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Do centrioles carry biological information?


This pdf letter to Nature journal Cell Research is free: Paternally contributed centrioles exhibit exceptional persistence in *C. elegans *embryos

If you want background re centrioles.

This door is for Darwin trolls. So far as we know, noise limits are not currently in force.

See also: Talk to the fossils: Let’s see what they say back

Alicia Cartelli:
Everything we currently know about the centrosome says that it functions as a microtubule organizing center, from which spindles, attached motor proteins, etc. control chromosome movement during cell division.
Wells is explaining how it does that. Virgil Cain
How clueless are you BA? For me to produce a citation that falsifies Wells' hypothesis, someone needs to have tested it. Wells himself hasn't done so, and neither has anyone else because as I said, his hypothesis is absolutely ridiculous. More holes than swiss cheese. Everything we currently know about the centrosome says that it functions as a microtubule organizing center, from which spindles, attached motor proteins, etc. control chromosome movement during cell division. There is absolutely nothing to suggest the centrosome functions as a turbine, Wells has no idea what would actually drive the turbine, and there is no advantage to a turbine model over the current model which is actually backed by years of research. Alicia Cartelli
Earth to Alicia Cartelli- If you want a pile of cowchips no need to look past evolutionism. If you want a hypothesis totally unsupported by the evidence, again no need to look beyond evolutionism. Virgil Cain
Alicia Cartelli, I know, you being a neo-Darwinist, how impressed you are with your own opinion instead of actual real time empirical evidence. But to call me less than impressed with your opinion on these matters would be a severe understatement. Thus, if it is not too much trouble, could you actually produce the citation(s) that falsifies Well's turbine hypothesis? And also could you show how the centriole molecular machine, whether it be a turbine or not, was created by undirected material processes? Inquiring minds, and all that, want to know.
More Irreducible Complexity Is Found in Flagellar Assembly - September 24, 2013 Concluding Statement: Eleven years is a lot of time to refute the claims about flagellar assembly made in Unlocking the Mystery of Life, if they were vulnerable to falsification. Instead, higher resolution studies confirm them. Not only that, research into the precision assembly of flagella is provoking more investigation of the assembly of other molecular machines. It's a measure of the robustness of a scientific theory when increasing data strengthen its tenets over time and motivate further research. Irreducible complexity lives! - http://www.evolutionnews.org/2013/09/more_irreducibl077051.html “The response I have received from repeating Behe's claim about the evolutionary literature, which simply brings out the point being made implicitly by many others, such as Chris Dutton and so on, is that I obviously have not read the right books. There are, I am sure, evolutionists who have described how the transitions in question could have occurred.” And he continues, “When I ask in which books I can find these discussions, however, I either get no answer or else some titles that, upon examination, do not, in fact, contain the promised accounts. That such accounts exist seems to be something that is widely known, but I have yet to encounter anyone who knows where they exist.” David Ray Griffin - retired professor of philosophy of religion and theology “I build molecules for a living, I can’t begin to tell you how difficult that job is. I stand in awe of God because of what he has done through his creation. Only a rookie who knows nothing about science would say science takes away from faith. If you really study science, it will bring you closer to God." James Tour – one of the leading nano-tech engineers in the world - Strobel, Lee (2000), The Case For Faith, p. 111 Top Ten Most Cited Chemist in the World Knows Darwinian Evolution Does Not Work - James Tour, Phd. - video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Y5-VNg-S0s Does Science Make Faith Obsolete? James Tour - video - March 9, 2015 (talk given February 18, 2015 - 30:20 minute mark - he publicly asks Darwinists to explain macro-evolution to him - he will 'buy them lunch' for doing so) https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CB3ZmLatcUI#t=1827 A world-famous chemist tells the truth: there’s no scientist alive today who understands macroevolution - March 6, 2014 https://uncommondesc.wpengine.com/intelligent-design/a-world-famous-chemist-tells-the-truth-theres-no-scientist-alive-today-who-understands-macroevolution/
No, BA, I said his hypothesis is completely unsupported by scientific evidence. And that would be 100% true. He has absolutely no experimental evidence supporting any of his claims and in fact, most of his claims directly contradict current models (which are based on actual, experimental evidence). Slam dunk? I think not. Just another pile of cowchips from BA and the ID community. Alicia Cartelli
