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UD Live Event from Nov 3, US Election cont’d: BBC — yes the BEEB — on BLM’s Marxist founders, “[We] fought to change history and we won”

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Okay, we are looking at the victory lap being taken (a bit prematurely, methinks) by the BLM trio of marxist founders. Here is BEEB:

Black Lives Matter founders: We fought to change history and we won

Published14 hours ago

The year 2020 will be remembered for a lot of things – not least the rise of the Black Lives Matter movement around the world.

The organisation has led huge street rallies and high-profile campaigns against racism and police brutality.

Now the three women who founded the movement have told the BBC they believe it has transformed politics.

“Black people alongside our allies stood up to change the course of history and we won,” said Alicia Garza.

Garza and her BLM co-founders, Patrisse Cullors and Opal Tometi, spoke as part of the BBC 100 Women Masterclass 2020, a digital live event of masterclasses, big interviews and guests on 30 November.

If you doubted that this is a Marxism-driven, colour-culture revolution push using Critical Race Theory as key ideological wedge, there you have it from the horses’ mouths.

In short, 4th Gen War:

. . . based on colour/cultural revolution insurgency, including dirty form McFaul programme election manipulation:

Okie, Dec 17, I clip from 1333 below, a focal point:

Just remember, given the realities of 4th gen war, there is now no hard border — no specific, momentous declaratory threshold — between

a: information and influence operations [including, too often “education”];

b: politics, law and power balances stratagems, and

c: full bore high kinetics war.

The intent of all three in ruthless hands, subjugation under a new lawless oligarchy, demands that we understand that tri-polar spectrum, and that we determine to stand for a civilisation of truth, right, honour and liberty in the face of its most insidious, treacherous enemies.

H’mm, Dec 15, let’s add in the Overton Window (with hints of Plato’s Parable of the Cave), to help us understand political/policy thinking in light of BATNA points:

Where, we need to ponder the change challenge:

. . . and the Mountains/pillars of influence mapping model:

Where are we drifting to, why and how?

Now, let us continue the already in progress [for four weeks!] live event . . . from here.

First U/D, the Arizona hearing when I can get it up.

Meanwhile, ponder just what is being said now, and what it implies beyond how they would wish it spun, given their admitted Marxism. BREAKING, CONTINUING (AFTER FOUR WEEKS) . . .

U/D1: Arizona hearings:

https://youtu.be/QfC2T7UpxkI

U/D2: Ms Powell with Mr Dobbs on state of play, a case in VA on the table. Also, even as a restraining order was being debated in a see-saw back-forth, in Fulton County, a Server was taken by a technician on excuse of software update and has disappeared from chain of custody. From CA, a tape has been forwarded to Ms Powell and reveals 550 votes from 270 people, an indication of algorithmic manipulation:

Ms Powell, the entire FBI and Dept of Justice need to be hosed out with Chlorox and firehoses.

F/N: Was the Electoral College simply a way to entrench slavery — merely ramshackle defence of slavery? A discussion on republic vs direct instant effect democracy:

[PREDICTABLY, SADLY, CENSORED]

U/D2, Dec 2, hearings in MI:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZXkAv7yKgw

U/D3, Dec 2: HT BA77, we now have chain of custody on ballots going into PA by the trailer-load. The ballots seen coming in at wee hours were in similar containers:

U/D4, Dec 2: Spykman’s framework of heartland, rimland and the outer crescent of maritime Islands and continents:

This is the framework for geostrategic analysis. Desperately compressed, c 1904 Mackinder identified that rail, telegraph, telephone etc allowed mobilisation of continental resources in the heart of the Eurasian landmass that would counterweight the maritime powers, i.e. Britain with the US coming up behind. C20 can be viewed as the history of two German grabs and one Russian one, failed. Rimlands are a belt between, coast and near hinterlands. The outer arc is where maritime power and sea trade dominate. Thus, the chief maritime power guarantees global stability.

I have argued as follows c April 2016, the current US 4th gen civil war with global entanglement is a playing out of this picture. Notice the Iranian push, vulture no. 3. No Ko is a wannabe:

U/D5, Dec 2, Ordinary people have their say (and often get smeared by the media dominant narrative — a comment):

Hannity shows ordinary witnesses.Twitter so no YT link.

U/D6, Dec 4: Here is the Oct 2016 video of independent body blackbox voting dot org:

Note, from commented screen captures:

U/D7, Mr Giuliani requests disciplinary action for defamation violation of parliamentary privilege, regarding dismissal of evidence and attacking his professional integrity:

In the course of this he corrects widespread talking points: 3 cases brought not the 39 being talked about. 2,000 affidavits under penalty of law, and we know now of the video of four suitcases of ballots counted after scrutineers were dismissed, being told that counting was over for the night, in GA.

The member signalling intent to dox and harass a witness by demanding even her maiden name should take due note.

