Okay, we are looking at the victory lap being taken (a bit prematurely, methinks) by the BLM trio of marxist founders. Here is BEEB:
Black Lives Matter founders: We fought to change history and we won
Published14 hours ago
The year 2020 will be remembered for a lot of things – not least the rise of the Black Lives Matter movement around the world.
The organisation has led huge street rallies and high-profile campaigns against racism and police brutality.
Now the three women who founded the movement have told the BBC they believe it has transformed politics.
“Black people alongside our allies stood up to change the course of history and we won,” said Alicia Garza.
Garza and her BLM co-founders, Patrisse Cullors and Opal Tometi, spoke as part of the BBC 100 Women Masterclass 2020, a digital live event of masterclasses, big interviews and guests on 30 November.
If you doubted that this is a Marxism-driven, colour-culture revolution push using Critical Race Theory as key ideological wedge, there you have it from the horses’ mouths.
In short, 4th Gen War:
. . . based on colour/cultural revolution insurgency, including dirty form McFaul programme election manipulation:
Okie, Dec 17, I clip from 1333 below, a focal point:
Just remember, given the realities of 4th gen war, there is now no hard border — no specific, momentous declaratory threshold — between
a: information and influence operations [including, too often “education”];
b: politics, law and power balances stratagems, and
c: full bore high kinetics war.
The intent of all three in ruthless hands, subjugation under a new lawless oligarchy, demands that we understand that tri-polar spectrum, and that we determine to stand for a civilisation of truth, right, honour and liberty in the face of its most insidious, treacherous enemies.
H’mm, Dec 15, let’s add in the Overton Window (with hints of Plato’s Parable of the Cave), to help us understand political/policy thinking in light of BATNA points:
Where, we need to ponder the change challenge:
. . . and the Mountains/pillars of influence mapping model:
Where are we drifting to, why and how?
Now, let us continue the already in progress [for four weeks!] live event . . . from here.
First U/D, the Arizona hearing when I can get it up.
Meanwhile, ponder just what is being said now, and what it implies beyond how they would wish it spun, given their admitted Marxism. BREAKING, CONTINUING (AFTER FOUR WEEKS) . . .
U/D1: Arizona hearings:
U/D2: Ms Powell with Mr Dobbs on state of play, a case in VA on the table. Also, even as a restraining order was being debated in a see-saw back-forth, in Fulton County, a Server was taken by a technician on excuse of software update and has disappeared from chain of custody. From CA, a tape has been forwarded to Ms Powell and reveals 550 votes from 270 people, an indication of algorithmic manipulation:
Ms Powell, the entire FBI and Dept of Justice need to be hosed out with Chlorox and firehoses.
F/N: Was the Electoral College simply a way to entrench slavery — merely ramshackle defence of slavery? A discussion on republic vs direct instant effect democracy:
[PREDICTABLY, SADLY, CENSORED]
U/D2, Dec 2, hearings in MI:
U/D3, Dec 2: HT BA77, we now have chain of custody on ballots going into PA by the trailer-load. The ballots seen coming in at wee hours were in similar containers:
U/D4, Dec 2: Spykman’s framework of heartland, rimland and the outer crescent of maritime Islands and continents:
This is the framework for geostrategic analysis. Desperately compressed, c 1904 Mackinder identified that rail, telegraph, telephone etc allowed mobilisation of continental resources in the heart of the Eurasian landmass that would counterweight the maritime powers, i.e. Britain with the US coming up behind. C20 can be viewed as the history of two German grabs and one Russian one, failed. Rimlands are a belt between, coast and near hinterlands. The outer arc is where maritime power and sea trade dominate. Thus, the chief maritime power guarantees global stability.
I have argued as follows c April 2016, the current US 4th gen civil war with global entanglement is a playing out of this picture. Notice the Iranian push, vulture no. 3. No Ko is a wannabe:
U/D5, Dec 2, Ordinary people have their say (and often get smeared by the media dominant narrative — a comment):
Hannity shows ordinary witnesses.Twitter so no YT link.
U/D6, Dec 4: Here is the Oct 2016 video of independent body blackbox voting dot org:
Note, from commented screen captures:
U/D7, Mr Giuliani requests disciplinary action for defamation violation of parliamentary privilege, regarding dismissal of evidence and attacking his professional integrity:
In the course of this he corrects widespread talking points: 3 cases brought not the 39 being talked about. 2,000 affidavits under penalty of law, and we know now of the video of four suitcases of ballots counted after scrutineers were dismissed, being told that counting was over for the night, in GA.
The member signalling intent to dox and harass a witness by demanding even her maiden name should take due note.
U/D8, Dec 5: Smoking gun? (Video here.) The midnight, unsupervised ballot counting in GA — though strictly, the count from its outset with scrutineers corralled, was invalid:
U/D9, Dec 7, concerns that Dominion machines have flipped votes and on a test run a sequestered machine has continued to do so:
Cf. Expert testimony:
Cybersecurity expert, Russell Ramsland is speaking under the umbrella of his affidavit.
