Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

L&FP, 63: Do design thinkers, theists and the like “always” make bad arguments because they are “all” ignorant, stupid, insane or wicked?

Categories
Logic and Reason
rhetoric
Share
Facebook
Twitter/X
LinkedIn
Flipboard
Print
Email

Dawkins’ barbed blanket dismissiveness comes up far too often in discussions of the design inference and related themes. Rarely, explicitly, most often by implication of a far too commonly seen no concessions, selectively hyperskeptical policy that objectors to design too often manifest. It is time to set this straight.

First, we need to highlight fallacious, crooked yardstick thinking (as exposed by naturally straight and upright plumb-lines). And yes, that classical era work, the Bible, is telling:

Notice, a pivotal point here, is self-evident truths. Things, similar to 2 + 3 = 5:

Notoriously, Winston Smith in 1984 is put on the rack to break his mind to conform to The Party’s double-think. He is expected to think 2 + 2 = whatever The Party needs at the moment, suppressing the last twisted answer, believing that was always the case, while simultaneously he must know that manifestly 2 + 2 = 4 on pain of instant absurdity. This is of course a toy example but it exposes the way crooked yardstick thinking leads to chaos:

Of Lemmings, marches of folly and cliffs of self-falsifying absurdity . . .

(Yes, real lemmings do not act like that. But, humans . . . that’s a whole other story.)

So, now, let us turn to a recent barbed remark by one of our frequent objectors and my reply, laying out a frame of thought and inviting correction — dodged, of course:

KF, 120 in the Foundations thread: [[It is now clear that SG is unwilling to substantially back up the one liner insinuation he made at 84 above, try making a good argument. Accordingly, let me respond in outline, for record, to the general case, that people like us are ignorant, stupid, insane or wicked and the associated zero concessions, selectively hyperskeptical dismissiveness policy. Here, I will show the rational responsibility of the design inference and related ideas, views and approaches, for record and reference:

I will use steps of thought:

1: Reason, in general: Notice, supporters and fellow travellers of evolutionary materialistic scientism undermine the responsible, rational freedom required for reason to be credible. They tend to discount and discredit objectors, but in fact their arguments and assertions are self-referentially incoherent, especially reduction of mind to computationalism on a wetware substrate. Reppert is right to point out, following Haldane and others:

. . . let us suppose that brain state A [–> notice, state of a wetware, electrochemically operated computational substrate], which is token identical to the thought that all men are mortal, and brain state B, which is token identical to the thought that Socrates is a man, together cause the belief [–> concious, perceptual state or disposition] that Socrates is mortal. It isn’t enough for rational inference that these events be those beliefs, it is also necessary that the causal transaction be in virtue of the content of those thoughts . . . [But] if naturalism is true, then the propositional content is irrelevant to the causal transaction that produces the conclusion, and [so] we do not have a case of rational inference. In rational inference, as Lewis puts it, one thought causes another thought not by being, but by being seen to be, the ground for it. But causal transactions in the brain occur in virtue of the brain’s being in a particular type of state that is relevant to physical causal transactions.

2: This extends to Marx’s class/cultural conditioning, to Freud’s potty training etc, to Skinner’s operant conditioning , to claims my genes made me do it, and many more. So, irrationality and undermining of the credibility of reason are a general issue for such supporters and fellow travellers, it is unsurprising to see projection to the despised other (a notorious defence mechanism) and linked failure to engage self referentiality.

3: First principles of right reason: Classically, the core of reason starts with distinct identity, excluded middle, non contradiction. Something x is what it is i/l/o its core characteristics, nothing can be both x and not x in the same sense and circumstances, any y in W = {x| ~x} will be x, ~x, not both or neither. And more. Claimed quantum counter examples etc actually are rooted in reasoning that relies on such. And yes, there have been enough objections that this has come up and is in UD’s Weak Argument Correctives. We leave it to objectors like SG to tell us whether they acknowledge such first principles of right reason: _______ and explain why ________ .

