DEVELOPING: The US Truckers’ protest convoys converge at Hagerstown MD, head for the DC Beltway March 5th

According to this article: https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/trudeau-attacks-truckers-in-mostly-empty-eu-parliament-gets-eviscerated-by-croation-mep/ Almost 80% of the European Parliament walked out in protest to Justin Trudeau's speech. Naturally, he would term this "a small, fringe minority" as usual. -Q Querius

And now, here's what some MEPs in the European Parliament had to say about the way Justin Trudeau brutalized freedom in Canada: In order of appearance: MEP Christine Anderson of Germany MEP Mislav Kolakusic of Croatia Romanian MEP Christian Terhes EU representative from Munich, Bernhard Zimniok Two of them requested that Justin Trudeau not be allowed to address the EU Parliament and most of the MEPs walked out when he persisted in doing so anyway. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yc5_8TJxj6I And then, he had the gall to lecture the European Parliament (or at least those who remained) about "democracy." How embarrassing! -Q Querius

Scamp “I apologize if you thought my comment was about you personally.” Not necessary but that’s very gracious of you. Vivid vividbleau

VB: I don’t know who you are talking about but I fully support the bicyclist right to peacefully protest.

I apologize if you thought my comment was about you personally. Scamp

Scamp “Same here. But they weren’t on the freeway. They were on a city street.” I think that’s completely legal “But I find it ironic that when truckers are disrupting traffic, it is justifiable civil disobedience. But when a lone cyclist disrupts the truckers’ plans, it is unacceptable.” I don’t know who you are talking about but I fully support the bicyclist right to peacefully protest. Vivid vividbleau

VB: What do you know about traffic laws in the DC area?

Not much. But I assume that they are similar to here. When there are not designated bike lanes bicycles have the same rights, and must follow the same rules, as cars.

In my state riding a bike on the freeway is against the law.

Same here. But they weren’t on the freeway. They were on a city street. But I find it ironic that when truckers are disrupting traffic, it is justifiable civil disobedience. But when a lone cyclist disrupts the truckers’ plans, it is unacceptable. The truckers should hire the cyclist as their marketing agent. To get an idea of what people think of the truckers and this cyclist I recommend reading the comments to this tweet. https://twitter.com/ztpetrizzo/status/1505332506073223175?s=21 Scamp

In Virginia a bicyclist cannot ride on an Interstate and also a bicycle cannot ride on the George Washington Parkway which I think is part of I 95 I have no idea what route the truckers are on so I have no idea what highway the bicyclists was on. Vivid vividbleau

Scamp “And he did it without breaking any laws” What do you know about traffic laws in the DC area? In my state riding a bike on the freeway is against the law Vivid. vividbleau

More details on the cyclist that pissed off the truckers.

In a second video shared by Petrizzo, filmed by a livestreaming trucker when the road widened into multiple lanes, the truck driver pulled alongside the bicyclist to yell at him. “Hey, what are you doing? You’ve got a bunch of trucks behind you,” he said. “What’s that? I didn’t hear you… I didn’t hear you, what did you say?” the man on a bike responded. “You have a bunch of trucks behind you,” the trucker repeated. Trolling once again, the bicyclist gestured to his ear and said, “Can’t hear you, sorry, it’s too loud,” as the honking continued. https://apple.news/AJhgYd3I6Q-euyRcuRNs3EQ

Scamp

This is priceless. The truckers getting pissed off at a cyclist for slowing down their slow drive through DC. https://twitter.com/tristansnell/status/1505351939504095237?s=21 He got the attention of both the truckers and the other citizens. And he did it without breaking any laws. Civil disobedience at its best, and most effective. Scamp

Sc, there is a serious grievance as you have been present to see but have refused to examine. As the incidence of adverse events becomes ever higher, we are going to have to seriously deal with how authorities have been deaf to remonstrance and I fear it is not going to be pretty. As for oh those annoying truckers breaking the law, civil disobedience is always illegal and controversial but is a sight less so than proverbial pitchforks, tar and feathers or worse, so we need to take pause and ask ourselves if we are playing with fatal disaffection. KF kairosfocus

KF: Sc, EVERY protest that uses civil disobedience breaks the law. Were you similarly exercised over other such protests?

Some of them yes, some of them no. In general, when the protests target and cause suffering to innocent people for extended periods of time, they are unacceptable.

Ms Rosa Parks broke the laws on the books, so did Martin Luther King, so did Ghandi,

And, unless I am mistaken, they did not target and cause intentional suffering to innocent people. The only thing harmed by them was the sensibilities of self-entitled elites.

And more. Civil disobedience must be seen in context,

Which I have done. There is no context under which intentionally targeting and causing the suffering of innocent people is acceptable.

and the grievance at stake must not be sidestepped. KF

No grievance, regardless of its merit, justifies what the truckers did in Ottawa or at border crossings. The fact that you can’t see this speaks volumes, and not in your favour. Scamp

KF: PS, kindly consider: perhaps the person in question has more awareness of the ugly side of on the ground realities than you have.

Your condescension has been duly ignored. Scamp

Sc, EVERY protest that uses civil disobedience breaks the law. Were you similarly exercised over other such protests? No responsible person likes to see law breaking, however -- as has been repeatedly pointed out to you but dismissed the better to focus on illegality -- there are any number of cases where civil authorities have been deaf to mere remonstrance, and where civil disobedience has contributed to breakthrough. Ms Rosa Parks broke the laws on the books, so did Martin Luther King, so did Ghandi, so did Thoreau, so did the early trade union organisers, so did Luther at Worms, so did the early Christians refusing to offer salt in the altar fire and swear Caesar is Lord. So did Jesus, taking in mind that the traditions of the elders were thought to have force of law, and that the money changers were there in the court of the gentiles under approval of the civil authority. And more. Civil disobedience must be seen in context, and the grievance at stake must not be sidestepped. KF kairosfocus

F/N: on checking their site, they are still in Hagerstown, still rallying, protesting and convoying. They are probably trying to consolidate as a grassroots movement. KF kairosfocus

PS, kindly consider: perhaps the person in question has more awareness of the ugly side of on the ground realities than you have. kairosfocus

KF: Scamp, you are reacting to people whose cause you reject as though they have no rights and no grievance.