U/D, Dec 10, Lou Dobbs on the “Russian intelligence”/ “conspiracy theory” dismissive talking points on Mr Hunter Biden (with implications that his chief asset on offer was access) and Ms Powell’s unleashing of the Kracken:
[PREDICTABLY, CENSORED]
U/D11, Dec 11: Here is a framework for addressing media spin and gaslighting, agit-prop etc:
As it is such a glaring example on what was said in the “fine people” remarks, and as Sandy brought it up, let me add this correction from the record . . . yes, transcript, on Charlottesville:
U/D13, Dec 12, here is a backgrounder on Alcibiades which also gives a useful survey of the Peloponnesian war. One hopes, this will not be censored:
U/D14, Dec 12 HT BA77, Dominion demonstrations, part 1:
. . . and part 2:
5:04 on in this part 2 shows scanning in then voting a BLANK ballot, which the operator says “totally bothers me.”
She demonstrates also how adjudicated ballots can be voted.
We separately know that the scanner can mark ballots, sold as a feature for the visually impaired.
In short there is now no responsible doubt that the sort of manipulation discussed is a real capability — means. Frustration of scrutineering creates opportunity and decisively undermines integrity of the election vote counts. Motive is easy, power in the midst of a 4th Gen Civil war, in the form of a colour-culture revolution push, theme colour black. The testimony of many witnesses, statistical red flags etc point to actual occurrence, but recall, this is secondary. The primary issue is massive injection of effectively uncontrolled mail in ballots with 3rd party ballot harvesting and similar frustration of scrutineering implying dubious chain of custody.
All of this then points to the 26 years of history going back to the PA case of 1994 and through the exposure of election gadgetry since the early 2000’s, then rejections by CA and TX as well as links to Venezuela and more.
I strongly suggest, download the videos for yourself before they vanish into the censorship black hole.
U/D15: Hima’s testimony, something needs to be fixed here:
U/D16, Dec 13: I think it is profitable to look at a backgrounder on Mountains/pillars of influence, dominant worldviews and agendas, the change challenge and the crooked yardstick effect. First, the seven mountains, a mapping model for dealing with a corrupt culture as a remnant of soundness under God (originally, Schaeffer et al, 1970’s):
Linked, the Machiavelli change-timing challenge:
Underlying problem: crooked yardsticks vs plumb-lines:
Deeper background, a sounder view on political spectrum:
Further deeper understanding of an en-darkened civilisation, adapting Schaeffer’s vision:
Our civilisation is at obvious kairos, a hinge of history, with major dangers and opportunities. It is time to be good people of the remnant in the face of an Ac 27 storm.
U/D17, Dec 14, Ms Powell on the state of the American Courts and Republic on a date that most likely will live in infamy:
(Has this ALREADY been censored?)
U/D18, Dec 16: A summary of the lesson of 1876/77, on the price paid for a devil’s bargain that swallowed electoral fraud:
Yes, the Democrats refused to acknowledge fraud and a devil’s bargain was struck over 20 electors that stopped Reconstruction in a way that opened up the abuses that lingered to the 1960’s.
U/D19, Dec 19: a summary of red flags from the Navarro Report, so we can see in the context of being an evidence summary:
U/D20: The “Solar Winds” Cyber attack, apparently in progress for 6 months, with direct entanglement with the tainted election (cf. 17:00 on):
[predictably, poof!]
China is named, along with Iran and North Korea. As well as, of course, Russia having been widely deemed suspect no. 1. This is an obvious example of an information-influence operation as act of 4G war, connecting the local civil conflict in the US to the global conflict, de facto WW4. Forbes comments:
The recently discovered cyber attacks against numerous U.S. government departments and thousands of public and private sector entities around the world, via a compromise of SolarWinds software, underscore the risks associated with third party vendors and raise questions about liability. The attacks were allegedly perpetrated by Russia and were highly sophisticated . . . .
The attackers compromised the software “signature” of SolarWinds’s Orion network monitoring software and distributed malware as a software update. Public and private encryption keys are used to “sign” software. A software update is “signed” using an encryption algorithm and the developer’s private key, which creates a hash “signature.” This “signature” is validated by the receiver of the software update by using the sender’s public key. The signature process assures the integrity of the update and instills trust in users of the software.
In a December 14 SEC filing, SolarWinds said that of its more than 300,000 customers, they believed that less than 18,000 entities may have downloaded the Orion update during the March-June 2020 timeframe [–> the 6 months timeline], which likely included the malware. The malware operated stealthily and exfiltrated valuable intellectual property, confidential and proprietary data, emails, and other valuable information from victims’ systems. It was unknown until prominent cybersecurity firm FireEye, also a victim of the attacks, discovered the malware and reported on the attacks on December 13, 2020.
According to FireEye, once installed in a system, the malware remained quiet for a couple of weeks and then masqueraded as the Orion Improvement Program protocol. It stored data from its internal activities within actual SolarWinds files on the system, thereby making its detection all the more difficult. The malware had highly credentialed access to the system and could disable system services, reboot machines, exfiltrate data, execute files, change system configurations, and perform actions usually taken by a highly privileged system administrator.
That sounds rather familiar, and illustrates what happens if a trusted supplier is compromised. Gen Flynn’s remarks at 16:05 on are worth transcribing:
When we talk about our election security . . . I think this is all part of it, because there is a relationship between this solar winds attack; which has basically penetrated our entire critical infrastructure as well as our election security. So we have to look at everything we’re doing . . . okay with all of the egregious behaviour that we’ve seen on our election security we cannot stand for foreign influence, which we have direct evidence of foreign influence. We also have direct evidence now from other countries, from other foreign partners who have evidence.
In fact they were watching the attacks on our election system, on our election process on the 3rd of November and they are willing to provide that directly to the President.
So we now have that evidence and have received that today. It’s very important.
So there are foreign partners and allies that are willing to help us with our election security and this Solar Winds system is really really dangerous and more has to be done.