U/D8, Dec 5: Smoking gun? (Video here.) The midnight, unsupervised ballot counting in GA — though strictly, the count from its outset with scrutineers corralled, was invalid:

U/D9, Dec 7, concerns that Dominion machines have flipped votes and on a test run a sequestered machine has continued to do so:

Cf. Expert testimony:

https://youtu.be/ijtaV5Twf6o

Cybersecurity expert, Russell Ramsland is speaking under the umbrella of his affidavit.

U/D, Dec 10, Lou Dobbs on the “Russian intelligence”/ “conspiracy theory” dismissive talking points on Mr Hunter Biden (with implications that his chief asset on offer was access) and Ms Powell’s unleashing of the Kracken:

https://youtu.be/IQjjjrR9QUY

[PREDICTABLY, CENSORED]

U/D11, Dec 11: Here is a framework for addressing media spin and gaslighting, agit-prop etc:

As it is such a glaring example on what was said in the “fine people” remarks, and as Sandy brought it up, let me add this correction from the record . . . yes, transcript, on Charlottesville:

U/D13, Dec 12, here is a backgrounder on Alcibiades which also gives a useful survey of the Peloponnesian war. One hopes, this will not be censored:

U/D14, Dec 12 HT BA77, Dominion demonstrations, part 1:

. . . and part 2:

5:04 on in this part 2 shows scanning in then voting a BLANK ballot, which the operator says “totally bothers me.”

She demonstrates also how adjudicated ballots can be voted.

We separately know that the scanner can mark ballots, sold as a feature for the visually impaired.

In short there is now no responsible doubt that the sort of manipulation discussed is a real capability — means. Frustration of scrutineering creates opportunity and decisively undermines integrity of the election vote counts. Motive is easy, power in the midst of a 4th Gen Civil war, in the form of a colour-culture revolution push, theme colour black. The testimony of many witnesses, statistical red flags etc point to actual occurrence, but recall, this is secondary. The primary issue is massive injection of effectively uncontrolled mail in ballots with 3rd party ballot harvesting and similar frustration of scrutineering implying dubious chain of custody.

All of this then points to the 26 years of history going back to the PA case of 1994 and through the exposure of election gadgetry since the early 2000’s, then rejections by CA and TX as well as links to Venezuela and more.

I strongly suggest, download the videos for yourself before they vanish into the censorship black hole.

U/D15: Hima’s testimony, something needs to be fixed here:

U/D16, Dec 13: I think it is profitable to look at a backgrounder on Mountains/pillars of influence, dominant worldviews and agendas, the change challenge and the crooked yardstick effect. First, the seven mountains, a mapping model for dealing with a corrupt culture as a remnant of soundness under God (originally, Schaeffer et al, 1970’s):

Linked, the Machiavelli change-timing challenge:

Underlying problem: crooked yardsticks vs plumb-lines:

Deeper background, a sounder view on political spectrum:

Further deeper understanding of an en-darkened civilisation, adapting Schaeffer’s vision:

Our civilisation is at obvious kairos, a hinge of history, with major dangers and opportunities. It is time to be good people of the remnant in the face of an Ac 27 storm.

U/D17, Dec 14, Ms Powell on the state of the American Courts and Republic on a date that most likely will live in infamy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKfK8jkSwPA

(Has this ALREADY been censored?)

Lou Dobbs with Ms Powell:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGEmSMLgVeY

U/D18, Dec 16: A summary of the lesson of 1876/77, on the price paid for a devil’s bargain that swallowed electoral fraud:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HbSgCpPors

Yes, the Democrats refused to acknowledge fraud and a devil’s bargain was struck over 20 electors that stopped Reconstruction in a way that opened up the abuses that lingered to the 1960’s.

U/D19, Dec 19: a summary of red flags from the Navarro Report, so we can see in the context of being an evidence summary:

U/D20: The “Solar Winds” Cyber attack, apparently in progress for 6 months, with direct entanglement with the tainted election (cf. 17:00 on):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=869&v=3T9VDichLPM&feature=youtu.be

[predictably, poof!]

China is named, along with Iran and North Korea. As well as, of course, Russia having been widely deemed suspect no. 1. This is an obvious example of an information-influence operation as act of 4G war, connecting the local civil conflict in the US to the global conflict, de facto WW4. Forbes comments:

The recently discovered cyber attacks against numerous U.S. government departments and  thousands of public and private sector entities around the world, via a compromise of SolarWinds software, underscore the risks associated with third party vendors and raise questions about liability. The attacks were allegedly perpetrated by Russia and were highly sophisticated . . . .

The attackers compromised the software “signature” of SolarWinds’s Orion network monitoring software and distributed malware as a software update. Public and private encryption keys are used to “sign” software. A software update is “signed” using an encryption algorithm and the developer’s private key, which creates a hash “signature.”  This “signature” is validated by the receiver of the software update by using the sender’s public key. The signature process assures the integrity of the update and instills trust in users of the software. 

In a December 14 SEC filing, SolarWinds said that of its more than 300,000 customers, they believed that less than 18,000 entities may have downloaded the Orion update during the March-June 2020 timeframe [–> the 6 months timeline], which likely included the malware. The malware operated stealthily and exfiltrated valuable intellectual property, confidential and proprietary data, emails, and other valuable information from victims’ systems. It was unknown until prominent cybersecurity firm FireEye, also a victim of the attacks, discovered the malware and reported on the attacks on December 13, 2020.