Please cite the comment or comments that state that I reject their cause. You are reacting to things that I have never said. My comments have always been about the inappropriate and illegal tactics used by the protesters. Not about the validity of the cause or the hazards of the vaccine. They are not relevant to my comments. Might I suggest that you make an attempt to understand a person’s argument before you respond to it. It makes for a more constructive discussion. Scamp

Scamp, you are reacting to people whose cause you reject as though they have no rights and no grievance. You have refused to recognise evidence of grievance and have failed to recognise malfeasance of officialdom. Yes, civil disobedience is always controversial, and it is always subject to demand to obey officials, but we must recognise that officials can be in the wrong or insensitive to grievance, too. In this case there is reason to believe or at least fear that the vaccines have been doing circulatory system damage, especially heart damage, and we know they are far less effective than traditional vaccines, meanwhile cumulative evidence of effectiveness of treatments has been sidelined and subjected to agit prop. At the same time, there are troubling signs of official overreach towards surveillance and control state. In that context it is clear police, including in Australia and Canada have done things that are questionable or outright abusive. In Canada, financial retaliation threatened to undermine confidence in the banks. Your insensitivity to such speaks, not in your favour. KF kairosfocus

Querius: Sure, when the video shows the assault and the injuries to her leg, so you have no choice but attack the person of the reporter who was beaten and shot.

When the person has a crowd funding site set up to fund her lawsuit against the police for brutality before the event she is suing for, what am I supposed to think? Scamp

Sure, when the video shows the assault and the injuries to her leg, so you have no choice but attack the person of the reporter who was beaten and shot. Was the Ottawa police goon who was clearly beating on her an imposter or was he legitimate? -Q Querius

Querius: And I guess you forgot this charming little encounter with the OTTAWA police:

Oh, yes. The Rebel News reporter who was targeted by the “goon squad”. The Rebel News reporter who had a crowd funding site created for her law suit against the police before the “event” occurred. Forgive me if I doubt the narrative of Rebel News. Scamp

Querius: Oh yes, they were! They were HONKING heir horns, shouting “Freedom,” slowing traffic, and disturbing the peace. All criminal offenses now in Fascist Canada.

Nice try. Scamp

But these protesters are not doing anything to warrant police intervention.

Oh yes, they were! They were HONKING heir horns, shouting "Freedom," slowing traffic, and disturbing the peace. All criminal offenses now in Fascist Canada. And I guess you forgot this charming little encounter with the OTTAWA police: https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=DhiIG3bEiY0 So I stand behind my assertion about the Canadian police cheerfully beating the tar out of Canadian citizens, including this journalist. Go on, keep defending the fascist goon squad. -Q Querius

Querius: Happily, I’m not yet seeing images of the Canadian police turning Canadians into Piñatas at a birthday party!

And you didn’t see it in Ottawa either. But these protesters are not doing anything to warrant police intervention. They are obviously smarter than those that occupied several blocks in Ottawa. Scamp

Another assessment of current Canadian politics by a Canadian. https://pjmedia.com/columns/david-solway-2/2022/03/11/canadas-real-prime-minister-n1565874 jerry

But the grievances of the Canadian people are still unaddressed by your fascist government. Here's Victoria B.C. today: https://youtu.be/RY-T2iesuM4 Happily, I'm not yet seeing images of the Canadian police turning Canadians into Piñatas at a birthday party! -Q Querius

Querius: My contention is that every person on earth can be labeled a “fringe minority” of some kind.

I agree. I’m sure some of my views would be characterized as fringe and others would be more commonly held. That is the nature of human beings.

After scanning through many protest live streams, it was abundantly apparent that ALL the violence was initiated by the police or their proxies–none from the protesting truckers who were peaceful from the beginning. The Canadian police should be embarrassed and ashamed of themselves!

When people resist police trying to move them along, there is violence on both sides. But with regard to the Canadian police, they have nothing to be ashamed of. They cleared the area with remarkably few incidents compared to many other police actions against resisting crowds. There may be a few where excessive force was used and they will be investigated.

No, an overthrow is where a group of people, arrest or kill the people in charge and take their place. None of this occurred in Canada except in the paranoid imaginations of your fascist leaders.

No, an overthrow is the change of government through means other than those allowed by legal, constitutional means. What they were asking the Governor General and senate to do does not fall under this category. An, attempt, even an inept one, is still an attempt.

A protest is by its very nature an impassioned communication of grievances made necessary by preoccupied, corrupt, and no-longer representative politicians and bureaucrats, which inconveniences the majority of people to the point that they and even the CBC cannot ignore.

By your definition, all protests are justified. I’m pretty sure that is not what you are intending to say.

I saw zero violence and zero harassment in the live streams that wasn’t initiated by the Canadian police. Did you even watch any of it live stream?