The likely allies obviously include Israel, likely Japan, South Korea, Taiwan and possibly Australia given the focus on China.
Again, we are back to whose report do you believe, why.
U/D21, Dec 23: It was not possible to find the 1984 Movie through a Google search (yes, they are that unconscious of the irony) but DDG showed it, here is a colour version at YT, this may be pretty important holiday viewing:
If that gets purged, here is Web Archive.
U/D22, Dec 28: Understand the anger of the perpetually manipulated:
One does not have to endorse the above across the board to see that it has a telling point or two about the “Uniparty” and the issue of fundamentally unaccountable elites, leading a manipulated march of folly. Here, the lesson of Ac 27 is again all too relevant.
U/D23: A Canadian Lawyer and an American Lawyer discuss — as an example — the dismissal of the Wisconsin care; an example of how the election fraud concerns are being sidelined:
U/D24, Jan 3, what the Ukrainians have to say about corruption and investigation, through an Interfax press conference. Such needs to be soberly addressed in detail:
UD Live Event from Nov 3, US Election cont’d: BBC — yes the BEEB — on BLM’s Marxist founders, “[We] fought to change history and we won”
The Arizona State Legislature is scheduled to hold an election integrity hearing on Nov. 30 that will include President Donald Trump’s lawyers Jenna Ellis and Rudy Giuliani.
The event is scheduled to start at 9 a.m. MT (11 a.m. ET) and ends at 2 p.m. MT (4 p.m. ET). NTD and The Epoch Times will livestream the full hearing.
Where to Watch on Nov. 30 at 11 a.m. ET:
LIVE: Trump lawyers and Arizona State Legislature hold public hearing on election integrity | NTD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfC2T7UpxkI
LIVE: Trump Lawyers and Arizona State Legislature Hold Public Hearing on Election Integrity
https://www.theepochtimes.com/live
Live: Trump Lawyers and Arizona State Legislature Hold Public Hearing on Election Integrity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pW-cD3CgDQc
——–
Oh, stop. BLM is pseudoMaoist, not any kind of Marxist, and it works for Deepstate.
BLM didn’t accomplish what it wanted. The riots firmly persuaded most people, both BLACK AND WHITE, that police are crucially necessary. The riots also demonstrated to most people that the current holocaust is a hoax. The demon mayors and governors didn’t arrest any of the rioters for failing to muzzle, thus proving that muzzles are solely about power, not “viruses”.
If this is what BLM really wanted to accomplish, they’ve done a mighty good job of hiding their real purpose.
ba77 @ 2 –
That’s odd, it’s not in their calendar, and according to the local news they are not even in session, and it isn’t a legislative session.
Whatever Bob, it is a ‘hearing’ of the evidence for, and/or against, voter fraud that is being held in a hotel of Phoenix by leading members of the Republican members of the Arizona legislature.. If the evidence for fraud is compelling, which I fully expect it to be, they will introduce a resolution to the Republican controlled legislature to ‘remedy’ the voter fraud that took place.
Might I suggest you actually watch the hearing?
Yes, the event, like the event in PA, is not really being held by the Arizona State Legislature. It’s a private event with some state legislators, including one senator-elect. As far as I know the resolution offered by the people in PA went no place.
Viola Lee, you claim “the resolution offered by the people in PA went no place’.
Really???
And exactly how has it ‘gone no place’ when the resolution was not even made until late Friday night and it has not even been brought to the floor(s) of the PA legislature for a vote yet???
I can only surmise that you would try to put such a false spin on the resolution going forward, (before it has even had a chance to ‘go forward’), since you are a biased partisan who could care less about the truth of the matter. In other words, if voter fraud did occur, you could care less as long as it is advantageous for your party of preference
Only someone with a profound lack of integrity would do as you have done, and throw voting integrity itself under the bus, as it were,,, for purely partisan political reasons.
F/N: U/D1, HT BA77, AZ hearings, they are currently talking of 1.9 million ballots that were not signature verified, implying mail-in ballots. The issue of bleed through on in person votes marked with Sharpie pens, put to an adjudication file, which can be placed at will of adjudicators if not under close, proper scrutiny. KF
Polistra, Maoism is of course part of the Marxist family, BLM is taking Critical Theories (yes, plural) rooted in Frankfurt School culture form Marxism to the streets, mobilising aggrieved minorities to serve as cannon fodder for revolution. Their close allies are Antifa and I have little doubt that there are many allies embedded in the establishment AKA deep state. When avowed Marxists are taking victory laps, we had better sit up and take due notice. KF
F/N: White Hat Hackers were apparently watching Dominion data traffic in real time Nov 3 – 4, with a surge of 7 up to 10 Gb/s it sounded like. Frankfurt seemed to be a relevant server location. The current witness is a Col Walton or the near like. KF
Witness, anything that is software based can be changed at the click of a button. Compares bankers and block chain systems. Whoever has the eye in the sky can shift the odds, comparing Las Vegas. Man with a bag of usb drives. KF
Repeat of BA post
https://votepatternanalysis.substack.com/p/voting-anomalies-2020
Oh, but we can just ignore the facts and the data… 🙄
Software in a black box.
Benford’s law as a flag, linear regression, algorithm id, decimal fraction votes, ranked choice voting, fractions, giving percent of votes to candidates. Severe lack of R adjudicators. more
networks in vote tabbing centre, go to a station on the net, the system goes to Internet. Observer physically observed and sketched. Rally outside inset on screen.