According to FireEye, once installed in a system, the malware remained quiet for a couple of weeks and then masqueraded as the Orion Improvement Program protocol. It stored data from its internal activities within actual SolarWinds files on the system, thereby making its detection all the more difficult.  The malware had highly credentialed access to the system and could disable system services, reboot machines, exfiltrate data, execute files, change system configurations, and perform actions usually taken by a highly privileged system administrator.

That sounds rather familiar, and illustrates what happens if a trusted supplier is compromised. Gen Flynn’s remarks at 16:05 on are worth transcribing:

When we talk about our election security . . . I think this is all part of it, because there is a relationship between this solar winds attack; which has basically penetrated our entire critical infrastructure as well as our election security. So we have to look at everything we’re doing . . . okay with all of the egregious behaviour that we’ve seen on our election security we cannot stand for foreign influence, which we have direct evidence of foreign influence. We also have direct evidence now from other countries, from other foreign partners who have evidence.

In fact they were watching the attacks on our election system, on our election process on the 3rd of November and they are willing to provide that directly to the President.

So we now have that evidence and have received that today. It’s very important.

So there are foreign partners and allies that are willing to help us with our election security and this Solar Winds system is really really dangerous and more has to be done.

The likely allies obviously include Israel, likely Japan, South Korea, Taiwan and possibly Australia given the focus on China.

Again, we are back to whose report do you believe, why.

U/D21, Dec 23: It was not possible to find the 1984 Movie through a Google search (yes, they are that unconscious of the irony) but DDG showed it, here is a colour version at YT, this may be pretty important holiday viewing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wl4kt4kUE88

If that gets purged, here is Web Archive.

U/D22, Dec 28: Understand the anger of the perpetually manipulated:

One does not have to endorse the above across the board to see that it has a telling point or two about the “Uniparty” and the issue of fundamentally unaccountable elites, leading a manipulated march of folly. Here, the lesson of Ac 27 is again all too relevant.

U/D23: A Canadian Lawyer and an American Lawyer discuss — as an example — the dismissal of the Wisconsin care; an example of how the election fraud concerns are being sidelined:

U/D24, Jan 3, what the Ukrainians have to say about corruption and investigation, through an Interfax press conference. Such needs to be soberly addressed in detail:

Comments
WJM @ 1704 -
t looks like VP Mike Pence might have been the election fail-safe all along: https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/12/its_for_mike_pence_to_judge_whether_a_presidential_election_was_held_at_all.html Some will argue that the constitution doesn’t give Pence the authority to do this. However, the Constitution does not, and is not intended to, provide a detailed explanation of how the branches and offices of government do their job; it basically just describes what their job is.
True, and as you are aware the Electoral Count Act gives the details. And as you are aware, this is what the constitution says is Pence's job:
The President of the Senate [i.e. Pence] shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted.
IOW his job is simply to wield a letter opener. I gather there is some dispute about whether the constitution says he also has to be able to count. But it says nothing about him deciding which votes to open: he has to open them all. The Electoral Count Act, as you know, fills in the details, and says that if the lists of members of the electoral college are lodged with the Archivist of the United States at least six days before the Electoral College meets, Congress has to accept them. This happened for every state except Wisconsin, so they all have to be accepted, and Pence has to wield his letter opener to open them so that they may be counted.Bob O'H
December 28, 2020
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Bornagain77: JVL, instead of accepting that the video is real, claims, I guess, that the entire Ruby Freeman video was staged :),,, It's a simple and obvious thing to ask: show how you know that the video is what you claim it to be. You can show how it corresponds to other videos from the site at the same time. You can match it up to other known data. Can you do those things? Yes or no? Let's say that was your daughter in the video clip and I was baying for her blood because of what I thought she was doing. Would you just roll over and accept my interpretation of the clip? You need to establish its provenance and its authenticity. You know that. Stop making it sound like some kind of joke. You are calling into question the motivations and practices of real people and seemingly not bothering to ask any questions of whether or not your damning 'evidence' is real. Why is that? Show me that the video in question matches up with other videos from the election return sites you think it comes from. Let's start with that. BUSTED Ruby Freeman Makes Video of herself https://thedonald.win/p/11QlFgM8ob/busted–ruby-freeman-makes-video/c/ Absolutely nothing happens in that video. Nothing. What is your point?JVL
December 28, 2020
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Take e.g. name no. 458 DELACRUZ: here, the census subsumes all variations like de la Cruz, De la Cruz, De La Cruz, Delacruz, Dela-Cruz and even Delacrusz. It ignores suffixes like Sr., Jr., III. , too.DiEb
December 28, 2020
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Bob O'H: I’m asking you to explain what safeguards are used for US elections, and why they are insufficient. It’s getting comical how you repeatedly say that the safeguards aren’t good enough, but then repeatedly refuse to explain what the safeguards are, and why the are deficient. Don't you get it? Kairosfocus just knows these things. He doesn't need to prove to you how or why he knows, he just knows. Why don't you just believe him? It's like you have some problem with accepting opinions from authority figures or something. You need to stop being so hypercritical and questioning known knowledge.JVL
December 28, 2020
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JVL, instead of accepting that the video is real, claims, I guess, that the entire Ruby Freeman video was staged and is therefore fake :),,, JVL: "Show me how you know that video is of ‘Ruby Freeman’ and it was taken from the location you think it was taken from at the time you think it was taken and that it shows what you think it shows." LOL, ha ha ha, :) And that folks, is what is called being a true 'conspiracy theorist' :) BUSTED Ruby Freeman Makes Video of herself https://thedonald.win/p/11QlFgM8ob/busted--ruby-freeman-makes-video/c/bornagain77
December 28, 2020
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Why do I think that Bobby Piton takes a leap? Have a look on what he does: he took the US census data for the TOP most popular names (that SMITH to ARCHER) and found that 40.96836% of the American population are bearing one of those names. Then he "examined just over 9,008,753 records" and found that "Upon looking at the TOP 1000 Last Names in PA" he has "discovered that PA has 695,430 Fewer People in the top 1000 Last Names." So, he expected to find some 3,690,000 commonly named voters, but there were only ca. 2,995,000. 695,000 commonly named people are missing from the voter roles, surplanted by less popular names! That has to be the infamy of the Democrats! Or, as BornAgain77 puts it: "Bobby Piton essentially discovered where those 695,000+ illegal ballots came from in Pennsylvania." That's the leap. The US census bureau explains painstakingly how it scrubs its data. Here is just a short excerpt:
#All punctuation marks and spaces that were part of surnames were deleted. SMITHJONES and SMITH JONES were changed to SMITHJONES. O’HARA and O HARA became OHARA. #Many names on the raw list also contained extraneous punctuation. The punctuation was deleted, so, for example, SMITH--- became SMITH. #All reported surnames consisting of two letters separated by a space (A A, C D) were deleted from the list. #Names with more than two letters that contained extraneous spaces were edited to remove the spaces, e.g., S M I TH became SMITH. #JUNIOR, SENIOR, and THIRD were removed from the ends of names. #JR and III were deleted from both the beginning and end of names. #SR was deleted from the end of name only if the name had at least seven alphabetic characters, because several shorter names do end in SR while longer names ending in SR tended to include suffixes (e.g., NASR was kept, WILSONSR was changed to WILSON). #II was deleted from the beginning or end of a name only if it was separated by a space, because a number of names do begin or end with II (NISHII was not changed, JONES II and II JONES were both changed to JONES). #Similarly, J R and S R were deleted from the beginning or end of a name if they were separated from the rest of a name by a space (GONZALEZ S R became GONZALEZ). #IV was deleted from the end of a name if separated by a space.
I have not seen the PA voter data. But as election officials want to identify the voters clearly, I doubt that they handle the surnames the same way. So, if Bobby Piton has not taken this into account, it could easily be that the "missing Smiths" are just Smith jr., Smith Sr., or Smithx.DiEb
December 28, 2020
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kf @ 1710 - why would Norwegian banks have anything to do with US elections? I'm asking you to explain what safeguards are used for US elections, and why they are insufficient. It's getting comical how you repeatedly say that the safeguards aren't good enough, but then repeatedly refuse to explain what the safeguards are, and why the are deficient.Bob O'H
