Defend the Children

_{Barry Arrington
May 24, 2022

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The madness will not end until we grasp the following truths:

1. There are hundreds of millions of guns in the US.

2. Even assuming for the sake of argument that it would be a desirable thing to do, no gun control law can eliminate all or even a small fraction of those guns.

3. Evil men will always be able to get a gun.

4. Schools are soft targets full of defenseless people.

5. We can’t hire enough cops to guard all of those people.

6. We need to equip and train school staff who are willing to do so to defend themselves and the children in their care.

7. Don’t tell me it can’t be done. It is being done in Israel.

Fight me. Show me that one of those statements is false.

Comments

Security Failure "The teenage madman who slaughtered 19 kids and two teachers in a Texas school spent more than 40 minutes inside as witnesses desperately urged police to charge into the building, it was revealed Wednesday. Salvador Ramos barricaded himself inside the classroom before opening fire on students and teachers inside. Border Patrol agents finally breached the door about 40 minutes to an hour later when a staff member gave them a key." https://nypost.com/2022/05/25/police-waited-to-enter-texas-school-as-shooter-went-on-killing-spree/ Andrewasauber_{May 26, 2022
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It’s interesting how the divide is. What people fail to discuss is the obvious? Almost 400 million guns and so little violence. There is definitely too much violence in the US but it’s not concentrated where the guns are. It is not the overwhelming majority of the gun owners who are the problem. They are a major plus. About 4 billion people if given the chance would come to violent America which is part of the problem. Why do they want to come? Why are they the problem? And a lot are actually trying. To compare Canada, New Zealand or other western democracies and their completely different ethnic make up is absurd. None of these western countries would last 6 months if the US disappeared. And they know it. How many people are immigrating to China, Russia, India, Indonesia, Africa or Latin America? By the way several NATO countries in Europe are actively trading with Russia despite the war. I mention this to show how desperate people become when their lives/modern life styles are at stake. Aside: it was a fourth grade that was attacked. But it was his high school that rejected the shooter. Aside2: this has nothing to do with guns causing harm or children dying. Look at the divide on this. That should tell you everything.jerry_{May 26, 2022
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:) Darwin's lackeys on the one side say that life is meaningless and on the other side they play virtue signalling game . You can't have it both ways. Life is meaningless or is not . If you choose that is meaningless then everything that happens has no meaning .Somehow darwinists "discover" the meaning and morality when something happens and become more religious than any theist :lol: because they can't let a virtue signalling opportunity pass without "profit"(showing off their hypocrisy).Lieutenant Commander Data_{May 26, 2022
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America's gun culture - in seven charts https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41488081JVL_{May 26, 2022
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If he had been inclined, it is not hard to make an effective bomb, turning the vehicle into a kamikaze weapon.
I initially laughed hollowly at this non sequitur. Then I recalled Timothy McVey and two tons of ammonium nitrate. I don't know but I would hope there are systems in place that restrict unusual purchases of this fertiliser. Edit: https://www.cisa.gov/ammonium-nitrate-security-programFred Hickson_{May 25, 2022
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Law enforcement have some explaining to do over who locked the classroom door.Fred Hickson_{May 25, 2022
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TimR, actually, many of those are points of comparison. I believe, however Israel is actually on the whole largely secular though with a strong religious minority among the Jewish population. Those factors do not change the fact that a major persistent soft target threat has been effectively managed through target hardening, border control etc. I suspect the US still imagines itself in a business as usual peaceful situation; maybe that needs revision. KFkairosfocus_{May 25, 2022
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https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/05/25/andrew-follett-says-the-media-is-telling-you-two-major-lies-about-mass-shootings-and-gun-control/ Vividvividbleau_{May 25, 2022
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Israel is surrounded by hostile countries, some of which it has been at war with in the recent past. There is sharp ethnic division at its centre, which has resulted in active terrorist organisations operating within it and in neighbouring countries, and in the need for it to maintain military service. It is a deeply religious country, and there you do have a point of comparison with the US (in contrast with the rest of the western liberal democracies).TimR_{May 25, 2022
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TimR, but the comparison is obviously relevant, for whatever reasons that may differ there is a pattern of soft target attacks reflecting nihilism. Twenty one years ago in the US the worst such attack killed 3,000. As I just noted, just across the nearby border, full auto weapons are in play. KF PS, actually, you are wrong about other countries. There are any number of places where a lot of violence happens, sometimes the typical weekly toll would shock you. On machetes etc the worst case is of course Rwanda in 1994. Again, the pattern is rise of nihilism and societal breakdown into lawless conduct. The longer term answers will lie down that road.kairosfocus_{May 25, 2022
