is an objective fact and that it is true in virtue of someone thinking it to be true – which would be a very odd position to hold.Mark Frank
February 6, 2015
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I take a different view on objective morality than most here, I think. Objective morality (in my view) has several sources. The weakest and most difficult to access and evaluate is the authority of conscience pointing to objective, universal moral norms. Those are only general norms, but even those can be misinterpreted. They reference the human conscience - which can be corrupted.
Therefore, even assuming for the sake of argument that some Inca thought it was OK to torture infants for pleasure, it does not follow that his opinion on the subject is entitled to any weight whatsoever.
We have to measure his view against a standard. The Inca acted with regard to objective norms sourced through his religious teachings and not merely from natural law. You could evaluate Inca religious belief (polytheism) as the source of moral authority - and thus the reason for child sacrifice. But I don't think you could say that their ideas are self-evidently wrong or worthy of no weight.
Would we credit our hapless Inca’s views if his opinion were that 1+1=3? Of course, not.
I don't think these comparisons of morality with mathemetics work. Of course, we can add one apple to one apple and arrive at the sum total. We can't do that with moral ideas.
When the Inca is wrong about objective fact, we must not hesitate to reject his views categorically even if someone might accuse us of being “intolerant.” Error has no rights. The only moral position is to say that it is literally unthinkable for the proposition to ever be false.
I agree that 'error has no rights' but I think we can only reject his views on a comparative basis and not caetgorically. Rather than taking a specific example: "to torture infants for pleasure" - the natural moral law is generalized and doesn't detail every instance. A better approach might be "pleasure is always the correct motive to determine that an act is morally good" - which conflicts with the objective morality of conscience. That seems to speak more directly the the universal, objective moral law of conscience. But it's a weak proof and only very generalized. Is this moral precept an objective moral fact?: "It is morally necessary to worship God". If so, then the natural moral law points to the necessity of religious belief and worship.Silver Asiatic
February 6, 2015
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Well, I take that as a yes. So, according to your subjectivism, you are inconsistent by saying that you are free to impose your subjective moral values on others who have differing subjective moral values. You say that you can point to no objective standard to validate your values as true, and yet you impose your values as if they actually are true and adhering to some standard by which you can actually judge them such. Is it moral to impose your moral views on someone else if you don't know you're right? Nay! If you CAN'T know you're right? Or the other wrong? Is it moral in your view to do more than just suggest to someone else he/she may be wrong, as opposed to IS wrong, when you have differing subjective moral values? To the point of threatening with a gun??? Is it moral to insist you are in the right, and the other in the wrong, when in fact you CANNOT know? You've said you will do it. But is it moral? If I am teaching a student some equation and the student gives an answer that I don't THINK is right, but I'm not sure either, is it fair for me to mark the student's answer as wrong before I verify? And if I am not able to verify, am I then justified in insisting that the student is wrong?Brent
February 6, 2015
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