4: Self evidence: There are arguments that, once we have enough experience and maturity to understand [a sometimes big if], will be seen as true, as necessarily true and as true on pain of immediate absurdities on attempted denial. That error exists is a good case in point, and if one is able to see that the attempt to deny objectivity of knowledge for a given reasonably distinct field of thought such as morals or history or reality [metaphysics], or the physical world, or external reality, or in general, etc, one is claiming to objectively know something about that field and so refutes oneself.

5: self referential incoherence and question begging: We just saw an example of how arguments and arguers can include themselves in the zone of reference of an argument in ways that undermine it, often by implying a contradiction. Such arguments defeat themselves. Question begging is different, it assumes, suggests or imposes what should be shown and for which there are responsible alternatives. Arguments can be question begging, and then may turn out to be self refuting.

6: Deduction, induction, abduction (inference to the best [current] explanation [IBE]) and weak-form knowledge: Deduction uses logical validity to chain from givens to conclusions, where if givens are so and the chain valid, conclusions must also be true. Absent errors of reasoning, the debate rapidly becomes one over why the givens. Induction, modern sense, is about degree of support for conclusions i/l/o evidence of various kinds as opposed to demonstration, statistics, history, science, etc are common contexts. Abduction, especially IBE, compares live option alternatives and what they imply, on factual adequacy, coherence and balance of explanatory power, to choose the best explanation so far. In this context weak sense common knowledge is warranted, credibly true (so, reliable) belief. Which, is open to correction or revision and extension.

7: Worldviews context: Why accept A? B. But why B? C, etc. We see that we face infinite regress, or circularity or finitely remote first plausibles . . . which, frame our faith points . . . as we set out to understand our world. Infinite regress is impossible to traverse in reasoning or in cause effect steps, so we set it aside, we are forced to have finitely remote start points to reasoning and believing, warranting and knowing — first plausibles that define our views of the world. Thus, we all live by faith, the question is which, why; so, whether it is rational/reasonable and responsible. Where, too, all serious worldview options bristle with difficulties, hence the point that philosophy is the discipline that studies hard, basic questions. Question begging circles are a challenge, answered through comparative difficulties across factual adequacy, coherence and balance of explanatory power: elegantly simple, neither ad hoc nor simplistic.

[Let’s add an illustration:]

A summary of why we end up with foundations for our worldviews, whether or not we would phrase the matter that way}

[or in Aristotle’s words:]

8: Failure of evolutionary materialistic scientism and fellow traveller views: It will be evident already, that, while institutionally and culturally dominant, evolutionary materialistic scientism and fellow travellers are profoundly and irretrievably incoherent. Yes, a view backed by institutions, power brokers in the academy, the education system and the media can be irretrievably, fatally cracked from its roots.

9: Logic of being (and of structure and quantity), also possible worlds: Ontology and her grand child, Mathematics, grow out of core philosophy, particularly distinct identity and consideration of possible worlds. A possible world, w, is a sufficiently complete description of how our world or another conceivable or even actual world is or may be; i.e. a cluster of core, world describing propositions. In that context, a candidate being or entity or even state of affairs, c, can be impossible of being [e.g. a Euclidean plane square circle] or possible. Possible beings may be contingent [actual in at least one possible world but not all] or necessary [present in every possible world]. We and fires are contingent, dependent for existence on many independent, prior factors; what begins or may cease of existence is contingent. Necessary beings are best seen as part of the fabric or framework for this or any possible world. We can show that distinct identity implies two-ness, thence 0, 1, 2. Ponder, W = {A|~A}, the partition is empty, 0, A is a unit, ~A is a complex unit, so we see 2. So, onward via von Neumann’s construction, the counting numbers N. Thence, Z, Q, R, C, R* etc in any w. This is what gives core Mathematics its universal power.