December 28, 2020
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TNCharley: If Dominion voting systems are so important to the outcome of this election, why is it that in Pennsylvania Trump actually won more votes in counties that used Dominion systems (beating Biden by about 74,000 votes in those counties) but lost the state because he was beaten by 154,000 votes in non-Dominion counties? Blasphemer! Heretic! Heathen monster! How dare you challenge the established truth of this site! I wouldn't be surprised if you weren't banned for cause immediately.JVL
December 28, 2020
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If Dominion voting systems are so important to the outcome of this election, why is it that in Pennsylvania Trump actually won more votes in counties that used Dominion systems (beating Biden by about 74,000 votes in those counties) but lost the state because he was beaten by 154,000 votes in non-Dominion counties?TNCharley
December 28, 2020
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Bornagain77: IF you guys have the evidence then bring it to a court.” Bring it to a court of law. Uncle Rudy and The Kraken didn't manage it. And not one can say why. Nothing counts unless you can bring your evidence to a court of law. So just do it. “Ruby Freeman” and ” Wandrea Shaye moss” Scan The Same Ballots 3 times in 8 mins https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqhRS6LOGRo Show me how you know that video is of 'Ruby Freeman' and it was taken from the location you think it was taken from at the time you think it was taken and that it shows what you think it shows. Go on. I'll wait.JVL
December 28, 2020
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@Silver Asiatic #1733 Sorry, something called "wordfence" prevents me from inserting my whole comment. I try to work around it.DiEb
December 28, 2020
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Silver Asiatic: My own belief was not the subject of the inquiry here. You said... Authorities are superior to their own reasoning and arguments if, in fact, the authority was established by God. I asked for an example. It is the belief of those who heard the voice from heaven. You asked for an example and I provided it – then you shifted the topic to my own beliefs. I asked for an instance. You provided something you believe is an instance, for some reason. Are you making the claim that your own beliefs are divorced from the example you are giving? Anyone can make up a story about some example of a statement of divine authority. The dialog between Krishna and Arjuna for example. Or my son prayed to Santa Claus and Santa shows up and proclaims that he created the world. Do you think these qualifies as examples of what I asked you for? The point is, unless you're making some claim that some entity directly show up to you and made some irresistible claim that bypasses human reason, then your human reason is the final arbiter and judge of what is authoritative. You cannot escape it. Which kinda makes your original statement moot. Any authority that is established by the authority-maker would be, well, an authority by definition. Determining what, if any of those exist, outside of a direct and irresistible communication from the authority-maker, requires the activity of human reason, thus making human reason the final arbiter for anyone not receiving direct and irresistible communication from the authority-maker.mike1962
December 28, 2020
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JVL, says IF,,, "IF you guys have the evidence then bring it to a court." IF ??? LOL :) IF ??? :) Let me introduce you to Ruby Freeman JVL,,, "Ruby Freeman" and " Wandrea Shaye moss" Scan The Same Ballots 3 times in 8 mins https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqhRS6LOGRobornagain77
December 28, 2020
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So whatever conclusion you’ve come to about this 2000 year old controversial story is based on your own rational assessment of evidence.
My own belief was not the subject of the inquiry here. It is the belief of those who heard the voice from heaven. You asked for an example and I provided it - then you shifted the topic to my own beliefs. Again, the recognition of divine authority did not come from argumentation that Jesus provided - and that's the refutation of the idea that authority is a function of arguments made by the individual.Silver Asiatic
December 28, 2020
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Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee Witness Statement of Jesse Binnall December 16, 2020 Excerpt: The election was inevitably riddled with fraud and our hotline never stopped ringing. While the media and the democrats accused us of making it all up, our team began chasing down every lead. Our evidence came both from data scientists and brave whistleblowers. Here is what we found: • Over 42,000 people voted more than once. Our experts were able to make this determination by reviewing the list of actual voters and comparing it to other voters with the same name, address, and date of birth. This method was also able to catch people using different first name variations, such as William and Bill, and individuals who were registered both under a married name and a maiden name. • At least 1,500 dead people are recorded as voting, as shown by comparing the list of mail voters with the social security death records. • More than 19,000 people voted even though they did not live in Nevada; to be clear, this does not include military voters or students. These voters were identified by comparing the lists of voters with the U.S. Postal Service’s National Change of Address database, among other sources. • About 8,000 people voted from non-existent addresses. Here we cross- referenced voters with the Coding Accuracy Support System which allowed our experts to identify undeliverable addresses. • Over 15,000 votes were cast from commercial or vacant addresses. Our experts found these voters by analyzing official U.S. Postal Service records that flag non- residential addresses and addresses vacant for more than 90 days. • Incredibly, almost 4,000 non-citizens also voted, as determined by comparing official DMV records of non-citizens to the list of voters in the 2020 election. The list goes on. All in all, our experts identified over 130,000 unique instances of voter fraud in Nevada. But the actual number is almost certainly higher. Our data scientists made these calculations not by estimations or statistical sampling, but by analyzing and comparing the list of actual voters with other lists, most of which are publicly available. To put it simply, they explained their methods so that others could check their work. Our evidence has never been refuted, only ignored.,,, https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Testimony-Binnall-2020-12-16.pdf Of note, the Chairman of the Senate hearing, Senator Johnson, directly asked Christopher Krebs if he denied the validity Binnall's evidence. Kreb's did not deny its validity, nor did any Democrats in the hearing challenge the validity of Binnall's evidence for massive voter fraud in Nevada. (which included at least 1,500 dead people voting)bornagain77
