Archaeologists believe they found the oldest Hebrew text in Israel – including the name of God

_{Eric Hedin

June 27, 2022

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Correspondent Tal Heinrich writes at ALL ISRAEL NEWS:

The potentially history-changing lead tablet that was found at Mount Ebal may provide proof that the Israelites were literate when they entered the Holy Land.

The earliest Hebrew text to date may have been discovered in ancient Israel, according to archaeologist Dr. Scott Stripling and a team of international scholars.

The text appears to be an old curse inscribed with 40 Hebrew letters on a lead tablet. The finding, which could be one of the greatest archaeological discoveries ever, was announced at a press conference on Thursday in Houston, Texas.

Archaeological site at Mount Ebal, February 15, 2021. (Photo: Shomrim Al Hanetzach)

The proto-alphabetic Hebrew text was unearthed in December 2019 during excavations on Mount Ebal. Located near biblical Shechem – the modern-day Palestinian city of Nablus – the mountain is known from Deuteronomy 11:29 as a place of curses. It is believed to be the site where Joshua built an altar to the Lord, described in Joshua 8:31 as “an altar of unhewn stones, upon which no man had lifted up any iron.”

The roughly 2×2 centimeters folded-lead curse tablet includes the acronym of God, YHVH, as well as the Hebrew word arur, which means “cursed.” Archaeologists believe it dates to the Late Bronze Age (circa 1,200 BC), based on analysis of the scans and lead analysis of the artifact.
According to the Times of Israel, the discovery would be the first attested use of the name of God in the Land of Israel. This may also reveal that Israelite literacy has been evident centuries before previously proven. If the date is verified, it means the Israelites were literate when they entered the Holy Land and therefore could have written the Bible since some of the events documented took place.

“This is a text you find only every 1,000 years,” Haifa University Prof. Gershon Galil told the Times of Israel. Galil helped decipher the hidden internal text of the folded lead tablet based on high-tech scans conducted by the academy. The advanced technology was used in order to avoid destroying the tablet when trying to open it.
All Israel News

Comments

ET (attn FH): In addition, there is the pretence of getting functionally complex specific organisation and associated information, algorithms, code, language and associated execution machinery for free at just the right time and in just the right combination and organisation. We are seeing more and more that the naturalistic origin of cell based life story is little more than a just so story dressed up in a lab coat. KFkairosfocus_{July 4, 2022
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Fred Hickson:
I repeat that RNA World drives a coach and horses through your idea that aaRSs could not have evolved.
I repeat that you are deluded or on drugs. First, there isn't any evidence for any RNA world. Next, the claim pertains to evolution by means of blind and mindless processes. So, you are still equivocating like a clueless infant. Alan Fox does that same childish nonsense. And finally, you have yet to show any link between any RNA world and DNA-based life. All Fred/ Alan has is denial and fantasy.ET_{July 4, 2022
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Fred Hickson:
What symbolism is there in the process of DNA to protein transcription/translation?
That mRNA codons REPRESENT amino acids, just like dots and dashes represent letters in Morse, means that the mRNA codons are the symbols, Fred. And there isn't any chemical reactions that determined which mRNA codons represent which amino acids. It is arbitrary in that regard.ET_{July 4, 2022
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Fred Hickson:
But the fact is using the words “code, coding, encoding, translating” etc when talking about DNA and the iconic process from DNA template to messenger RNA to protein is not a code in any analogous sense to language.