10: The basic credibility of the design inference: of course, we routinely recognise that many things show reliable signs of intelligently directed configuration as key cause, i.e. design. For example, objectors to the design inference often issue copious, complex text in English, beyond 500 to 1,000 bits of complexity. In the 70’s Orgel and Wicken identified a distinct and quantifiable phenomenon, functionally specific, complex organisation and/or associated information, which I often abbreviate FSCO/I. Organisation is there as things like a fishing reel [my favourite, e.g. the ABU 6500 CT] or a watch [Paley, do not overlook his self replicating watch thought exercise in Ch 2]

or an oil refinery or a computer program [including machine code]

Petroleum refinery block diagram illustrating FSCO/I in a process-flow system

or the cell’s metabolic process-flow network [including protein synthesis]

[with:]

Step by step protein synthesis in action, in the ribosome, based on the sequence of codes in the mRNA control tape (Courtesy, Wikipedia and LadyofHats)

[and:]

all can be described in a suitably compact string of Y/N questions, structured through description languages such as AutoCAD. The inference posits that, with trillions of cases under our belt, reliably, FSCO/I or its generalisation, CSI, will be signs of design as key cause. The controversies, as may be readily seen, are not for want of evidence or inability to define or quantify, but because this challenges the dominant evolutionary materialism and fellow travellers. Which, of course, long since failed through irretrievable self referential incoherence.
_____________________

So, challenge: let SG and/or others show where the above fails to be rational and responsible, if they can__________________ Prediction, aside from mere disagreement and/or dismissiveness, assertions, or the trifecta fallacy of red herrings, led away to strawmen soaked in ad hominems and set alight to cloud, confuse, poison and polarise the atmosphere, they will not be able to sustain a case for general failure to be rational and responsible.]]

The good argument challenge is duly open for response. END

U/D, Nov 4: As it seems certain objectors want to attack the descriptive metaphor, islands of function amidst seas of non function, let me put up here a couple of infographics I used some years ago to discuss this concept. But first, as the primary contexts have to do with protein synthesis and OoL, let me first put up Vuk Nicolic’s video illustrating just what is required for protein synthesis:

. . . and Dr James Tour’s summary presentation on OoL synthesis challenges:

Now, this is my framework for discussing islands of function:

. . . and, on associated active information:

Thus, we can discuss the Orgel-Wicken functionally specific, complex organisation and associated information concept, FSCO/I, similarly:

We see here the needle in a haystack, blind search challenge and how it is dominated by not the hill climbing on fitness functions that is commonly discussed but by the issue of arriving at shorelines of first function. Obviously and primarily, for origin of cell based life [cf. Tour] but also to move from that first unicellular body plan to others. Where, we can observe too that even within an island of function, incremental changes will be challenged by intervening valleys, tending to trap on a given peak or plateau.

But, what of the thesis, that there is in effect a readily accessible first functionality, incrementally connected to all major body plans, allowing unlimited, branching tree of life body plan level macro evolution?

The Smithsonian’s tree of life model, note the root in OOL

Obviously, this architecture implies such continuity. The first problem, obviously is the root and the plethora of speculations and debatable or even dubious syntheses that have been made into icons of the grand evolutionary narrative and taught as effective fact, already tell us something is wrong. A second clue is how the diagram itself implies that transitional forms should utterly dominate the space, with terminal tips being far less common. On basic statistics, we should then expect an abundance of these transitions or “links.” The phrase, missing link, tells the tale instead.

For, the trade secret of paleontology, is the utter rarity of such forms, to the point where punctuated equilibria was a major school intended to explain that general absence. Where, Darwin, notoriously, noted the gaps but expected and predicted that on wider investigations they would go away. But now, after 150 years of searching, billions of fossils seen in situ, millions in museum back office drawers [only a relative few can be displayed] and over a quarter of a million fossil species, the pattern of gaps is very much still here, hot denials and dismissals notwithstanding. That is especially true of the Cambrian fossil life form revolution, where the major current body plans for animals pop up with nary an intermediate. So much so, that there have been significant efforts to make it disappear, obfuscating its significance.

We also have molecular islands of function, starting with protein fold domains. Thousands, scattered across the AA sequence space, no easy path connecting them. Even just homochirality soon accumulates into a serious search space challenge as molecules are complex and mirror image handedness is not energetically enforced, why racemic forms, 50-50 mixes of left and right handed molecules are what we tend to get in lab syntheses. This then gets more complicated where there are multiple isomers as Tour discusses.

In short, a real issue not a readily dismissible notion without significant empirical support.