Box, thanks. But, considering the sheer and unfathomed complexity in the cell being dealt with, it really is embarrassing for atheists. Kind of like a drunk thinking he has a chance in a fight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svy1l9khnBg bornagain77
Post #5 — yet another slam dunk by Bornagain77. Box
Alicia Cartelli you state in regards to Jonathan Wells's video:
That is the stuff of science fiction wet dreams. Completely out of left field and unsupported by any scientific evidence whatsoever, UD’s favorite kind of science!
And yet, even though Dr Wells's claim that centrioles 'are holistically designed to be turbines' is merely, to use his word, a 'hypothesis', his claim, none-the-less, is certainly not without scientific merit or precedence. And his hypothesis certainly is not 'Completely out of left field and unsupported by any scientific evidence whatsoever' as you claim. In fact, the cell is now found to be crammed with molecular machinery of all various types.
Indeed, the entire cell can be viewed as a factory that contains an elaborate network of interlocking assembly lines, each of which is composed of a set of large protein machines." (Bruce Alberts, "The Cell as a Collection of Protein Machines: Preparing the Next Generation of Molecular Biologists," Cell, 92 (February 6, 1998): 291-294) Venter: Life Is Robotic Software - July 15, 2012 Excerpt: “All living cells that we know of on this planet are ‘DNA software’-driven biological machines comprised of hundreds of thousands of protein robots, coded for by the DNA, that carry out precise functions,” said (Craig) Venter. http://crev.info/2012/07/life-is-robotic-software/ Bio-Mechanics - Don't the Intricacy & Ubiquity of Molecular Machines Provide Evidence for Design? by Casey Luskin - Spring 2012 Excerpt: molecular machines use components we commonly recognize in human machinery. They may have joints, gears, propellers, turnstiles, brakes, and clutches, which form motors, tweezers, vehicles, assembly lines, transportation networks, intelligent error-checking systems, and much more. But biomolecular machines have a major difference that distinguishes them from human technology: their energetic efficiency dwarfs our best accomplishments. One paper observes that molecular machines "are generally more efficient than their macroscale counterparts,"7 and another suggests that the efficiency of the bacterial flagellum "could be ~100%."8 Human engineers can only dream of creating such devices. http://www.salvomag.com/new/articles/salvo20/molecular-machines-evidence-for-design.php The Closest Look Ever At The Cell's Machines - 2006 Excerpt: The study combined a method of extracting complete protein complexes from cells (tandem affinity purification, developed in 2001 by Bertrand Séraphin at EMBL), mass spectrometry and bioinformatics to investigate the entire protein household of yeast, turning up 257 machines that had never been observed. It also revealed new components of nearly every complex already known. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/01/060123121832.htm
In fact, many parts of the bacterial flagellum are found to have direct corollaries to man-made machines:
Flagellum - drawing & major parts list https://dennisdjones.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/flagellum.jpg
And micro-photographs of the flagellum certainly do not take away from the impression that the flagellum IS indeed a machine:
Electron Microscope Photograph of Flagellum Hook-Basal Body http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/08-08-20images/figure03.jpg Structural diversity of bacterial flagellar motors - 2011 Excerpt: Figure 3 - Manual segmentation of conserved (solid colours) and unconserved (dotted lines) motor components based on visual inspection. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3160247/figure/f3/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3160247/
In fact, Biologist Howard Berg at Harvard calls the Bacterial Flagellum
“the most efficient machine in the universe."
Berg's claim is certainly not without merit since the flagellum is found to rotate faster than the engine of a formula one race car:
Bacterial Flagellum - A Sheer Wonder Of Intelligent Design – video http://tl.cross.tv/61771
Moreover, Berg called the following astonishing discovery the 'Ferrari of flagella'
Souped-Up Hyper-Drive Flagellum Discovered - December 3, 2012 Excerpt: Get a load of this -- a bacterium that packs a gear-driven, seven-engine, magnetic-guided flagellar bundle that gets 0 to 300 micrometers in one second, ten times faster than E. coli. If you thought the standard bacterial flagellum made the case for intelligent design, wait till you hear the specs on MO-1,,, Harvard's mastermind of flagellum reverse engineering, this paper describes the Ferrari of flagella. "Instead of being a simple helically wound propeller driven by a rotary motor, it is a complex organelle consisting of 7 flagella and 24 fibrils that form a tight bundle enveloped by a glycoprotein sheath.... the flagella of MO-1 must rotate individually, and yet the entire bundle functions as a unit to comprise a motility organelle." To feel the Wow! factor, jump ahead to Figure 6 in the paper. It shows seven engines in one, arranged in a hexagonal array, stylized by the authors in a cross-sectional model that shows them all as gears interacting with 24 smaller gears between them. The flagella rotate one way, and the smaller gears rotate the opposite way to maximize torque while minimizing friction. Download the movie from the Supplemental Information page to see the gears in action. http://www.evolutionnews.org/2012/12/souped-up_flage066921.html