December 28, 2020
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Silver Asiatic: When Jesus was transfigured on the mountain, a voice from heaven was heard by the witnesses there saying: “This is my beloved son, listen to him”. So, that’s an example of a divinely-appointed authority. You weren't there (I assume.) So whatever conclusion you've come to about this 2000 year old controversial story is based on your own rational assessment of evidence. Your own human reason is the final arbiter and final authority regarding what you accept as true. No escaping that.mike1962
December 28, 2020
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Bornagain77: The Constitution specifically says States suing other States can file Original Complaints with the Supreme Court. And while, generally, it may be true one State can’t complain about another State violating its own laws—-what in the world does that have to do with a situation where the 50 States jointly elect a President? With all due (rapidly diminishing) respect, what the Supreme Court said is utter nonsense. In the most important game in history, Michael (Jordan) took the ball, put it down on the court, and walked away as time ran out.,,, Well, sorry to say, I think I'll take the word of nine trained and experienced adjudicators over yours. With the 2020 election, there will be grave consequences following the Supreme Court’s insistence on being left alone. Earlier, I focused on the beginning section of the Declaration of Independence, the part saying a just government only exists with the consent of the People through free and fair elections. The Declaration of Independence is not the same thing as the US Constitution. Between the two of them was the Articles of Confederation but you don't see anyone quoting those anymore. Your side lost. Plain and simple. You can't twist and distort the process just to get your way. The 'evidence' your side has provided has not stood up to scrutiny. Much of it is easy for anyone to find fault with. But you just keep doubling down and stamping your feet and insisting you're right. You're starting to sound like the caricature you promulgate of those who believe in unguided evolutionary theory: impervious to contrary evidence. Perhaps you should consider your position a bit more carefully. post 1739 Bring that evidence to a court of law. The Trumpsters didn't manage it. Why is that do you think? Could it be that your 'evidence' is actually not very good legally? IF you guys have the evidence then bring it to a court. No more fussing and claiming and asserting. Bring it to a court. If you have that much evidence then it should be easy. Just do it.JVL
December 28, 2020
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Mike
Can you point to any examples?
When Jesus was transfigured on the mountain, a voice from heaven was heard by the witnesses there saying: "This is my beloved son, listen to him". So, that's an example of a divinely-appointed authority. It's not from Jesus' argumentation about Himself, but from God's command. (A similar voice was heard during his Baptism. And another time before his trial in Jerusalem).
And how would you determine they are indeed divinely appointed authorities as they claim without judging them using your own powers of reason?
As above the process is not through a rational debate among options and then arrival at a conclusion. The recognition is immediate. When the apostles saw Jesus standing in their midst, and when St. Thomas touched him after his resurrection, his authority was established as divine. Their acceptance was not due to philosophical argumentation but by direct witness of the miraculous.Silver Asiatic
December 28, 2020
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TNCharley: Why are the statements of people with extensive knowledge of the election process discounted but the affidavits from people who “saw something” but may not have had the full picture are treated as the gospel truth? I am aware that there are allegations that “thousands” of dead people voted. Those should be easy to prove. Why has that proof not been brought forward. Motivated reasoning.JVL
December 28, 2020
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A Supreme Court in Hiding is Dangerous for Our Country - December 28, 2020 Excerpt: Americans paying attention to the 2020 Election must be baffled by our courts. A thousand sworn statements about election wrongdoing, bizarre 4 a.m. “vote spikes” for one candidate, hundreds of thousands of ballots driven from one state to the another, counting machines with 68% error rates, etc., etc. Such claims should at least get a day in court. Yet so far, they can’t get a sniff. With few exceptions, no state or federal court in our country has had the courage to look at the merits of these claims. The most significant challenge to our Constitutional Republic since the first Civil War can’t get a parking ticket.,,, In a stroke of brilliance every non-brainwashed citizen could see, the State of Texas stepped up with the answer. An original complaint to the Supreme Court where the States that followed their election laws sued the States that violated theirs. The claim was also simple -- we jointly elect the President as a group of 50 States and our vote is being nullified since four States cheated. The argument was especially strong because if results from the four cheating States were reversed the election result changed. Since State vs. State is an original complaint to the Supreme Court (not an appeal) the Court had the flexibility to handle it any way they wanted. Twenty-three other States and the campaigns joined in, making it a perfect solution because almost all the players were present and the Court could do whatever was right. Well, the Supreme Court justices decided to do the one thing that wasn’t right -- they ran and hid. “Texas, you have no standing to complain about another State violating its own laws.” What? The Constitution specifically says States suing other States can file Original Complaints with the Supreme Court. And while, generally, it may be true one State can’t complain about another State violating its own laws—-what in the world does that have to do with a situation where the 50 States jointly elect a President? With all due (rapidly diminishing) respect, what the Supreme Court said is utter nonsense. In the most important game in history, Michael (Jordan) took the ball, put it down on the court, and walked away as time ran out.,,, With the 2020 election, there will be grave consequences following the Supreme Court’s insistence on being left alone. Earlier, I focused on the beginning section of the Declaration of Independence, the part saying a just government only exists with the consent of the People through free and fair elections. The next part of the Declaration has a much darker side