And so forth.

U/D2 Nov 4: I just found where I had an image from p. 11 NFL, so observe:

ID researcher William A Dembski, NFL, p.11 on possibilities, target zones and events

Where, we can further illustrate the beach of function issue:

And, some remarks:

U/D 3 Nov 7: The all-revealing Eugenics Conference Logo from 1912 and 1921 showing how it was seen as a capstone of ever so many sciences and respected domains of knowledge, especially statistics, genetics, biology and medicine, even drawing on religion, with, politics, law, education, psychology, mental testing and sociology . . . menacingly . . . also being in the roots:

“Eugenics is the self-direction of human evolution”: Logo from the Second International Eugenics Conference, 1921, depicting Eugenics as a tree which unites a variety of different fields.

U/D 4, Nov 10: A reminder on cosmological fine tuning, from Luke Barnes:

Barnes: “What if we tweaked just two of the fundamental constants? This figure shows what the universe would look like if the strength of the strong nuclear force (which holds atoms together) and the value of the fine-structure constant (which represents the strength of the electromagnetic force between elementary particles) were higher or lower than they are in this universe. The small, white sliver represents where life can use all the complexity of chemistry and the energy of stars. Within that region, the small “x” marks the spot where those constants are set in our own universe.” (HT: New Atlantis)

U/D 5, Nov 12: As there is dismissiveness of the textual, coded information stored in DNA, it is necessary to show here a page clip from Lehninger, as a case in point of what should not even be a debated point:

For record.

U/D 6, Nov 14: The per aspect design inference explanatory filter shows how right in the core design inference, alternative candidate causes and their observational characteristics are highlighted:

Explanatory Filter

Again, for record.