The genetic code is a code in the same sense as Morse. So, it is a language of the genes. The communication is from one part of the cell to another.ET_{July 4, 2022
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Q: "nor do they involve any symbols or actual intelligence as he has repeatedly and convincingly demonstrated here to everyone’s complete satisfaction." Indeed, no experiment has ever met such a convincing threshold of proof as he has done in his demonstration of no 'actual intelligence' behind his use of symbols. :) Certainly he qualifies for Perry Marshall's 10 million dollar OOL prize. :)bornagain77_{July 4, 2022
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Fred Hickson is on to something in his assertion that “language” doesn’t actually exist. As he boldly asserts, what we're dealing with are physical compression waves, which have a completely natural origin with absolute zero significance! The fundamentally erroneous term, “language,” started in a world of RNA sound: Random Natural Alterations within a chaotic gaseous environment. These noises had zero intrinsic symbology. Later, the RNA musta evolved into Directed Natural Alterations (DNA) after natural selection worked its magic on RNA that locally standardized some of these natural vibrations through evolution. That’s how scientists determined that the original expression of pain in some parts of the world musta converged on R-AWK as a cry concomitant (but not symbolic of) with damaging encounters involving geomorphic entities. Over billions of years this DNA evolved into accretions of strings of natural compression waves. But as Fred Hickson asserts, these natural compression waves, while they might have an appearance of intelligent design, are most certainly not “language” nor do they involve any symbols or actual intelligence as he has repeatedly and convincingly demonstrated here to everyone’s complete satisfaction. -QQuerius_{July 4, 2022
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AS, that's the site of Joshua's Altar. KFkairosfocus_{July 1, 2022
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KF No no I know you did “It speaks to YHWH, it uses a plausible pre standardised Hebrew text, so it is ever more plausible that the modernist, skeptical narrative on the OT [esp the Hexateuch] is discredited“ Which is one of the main reasons why I was fascinated with this coupled with the fact that it speaks of God as early as it did This is surprising for me because, at least from what I understand, they were using word of mouth too pass down biblical traditions and not writing them down, showing another level of sophistication they we were not aware of It would be absolutely splendid if they found more tablets and maybe something providing a smoking gun for exodus putting to bed the accusations that it didn’t happenAaronS1978_{July 1, 2022
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AS78, actually I have tried to comment on the OP several times, but with little uptake. While we await professional publication (and the press conference was due to a leaking problem), it is reasonable that we see here a c 1400 BC text, one that broadly fits in with Job 19:24 talking of making a text with an iron point and lead. (Translations vary as to exact sense.) It is on the OT mount of Covenantal Cursing, next to an evidently Israelite major ceremonial altar already identified with the text on Joshua. It speaks to YHWH, it uses a plausible pre standardised Hebrew text, so it is ever more plausible that the modernist, skeptical narrative on the OT [esp the Hexateuch] is discredited. The text also fits with the earlier text seen in Sinai and associated with Egyptian script one way and Hebraic the other. The elements of course are those of a string data structure with alphanumeric elements, conveying functional intelligible information and are readily identifiable as archaeology not natural. That example reasonably does point to the text in living cells and to the point that we need to now regard the D/RNA text as historical record leading to a comprehensive rewrite of Chapter Zero of world history. Of course, those locked into the evolutionary materialistic scientism agenda will be alarmed or even angered and will predictably resort to selective and inconsistent hyperskepticism. But the balance on merits is increasingly plain. KFkairosfocus_{July 1, 2022
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Well JVL I’m not being weird and I have no problem with the two of you having friendly relationship but when it looks like the two of you are sticking to a Dawkins playbook style of arguing and then congratulating each other it gets a little annoying And speaking of sticking to topic I don’t think anybody on this thread stuck to topic because the original thread was about a very amazing archaeological discovery So if you wanna stick the topic let’s stick to the topic of the threat instead of arguing aimlessly about whether dna can be considered a language And also my emotional baggage? your behavior set my mood, it has nothing to do with any emotional baggage. Do you understand what emotional baggage is? Your description seems overly melodramatic for me being annoyed with the two of youAaronS1978_{June 30, 2022
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Could you give some examples so that I know what you’re thinking.
A dog peeing on a tree.
If you can’t honestly and accurately reflect what has been said then should we take your own statements seriously?