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CD, a rifle makes a more dangerous wound than a typical handgun round; including intermediate rounds such as the .223. So would a shotgun slug. That is not news. The rifle is also far more cumbersome and that is why it is not a typical weapon except under special circumstances. Where, too, modern ballistic protection is such that pistol rounds will struggle to cope, even in a defensive situation, as we can possibly see with the shooting the way in phase, the officers likely thought they had to try a far more difficult target in a high stress situation. And sixty miles away is a border, across which for many years many fully automatic weapons have been in use in a civil war like situation, where the border is inadequately secured. KFkairosfocus_{May 25, 2022
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Kairosfocus: yes, but I would hope the US doesn't compare itself to Israel. Or, for that matter China. And yes, of course we can point to horrific acts in other countries (here in NZ we had the Christchurch massacre a year or two ago). But the US is unique in the regularity of these events. We all have knives and machetes etc in other countries. But we are not routinely mowing down our citizens with them or with anything else. In the rest of the world we just stare in incomprehension every time it happens and every time nothing is done. We can't understand, one why it happens, and two why nothing is done about it. There is something different in the culture in the US that is leading to these events occurring time and time again. JHolo suggested some reasons. Do you have any ideas?TimR_{May 25, 2022
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Vivid, it does seem he shot his way in, we need to ask why the officers he engaged on breaking in did not work as a team to take him out. I suspect the tactical vest was a part of the problem, they may have thought they did not have weapons able to deal with armour. It would be interesting to learn what the radio controllers on the officers told them. Notice, too, rapid convergence of officers from multiple agencies, that means there was widespread radio communication, perhaps including cell phones. I also note the standard is for a break in should be at least two officers, it was a single border patrol officer who went in and took a hit taking the shooter out. Compare the recent shooting incidents in churches. KFkairosfocus_{May 25, 2022
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TimR and others, kindly note what has happened in Israel. likewise, recall the recent Christmas Market vehicular mowing down, and also the fact that indeed at Columbine there was an intent to blow up a bomb as finale. There are some deeply wrong things that have happened and are happening that have led to nihilism at the fringe. In this case, we have a just turned 18 year old who blew up over being chided for poor academic performance. In the shadows, he first shot his grandmother (she was serious but will survive). He took out what is inside him by going to a school full of children, a soft target, to shoot it up. Whatever demons were riding him, recall, he drove there in a pickup. That could just as easily have been used to mow people down in a crowd. If he had been inclined, it is not hard to make an effective bomb, turning the vehicle into a kamikaze weapon. We are not told enough details but one guess is, he may have been on psychoactive drugs, officially and/or unofficially. Similarly, it does not get reported like this but in many inner cities there are many "gang" mass shootings, Chicago is a commonly cited case. Then there is the phrase, going postal. Do not overlook, attacks with machetes or the like, including school attacks, I recall one being in China. I add as context that for 49 years on average, every week in the US 25,000 of our living posterity in the womb have been killed, under decrees under colour of law, rights and choice; the weekly global toll is a million. The point is, there is a demonically nihilistic plague of attacking others on the loose and after target hardening, that has to be addressed. We live in a dark age, and we need to ask some questions about it. KFkairosfocus_{May 25, 2022
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https://www.crimeonline.com/2022/05/25/police-engaged-shooter-outside-elementary-school-before-he-killed-19-students-inside-state-police/ Hope this is not accurate. Vividvividbleau_{May 25, 2022
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So many? Get a grip. And stop quote-mining me. Also, guns aren't required to wreak havoc. And what evil people do in other countries isn't always reported. What planet are you on?ET_{May 25, 2022
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ET: "people intent on doing harm will find a way" is the same argument as Barry's no. 3 quoted by Seversky above. But I guess the question is - why are there so many people intent on doing harm in the US? What in the culture is it that leads to multiple gun massacres? We have bad men in all countries. But the US is unique in their propensity to live out their fantasies.TimR_{May 25, 2022
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I'll take a 9mm in a classroom setting. A rifle indoors isn't ideal unless you are shooting down a long hallway.ET_{May 25, 2022