which the Supreme Court may bring into play if it stays in its rabbit hole. The Declaration is plain: The People have a duty to overthrow the government if it is not justly based on their collective consent. That duty reaches a critical stage when all the institutions fail them. The Supreme Court may have been our last hope. So far, the justices have utterly failed us. Assuming the Supreme Court continues to avoid its primary reason for living -- protecting the Constitution -- can we expect a Second Declaration of Independence, followed by conflict, to address this fundamental failure? I hope not. That is the last thing any of us should wish. Fortunately, the Supreme Court has the power to avoid such an outcome by protecting election integrity. If it does not and, instead, completes the failure of our political and judicial institutions, history will record that the Supreme Court’s dereliction was a major cause of any conflict that follows. At the moment the People need them most, the Justices are running and hiding. Disgraceful. They must step up to keep the future of our Country safe and whole. https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/12/a_supreme_court_in_hiding_is_dangerous_for_our_country.html#ixzz6hxDe5wu3bornagain77
December 28, 2020
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Kairosfocus: Let me clip what you think is discrediting about Mr Pence, judging by your not who you’d vote for, as it is inadvertently highly revealing: I only mentioned that I, personally, would not vote for Mr Pence. BUT, I also said, it's up to the voters of whatever constituency he chooses to stand for. I will support the voters making the choice regarding him regardless of whether or not I agree with them. I believe and support the US system. Even when I lose. Can you say the same? I am NOT going to answer your points because that was not the point of my post. If you want to debate some of his policy choices then make that a separate thread where it would be appropriate to discuss them separate from the election issues.JVL
December 28, 2020
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Silver Asiatic: if, in fact, the authority was established by God. Can you point to any examples? And how would you determine they are indeed divinely appointed authorities as they claim without judging them using your own powers of reason?mike1962
December 28, 2020
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DiEb 1726 I don't know why that's a leap. The expectation was for 40% of the names to appear and only 33% of them did. So, 17% fewer than expected. That's far outside what a statistically consistent result would show. (I say this without having or studying the data).Silver Asiatic
December 28, 2020
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KF
And we have all benefitted from that, not least through the impacts of the great awakenings of the Wesleyan era and the very first civil rights movement, targetting slavery.
We have benefitted from it, yes. Americans benefited from religious freedom and neutrality and Europe has adopted much of the same after the various revolutions. But there's a downside also that I think we'll see more of as atheism and secularism increase.
PS: Protestantism is very much still with us.
Yes, true. I was just speaking of an overall and consistent body of doctrine. The fragmentation and diversity among Protestant theologians makes it almost impossible to summarize the belief system. I'm thinking even of Open Theism (openess theology) which denies the classical Western theological attributes of God.
Nor, is it reducible to subjectivism. Argument pivots on two different things, persuasion and warrant. Save these hinges be aligned, there is a failure of prudence, steersman of the chariot of the virtues. Emotions are no better than underlying discernment and judgement, authorities are no better than their facts and reasoning. So, it is ever to the balance of warrant on material facts and the logic of right reason applied to circumstances that we must needs go.
Yes, but subjectivism would not just be an emotional response, but also the belief that all Christian doctrines must be evaluated and derivable by human reason alone. Authorities are superior to their own reasoning and arguments if, in fact, the authority was established by God.Silver Asiatic
December 28, 2020
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There is a long-standing body of evidence from states that DO conduct their elections by mail-in ballots that even though there are a number of "possible" avenues for fraud, "actual" fraud is very rate indeed. I am aware that election officials in one state that is much discussed (Georgia) said that signatures were checked more than once at different stages of the process. Why are the statements of people with extensive knowledge of the election process discounted but the affidavits from people who "saw something" but may not have had the full picture are treated as the gospel truth? I am aware that there are allegations that "thousands" of dead people voted. Those should be easy to prove. Why has that proof not been brought forward.TNCharley
December 28, 2020
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TNC, it is enough that just one state did that particular extreme measure, but the issue does not stop there. You need to engage a longstanding body of evidence, concerns and public facts and what has emerged surrounding this election. Kindly note the tabulation here, again https://hereistheevidence.com/ it is obvious for instance that you are unaware of what happened with signatures and signature matching, as was testified and is in affidavits. There is much more. KFkairosfocus
December 28, 2020
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JVL, Let me clip what you think is discrediting about Mr Pence, judging by your not who you'd vote for, as it is inadvertently highly revealing: >> Pence is an opponent of abortion, >> - that is, he objects to the worst, ongoing holocaust in history. - by extension, do you see what you endorse and would enable? >> Pence has criticized comprehensive sex education.>> - too often, exposing kids to the techniques of vice and undermining moral principles. >> Pence opposed President Obama’s executive order eliminating restrictions on embryonic stem-cell research,>> - further to holocaust . . . >>saying, “I believe it is morally wrong to create human life to destroy it for research>> - dead right >> On January 27, 2017, Pence spoke at the March for Life in Washington, D.C.,>> - In short, he has the courage to stand up to holocaust. >> Pence has said he supports an overturn of Roe v. Wade,>> - ditto >> Pence has been a vocal opponent of efforts to expand LGBT civil rights,>> - rights trace to our humanity as responsible, rational, significantly free morally governed creatures; the notion of "expanding" rights is a fundamental and destructive fallacy - further to such, as a right is a binding moral claim to be upheld by others in a particular way such as respecting life, liberty etc, one may only justly claim a right by being in the right. In particular, there is no right to compel another to do or to enable one in doing wrong. - homosexuals etc have no more and no fewer rights than others. >> In 2007, Pence voted against the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, which would have banned workplace discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.