No, I was down there most days because I work there. I witnessed protesters yelling at people who were wearing masks. I witnessed the truckers honking their horns at all hours of the day. I witnessed them obstruct paramedics trying to get to calls. I know first hand of two people under home care who had to be transferred to the hospital because their home care nurses were unable to get to them because of the truckers. Scamp

My contention is that every person on earth can be labeled a "fringe minority" of some kind. After scanning through many protest live streams, it was abundantly apparent that ALL the violence was initiated by the police or their proxies--none from the protesting truckers who were peaceful from the beginning. The Canadian police should be embarrassed and ashamed of themselves! No, an overthrow is where a group of people, arrest or kill the people in charge and take their place. None of this occurred in Canada except in the paranoid imaginations of your fascist leaders. A protest is by its very nature an impassioned communication of grievances made necessary by preoccupied, corrupt, and no-longer representative politicians and bureaucrats, which inconveniences the majority of people to the point that they and even the CBC cannot ignore. Every strike in history was initiated by some "fringe group." This time, it was truckers. I saw that many of your so-called innocent people in Ottawa also joined in the display of patriotism, party atmosphere, music, cheers and chants, honking, unregulated friendliness, sharing food, shoveling snow, and partially restricting traffic that the Canadian police then blocked off entirely. I saw zero violence and zero harassment in the live streams that wasn't initiated by the Canadian police. Did you even watch any of it live stream? Here's an Canadian who can explain it for you: https://youtu.be/v-6pveoCADg -Q Querius

Querius: Interestingly, everyone can be dismissed as a “fringe minority.”

When you only represent <10% of the population, you are on the fringe. That doesn’t mean that your grievances don’t have merit, just that they aren’t shared by a large proportion of the population.

And now an advisor to Trudeau claims that beating the tar out of the peaceful (though persistent) protesters was perfectly justified…

Obviously, nothing justifies beating the tar out of anyone. Thankfully, there were very few incidents, on either side, and those identified are being investigated.

… because they were secretly trying to overthrow the Canadian government!!!

Well, it wasn’t very secret. They published a MOU requesting that the Governor General and Senate remove Trudeau and overrule government directives. That sounds like an attempted overthrow. Not an effective or well thought out one, but what would you expect from people who see nothing wrong with occupying several blocks of a city and constantly harassing the innocent people living there. Not exactly the type of people that I am proud to call Canadians. But I guess every country has their share of people who act childishly and selfishly. Scamp

Interestingly, everyone can be dismissed as a "fringe minority." For example, what do you call a retired male who goes on cruises and drinks martinis and writes the same comments over and over? A fringe minority that can be safely ignored. In the U.S., at least one state senator already met with the truckers. And such blue-collar protests are happening all over the world! And now an advisor to Trudeau claims that beating the tar out of the peaceful (though persistent) protesters was perfectly justified because they were secretly trying to overthrow the Canadian government!!! -Q Querius

Jerry: They are not innocent if they agree with the Canadian government. They are complicit if they do.

Sorry, but I don’t remember if they asked the people who lived there whether or not they agreed with the government. Besides, this is not about the government actions during the pandemic. It is about whether the truckers actions can be justified by any perceived grievance. Nobody here has explained how government actions justified the occupation of several city blocks and the constant harassing of the people who live there. Scamp

innocent people

They are not innocent if they agree with the Canadian government. They are complicit if they do. But also this was just a side show for what’s really happening. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQ4-vqO0oQ4&t=183s Everyone thought the quick pivot would be to climate change but an intervening convenient event happened. Russia invaded Ukraine. So we have another major crisis to take people’s minds off the important things. jerry

KF: Sc, why do you keep insisting on twisting others into evil caricatures?

Sorry, but I was always told that taking your frustrations out on innocent people was evil. Were my parents in error? Scamp

Sc, why do you keep insisting on twisting others into evil caricatures? No one justifies civil disobedience or onward uprising as a good thing. However, for both there is a long history of escalation of protest in the face of officialdom deaf to grievances and we must take the whole into account. The equally longstanding tactic of portraying protesters and those who may go far beyond, as lawless and acting without grievance cannot be defended on that history. Do you imagine Sam Sharpe et al had no cause? The American founders? Spartacus and co? Christians who went to the lions because they would not go to a temple, toss salt on an altar and confess Ceasar as Lord and so were branded as traitors? I suggest, you need to think again. KF kairosfocus

Sc, I think you need to update your thinking i/l/o many things, for instance what is emerging from the VAERS information repository. KF PS, let me clip a comment I put up earlier in another thread, inviting you to examine the graphical summary at open vaers,:

Troubling data on heart adverse reactions to vaccines at open vaers https://openvaers.com/covid-data/myo-pericarditis Note discussion here https://www.theblaze.com/op-ed/horowitz-vaers-myocarditis-already-47-of-2021-in-just-first-2-months-of-2022 . . . . [I then clipped from the second linked:]

reports of myocarditis and pericarditis are so prevalent now that just in the first eight weeks of 2022, we’re already at 47% of the total VAERS submissions for 2021. There were 24,177 reports of pericarditis/myocarditis submitted to VAERS in 2021. In 2022, just through Feb. 25, there were 11,289 reports, which is nearly half of last year’s total . . . . The reporting to VAERS is very disturbing because the trend line of vaccination, especially for the younger people more prone to this heart inflammation, has halted to a trickle in recent weeks. So why are there so many more reports this year? There are likely two possible explanations. Either more people and doctors know about VAERS and know to look for myocarditis, or there is a time bomb with many more people now realizing they have heart problems months later. Either way, this means that the initial estimates of case prevalence were just the tip of the iceberg, and we are likely to see young hearts damaged for years to come. What is so shocking is that several weeks ago, the CDC recognized the problem and attempted to get ahead of it by suggesting that “an 8-week interval may be optimal for some people ages 12 years and older, especially for males ages 12 to 39 years.” But historically, if we recognized even a fraction of heart problems from a shot, it would have been pulled from the market entirely! Yet here they are still recommending it, despite the fact that the virus poses low risk for this age group, notwithstanding the fact that the shot doesn’t stop transmission and that it is now outdated for the current strain of the virus! . . . . It’s not acceptable (and never was) for the media and the pharma-paid “fact checkers” to automatically dismiss VAERS. It is our main pharmaco-surveillance tool and was put in place precisely to serve as the consolation to the public for Congress absolving vaccine manufactures of liability. Also, the data complements what we’ve learned universally from all the myocarditis vaccine studies – that it targets teens and early 20s more than other age groups and is more potent after the second dose.