Your position is that the undemonstrated beliefs of the proponents of unguided OoL invalidates the history of experimental results that support a guided OoL. Should we take you seriouly?Upright BiPed_{June 30, 2022
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AaronS1978: JVL think I was pretty honest about it and what was the whole commentary about “I like your style” and “compliments will get you everywhere” Nothing to do with you or the topic under consideration. Was it? That's just you being weird. That certainly look liked the two of you were patting each other on the back Which kind of set my mood for reflecting on you and FH’s commentary Oh, sorry. Fred and I can't have some kind of friendly exchange without you thinking we had some great conspiracy against you. So I’m sorry you don’t appreciate my criticisms of the both of you, maybe I misinterpreted your position. Just stick with the actual topics. Leave your emotional baggage behind.JVL_{June 30, 2022
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JVL I think I was pretty honest about it and what was the whole commentary about “I like your style” and “compliments will get you everywhere” That certainly look liked the two of you were patting each other on the back Which kind of set my mood for reflecting on you and FH’s commentary So I’m sorry you don’t appreciate my criticisms of the both of you, maybe I misinterpreted your position if so I apologizeAaronS1978_{June 30, 2022
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AaronS1978: I just wasted my time reading all of this, FH and JVL are simply dismissing everyone’s examples straight out of hand, saying no. its not, and patting each other on the back for a job well done I don't think that is a fair consideration of my position at all. I was primarily responding to the statement by Bornagain77 that there was an overlap between human language(s) and DNA. I never said that DNA was not a language (but I would really want to dive into that question) nor did I dismiss anyone's example out of hand. If you can't honestly and accurately reflect what has been said then should we take your own statements seriously?JVL_{June 30, 2022
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Upright BiPed: That is not the claim (there are plenty of symbol systems that do not function like the gene system, but only the gene system and written language/mathematics function as they do). Could you give some examples so that I know what you're thinking. And, by the way, while you and I have clearly chosen to focus on written human languages I don't think Bornagain77 made that distinction. Would you feel different if the issue was with spoken human languages and DNA?JVL_{June 30, 2022
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I not seeing how describing protein synthesis refutes the claim that it is a language of some sort that the cell is using Again why is it not a programming language that biology uses to instruct cells to carry out specific functions and processes throughout the life cycle? Neurons have been found to break and form dna to code memory https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20026845-000-memories-may-be-stored-on-your-dna/ http://sciencebeta.com/neuron-dna-memory-formation/ https://medicalxpress.com/news/2015-04-neurons-constantly-rewrite-dna.html So your description of the biological process although good does nothing for your argument So why is it not a coding which evolved that life uses to instruct itself on multiple processesAaronS1978_{June 30, 2022
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AS78, stronger than analogy, instantiation. The selectively hyperskeptical denialism we see is a mark of desperation not to acknowledge the point. There is no reason why we should allow such a conclusion to be held hostage to denialism; here, by someone who confused Fortran [a high level language] for 1 and 0 machine language and plainly does not know whereof he speaks with such confidence. We should note that this marks a decisive vulnerability of Darwinism. KF PS, in doing development on the 6809, I used a two port memory and a SBC with cassette tape backing store; Manchester code IIRC. That was one step up from punched cards or paper tape. PPS, from Paley in Ch 2 on, it was recognised that a copy of a body of information is not the origin of said information, yet another hyperskeptical obfuscation. As for proteins and mRNA as template, first a template is a usually analogue information storage device, used with prong height it becomes digital, similar to prongs on a yale type lock's key. Second, the encoding -- as has been highlighted repeatedly and studiously ignored -- is on tRNA and how it is loaded on its CCA tip with the correct AA.kairosfocus_{June 30, 2022
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Language is used for communication and transmitting messages between one organism to the next as well as many other purposes DNA and RNA are used for communication within the cell and processing information...