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Look, it's just a very, very, very, small % of people who do this crap. And people intent on doing harm will find a way. It's so pathetic to hand down an indictment of the USA when it is just a few out of 350,000,000. And it's always the pro-abortion clowns being the hypocrites.ET_{May 25, 2022
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Defend The Children
A good idea. Unfortunately, the lack of any effective action following previous mass shootings suggest that what is actually being defended is the gun culture and the firearms industry which supplies it.
1. There are hundreds of millions of guns in the US.
And who's fault is that?
2. Even assuming for the sake of argument that it would be a desirable thing to do, no gun control law can eliminate all or even a small fraction of those guns.
No one thinks there is a "silver bullet" solution to this issue but it should be possible to craft legislation that would gradually whittle down the number of guns in circulation over time. Isn't it worth a try?
3. Evil men will always be able to get a gun.
That's no reason not to try and make it more difficult for them.
4. Schools are soft targets full of defenseless people.
There was no reason for them to be anything else until these shootings started.
5. We can’t hire enough cops to guard all of those people.
Probably not and even the presence of armed officers has not always been as effective as one might have hoped.
6. We need to equip and train school staff who are willing to do so to defend themselves and the children in their care.
School staff signed up to be teachers not police or soldiers but I'm sure you could find some who would be prepared to take up arms to defend the children in their care. Of course, they would have to be adequately armed. If they only have access to a 9mm semiautomatic pistol they are going to find themselves seriously outgunned by a shooter armed with an AR15. You would need to provide them both with an AR15 or AK47 and with the extensive training they would need to use them effectively.
7. Don’t tell me it can’t be done. It is being done in Israel.
Nobody is saying it can't be done but Israel is in a semi-permanent state of low-intensity war with its neighbors. We are lamenting the fact that it should be necessary in one of the world's wealthiest and most powerful countries to turn schools into fortified, armed compounds.Seversky_{May 25, 2022
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TimR: What is different about America compared to all the other western democracies that has led to this state of affairs?
NRA, misinterpretation of the 2nd amendment, and right-wing gun nuts.JHolo_{May 25, 2022
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What is wrong with American culture, where it is believed necessary for schools to be fortresses and have armed guards? Why are Americans constantly massacring each other? What is different about America compared to all the other western democracies that has led to this state of affairs?TimR_{May 25, 2022
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BA/62 A little light reading for your edification: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/02/what-i-saw-treating-the-victims-from-parkland-should-change-the-debate-on-guns/553937/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharechuckdarwin_{May 25, 2022
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Shoot the vest anyway. And yes, JHolo, the Texas gun laws are a joke. With their gun laws they need to make schools close to impenetrable.ET_{May 25, 2022
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The gunman who killed 19 students and two teachers Tuesday in an elementary school in Uvalde, Texas, wasn’t known to law enforcement ahead of time and had no documented mental-health issues and no known arrests, state officials said Wednesday.
He was able to legally buy an assault weapon, but couldn’t legally buy a beer. Am I the only one who sees a problem with that.JHolo_{May 25, 2022
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Relatd: You don’t see the connection with abortion?
No. Other countries have far less restrictive abortion laws, and don’t have the mass shootings that the US does. And, ironically, most also have lower abortion rates. I don’t see the link.JHolo_{May 25, 2022
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KF: What you miss is that Canada, Britain and Europe are able to benefit from the US.
Yes, they benefit from the errors the US makes. Too bad that the US doesn’t.JHolo_{May 25, 2022
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KF at 135, We're all going to hell in a handbasket. Soon there will be rioting and shootings followed by more rioting and shootings. And the international vultures are doing bad things... We've got nothing helpful here. Nothing. And all those who died through abortion? Should Roe v. Wade be overturned, a few states have already announced that they will not enforce the change in law. This will lead to lawsuits to follow the change in law. I don't think those who are watching this are not preparing for trouble. They are.relatd_{May 25, 2022
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PPS, have you forgotten what happened in London, Paris, India, Kenya, Sri Lanka etc?kairosfocus_{May 25, 2022
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JH at 137, You don't see the connection with abortion? The devaluing of human life? The turning of abortion into a woman only issue disconnects the very necessary man from the equation. She didn't get pregnant by herself. And fathers. There are a lot of young men in prison who had no father in their lives. Think about that.relatd_{May 25, 2022
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