We may see a very serious long term consequence from how cavalierly Nuremberg Principles have been treated. At minimum, the Canadian and US truckers have a serious grievance and the refusal of officialdom to pay regard of consequence is a sobering sign of where we are. kairosfocus

Jerry: No, why would he?

Just interested, as the fact that Trudeau didn’t meet with the protesters was used here as justification for the truckers occupation and constant harassment of the people who lived in downtown Ottawa. Scamp

I haven’t been following this but has Biden sat down with them to discuss their demands?

No, why would he? An assumption about all protests

Protests work well when they align with the aims of the regime, at which point any violence and lawlessness will be excused, as with the Black Lives Matter riots of 2020. When demonstrations contradict the regime’s agenda they only serve as a brief pressure release for discontentment, after which you are expected to go home.

When you are in the wrong, are you going to negotiate with those that are right? The US and Canadian governments are certainly in the wrong as they constantly lie about the virus. Now that the virus is back page news, they will lie about other things. I am currently listening to a long book that the audio is over 24 hours long. It is called the Candy Bombers and about the Berlin Airlift. It is one of the most detailed histories I have ever seen on any topic but especially this important topic. One of the amazing insights is how those in power, in this case, the Soviets distorted any attempt to get to an agreement. It was only by one of the great protests in history, airlifting tons of food and material each day to a starving population that won the day. Will someday, someone get to write the truth about the oppressive governments in the US and Canada? Hopefully so, but I wouldn't hold my breath. These are not good people so negotiating in good faith is not something they do. The only hope is that somehow they can be vanquished. jerry

Querius: Amazingly, this is exactly what was said about the Paris protesters . . . by Marie Antoinette! Her speech ended with “Let them eat cake.”

Except the Paris protesters represented the majority of the Paris citizens, not a fringe minority, as was the case with the Ottawa protesters. And, she never said “let them eat cake. :) And, if my memory of history is correct (no guarantee that it is), the protesters in Paris had the goal of overthrowing the monarch/government. I have been told repeatedly here that overthrowing government was never the goal of the truckers. Scamp

No, the issue is a bunch of self-important, immature, selfish truckers taking there frustrations out on innocent people.

Amazingly, this is exactly what was said about the Paris protesters . . . by Marie Antoinette! Her speech ended with "Let them eat cake." https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2022/03/12/trudeau-advisor-claims-freedom-convoy-protestors-wanted-to-overthrow-goverment/ -Q Querius

KF: PPS, the majority [~ 90%] of drivers in the Canadian protests were vaccinated. The issue is lawfulness respecting liberty and curbing official overreach, informed by Nuremberg principles.

No, the issue is a bunch of self-important, immature, selfish truckers taking there frustrations out on innocent people. There was no loss of liberty. The government is responsible for protecting its citizenry from many things, including health and safety. To do this, they provided advance notice to international truckers that they would need vaccination to enter the country or require testing and quarantine. 90+% of truckers got vaccinated. We can discuss the value of this approach, and we would probably agree, but the government is certainly well within its authority to do this. The argument that the government was denying truckers a livelihood is a strawman. We have had a trucker shortage in Canada for years. They could have found other employment easily, but they opted to pretend that they were fighting for all of our freedoms. Scamp

Jerry, I haven’t been following this but has Biden sat down with them to discuss their demands? Scamp

Meanwhile, the US Truckers are still there. Again, the website for the convoy. https://thepeoplesconvoy.org/ jerry

PPS, the majority [~ 90%] of drivers in the Canadian protests were vaccinated. The issue is lawfulness respecting liberty and curbing official overreach, informed by Nuremberg principles. kairosfocus

Sc, while truckers are canaries in the mines (and evidently haven't been superspreaders to any significant degree) the issues of lawfulness in defence of the civil peace of justice are general. Justice is the due balance of rights, freedoms and duties. Rights, in turn are binding morally founded claims to be respected by others in regard to life, liberty, innocent reputation etc, requiring that to properly claim a right X one must be manifestly in the right regarding X; as, there can be no right to demand that another do evil and taint conscience. To illustrate, when in the 5-minute trials over the Baptist War uprising a slave blacksmith compelled at gunpoint to repair a damaged musket was hanged, that was gross injustice. I am increasingly convinced we need to return to recognising the historic framework of branch on which we all sit first duties (thus, first rights) as a start point for restoring civilisation to soundness. The inclination of government to lawless oligarchy is a hazard we must all recognise and restrain, where, the pandemic has shown too many cases of that inclination, indeed, it is clear that the vaccines push by officialdom has been in manifest violation of the Nuremberg Code. KF PS: The Nuremberg Code: http://www.cirp.org/library/ethics/nuremberg/