Comments
U/D 4, a reminder on fine tuning.kairosfocus
November 10, 2022
November
11
Nov
10
10
2022
11:23 AM
11
11
23
AM
PDT
JVL, until you have a solidly empirical observation based path for chemicals in a Darwin pond or the like to spontaneously, blindly, sans intelligent direction, create -- take whatever intermediate steps you can observationally and thermodynamically justify -- a metabolising, encapsulated, smart gated automaton that uses coded algorithms for NC molecule assembly machines and has a built in self replication facility, you do not even get to the root of your tree of life. This then cuts off further progress. And if instead we recognise signs of design at the level of the cell [language, algorithms for example] then it is reasonable to similarly recognise such signs across the span of body plans to include our own. All of this is riding on signs of design of a cosmos fine tuned in ways that support such C-Chem, aqueous medium, cell based life. KFkairosfocus
November 10, 2022
November
11
Nov
10
10
2022
11:18 AM
11
11
18
AM
PDT
Jerry, hopping on a band wagon to follow what has a critical mass of popularity is an old, old problem. The idea that some seemingly simple explanation goes viral independent of its merits is a similar issue. But in either case, the need to address substance is still there. It should have long been obvious that specific organisation to achieve complex function will require the right parts matched to each other, properly assembled and coupled, as say the assembly line illustrates. The refusal to acknowledge generality and naturalness of this point is clearly due to injection of the evolution magic word exception. Ironically, even the objections, as English text using ASCII characters are a case in point. That there is precisely nil evidence of a simple path to a metabolising, encapsulated, smart gated automaton with self replication does not faze such. And Dr Tour's detailed critiques of the state of research on synthesis will be equally brushed aside on any available excuse. Sad, but this is where we have now reached. KFkairosfocus
November 10, 2022
November
11
Nov
10
10
2022
11:09 AM
11
11
09
AM
PDT
Q, looks like you may have a point. I notice but little engagement of pivotal substance as reported since 184 to 185. KFkairosfocus
November 10, 2022
November
11
Nov
10
10
2022
10:58 AM
10
10
58
AM
PDT
Asauber: JVL is trying to convince you there never was a Creature A or a Creature B to make comparisons with. I'm saying the dividing line is fuzzy. Yes. Forever unidentifiable. We weren't there and all we can work with is the fossils we have. And some educated guesses. Of course not. What works is a fairy-tale with perpetually coagulating blobs. Perhaps you'd like to answer some questions regarding your alternate hypothesis? Probably not.JVL
November 10, 2022
November
11
Nov
10
10
2022
10:56 AM
10
10
56
AM
PDT
JVL at 355, Good bye.relatd
November 10, 2022
November
11
Nov
10
10
2022
10:53 AM
10
10
53
AM
PDT
PS, as for your denial of Mr Dawkins' rhetorical intent -- and impact -- I suggest you examine his own remarks as are cited in 184. KFkairosfocus
November 10, 2022
November
11
Nov
10
10
2022
10:53 AM
10
10
53
AM
PDT
Relatd: Apparently, I can’t give you the answers you’re looking for. Good bye. Nice cowardly answer. You’ve seen the so-called Tree of Life? Your ancestor was a fish? One of your ancestors lived in the oceans. So what?JVL
November 10, 2022
November
11
Nov
10
10
2022
10:51 AM
10
10
51
AM
PDT
JVL, all you have to do to confirm is go to 185 above. If you refuse to see that complex systems made up of many parts working together to achieve function require the right parts, in correct arrangements, properly coupled to work, and so are tuned to work, I cannot help you, you are in denial of manifest facts. Such constraints naturally mean tight constraints on configuration. Beyond, there are many more ways to clump at random and even far more yet to scatter; of course, function is undermined. Where, from Paley's 2nd chapter on, it was known that additional self replication requires further exacting complexity. In the case of Weasel, it is seen that Mr Dawkins did undisclosed tuning to get his results. The onward examples from EIL parallel that. KFkairosfocus
November 10, 2022
November
11
Nov
10
10
2022
10:51 AM
10
10
51
AM
PDT
"That is not how it works." Of course not. What works is a fairy-tale with perpetually coagulating blobs. Andrewasauber
November 10, 2022
November
11
Nov
10
10
2022
10:43 AM
10
10
43
AM
PDT
SG at 350, You've seen the so-called Tree of Life? Your ancestor was a fish?relatd
November 10, 2022
November
11
Nov
10
10
2022
10:41 AM
10
10
41
AM
PDT
Once again . . . To identify typical trollbot responses, subject them to the following tests: 1. Try applying them to any person discussing any topic. See whether they’re generic enough to fit. 2. See whether they contain any new supporting evidence or whether they’re simply unsupported assertions. 3. See whether they’re inflammatory or gross exaggerations designed to provoke a similar response. 4. Assess the “signal to noise ratio” of cogent logic to vacuous emotion. JVL @337,
NO ONE ever claimed that random mutations alone could account for developed life as we see it on Earth. Why are you attacking something that no one ever said?