Isn't there some dispute whether another copy of the same information is new or not? Messenger RNA is a complementary copy of part of the information held by the DNA in the genome produced by direct physical contact. Proteins are synthesized by ribosomes using that information in steps involving direct physical contact. There is no communication, no feedback, only templating.Fred Hickson_{June 29, 2022
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“Putting it to a vote was black humor. But the fact is using the words “code, coding, encoding, translating” etc when talking about DNA and the iconic process from DNA template to messenger RNA to protein is not a code in any analogous sense to language.” I read this I don’t see any reason why it’s not other then it’s not Language is used for communication and transmitting messages between one organism to the next as well as many other purposes DNA and RNA are used for communication within the cell and processing information It’s very analogous to programming languageAaronS1978_{June 29, 2022
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:) Who decides what letter is next(in DNA: A,G,T or C) if the chemical bonds don't favor one letter over another and the result of these letters is translated into an obvious function? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVvEZSKl8EM&t=300sLieutenant Commander Data_{June 29, 2022
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FH tries to excuse his trollish behavior by calling it 'black humor", and then he reiterates his false claim, "the fact is using the words “code, coding, encoding, translating” etc when talking about DNA and the iconic process from DNA template to messenger RNA to protein is not a code in any analogous sense to (human) language." But alas, all human languages, and especially programming languages created by humans, are based on intelligently deigned codes and, especially in the computer age, all human languages are subject to intelligently designed "coding, encoding, translating", and in the case of CAD cam "We have something (programming language) very analogous" to what is going on in the cell.
Stephen Meyer: it’s not the physical or chemical properties of those four digital characters, those four chemicals they’re called basis in the DNA molecule. It’s their specific arrangement in accord with a convention that directs the cell to build all the proteins and protein machines. We have something very analogous here in the Seattle area over at the Boeing plant. It is called CAD cam computer assisted design and manufacturer. We’ve got code in a machine that is sent to a translation device that converts that to a machine code, which in turn, then directs the construction of machinery to,, put the rivets,, the wing of a plane in just the right place. So we, in our own high tech world use information to manufacture things that’s what’s going on inside the cell.,,, https://stephencmeyer.org/t/douglas-axe/
In short, FH's repeated denial that the genetic code has no overlap whatsoever with human language is found to be a grossly false claim. I am shocked that anyone would even try to defend such a patently false claim. And indeed, in my experience, only Darwinian atheists would ever try to defend such obvious falsehoods that constantly, and repeatedly, pop up in their atheistic worldview.. To reiterate,
Basically, because of reductive materialism (and/or methodological naturalism), the atheistic materialist (who believes Darwinian evolution to be true) is forced to claim that he is merely a ‘neuronal illusion’ (Coyne, Dennett, etc..), who has the illusion of free will (Harris, Coyne), who has unreliable, (i.e. illusory), beliefs about reality (Plantinga), who has illusory perceptions of reality (Hoffman), who, since he has no real time empirical evidence substantiating his grandiose claims, must make up illusory “just so stories” with the illusory, and impotent, ‘designer substitute’ of natural selection (Behe, Gould, Sternberg), so as to ‘explain away’ the appearance (i.e. the illusion) of design (Crick, Dawkins), and who also must make up illusory meanings and purposes for his life since the hopelessness of the nihilism inherent in his atheistic worldview is simply too much for him to bear (Weikart), and who must also hold morality to be subjective and illusory since he has rejected God (Craig, Kreeft). Who, since beauty cannot be grounded within his materialistic worldview, must also hold beauty itself to be illusory (Darwin). Bottom line, nothing is truly real in the atheist’s worldview, least of all, beauty, morality, meaning and purposes for life.,,,
It would be hard to fathom a worldview more antagonistic to modern science, indeed more antagonistic to reality itself, than Atheistic materialism and/or methodological naturalism have turned out to be.
2 Corinthians 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
bornagain77_{June 29, 2022
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So what has led Fred Hickson to irrationally deny the plain scientific fact that the genetic code is a literal code, and to insanely want to put that scientific fact up for a vote?
Putting it to a vote was black humor. But the fact is using the words "code, coding, encoding, translating" etc when talking about DNA and the iconic process from DNA template to messenger RNA to protein is not a code in any analogous sense to language.Fred Hickson_{June 29, 2022
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I responded https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/at-evolution-news-gunter-bechly-repudiates-professor-daves-attacks-against-id/#comment-759576Fred Hickson_{June 29, 2022
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UB: If you feel your suggestion that an aaRS need only be made of one single type of amino acid is somehow problematic … you are certainly welcome to vacate that suggestion. Fred: Thanks and my apologies for misreading. 1 No I don’t suggest any biochemically active suite of proteins can be constructed from polymers consisting of a single aminoacid. 2 I do suggest that twenty aaRSs did not need to exist prior to proteins being incorporated into RNA World organisms. 3 I concede that wasn’t your question.