The Nuremberg Code (1947) Permissible Medical Experiments The great weight of the evidence before us to effect that certain types of medical experiments on human beings, when kept within reasonably well-defined bounds [--> notice, implicit bounds due to rights and quasi-infinite worth of the human being, thus moral government and grounds of the ruling with force of rightly reasoned natural law], conform to the ethics [--> ethics at core of law] of the medical profession generally. The protagonists of the practice of human experimentation justify their views on the basis that such experiments yield results for the good of society that are unprocurable by other methods or means of study. [--> value of the human person and of human thriving] All agree, however, that certain basic principles must be observed [--> why this oughtness? we are inherently morally governed] in order to satisfy moral, ethical and legal concepts: 1 The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential. This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, overreaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion; and should have sufficient knowledge and comprehension of the elements of the subject matter involved as to enable him to make an understanding and enlightened decision. [--> if so for experimental treatments, just as much so for so called established ones, but of course the vaccines have been experimental] This latter element requires that before the acceptance of an affirmative decision by the experimental subject there should be made known to him the nature, duration, and purpose of the experiment; the method and means by which it is to be conducted; all inconveniences and hazards reasonably to be expected; and the effects upon his health or person which may possibly come from his participation in the experiment. [--> fair comment, all of these have been grossly violated by officialdom, globally] The duty and responsibility for ascertaining the quality of the consent rests upon each individual who initiates, directs, or engages in the experiment. [--> The medical, pharmacological and officials involved have primary duty, pundits, media figures and publicists/promoters, secondary] It is a personal duty and responsibility which may not be delegated to another with impunity. [--> binding] 2 The experiment should be such as to yield fruitful results for the good of society, unprocurable by other methods or means of study, and not random and unnecessary in nature. [--> random tests with undue risks are dubious, and where reasonable evidence points to alternatives such as treatments, there is a duty to prioritise those results, not to trash, marginalise, censor and render effectively inaccessible . . . all, grossly violated] 3 The experiment should be so designed and based on the results of animal experimentation [--> largely skipped, this implies a cascade of evidence: in vitro, simulation and modelling, animal analogues, by extension recognition of secondary effects of recognised drugs] and a knowledge of the natural history of the disease or other problem under study that the anticipated results justify the performance of the experiment. [--> notice, the burden is on the experimenter, and the gold standard fallacy is confronted with available or accessible evidence from other means] 4 The experiment should be so conducted as to avoid all unnecessary physical and mental suffering and injury. [--> ponder the suppression, censorship and inattention to mounting evidence of a significantly high incidence of adverse events] 5 No experiment should be conducted where there is an a priori reason to believe that death or disabling injury will occur; except, perhaps, in those experiments where the experimental physicians also serve as subjects. 6 The degree of risk to be taken should never exceed that determined by the humanitarian importance of the problem to be solved by the experiment. [--> each human being is an end in her/him self and is not to be exploited as a means to the end of others] 7 Proper preparations should be made and adequate facilities provided to protect the experimental subject against even remote possibilities of injury, disability or death. [--> note, implication that risk must be exceedingly low] 8 The experiment should be conducted only by scientifically qualified persons. The highest degree of skill and care should be required through all stages of the experiment of those who conduct or engage in the experiment. [--> due care requirement] 9 During the course of the experiment the human subject should be at liberty to bring the experiment to an end if he has reached the physical or mental state where continuation of the experiment seems to him to be impossible. [--> right of withdrawal] 10 During the course of the experiment the scientist in charge must be prepared to terminate the experiment at any stage, if he has probable cause to believe, in the exercise of the good faith, superior skill and careful judgment required of him, that a continuation of the experiment is likely to result in injury, disability, or death to the experimental subject. [--> duty of termination]

Grossly violated, in fact grounding empanelling of international tribunals. However, so pervasive that perhaps instead an international truth and reconciliation commission is a better approach, where on power of pardon, truth is told and lessons of binding force are drawn to correct reversion to barbarism under colour of science and medicine. kairosfocus

Jerry: My guess is if a trucker for whatever reason does not want the vaccine, he has more options in the US than Canada for work.

Well, just based on a population difference, you are probably correct. But, just like the US, Canada has a big shortage of truck drivers. Any cross-border driver who doesn’t want to get the vaccine, there are no shortage of opportunities for him. In fact, the small percentage of drivers who refused the vaccine made very little impact on the cross-border traffic. Which must have been a blow to their egos. Scamp

I think there is less of a difference between Canada and the US than you think

Exports to the US are a major part of the Canadian economy. Exports to Canada are a minor part of US economy. Now a lot of the Canadian exports may be oil from Alberta but my guess in terms of physical goods carried by truck this is still true. That is probably behind the Truckers convoy in Canada as opposed to just plain mandates in general in the US. My guess is if a trucker for whatever reason does not want the vaccine, he has more options in the US than Canada for work. Both the US and Canadian government lied to the people for nearly 2 years and caused all sorts of hardship and dysfunctional behavior. They are still lying. However, some of the states early on caught on and were vocal about it and did things the federal government did not advocate and essentially were proven right. The reaction by the Trudeau government was world class in terms of the history of oppression. Wake up tomorrow and find out all your money you have is gone because you didn't do what the government wanted. But yet the Canadian people approved. A large percentage of the US would approve too as they are also fed lies by the press and believe them. I have good friends who claim to be conservative and live in Maryland and read the Washington Post every day. I was in the house the other day of another conservative friend and she had on the national news on TV which I listened to for 15 minutes as it essentially put out propaganda. I pointed out 4 distortions/lies to her. She just stared and I am sure was watching again the next night. You cannot trust it for the weather anymore as I watched the weather report at this friends house and the weather guy mentioned climate change during his report. jerry

Jerry: There is less of an issue in the US as individual states have more power.

I think there is less of a difference between Canada and the US than you think. At least with respect to COVID restrictions. The feds have authority over cross border traffic and airline restrictions, same as in the US. But all other restrictions in Canada are at the provincial level, and sometimes there are even additional municipal restrictions. Things like masking, vaccine requirements, capacity limits, closing businesses, sporting events, churches, etc, are all under provincial control. Regardless of what the truckers demanded if they feds, the feds do not have the authority to lift public health restrictions imposed by the province. Even if the province required the wearing of pink fluffy slippers in public for public health reasons, the feds would be powerless to overrule them. Scamp

The US media have responded as if they are invisible and not there. They do not even make the conservative sites. There is less of an issue in the US as individual states have more power. The next election will be about trying to keep the power of Democratic governors. With the press on their side and the giving out trillions to voters, it may work. Someone once said: “You can fool some of the people all the time.” With the press so one sided, this percentage is very high. People are generally ignorant, especially the more educated you are. https://www.bookwormroom.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Biden-04.jpg Again, the website for the convoy. https://thepeoplesconvoy.org/ jerry