Thus, in regards to Wells's hypothesis that the centriole could function like a turbine, the claim is certainly not without scientific merit and/or precedence. What is without scientific merit and/or precedence however, and is 'Completely out of left field and unsupported by any scientific evidence whatsoever' is the claim of militant atheists, such as yourself, that such sophisticated molecular machinery, which far outclasses any machine man has ever built in terms of engineering parameters, can be built by undirected material processes. In fact, I hold that claim of atheists, besides being out in left field with no scientific merit whatsoever, to be completely ludicrous and even insane in its premise. bornagain77
Uh the John Wells video. That is the stuff of science fiction wet dreams. Completely out of left field and unsupported by any scientific evidence whatsoever, UD's favorite kind of science! Alicia Cartelli
Alicia @2: "What an imagination that guy has." What do you mean? Eric Anderson
Wow, I thought centrioles carrying information was a crazy idea. Then I watched the video. What an imagination that guy has. Alicia Cartelli
Centrioles are also animated at the 1:30 minute mark of this following video:
Darwinian Evolution Vs. Intelligent Design in Medical Research - video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNq__28rQas Do centrioles generate a polar ejection force? - Wells J. - 2005 Excerpt: Centrioles consist of nine microtubule triplets arranged like the blades of a tiny turbine. Instead of viewing centrioles through the spectacles of molecular reductionism and neo-Darwinism, this hypothesis assumes that they are holistically designed to be turbines. Orthogonally oriented centriolar turbines could generate oscillations in spindle microtubules that resemble the motion produced by a laboratory vortexer. The result would be a microtubule-mediated ejection force tending to move chromosomes away from the spindle axis and the poles. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15889341
A few related notes
(Some) Astonishing Molecular Machines (involved in cell division) – Drew Berry https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfB8vQokr0Q Getting a tighter grip on cell division - November 2010 The molecular machinery that shepherds and literally pulls the chromosomes apart consists of paired microtubules radiating from opposite poles of the dividing cell and an enormous, but precise, molecular complex called a kinetochore. http://www.physorg.com/news/2010-11-tighter-cell-division.html Dividing Cells 'Feel' Their Way Out Of Warp - 2009 "What we found is an exquisitely tuned mechanosensory system that keeps the cells shipshape so they can divide properly," - Douglas N. Robinson, Ph.D. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090910142402.htm 600 Genes Involved in Fundamental Cell Division - Cornelius Hunter - July 2011 Excerpt: The hundreds of genes are involved in an absolutely fundamental biological process is yet another example of evolution’s failure to explain biology. http://darwins-god.blogspot.com/2011/07/600-genes-involved-in-fundamental-cell.html Study finds cell division sign posts for chromosomes along microtubule highway - May 22, 2015 Excerpt: A system within cells that guides how chromosomes move during cell division was discovered by researchers,,, Microtubules are components that give structure to and organize a cell. They are also the main intracellular transport network. Motor proteins move along the microtubules ferrying chromosomes undergoing mitosis (part of cell division) as well as other subcellular organelles. How motor proteins navigate chromosomes along the highway during cell division was unclear, until now. The team discovered marks that label microtubules to direct the way in which a chromosomal motor protein should proceed. During cell division, chromosomes move on special spindle microtubules to align themselves, so they can split equally between the two resulting daughter cells. The team demonstrated that chromosome motion for this alignment is controlled by a specific post-translational modification of tubulin, the protein building block of microtubule tracks.,,, ,,,kinesin motors failed to take chromosomes to their alignment position if the guiding marks were eliminated," explains Grishchuk. "This discovery became possible due to our use of high-resolution laser trapping techniques, which enable observing motions and forces at a single molecule level.,,, http://phys.org/news/2015-05-cell-division-chromosomes-microtubule-highway.html Dna Molecular Biology Visualizations - Wrapping And DNA Replication - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8NHcQesYl8

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