It's important to understand the terms your using in a more scientific context. Here's evolutionary randomness as explained on a University of California Berkeley website:
random Unpredictable in some way. Mutations are “random” in the sense that the sort of mutation that occurs cannot generally be predicted based upon the needs of the organism. However, this does not imply that all mutations are equally likely to occur or that mutations happen without any physical cause. Indeed, some regions of the genome are more likely to sustain mutations than others, and various physical causes (e.g., radiation) are known to cause particular types of mutations. https://evolution.berkeley.edu/glossary/random/
Mutations are random The mechanisms of evolution — like natural selection and genetic drift — work with the random variation generated by mutation. Factors in the environment are thought to influence the rate of mutation but are not generally thought to influence the direction of mutation. For example, exposure to harmful chemicals may increase the mutation rate, but will not cause more mutations that make the organism resistant to those chemicals. In this respect, mutations are random — whether a particular mutation happens or not is generally unrelated to how useful that mutation would be. https://evolution.berkeley.edu/mutations-are-random/
variation Differences in genes, traits, or behaviors among members of a population, which may result in differences in reproductive success. When variation is genetic in origin, it may be acted upon by natural selection. https://evolution.berkeley.edu/glossary/variation/
natural selection Differential survival or reproduction of different genotypes in a population leading to changes in the gene frequencies of a population. The conditions required for the operation of evolution by natural selection include variation, a system of heredity, differential reproduction, and time. For a more detailed explanation, see our resource on natural selection in Evolution 101. https://evolution.berkeley.edu/glossary/natural-selection/
So, I hope you can understand the primary factors in the theory of evolution and that it begins with random mutation. However, there's much more to the subject, including - The number of identical changes required for fixing a variation in a population. - The maximum rate of random mutations. - The estimated reproductive advantage of organisms with a particular mutation over those without it. If you think you know how evolution works, then you'll know the currently accepted ranges of the above three factors. Please note that I've provided links and references rather than unsupported assertions, vacuous accusations, or emotional outbursts. -QQuerius
November 10, 2022
November
11
Nov
10
10
2022
10:40 AM
10
10
40
AM
PDT
Relatd: Can you give me an exact date, plus/minus 100 years, when creature A turned into creature B? If there were mutations, they were all guided.
If you had an example of an individual organism from every generation from a billion years ago to yourself, there would be no individual point where you could say that species A became species B. That is not how it works. The fact that you would ask this type of question says more about your ignorance of evolution than it does about the flaws of evolutionary theory.Sir Giles
November 10, 2022
November
11
Nov
10
10
2022
10:38 AM
10
10
38
AM
PDT
Evolution teaches humans and apes had a ‘common ancestor.’ Relatd. Yes. Forever unidentifiable. Andrewasauber
November 10, 2022
November
11
Nov
10
10
2022
10:36 AM
10
10
36
AM
PDT
Andrew at 347, Evolution teaches humans and apes had a 'common ancestor.'relatd
November 10, 2022
November
11
Nov
10
10
2022
10:32 AM
10
10
32
AM
PDT
"No because it’s all a sliding continuity scale." JVL is trying to convince you there never was a Creature A or a Creature B to make comparisons with. Sure JVL. Whatever you say. Andrewasauber
November 10, 2022
November
11
Nov
10
10
2022
10:31 AM
10
10
31
AM
PDT
JVL at 345, Apparently, I can't give you the answers you're looking for. Good bye.relatd
November 10, 2022
November
11
Nov
10
10
2022
10:31 AM
10
10
31
AM
PDT
Relatd: Can you give me an exact date, plus/minus 100 years, when creature A turned into creature B? If there were mutations, they were all guided. No because it's all a sliding continuity scale. Your essentialist view is not correct, new forms don't 'snap' into existence. If there were mutations, they were all guided. So COVID, measles, polio, ebola, malaria, rabies, sickle cell disease, HIV . . . all intentionally created? Why?JVL
November 10, 2022
November
11
Nov
10
10
2022
10:25 AM
10
10
25
AM
PDT
JVL at 343, Can you give me an exact date, plus/minus 100 years, when creature A turned into creature B? If there were mutations, they were all guided.relatd
November 10, 2022
November
11
Nov
10
10
2022
10:11 AM
10
10
11
AM
PDT
Relatd: Life is designed by an Intelligence? Yes. Okay. Was it all front-loaded or have there been a lot of tweaks along the way? If you think there have been lots of tweaks along the way can you point to a specific tweak? Is there a way to distinguish between 'guided' mutations and random mutations? Jerry has said that mutations only affect genomes not morphology. Do you agree? (I have asked him several times where he thinks morphological changes are stored or created but he's avoided addressing the issue he himself brought up.)JVL