I left a comment on the other thread but it is better placed here. The Canadian protesters can take a page from the American protesters. It is possible to have a very visible protest without breaking laws, harassing and disrupting thousands of people, or alienating a large number of people who might otherwise have supported the cause. Scamp

They are still there, still protesting. kairosfocus

Tin ear speech by US VP: https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/03/07/kamala-harris-attacks-truckers-pollution-peoples-convoy-protesters-hit-d-c/

“Pollution from heavy-duty trucks and buses has made the air poisonous to breathe and this pollution is also, of course, accelerating the climate crises,” Harris said during a speech near the White House on Monday. “Threatening the future not just of our communities, but of the entire world.” Harris did not mention the arrival of the “People’s Convoy” protest of American truckers over the weekend. The group of truckers planned to circle Washington, DC on the Capitol beltway on Monday to protest coronavirus restrictions. During her speech, Harris told the story of a California community she visited when she was the attorney general, blaming heavy freight trucks and public buses for the majority of the pollution hurting the community. She also shared her dream to get rid of all diesel powered trucks and buses and replace them with electric powered vehicles. “Imagine a future: The freight trucks that deliver bread and milk to our grocery store shelves and the buses that take children to school and parents to work…. Imagine that they produced zero emissions,” she said.

In another report, https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2022/03/07/merkley-we-should-have-a-climate-emergency-and-need-to-have-the-world-transition-to-green-energy-to-undercut-russia/

On Monday’s broadcast of MSNBC’s “All In,” Sen. Jeff Merkley (D-OR) argued that in order to undermine Russia’s power, we have to “end our dependence on oil and have the world transition to renewable energy.” Because Russia will be able to sell oil as long as there’s demand for oil, and called for a “climate emergency.” Merkley said, “As long as there is a world market for oil, Russia will be able to sell its oil. And so, unfortunately, not all my colleagues yet understand that the way to undercut the power of Russia is to end our dependence on oil and have the world transition to renewable energy.”

This is obviously coordinated and a sign they cannot directly respond to the concerns raised by the truckers, while having a scarcely veiled hostility. Where, ahead of arrival in DC, fencing went up around the Govt buildings housing Congress (just before State of Union speech) and some pandemic restrictions were eased. Both reveal policy analysis failure and an implied hostility to the heartland, working class people like those who drive trucks and serve in the military. Russia's threat is immediate. After 20+ years of trying it is clear that so called green energy is more hype than performance. The VP needs to ask where the key materials for batteries are mined. And Russia's threat is now, not in a dreamed of future. It seems, though, the truckers have won this round, and have made their point. If they have to reach so far to try a comeback pout down point, that is telling. KF kairosfocus

Footage of the convoy https://twitter.com/realDerekUtley/status/1500529129573265418 kairosfocus

The best resume I've ever read: <<"[SNIP] is so fake that the minute an outsider took office we got cheap gas, cheap food, became energy independent, no wars and focused on our country’s own issues. Establishment hacks get back in and we have inflation, medical tyranny, world war 3, need to take a mortgage for gas.>> https://twitter.com/realjuliasong/status/1500536393717714946 Lieutenant Commander Data

Kairosfocus Here we go . . . https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/06/us/trucker-convoy-protest-washington-dc-sunday/index.html On Sunday, the House Sergeant at Arms William Walker announced that the Capitol Police Board had issued an emergency declaration in response to the convoys’ arrival. “The Capitol Police Board has issued an emergency declaration to ensure that the US Capitol police are able to operate and respond as necessary,” Walker said in a letter to all members of Congress and staff. The I-Word, insurrectionists, hovers unstated but implied. Contrast Summer of 2020 when arson was across the street from the White House, KF PS, anyone notice the contrast between media minimalisation of the demonstration and the sort of official reaction we see here? Also, the difference in DM’s coverage?

Question: Half of US knows that legacy media is PsyOp and still watch them /haven't cancelled anything that pay them? Shouldn't be a mass exit from twitter/youtube/facebook/cable with legacy media / of all people who know that? Lieutenant Commander Data

Here we go . . . https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/06/us/trucker-convoy-protest-washington-dc-sunday/index.html

On Sunday, the House Sergeant at Arms William Walker announced that the Capitol Police Board had issued an emergency declaration in response to the convoys' arrival. "The Capitol Police Board has issued an emergency declaration to ensure that the US Capitol police are able to operate and respond as necessary," Walker said in a letter to all members of Congress and staff.

The I-Word, insurrectionists, hovers unstated but implied. Contrast Summer of 2020 when arson was across the street from the White House, KF PS, anyone notice the contrast between media minimalisation of the demonstration and the sort of official reaction we see here? Also, the difference in DM's coverage? kairosfocus

Another article with dozens of photos of Truckers on Washington Beltway today. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10583241/Peoples-Convoy-circles-Washington-DC-Beltway-promises-hold-line.html jerry

You mean, if a landslide is strong enough you can't agit prop, lawfare and cheat your way around it? kairosfocus

why is there a rollback on masks

Elections. jerry

Mob slander power exemplified https://www.wnd.com/2022/03/christian-student-sues-school-campaign-portray-violent/ kairosfocus

PPS, why is there a rollback on masks etc just now? https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2022/03/why-are-covid-restrictions-coming-off.php kairosfocus

PS, Dr Robert Malone responds https://rumble.com/vwgsik-dr.-robert-malone-on-the-cdc-directors-4-big-admissions.html kairosfocus

F/N: It seems, details include:

The FDA on Tuesday released a large tranche of Pfizer clinical trials documents in response to a Freedom of Information (FOIA) request by the Public Health and Medical Professionals for Transparency. The documents show that the company knew people were at risk of experiencing more than 1,000 unique adverse side-effects to the mRNA injections. Additionally, scientists last week revealed that Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine can enter human liver cells and be converted into DNA—something the fact-checkers and the U.S. Centers for Disease Control assured the public could never happen. Scientists also recently discovered that a sequence of genetic material patented by Moderna in 2018 bears a suspicious similarity to the spike protein in Sars-Cov2. And a new study published on March 2 found that the synthetic mRNA found in the vaccines does not degrade quickly as promised, but continues to produce spike proteins for nearly two weeks . . . . “Hong Kong hospitals can’t keep up with the deaths amid an Omicron surge,” reads a recent New York Times headline. “Dead bodies are piling up on gurneys in hospital hallways as Hong Kong’s health system is overloaded by its biggest Covid-19 outbreak of the pandemic.” In the United Kingdom, only 394 vaccine-free persons died in weeks 5-8 of 2022, compared to the 3,527 who were vaccinated, according to the UK Health Security Agency. This means unvaccinated Brits only comprised 10 percent of all COVID deaths during those weeks . . . . In the face of failure, tyrannical medical policies continue to disrupt our lives, including the military mandate, the CMS mandate, the blocking of early treatments, and the appalling push to inject children with the ineffective experimental vaccines.

They add:

The list [of potential adverse reactions] includes acute kidney injury, acute flaccid myelitis, anti-sperm antibody positive, brain stem embolism, brain stem thrombosis, cardiac arrest, cardiac failure, cardiac ventricular thrombosis, cardiogenic shock [--> Shane Warne, is this you?] , central nervous system vasculitis, death neonatal, deep vein thrombosis, encephalitis brain stem, encephalitis hemorrhagic, frontal lobe epilepsy, foaming at mouth, epileptic psychosis, facial paralysis, fetal distress syndrome, gastrointestinal amyloidosis, generalized tonic-clonic seizure, Hashimoto’s encephalopathy, hepatic vascular thrombosis, herpes zoster reactivation, immune-mediated hepatitis, interstitial lung disease, jugular vein embolism, juvenile myoclonic epilepsy, liver injury, low birth weight, multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children, myocarditis, neonatal seizure, pancreatitis, pneumonia, stillbirth, tachycardia, temporal lobe epilepsy, testicular autoimmunity, thrombotic cerebral infarction, Type 1 diabetes mellitus, venous thrombosis neonatal, and vertebral artery thrombosis among 1,246 other medical conditions following vaccination.

This came out by FOIA action. Consider, here, that the well tested treatments, in reasonable doses, have little side effects and credibly function to prevent progressing down the U/L track of such a disease. Once, given early enough. Then, consider the impact of the official push to suppress such, down to locking up Quercetin, a supplement coming from apple peels. We need to ask some pretty pointed questions. KF kairosfocus

C19 is out of the headlines. This is mainly attributed to the Ukraine invasion. However, it may also be due to potential devastating findings about the vaccines.

COVID Vaccine Bombshells You Probably Missed When a critical mass of American people realize what has been done to them, there will need to be a reckoning. In recent weeks, there have been several stunning revelations concerning the COVID-19 mRNA vaccines—and they are being all but ignored by a corporate media eager to change the subject. The COVID pandemic now plays second fiddle to the Russia-Ukraine war in the media, but the virus continues to rage through highly vaccinated countries, afflicting the triple-vaxxed most of all According to Blaze columnist Daniel Horowitz, all of these stories are the reason why COVID has all but disappeared from headlines. The truth cannot be suppressed forever.

https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/04/covid-vaccine-bombshells-you-probably-didnt-hear-about/ jerry

Jerry, useful, a 30 mile long convoy is obviously significant. I note some remarks in the DM article, which tie into the false dilemma polarisation issue:

The People's Convoy is one of several convoys traveling to the greater D.C. area this weekend. As the caravan rallied across the nation, more truckers and protestors joined in its rank, resulting in the once eight-mile-long cavalcade now spanning a distance of 30 miles, according to Times-Reporter journalists following the group. All throughout its journey, the group was met with waves of supporters decked out in red-white-and-blue attire holding signs and flags on interstate overpasses. 'It's a high, seeing all the people on the overpasses and the sides of the roads,' Idaho-based freight trucker Craig Brown, 53, told the Washington Post. 'All these people treating us like we are heroes.' 'The American people have supported these guys so much,' Nevada resident Trish Glatter, who wrecked her pickup truck in Oklahoma, said in an interview with the Times-Reporter Friday. 'It cost about $800 to fill one of these trucks up with gas and this is being paid for by the American people.' Glatter said her fellow convoyers wouldn't let the accident deter her mission and instead offered for her to ride with them to D.C.: 'This is a group of truckers of men and women that are so together. Everyone is a peaceful family on a mission that they will not step back from.' Similarly, bystanders are hailing the truckers as 'brave' heroes fighting for their freedoms. 'I think our country is being taken over by people that don't have our best interest at heart and we are just here to wave our flags and support the truck drivers that are brave enough to do this,' supporter Sharon Hanning, of West Virginia, said. 'I have a lot of Canadian friends. I watched the Canadian convoy,' echoed Susan Johnson, of Tennessee, who also ventured to D.C. for the Jan. 6 Capitol riot. 'I love it,' she added. 'I felt that it was really important that we support the USA, the Constitution the Bill of Rights.' The People's Convoy is demanding the federal government be held accountable for imposing on the freedoms of the American people. 'We are standing up for medical freedom, for all freedoms because we feel like our Constitution needs to be restored,' convoy participant Jennifer Wahrman, of Missouri, said. She told the Times-Reporter her son was dishonorably discharged from the Kansas National Guard for refusing a direct order to get the COVID-19 vaccine. Her sister, a teacher in St. Louis, was also fired for refusing the shot. 'He has made a choice to not take it after doing his own personal research and he is entitled to that, we feel,' she said. 'Originally he was going to get a general discharge which is still not OK but they have decided that since the command directed it he would be disobeying a direct order and will be dishonorably discharge. That's the reason we are here.'