Okay, so I asked the original question on June 11th, now 18 days ago. Since that time, we have likely exchanged a couple thousand words as the question is kicked around. Now that all of that is out of the way, what is your answer to the question? *** you are welcome to answer that question on the original thread of you like, HEREUpright BiPed_{June 29, 2022
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BA77 at 83, No one wrote any sentences. They just pop into existence due to physics. No one is responsible for creating them. No one is responsible for creating life.relatd_{June 29, 2022
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F/N: On the OP, I found this from Haaretz: https://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/2022-03-24/ty-article/.premium/early-israelite-curse-inscription-found-on-mt-ebal/00000180-5b9b-dc66-a392-7fdbc7790000
Now an official curse has been found, engraved on a lead tablet that dates to the biblical age and had sat in the detritus of an excavation of Mt. Ebal for decades, the Associates for Biblical Research of Houston, Texas announced on Thursday . . . . Inscribed in proto-alphabetic writing also known as Sinaitic script or proto-Canaanite script, which dates to the Late Bronze Age, the hex text is early Israelite, the team claims. Consisting of 40 ancient proto-Sinaitic letters on a lead sheet that was subsequently folded, and could only to be read by tomographic scanning, the inscription reads: “Cursed, cursed, cursed - cursed by the God YHW. You will die cursed. Cursed you will surely die. Cursed by YHW – cursed, cursed, cursed.” The inscription does not leave much room for doubt that it was a curse. What it might mean for the interpretation of the finds at Mt. Ebal is another matter.
Mt Ebal, of course is the Mt of Cursing. What is interesting, is of course that we are seeing here, alphabetic script in the process of emerging from Egyptian Hieroglyphics, similar to inscriptions noted some years ago at mines in Sinai. Alphabetic writing and later alphanumeric script, uses string data structures, to store information in glyph sequences. These readily translate to binary codings and could translate to four state elements quite readily too. There will be a debate over dating, as Haaretz remarks on, but late Bronze age seems reasonable supportive of c 1400 BC. Of course, the old hypotheses that Moses could not have written as writing was not existing in his day is long since dead. The onward discussion is whether Hebrew text as emerging was in effect the root of the alphabetic script. KFkairosfocus_{June 29, 2022
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At 60 Martin_r references Perry Marshall's website, where Marshall summarizes the fact that the genetic code is a literal code.
Is DNA a Code? Summary: *Code is defined as the rules of communication between an encoder (a “writer” or “speaker”) and a decoder (a “reader” or “listener”) using agreed upon symbols. *DNA’s definition as a literal code (and not a figurative one) is nearly universal in the entire body of biological literature since the 1960’s. *DNA code has much in common with human language and computer languages *DNA transcription is an encoding / decoding mechanism isomorphic with Claude Shannon’s 1948 model: The sequence of base pairs is encoded into messenger RNA which is decoded into proteins. *Information theory terms and ideas applied to DNA are not metaphorical, but in fact quite literal in every way. In other words, the information theory argument for design is not based on analogy at all. It is direct application of mathematics to DNA, which by definition is a code. https://evo2.org/dna-atheists/dna-code/
And then directly after his summary, Marshall then further clarifies exactly what he means by code, i.e. "I define “Coded information” as a system of symbols used by an encoding and decoding mechanism, which transmits a message that is independent of the communication medium."