Observer then worker, frustrated observation AZ, seemingly selective procedures to allow people to vote.
I was wrong, and apologize, BA. The PA resolution hasn’t been acted on. I was thinking of the most recent PA Supreme Court ruling.
KF is fear-mongering over the software but completely ignores the fact that the audits that check the paper ballots against the individual machine numbers, and the audits of the machine numbers against the tabulated numbers, and the audits of the tabulated data against the reported data failed to find any problems. As have the recounts that have been conducted.
per expert testimony as to recounts conducted thus far,,,,,, garbage in, garbage out,,,, he recommended forensic analysis of servers for a true audit,,,
BA77
I guess President Biden could opt to do this after January 20th if he wants to.
Bornagain77: per expert testimony as to recounts conducted thus far,,,,,, garbage in, garbage out,,,, he recommended forensic analysis of servers for a true audit,,,
What did Giuliani’s case actually say? Do you know? I’m not talking about what you think it should have said but do you know what case they actually presented to the Arizona legislatures?
It seems to me that those asserting voting fraud have not been able to present a coherent and consistent case in any of the legal challenges they have presented. Perhaps the pro-fraud crowd here should look at what the Trumpsters are actually presenting in their cases. It’s possible you might feel let down.
Here, a clip with Col Waldron on White Hat Hackers watching IP packets from Dominion on Election day, going to a Scytl server on Frankfurt Germany. This — notice, we are now connecting dots — fits with other remarks and reports on a Scytl server there being raided and apparently examined. That points to serious vulnerabilities, to begin with. Also, it suggests this is a likely focus of crucial onward evidence or intelligence. Other observed traffic may well be consistent with remarks on hostile hackers taking a peek into the election; various geostrategic vultures were noted in the earlier thread. So, those remarks should not be discarded as empty speculation. The immediate point is, assurances of election being off Internet are worthless, and we have further grounds for reforms to rebuild system integrity and trustworthiness being urgently needed. That a US Forces Cyberwar Col and team of White Hat hackers were watching live says, an active 4 G War, cyber battlespace operation was ongoing. A tentacle just made a very loud splash. Wise people would take the hint.
MMT, you have been willfully ignoring that there are ways to have electronic and paper ballots seemingly consistent with tainted ballots, having to do with frustrated scrutineering and ability to adjudicate ballots, also to mark ballots in ways similar to how people mark ballots. Indeed, the issue of blanks being adjudicated — and presumably marked too — came up. I have picked up key points in testimony of what seems to be a field officer involved with a cyber battlespace operation Nov 3 – 4, and a witness — whistleblower — who confirms, a continent away, a very similar pattern of machine politics in counting centres. Namecalling that as fear mongering only tells us that you have no substantial and cogent response, especially when tied to misrepresenting something I already addressed when Jerry asked about it. You would be better served to listen to the evidence on the table rather than throwing rhetorical distractions. KF
Whatever,,,,,
,,,, the expert testified that the recounts conducted thus far are garbage., i.e. specifically he remarked “garbage in, garbage out”,,, He recommended forensic analysis of the servers, among analyzing other things, to obtain a more precise number of fraudulent votes,
The legislators seemed to be very interested in doing just that.
Auditing the actual voting list itself for fraudulent votes is being discussed right now in the hearing. According to the expert testifying, just auditing the voting list itself for fraudulent votes, minus any computer forensics, is enough by itself to swing the state to Trump since they, in their analysis of the voting list, detected more than enough fraudulent votes, via the voting list by itself, to swing the state,,
MMT, if what happened starting with uncontrolled mail in ballots and the like passes through successfully this time, that is the end of elections worth the name. This is make/break point, and the victory lap noted in the OP is a clear warning. I repeat, strategic decision over the next 13 months. A comparison is, Normandy lodgement, heavy attritional battles, breakthrough, breakout and drive to the German frontier, where natural defences and logistics constraints postponed the final end to the following May. But once there was breakout, the decision was made; just, Hitler refused to read the handwriting bon the wall and the coup attempt failed. The demonstration of the onward condition of the American Republic and our civilisation will be the way the 2022 elections go down. I assure you, if the headlined trio are happy c Dec 2021, the US and world are in deep trouble. I am pretty sure that won’t be the case, but an awful lot of damage is going to be taken to get there, in the US and globally. Rest assured, if the culture form marxist radicals are allowed to run further riot, it will be geostrategically and economically disastrous, Venezuela writ large. But then, my bet is, most people haven’t the first clue that BLM is a Marxist front operation, much less any appreciation for the implications of a colour-culture revolution push. KF
F/N: Just for fun, THIS is what speculative discussion looks like, cleaned up of crudities:
https://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/293949798
>>Presidential Address incoming this week . . . . The address will have senior military and justice department officials making comments regarding the election. Why do you think Barr has been so quiet. He has been putting together his presentation and statement that the electoral college cannot legitimize the election results now . . . . They will discuss the raid in Frankfurt and the role of Dominion, China and Iran in the election fraud. The biggest hit will be on rogue elements in the CIA who were involved in this. Haspel and Wray will be fired this way. Haspel because of Frankfurt and Wray because of the Hunter Biden computer cover up . . . . Took time to put this together. The election was a fraud and will be shown. You think Biden will be President after this? . . . . Coomer has been detarined and under arrest for about a week. He has ratted out several deep state and oversea rats. He has really gone to town on that Secretary of State in Georgia, outlining the bribes and the connection of China to Georgia political leaders . . . . BIDEN CONCEDES TONIGHT>>
Contrast the demeanour of Col Waldron and the whistleblower. Who, speak from obvious, freely exposed personal acquaintance with facts.