In short, petition for redress of grievance, particularly tied to excesses and possible abuses of official power. KF PS, we can also see the you are extremists talking points. Fits right in with the false dilemma and polarisation issue. There is a real grievance that is not going to go away because people have had insult added to injury. kairosfocus

Long article with lots of photos. We will know in next couple days more of what they are/will do. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10580801/Nearly-Peoples-Convoy-rolls-Maryland-approaches-final-destination-DC.html jerry

NBC affiliate report earlier today https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/truck-convoy-expected-to-enter-dc-area-saturday/2991174/ kairosfocus

Another one worth a chuckle.

Trucker convoy protest in Washington DC flops as no-one shows up Organisers had expected thousands of people to attend Freedom Convoy event https://twitter.com/jmduhnke/status/1500149100326625287?s=21

Scamp

This made me laugh. It’s like protesting winter at the end of March.

“ A trucker convoy finally reaching Washington to protest COVID-19 mandates -- now that almost all mandates have been lifted -- is like the American version of Japanese in caves still fighting World War II in the 1950s” https://twitter.com/will_bunch/status/1500095114781286403?s=21

Scamp

Sev, first, strawman. A protest is neither a policy nor a regime, it is petition for redress. When it comes to the pandemic, as I noted in the Canadian thread 4,

The point is, experts disagree here, and we need to look at evidence seriously to arrive at soundness or at least that secondary soundness we call prudence. What you have instead been doing is to attend to the narrative by officialdom dressed up in medical and lab coats, without pausing to calibrate against facts, logic and associated assumptions. Robert Malone, for example is a key originator of mRNA technology, indeed a patent holder and has spent his career on addressing infectious diseases etc. McCullough is an eminent academic medical practitioner and one of the people who led in the global response. And we can keep going, indeed I would argue that the smeared Raoult is comparably eminent to Fauci. And so forth. However, we can go to facts on the ground, and a key one is to compare what happened in Uttar Pradesh India with Zelenko-McCollough derived protocols and low vax rates [ 240+ mn in a poor state of India] and what happened in Israel now on jab no 4 in a year and the pattern of vaxxed people catching, being hospitalised and even dying in the UK, just for starters, as that is now not sampling but population/census level results. The facts are clear, and they indict officialdom, especially after we see the 50 steps pattern summarised above.

Here are the 50+ steps. There is need for a serious rethink and fresh approach. KF kairosfocus

Who is in the US Trucker convoy?

WHO WE ARE: We are truckers, moms, students, nurses, doctors, investors, county workers, teachers, cowboys, loggers, engineers, sanitation workers, professors, cashiers, flight attendants, pilots, sales reps, physical therapists. WE ARE, fathers, mothers, sisters, brothers, married, single, divorced, separated, gay, straight. WE ARE Black, White, Asian, Native American. WE ARE immigrants, natives: WE ARE citizens of the free world. To our elected officials that believe they rule us: YOU work for US. Our constitution was written to provide enough power to act on a national level, but not enough to deprive the people of fundamental rights. The people are prepared to see this challenge through — as we have seen through all challenges to our Freedom in the past. And we will prevail and prosper. To our brave and courageous neighbors to the North — our Canadian brothers and sisters who led the charge — we join your call to Freedom with THE PEOPLE’S CONVOY. LET THE GOLDEN LIGHT OF LIBERTY BURN BRIGHT: LET FREEDOM ROLL!!

They represent all of the US not just the elites funded by Wall Street who owns Big Pharma and the news that a large percentage still read/watch. Again , here are the elites driving the agenda that is undermining a sane world. Nearly everyone is missing the real story on what’s happening.

Figures like the World Economic Forum chairman Klaus Schwab, BlackRock’s Larry Fink, or Marty Lipton, founding partner of Wall Street’s most profitable law firm, have assumed the mantle of crypto-politician, absent the accountability of a real public servant. Asset managers like Fink, who is entrusted with $10 trillion of holdings, are willing to use their influence across the market to force smaller companies to conform with their vision of social justice by refusing to invest in them or provide financial services

https://quillette.com/2022/03/02/the-problem-with-the-diversity-dividend/ Another ironic comment by the resident anti ID, Seversky, as he endorses the elites pulling the strings. jerry

So we are endorsing government by trucker? Public health policy decided by heavy haulage drivers? Peterbilt for President? Seversky

Jerry, going by the Sandmann standard, the only thing that will get news attention on protests that do not fit the preferred agenda is ifd there is something that can be twisted into an accusation. KF kairosfocus

The US Truckers Convoy has generated almost no news. That should change as they hit the Beltway today. It’s Saturday which I’m sure was planned way ahead of time. See what happens on Monday. The Washington beltway is used by 90% of government workers to get to work. None of the conservative news sites have mentioned anything in the last few days. I did a search of several sites and nothing showed up. One article from a month ago indicated the grievances in US are less since mandates are less of a deal in US. Because of state government powers, they are less of an issue than in Canada. I get the feeling that many believe this is not necessary in US and might generate favorable attitudes toward Biden. I live in a relatively free state that just got rid of any mask mandates. Before that most were not wearing them. You still see about a 1/3 wearing them in grocery stores near my town which is a liberal part of state. But in other towns, much less. jerry

Jerry, I explicitly do not endorse and have cited on matters of simple fact. Unfortunately the GENERAL quality of media is poor. KF kairosfocus

I would not use gateway pundit as a source for anything. They consistently publish things that are not in any other source and then disappear. Here is the US convoy website.

Day 11: Saturday, March 5 Morning – Depart Hagerstown, MD AREA Evening – Arrive in the DC Beltway AREA

https://thepeoplesconvoy.org/ jerry

DEVELOPING: The US Truckers’ protest convoys converge at Hagerstown MD, head for the DC Beltway March 5th kairosfocus