[313]>> - this is of course an example of the problem just pointed out >> Pence opposes both same-sex marriage and civil unions.[319]>> - these acts under colour and ceremony of law try to invent what is not and impose in the first instance. - in the second, people may enter contracts and live in groups as they wish, within lawful behaviour; however using such to impose radical agendas is a highly questionable exercise. I note, within lawful behaviour is a pivotal stipulation, without expanding on the sorts of chaos that the second of these terms invites. >> While in the House, he said that “societal collapse was always brought about following an advent of the deterioration of marriage and family.”[320]>> - he is right, as we can see in progress all around us. >> Pence “does not accept the scientific consensus >> - fallacious appeal to collective authority to suppress a significant scientific debate, a now all too familiar pattern of imposing a lockstep narrative >>that human activity is the primary driver of climate change”.[376]>> - kindly show us where such is actually empirically warranted to moral certainty . . . given the pessimistic induction, such explanatory constructions, models and theories as are conventionally termed sciences do not ever amount to moral certainty. Observe the breakdown of Classical Physics to see a capital case in point. Nor is this claim a fact of actual observation. >> When asked by Chris Matthews in 2009 if he believed in evolution, Pence said “I believe with all my heart that God created the heavens and the earth, the seas and all that is in them. How he did that, I’ll ask him about some day.”[301][379]>> - that is, he is a theist, that it is suggested that this is somehow disqualifying speaks huge volumes and not to your credit. >> In a 2002 statement on the floor of the House of Representatives (reported in the Congressional Record), Pence told his colleagues “… I also believe that someday scientists will come to see that only the theory of intelligent design provides even a remotely rational explanation for the known universe.”[409][410]>> -- Good. He recognises fine tuning of the observed cosmos and how replete it is with signs pointing to design. - by inference on contents of the cosmos, he probably also recognises that cell based life pivoting on such fine tuning and further showing alphanumeric, linguistic code and associated algorithms in the heart of the cell strongly points to the only reliably known source of verbal language, string based code, algorithms etc, design. - your empirical observation based account of how a fine tuned cosmos comes to be without design is ______ and your similarly empirical observation founded account of how language, complex string based alphanumeric codes and algorithms etc arise via blind chance and/or mechanical necessity is _____ KFkairosfocus
December 28, 2020
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KF, regarding "effectively uncontrolled mail-in ballots" I don't think this describes the situation. Only 11 states mailed ballots to all eligible voters. In five of those states (Oregon, Colorado, Washington, Utah, Hawaii) this is the normal way they conduct all elections. So it's not like somehow the laws were radically changed because of the pandemic. Additionally, have you thought through the logistics of using mailed ballots to fraudulently win an election? In my state you would have to A) have a list of eligible voters so you could apply for an absentee ballot; B) Have ESP so you could predict which voters would not be voting, because too many people showing up at the polls saying they hadn't requested to vote absentee would blow up the scheme; C) be able to forge the signature on the ballot application; D) forge a matching signature when you return the ballot. And so on. Not to mention that many states (like the one I hail from) only altered their absentee ballot rules at the last "minute" so you had to get your nefarious scheme into place in a very tight timeframe.TNCharley
December 28, 2020
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TNC (attn BO'H & JVL): You describe what should be done, but the pivot of all of this is destabilisation of the current elections through a campaign that has led to effectively uncontrolled mail-in ballots, multiplied by 3rd party ballot harvesting, further by frustration of scrutineering. For which there has been abundant evidence and credible testimony under the shadow of sworn affidavits. Further to this, there are secondary issues such as demonstrably flawed, fraud-conducive gadgetry, improper operation of election centres (often connected to frustration of scrutineering), telling surveillance videos, now analyses of voting machine etc contents and far-fluctuation patterns in ballots from key locations. There is much more [try the archival evidence tabulation: https://hereistheevidence.com/ ], but that testimony is decisive, as is the impact of campaigns that undermine identification requirements. The upshot of your attempted comebacks is that you know that the benchmark I put up is valid, you SHOULD know the evidence and public facts that are at stake, but you are determined to dismiss the issue. That says a lot, none of it good. And no, this issue is not going to be sidelined through dominant narratives, this was the point where things went too far. KF PS, HT WJM in 1718, let's take a clip from a comment by VP Pence on the shenanigans that have been going on through the army of lawyers and activists that were sent out, specifically on the destabilising elements I pointed to:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1290472877737693184 Well, look, the president made it very clear, whether it’s the power grab in Nevada, the governor of Nevada was signing (a bill) that allowed not only for universal mail-in ballots but also vote harvesting, as it’s called, we’re headed to the courts. Look, the right to vote, the one-person, one-vote right, is at the very center of our democracy, and the president’s made it very clear that we are not going to stand idly by while you see Democrat states, Democrat governors use the backdrop of the coronavirus to send millions of ballots all across their states and all across this country.
Please tell me how such behaviour passes the bank benchmark on handling cash and accounts: ______kairosfocus
December 28, 2020
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(Sorry, half of my comment did not get posted. 2nd try:) Then he "examined just over 9,008,753 records" and found that "Upon looking at the TOP 1000 Last Names in PA" he has "discovered that PA has 695,430 Fewer People in the top 1000 Last Names." So, he expected to find some 3,690,000 commonly named voters, but there were only ca. 2,995,000.DiEb
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