Please Define What You Mean By “Code.” This question hinges on the definition of “code” and whether it is metaphorical when applied to DNA or whether it is technically identical to its use in human language. Until this question is addressed, this is nothing more than an empty assertion. Mr. Marshall is begging the question until he provides a definition of “code” that circumscribes his examples but rules out stuff like the other examples [bee waggle dances, bird songs, whale songs, ant communication by pheromone]. I define “Coded information” as a system of symbols used by an encoding and decoding mechanism, which transmits a message that is independent of the communication medium. Examples of code include English, Chinese, computer languages, music, mating calls and radio signals. Codes always involve a system of symbols that represent ideas or plans. Other examples include, yes, Bee waggle dances. Bird songs. Whale songs. And ant communication by pheromone. Since all the above are derivatives of DNA, my challenge to naturalists is to cite a single example of coded information that occurs naturally – outside the realm of life, outside the realm of DNA. All you need is one example. DNA is not merely a molecule with a pattern; it is a code, a language, and an information storage mechanism.”: FALSE: – DNA is only analogous to code. The book Information Theory, Evolution and the Origin of Life is written by Hubert Yockey, the foremost living specialist in bioinformatics. The publisher is Cambridge University press. Yockey rigorously demonstrates that the coding process in DNA is identical to the coding process and mathematical definitions used in Electrical Engineering. This is not subjective, it is not debatable or even controversial. It is a brute fact:
And despite the fact that the genetic code is a literal code and this fact is "not subjective, it is not debatable or even controversial. It is a brute fact", at 61, (directly after Martin referenced Marshall's website at 60), Fred Hickson, against all reason, then claims,
FH: "DNA is not a code, neither literally nor figuratively. Shall we have a vote?"
Does Fred really want to put a brute scientific fact up for a vote? Perhaps Fred now also wants to put the speed of light up for a vote? In short, FH's response to Martin is simply insane! As Paxx observed at 80, this completely disingenuous tactic by Fred of denying the scientific fact that the genetic code is a literal code, is trolling purely for trolling's sake,
Paxx: "It’s adorable when someone denies that a code is a code. Troll. No reason to feed the trolls."
Moreover, (to reiterate what has been mentioned previously in this thread), Marshall's challenge to atheistic naturalists to, "cite a single example of coded information that occurs naturally – outside the realm of life, outside the realm of DNA. All you need is one example", is not an empty challenge but Marshall has put money where his mouth is. Specifically, Marshall has, fairly recently, set up a 10 million dollar OOL prize for the first person who can demonstrate a single example of coded information that occurs naturally, by unguided material processes, and which was not created by an intelligent mind.
Artificial Intelligence + Origin of Life Prize, $10 Million USD Where did life and the genetic code come from? Can the answer build superior AI? The #1 mystery in science now has a $10 million prize. Excerpt: The Evolution 2.0 Prize focuses these issues down to one central question: How do you get from chemicals to code? How do you get a code without designing one? Perry Marshall and private equity investment group Natural Code LLC have issued a technology prize to find a person who can solve this. https://www.herox.com/evolution2.0
I might add that no less than George Church, Denis Noble, and Michael Ruse are the judges for the 10 million dollar prize. So what has led Fred Hickson to irrationally deny the plain scientific fact that the genetic code is a literal code, and to insanely want to put that scientific fact up for a vote? Well the answer to that question is that Fred is an atheist, and as an atheist he is committed to the naturalistic/materialistic worldview in which everything must be reduced to purely materialistic/naturalistic explanations. Intelligent agents with immaterial minds and free will, (who are able to intelligently design codes from scratch whenever they so desire to do so), are simply a fiction in Fred's atheistic worldview. In fact, Fred's atheistic worldview, via its denial of the reality of free will, forces him into the insane position of denying that he has ever personally written a single sentence in his life, (much less that anyone has ever intelligently created a code) As Paul Nelson notes, if atheistic naturalism were actually true, then "You didn’t write your email to me. Physics did, and informed you of that event after the fact.",,
Do You Like SETI? Fine, Then Let’s Dump Methodological Naturalism Paul Nelson - September 24, 2014 Excerpt: Assessing the Damage MN (Methodological Naturalism) Does to Freedom of Inquiry Epistemology — how we know — and ontology — what exists — are both affected by methodological naturalism. If we say, "We cannot know that a mind caused x," laying down an epistemological boundary defined by MN, then our ontology comprising real causes for x won’t include minds. MN entails an ontology in which minds are the consequence of physics, and thus, can only be placeholders for a more detailed causal account in which physics is the only (ultimate) actor. You didn’t write your email to me. Physics did, and informed you of that event after the fact. "That’s crazy," you reply, "I certainly did write my email." Okay, then — to what does the pronoun "I" in that sentence refer? Your personal agency; your mind. Are you supernatural?,,, You are certainly an intelligent cause, however, and your intelligence does not collapse into physics. (If it does collapse — i.e., can be reduced without explanatory loss — we haven’t the faintest idea how, which amounts to the same thing.) To explain the effects you bring about in the world — such as your email, a real pattern — we must refer to you as a unique agent. https://evolutionnews.org/2014/09/do_you_like_set/
And as George Ellis explains, without free will, Einstein "could not have been responsible for the theory of relativity – it would have been a product of lower level processes but not of an intelligent mind choosing between possible options."