It is what ~ 1% possible the just clipped has germs of truth in it; this week would be potentially pivotal, after all. I bet, Mr Biden won’t be conceding tonight, unless he has been told that his and/or his son’s necks are on the line on evidence in hand if he doesn’t. And no, that wouldn’t be a Flynn game.
I trust the contrast will help some objectors begin to tell the difference.
KF
ba77 @ 5 –
What sort of remedy are they suggesting, as the vote has been certified?
I’ve just seen a Congressional Research Service report which might be interesting for anyone wanting to know what could happen next year when the votes are counted. WJM (I think – apologies if I’m wrong) was suggesting that votes could be rejected if one senator and one congresscritter objected. According to the report, if there is an objection, both houses go off to discuss the matter, and both have to vote for the objection for the vote to be rejected.
Finance-minded analyst looking at pop and voting trends over past 20 years, the growth in pop for the key period is about 1% pa, voters, 7%, cites a county, Apache, going it seems 76 to about 87 to now 99% reported turnout; the latter is effectively impossible. He suggests fraud has been growing for some time. The US is worth about USD100 trill, so maybe it is time County officers and up be signatories on key statements with accountability at level of CEO’s and CFO’s of publicly held corporations.
High Tech, big ticket utilities project manager with MBA, retired: this is the most important thing in the country right now and she cannot believe how sloppy it is.
A Certified Poll Observer asked Dominion employee, “How are the data images being stored?” ,,, answer ,, Simple manual copy,,, then copy of voting data is taken off site nightly by Dominion employee,,, there was no chain of custody for voting data that was taken off site by Dominion employee,,,
The manager was objecting to outsourcing mission critical functions to Dominion.
The deeper the abyss , the brighter the Light.
Where’s Joe Biden demanding thorough audits so his presidency isn’t tainted?
Many, many, signatures did not match verifying signatures in any way, shape, or form, yet counted as votes for Biden anyway,,,,, She said the signatures on the ballot were ‘chicken scratch’ compared to the actual verifying signatures,,,, according to the witness, far away enough votes, thousands upon thousands, were tabulated in this way to easily throw the election,,,,
Polistra: BLM didn’t accomplish what it wanted.
They sure did help boost gun sales, though. 😀
Live statement, President of US.
observer testified,,,, Saw same hand writing on at least 30 different ballots,, but the ballots still were counted as votes for Biden,
,,, on a computer screen, saw a Trump vote default to a Biden vote,,, (more than once) ,, other observers testified to seeing the same thing happen,,,
Supervisors contradicted their own policies on ‘overvotes’ whenever it would favor Biden and the intent of the voter for Trump was clear
Whenever she complained about the many instances of fraud that she saw during the election, she was threatened, i.e. ‘yelled at’, and told to be quiet,,
County Chairman witnesses R ballot defaulting D in presidential race on being entered, hears reports that it was happening. Similarly, serious issues on signature verifications. 30 ballots, same handwriting, scribbles etc.
Because of the overwhelming evidence presented for voter fraud in AZ at the meeting, the Chairman said he is calling for a special session of AZ legislature. Asked constituents to consolidate their notes over next 24 hours, and put them in their proper format so as to be presented, and then he closed meeting,,,,,,
And again, according to the US constitution itself, it is the state legislature’s job to make sure the election is free of fraud. i.e. It has the ultimate authority in certifying its election. Not even the Governor of the state, nor any other official of the state, can take that authority away from the state legislature.
BA77, I think the money shot issue is Col Philip Waldron and his white hat hacker operators monitoring Dominion election traffic live tied to Frankfurt and with our favourite geostrategic vultures prodding around. This points to the raid and raises issues on that scitl server. Cyber battlespace, and with a kinetic element. If a report is true 1st US army firefight in the 4g civil war was in Frankfurt, and cost lives. Some of this, we will see, I don’t take 4chan seriously. KF
KF, I’m with you on that, but even an audit of the voter list by itself, is enough to turn the election, and that is before we even get into Dominion,,,
i.e. via the voter list, they have hard evidence in hand already.
Well now I hear that the pa legislature is on vacation until Jan 1. So much for that. 1 more political Speech that apparently will go nowhere. Looks like another dog and pony show. Vacation overrides democracy. At least the legislature are elected, so there could have been a chance for representation. Stolen elections signal the end of a republic. The people who fought and died at Gettysburg are probably rolling over in their graves.
Es58, if that is so, let us compare the moral duty of care challenge:
Does this not tell us a good slice of how the situation deteriorated to this point?
Especially, as a climate is being ginned up in which standing up on this point will earn undying hostility and vindictiveness — one of the underlying issues with the sort of push in progress . . . meet your new masters [oligarchs].
KF
PS: Remember the old curmudgeon who took down his old flintlock for militia duty, got on a blue coat and joined with a regiment there at Gettysburg, taking a bullet?