November 10, 2022
November
11
Nov
10
10
2022
10:03 AM
10
10
03
AM
PDT
JVL at 341, My "smug superiority"? You enjoy labeling people? Here comes the bluntness: Evolution as advertised? No. Life is designed by an Intelligence? Yes.relatd
November 10, 2022
November
11
Nov
10
10
2022
09:56 AM
9
09
56
AM
PDT
Relatd & Jerry: You both know very well I have asked you both questions trying to understand your beliefs and views that you have both completely ignored. Your smug superiority is nothing but disingenuous ignorance.JVL
November 10, 2022
November
11
Nov
10
10
2022
09:37 AM
9
09
37
AM
PDT
I wrote on another post that a concept called the “Availability Cascade” explains most of the comments here and generally everywhere. Beliefs in natural Evolution is the perfect example.jerry
November 10, 2022
November
11
Nov
10
10
2022
08:37 AM
8
08
37
AM
PDT
JVL at 337, A nice imitation of the angry young man. Fair warning: My multiple sock launcher has a lock on your position.relatd
November 10, 2022
November
11
Nov
10
10
2022
08:37 AM
8
08
37
AM
PDT
SG at 335, What truth? All JVL wants to talk about is unguided evolution. That's it. Nothing else. No 'hands across the aisle' for him. Go to his barricade. Written on one side: Evo-lotion forever!relatd
November 10, 2022
November
11
Nov
10
10
2022
08:26 AM
8
08
26
AM
PDT
Querius: These are typical trollbot responses and here’s how one can tell: What about the reponses of people like you and Jerry; people who ask questions, belittle whatever response they get and then don't even make an attempt to answer questions put to them? What do you think about people like that? You might also be interested in this segment about the mathematical impossibility of random mutations resulting in design, which I just stumbled across. NO ONE ever claimed that random mutations alone could account for developed life as we see it on Earth. Why are you attacking something that no one ever said? Because it makes you feel better? Just a helpful hint: attacking something that no one ever said just makes you look like a fool.JVL
November 10, 2022
November
11
Nov
10
10
2022
08:21 AM
8
08
21
AM
PDT
@334 & 335, These are typical trollbot responses and here's how one can tell: 1. Try applying them to any person discussing any topic.See whether they're generic enough to fit. 2. See whether they contain any new supporting evidence or whether they're simply unsupported assertions. 3. See whether they're inflammatory or gross exaggerations designed to provoke a similar response. 4. Assess the "signal to noise ratio" of cogent logic to vacuous emotion. Kairosfocus, congratulations! Such responses are tacit admissions of the defeat of your detractors. They're simply slurs hurled at the victor of a debate or other contest after their intellect has failed them. Yes, I'm putting them in my collection of "troll talk." -QQuerius
November 10, 2022
November
11
Nov
10
10
2022
08:18 AM
8
08
18
AM
PDT
JVL: A long time ago you made up your mind and all you are willing to do now is to make some attempt to interpret every single thing that is presented here in the shadow of your pre-picked mindset.
Sometimes the truth can hurt.Sir Giles
November 10, 2022
November
11
Nov
10
10
2022
07:46 AM
7
07
46
AM
PDT
Kairosfocus: hat is equivalent to saying that we are in isolated zones of function in a configuration space, i.e. islands of function. And of course gibberish is being rewarded for mere increments to a target. Which, in this case, is actually preloaded. Other exercises can exploit hill climbing without explicit loading of peaks, but generally there is overlooking of the dominant truly blind search challenge: arrival at shorelines of islands of function. I was going to repeat what I and other have already said many, many times but, you know what? What's the point? You have zero intention of taking anything we say onboard. You are completely disingenuous about wanting to look at evidence or consider someone else's argument. A long time ago you made up your mind and all you are willing to do now is to make some attempt to interpret every single thing that is presented here in the shadow of your pre-picked mindset. This is why you're not a real scientist. You don't listen. You only tell.JVL
November 10, 2022
November
11
Nov
10
10
2022
05:43 AM
5
05
43
AM
PDT
F/N: Evolutionary Informatics Lab has a Weasel emulator. (Also see here.) The basic message, is that such searches use active information coming from oracles, i.e. they have an embedded source of information/ decisions that significantly or decisively enhances their performance. Moreover as we saw above, Weasel exhibits fine tuning, once we realise that various aspects, values etc have to be matched to achieve the sort of performance pattern we see for weasel. That is equivalent to saying that we are in isolated zones of function in a configuration space, i.e. islands of function. And of course gibberish is being rewarded for mere increments to a target. Which, in this case, is actually preloaded. Other exercises can exploit hill climbing without explicit loading of peaks, but generally there is overlooking of the dominant truly blind search challenge: arrival at shorelines of islands of function. KFkairosfocus
November 10, 2022
November
11
Nov
10
10
2022
01:21 AM
1
01
21
AM
PDT
1 … 5 6 7 8 9 … 19