Physicist George Ellis on the importance of philosophy and free will - July 27, 2014 Excerpt: And free will?: Horgan: Einstein, in the following quote, seemed to doubt free will: “If the moon, in the act of completing its eternal way around the Earth, were gifted with self-consciousness, it would feel thoroughly convinced that it was traveling its way of its own accord…. So would a Being, endowed with higher insight and more perfect intelligence, watching man and his doings, smile about man’s illusion that he was acting according to his own free will.” Do you believe in free will? Ellis: Yes. Einstein is perpetuating the belief that all causation is bottom up. This simply is not the case, as I can demonstrate with many examples from sociology, neuroscience, physiology, epigenetics, engineering, and physics. Furthermore if Einstein did not have free will in some meaningful sense, then he could not have been responsible for the theory of relativity – it would have been a product of lower level processes but not of an intelligent mind choosing between possible options. I find it very hard to believe this to be the case – indeed it does not seem to make any sense. Physicists should pay attention to Aristotle’s four forms of causation – if they have the free will to decide what they are doing. If they don’t, then why waste time talking to them? They are then not responsible for what they say. https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/physicist-george-ellis-on-the-importance-of-philosophy-and-free-will/
Needless to say, denying that you are responsible for what you write, and denying that Einstein was responsible for the theory of relativity, but instead holding that the laws of physics wrote your sentences for you, and that the laws of physics discovered themselves, is an insane position for anyone to hold. But alas, that insane position is exactly what atheistic naturalism forces atheists like Fred into claiming. Much more could be said about the overall topic of 'information', (and specifically about how advances in science have now established the physical reality of 'immaterial' information), but suffice it for now to simply note that the atheist's naturalistic worldview is completely insane in that it denies, (like the denial that the genetic code is a literal code), the reality of many things that everyone, including atheists themselves, assume to be undeniably real. To repeat what I stated earlier in this thread,
Basically, because of reductive materialism (and/or methodological naturalism), the atheistic materialist (who believes Darwinian evolution to be true) is forced to claim that he is merely a ‘neuronal illusion’ (Coyne, Dennett, etc..), who has the illusion of free will (Harris, Coyne), who has unreliable, (i.e. illusory), beliefs about reality (Plantinga), who has illusory perceptions of reality (Hoffman), who, since he has no real time empirical evidence substantiating his grandiose claims, must make up illusory “just so stories” with the illusory, and impotent, ‘designer substitute’ of natural selection (Behe, Gould, Sternberg), so as to ‘explain away’ the appearance (i.e. the illusion) of design (Crick, Dawkins), and who also must make up illusory meanings and purposes for his life since the hopelessness of the nihilism inherent in his atheistic worldview is simply too much for him to bear (Weikart), and who must also hold morality to be subjective and illusory since he has rejected God (Craig, Kreeft). Who, since beauty cannot be grounded within his materialistic worldview, must also hold beauty itself to be illusory (Darwin). Bottom line, nothing is truly real in the atheist’s worldview, least of all, beauty, morality, meaning and purposes for life.,,,
It would be hard to fathom a worldview more antagonistic to modern science, indeed more antagonistic to reality itself, than Atheistic materialism and/or methodological naturalism have turned out to be.