BA77, for AZ such an audit seems to be likely to have such an effect. If the legislature has the collective moral fibre to do its plain duty. The victory lap in the OP, by who, is telling us what is in store on current line of drift in the storm, but until chaos is massively obvious, it is easy to pretend we can get away with the seemingly easy path and hey, here is that convenient south wind that will get us from Fair Havens to Phoenix just 40 miles away in an afternoon. We must never forget that the examples of Scripture are prophetic, cf Ac 27. (Notice, how consistently this lesson on dirty politics and consequences for ships of state is not taught from the pulpit, much less the church’s duty of prudence, apostolic ambassadorship of the Kingdom [and of good corporate citizenship], prayer even in seeming defeat, and prophetic guidance when chaos seems to be in the driver seat? Can you guess why ___ ?) KF
M62, what will you do when by destructive policy, gun manufacturers are driven into bankruptcy, gun shops and ammunition providers too, etc, and if you so much as brandish a prop gun in self defence against the mob you are targetted for ruinous prosecution and threat of gaol? KF
F/N: Notice the snarky, dismissive attitude to Ms Powell speaking of a witness beaten up and hospitalised, in the context of yes there are witnesses to real time manipulation of results who need witness protections to come forward. KF
PS: Note her final words in the clip:
F/N, U/D2 on Ms Powell’s updates on the situation as she looks towards VA. Note, “even as a restraining order was being debated in a see-saw back-forth, in Fulton County, a Server was taken by a technician on excuse of software update and has disappeared from chain of custody.” Likewise, she points out how, “[f]rom CA, a tape has been forwarded to Ms Powell and reveals 550 votes from 270 people, an indication of algorithmic manipulation.” Note John Yoo on the Trump presidency. KF
From: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9002479/Arizona-certifies-presidential-election-results-despite-Giuliani-touting-conspiracy.html
From the very conservative National Review: https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/11/trump-election-fraud-disgraceful-endgame/
Recounting fraudulent ballots proves what exactly?
In Nevada we see that Nevada Judge Orders Inspection of Election Equipment in Clark County
kf @ 43 –
It isn’t true. For a start, it makes no sense. The Germans wouldn’t let the US run operations on German soil (at least not operations anyone would notice), and if it was done without their permission it would be an act of war.
Also, if it had happened, a lot of people would have noticed. Frankfurt isn’t exactly a small place miles from anywhere. And yet there has been nothing on the news. Even the local newspaper is covering this as fraud (including pointing out that Scytl says it doesn’t have any servers in Frankfurt), and the local broadcaster, HR, has nothing about it.
JVL, National Review is hardly the bastion of conservatism that it once was under Buckley’,,, In fact, National Review has consistently had an overt bias against Trump since day one, thus it is hardly surprising that they would be bashing Trump now,,,
JVL, many of the witnesses were implicitly under oath as they had submitted affidavits, sworn statements under penalty. This was noted by Mr Giuliani during the discussions I heard. And in fact, a formal oath or commission is not the sole basis of credibility for a witness, a solemn sense of duty or purpose joined to capability to know the facts — i.e. being a witness — and sufficient observational and reasoning power to draw conclusions appropriately is enough. Most witnesses were poll observers and functionaries, who made notes and were obviously freely responding to questions . . . false witnesses and the coached are remarkably selective on where they are vague vs detailed. In addition, there was a lot of corroboration. Perhaps the most important witness, a serving US Army Cyber war officer, was there as part of his commissioned service under the uniform code of military justice and reported a white hat hacker cyber operation that should have been the main headline. DM shows its bias and failure here; I have no question that it and its peers have run with many stories with far less warrant and cogency. KF
PS: Perhaps, you may find my review of [in the main] Greenleaf’s key principles of evidence here, helpful. I clip as of particular interest:
These, of course, I have had occasion to refer to over the years here at UD and elsewhere.
BO’H,
secret operations have been routine from the days of the cold war and have fairly routinely cost lives. Where, silenced firearms as weapons and cover stories are fairly common; cooperation with the local government would be just as secret; your speculation on acts of war is moot. That said, you will note that I am not affirming that it happened in that way with certainty, just, that were it so, it would be the first outright military operation. What seems far more weighty is the taking and examination of a server per earlier remarks, and the current point that we have here a different class of 4G war military operation being reported by a responsible officer, live observation of Dominion election data and internet access during the election involving Frankfurt and the notorious geostrategic vultures.
It seems the cyberwar battlespace is on permanent war footing, engaging in particular these vultures.
Next, this directly discredits several promotional claims of Dominion and doubtless others in the network of shared software, shell companies etc. It also exposes that contrary to election integrity claims, the election was open to man in the middle attacks, to inside job manipulation and to third party hacking while in preparation, while voting and counting were ongoing and in the aftermath, attacking logs etc.
This brings out the significance of this buried- in- an- unmarked- grave lead and headline. That is smoking gun territory, as the deception by Dominion and other suspicious trends imply that we had manipulation and it was seen live by cyberwar command.
This also gives force to Mr Coomer’s boast about what he did to the election.
At this point, do you expect us to take Scytl or media seriously, given what has been going on, over the report of a responsible officer on warfighting cyber operations? With others weighing in also?
Yes, we need a lot more information, but there is enough to take sobering pause.
KF
PS: Does anyone have detailed views on charts of shell company, licensing, subsidiary ownership, as well as the Internet activity circle web chart?
BA77, precisely. The inspection of the tech equipment, providing things weren’t purged eight layers deep [I am assuming spinning drives], will be helpful, though as of today, the clock is ticking down faster and faster, to Dec 6, 14 then onward to Jan was it 12 then 20.Kraken level moves are called for this week, and we saw one yesterday. KF
Last night on ‘The Ingraham Angle’ they had an interview with a person about evidence collected by the ‘Amistad Project’,,, I could not find the video clip yet, but I did find this,
On the Ingraham Angle last night, he said that, for Arizona in particular, he has evidence for 70,000 fraudulent ballots. Which is easily enough votes to swing the election to Trump, since only a 10,457 vote margin exists,
https://alex.github.io/nyt-2020-election-scraper/battleground-state-changes.html
As to the, now, robotic refrain from fake news media, ‘there is no evidence’ of voter fraud, I repeat this piece from yesterday, “Don’t spit in my face and tell me it’s raining.”
@Bob O’H:
> It isn’t true. For a start, it makes no sense. The Germans wouldn’t let the US run operations on German soil (at least not operations anyone would notice), and if it was done without their permission it would be an act of war.
Of course it would be an act of war. But Merkel already proved her disloyalty to the nation by letting Germany be silently invaded by Syrians.
I can imagine the “Frankfurt”-story to be true. German mainstream media cannot be trusted. If it were Russians attacking on German soil, we wouldn’t here the end of it. But when US thugs attack, Fräulein Merkel will sweep it under the rug and the Merkel friendly media will do everything to deny the attack. After all: USA are German’s “friends”. LOL.
I hope the ones killed were US attackers, and not the brave security guards protecting the sovereignty of Germany. And fyi: it was not Frankfurt, but Bielefeld.
F/N: The TCF centre observers report on the unprofessional and suspicious events in the TCF center. This is not the mark of a high integrity election. Never mind the text from Gateway Pundit, just scroll down and watch, from Rumble. KF
Whether or not Trump is successful through the courts is largely irrelevant. It would be helpful in terms of gaining some public support, but legally no court decision can stop Trump’s re-election (no claims of election/vote fraud against the Trump side even being pursued at this point to my knowledge.) While the court does have the power to essentially re-elect trump by vitiating the results of the election with prejudice against the entire Democrat Party, it cannot stop his re-election.
The court cases appear to me to actually be plan B. Plan A was always about convincing the state legislatures to appoint Trump electors, and IMO they are using the courts in an attempt to strengthen that effort. This is why they are taking their evidence directly to the Republican members of those state legislatures. They are making their case for fraud directly to whom it matters most: the people that will choose the electors in those states.
However, Trump does have the option of using plan C, which is constitutional, and he’s been making the case for it since before his first election, by using the 14 amendment and invoking the Insurrection Act. He can literally arrest anyone and use the military on US soil to ensure the domestic peace. His legal powers would be extreme.
As the situation stands, I’m fairly confident he will do so if it comes to that, for the simple reason that his freedom, and that of his family, their future, perhaps their very lives are at stake in a way that even broad Presidential pardons won’t be enough to stop because of the very real probability of the Dems packing the courts. His motivation could not be any higher.
This isn’t a legal battle for Trump; it’s a life-or-death one. If you don’t understand that, IMO you’re not viewing these events through an accurate filter. Trump cannot let Biden become President, if Trump is what he claims to be and if this all isn’t a big psyop. If he is “real,” he will do whatever it takes legally – to make sure he is re-elected.
That failing, if what is going on is what I think it is, a military intervention will be necessary.
AndyClue said:
The story is that the “security detail” guarding the servers was a CIA paramilitary team. There are different accounts as to how many died on each side of the firefight, but the story is that the military took possession of the servers.
@kairosfocus:
> Here, a clip with Col Waldron on White Hat Hackers watching IP packets from Dominion on Election day, going to a Scytl server on Frankfurt Germany.
From the video: “We did observe packet traffic that were going from the US. Now we don’t know if it was specifically Dominion traffic going… but to a server in Frankfurt.”
Is there more to the video? Can his presentation be downloaded? Because what he’s saying is strange. Why does he not know, whether the traffic he observed, was Dominion traffic??? What’s the point of observing unspecific traffic? Lot’s of internet traffic goes to or through Frankfurt.
WJM, a big problem is that 4th gen, shadow war is outside the conception of many people today. Unfortunately, we are in the midst of one, where the US 2nd Civil War is just a theatre of operations in a wider global struggle. Where, not only do we have the BEEB inadvertently exposing a Communist agitator victory lap — but maybe someone is giving a hint there — but the hoping to be new administration seems intent on going to Paris early on, to sign global surrender papers under colour of environmental concerns and aquiescence to global technocrat and “Science” “consensus.” Of course, science in key parts has long since been taken ideological captive. Pandemic response is a capital case, though design thinkers have longstanding familiarity with the problem, as do climate dissidents such as Watts and co. KF
Here is a direct link to the video KF referenced:
AC, the video is part of the live presentation in the OP, at least from another angle. The Colonel — Philip Waldron if I got the name right — was lead witness, and gave a presentation that I am asking, does anyone have the slides. Yes, it is unsurprising that Frankfurt, a major financial centre, would be a key European Internet nexus, with server farms aplenty; directly parallel to New York City. Your remark on another city closer to Holland is interesting, though. KF
@William J Murray:
> The story is that the “security detail” guarding the servers was a CIA paramilitary team.
In that case: good riddance… as long as the criminals kill each other.
Btw. similar stories are reported about Barcelona and Toronto: https://twitter.com/horelick_m/status/1333065099188297733
I smell a new Call of Duty or Battlefield series: “Black Ops: Saving the Election”
BA77, anything on YT, I can only embed YT here; I think, security provisions, standard embeds don’t work — at least when I tried. KF
PS: BTW, while listening my machine black screened then I lost direct audio on reboot. After a struggle , uninstalling RealTek then reinstalling from download failed. Saw, restart windows, and voila no more need for clumsy headphones, with due apologies to Ampex.