2 Corinthians 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
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Folks, the genetic code for protein synthesis is a four state per base digital code, and three bases give sixty four states giving room for stop elements and some redundancy. The scheme has been used to store general digital information, there is no doubt as to its digital character. Also, some normal stop codons have been reprogrammed to add further AAs not in the usual run of 20. Lastly there are 20+ dialects, further implying high contingency. It is well known and readily accessible that once things are aligned in a ribosome start is load methionine, then there are further steps, then halt on one of three stop codons. Those who try to twist this into pretzels simply show their want of basic reasonableness. KF PS, Just to show, here is Wiki's opening, as accessed just now, I don't know if they will try to get rid of the telling words I am about to highlight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_biosynthesis
Protein biosynthesis (or protein synthesis) is a core biological process, occurring inside cells, balancing the loss of cellular proteins (via degradation or export) through the production of new proteins. Proteins perform a number of critical functions as enzymes, structural proteins or hormones. Protein synthesis is a very similar process for both prokaryotes and eukaryotes but there are some distinct differences.[1] Protein synthesis can be divided broadly into two phases - transcription and translation. During transcription, a section of DNA encoding a protein, known as a gene, is converted into a template molecule called messenger RNA (mRNA). This conversion is carried out by enzymes, known as RNA polymerases, in the nucleus of the cell.[2] In eukaryotes, this mRNA is initially produced in a premature form (pre-mRNA) which undergoes post-transcriptional modifications to produce mature mRNA. The mature mRNA is exported from the cell nucleus via nuclear pores to the cytoplasm of the cell for translation to occur. During translation, the mRNA is read by ribosomes which use the nucleotide sequence of the mRNA to determine the sequence of amino acids. The ribosomes catalyze the formation of covalent peptide bonds between the encoded amino acids to form a polypeptide chain. Following translation the polypeptide chain must fold to form a functional protein; for example, to function as an enzyme the polypeptide chain must fold correctly to produce a functional active site. In order to adopt a functional three-dimensional (3D) shape, the polypeptide chain must first form a series of smaller underlying structures called secondary structures. The polypeptide chain in these secondary structures then folds to produce the overall 3D tertiary structure. Once correctly folded, the protein can undergo further maturation through different post-translational modifications. Post-translational modifications can alter the protein's ability to function, where it is located within the cell (e.g. cytoplasm or nucleus) and the protein's ability to interact with other proteins.[3] Protein biosynthesis has a key role in disease as changes and errors in this process, through underlying DNA mutations or protein misfolding, are often the underlying causes of a disease. DNA mutations change the subsequent mRNA sequence, which then alters the mRNA encoded amino acid sequence. Mutations can cause the polypeptide chain to be shorter by generating a stop sequence [--> halting] which causes early termination of translation. Alternatively, a mutation in the mRNA sequence changes the specific amino acid encoded at that position in the polypeptide chain. This amino acid change can impact the protein's ability to function or to fold correctly.[4] Misfolded proteins are often implicated in disease as improperly folded proteins have a tendency to stick together to form dense protein clumps. These clumps are linked to a range of diseases, often neurological, including Alzheimer's disease and Parkinson's disease.[5]
PPS, Oh it's analogies all the way down. Nope, we are plainly dealing with instantiation. PPPS, Oh human languages. Nope, the proper distinction is natural vs artificial languages, and the latter not only include 6809 machine code or IBM 370 machine code or protein code, but also Esperanto and Volapuk, or even basic English. ART-ificial, as in specifically designed for a process through intelligently directed configuration.kairosfocus_{June 29, 2022
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We await the paper. It seems that something leaked and the discoverers were forced to do some sort of presser to get ahead of the buzz. That speaks to where we have gone, even in academia.kairosfocus_{June 29, 2022
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It's adorable when someone denies that a code is a code. Troll. No reason to feed the trolls. But, yeah, you guys keep pounding your head against the troll, as if. A little amusing, but yeah, a little pathetic. Paxx P.S. this website is SLOW. Is there something I can do to help?Paxx_{June 29, 2022
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