Wow. Just found some interesting stuff doing some research.
From an article late last year, it appears that the Trump admin was laying the groundwork to alter the chain of command for the use of all special ops personnel, and most relevant, the capacity of the CIA to, under its own command wrt specops missions and personnel, use any paramilitary teams.
https://www.militarytimes.com/opinion/commentary/2019/09/10/passing-the-paramilitary-torch-from-the-cia-to-special-operations-command/
Apparently, earlier this month that happened: https://djhjmedia.com/kari/jfks-vision-trumps-dod-watershed-reform-with-special-operations-civilian-leadership/
Since then all special ops is run under the authority and approval of Christopher Miller, the new acting Secretary of Defense.
This looks to be a reorganization tactic that removes any legal basis for the CIA or other civilian entities to employ any special ops personnel outside of DoD leadership approval and authority, which would be a US legal pre-requisite for the move on the servers in Germany or else you would have competing legal authorities – if, in fact, the servers were being guarded by a CIA paramilitary team. They would have now been under the legal authority of the DoD and would have been illegally in operation at that location.
Basically, Trump did what JFK never got to do; he declawed the CIA and any other non-military agency who had been employing specops to do their dirty work here and around the world.
WJM, I bet we never hear the full story on a firefight if any; 5 Delta Force down to 1 CIA contractor sounds like a raid gone seriously wrong at a room clearing point; recall, Desert 1 with Delta in Iran in 1979. The key thing is, the server rack[s]. How fast can they crack and vacuum them, what will they tell humble hoi polloi. KF
PS,just saw, that’s an assassination offence in Clown books. The ex-Mossad protection team better go on high alert.
KF, I can’t find anything on YT. Too bad you can’t embed from rumble. There has been a move to rumble from YT to escape the heavy handed YT left wing censorship and propaganda…
KF, this article is paywalled, but if you can access it, this looks interesting
Article ends there for me, if anyone has a subscription and could put the rest of the article up, I would appreciate it.
KF,
That could be the result of orders to take as many alive as possible for interrogation, so maybe not a raid gone wrong, but a case of soldiers heroically laying down their lives to preserve evidence for a greater cause.
AndyClue @ 60 –
It wasn’t an invasion, and it was hardly silent – I was living in Frankfurt when it happened. There were anti-immigrant protests, but larger pro-immigrant protests.
Ah, that makes it even more unlikely, as Bielefeld doesn’t even exist. 🙂
BO’H: Go google maps or even just Wikipedia, it seems a tourism-oriented town, quite a distance NW of Frankfurt, but I don’t doubt the main node would be Frankfurt. KF
PS: Look up Settlement Jihad, yes it is a concept.
Ah, the good old Bielefeldverschwörung raises its head – from the time when conspiracy theories were just a little bit of fun….
BA77, here is my clip,
https://spectator.org/five-quick-things-no-you-are-not-crazy/
>> Five Quick Things: No, You Are Not Crazy
After the way Americans have been censored, gaslighted, and lied to, no one is obligated to accept anyone’s narrative anymore.
Scott McKay
by Scott McKay
December 1, 2020, 12:00 AM
Over the weekend, conservative Christian blogger and podcaster Brannon Howse, who has been denounced by the leftist media repeatedly over the past two decades as a conspiracy kook, generated quite a bit of attention for a bombshell interview he conducted . . . . It was Flynn’s first interview since being pardoned by President Trump. In the years since he was attacked by the FBI for having committed no crime in a politicized prosecution that stands out as one of the most egregious injustices in modern American history, he had been mostly silent in media interviews. But no longer.
Flynn, a long-time military intelligence specialist who was President Trump’s designee for National Security Adviser, and McInerney, who was the head of NORAD and rose to the No. 3 position in the U.S. Air Force [–> serious positions of trust, that’s nuke weapons classification access stuff with all that goes with it], both lent their support to the Sidney Powell narrative of American elections corrupted by foreign sources through software manipulation of Dominion Voting Systems machines. The narrative no doubt reads like a David Baldacci or Tom Clancy novel; one is quite justified in thinking that it sounds a bit crazy.
McInerney even echoed the story . . . that a Frankfurt, Germany server farm was the scene of a firefight between Special Forces operators and CIA personnel over a raid to seize those servers . . . . if you find yourself believing part or even all of it, don’t let anybody tell you you’re crazy for doing so. The people thus scolding you have a lot to answer for . . . .
1. The Death of Media Curiosity
Most of the predicate behind what Powell is saying about Dominion and the software companies counting votes in the 2020 election is not new. Nor is it even Republican. The alarm bells behind Dominion machines and the vote tabulation software were sounded nearly two decades ago when the brand name on those machines was Diebold and Democrats threw a fit over suggested irregularities in the 2000 and 2004 elections.
And last year there were Democrats like Liz Warren who openly challenged the integrity of the Dominion systems and suggested they could be used to hack elections.
How long has the president been screaming about election integrity, whether that involved software or mail ballots as platforms for a stolen election? Five months, easily . . . .
2. What is Evidence, Anymore?
Over and over again you hear from Democrat politicians and media mouthpieces that there is “no evidence” behind the accusations of a stolen election.
This is an absolute lie. It’s a malicious lie, one that threatens to make it impossible for any factual consensus to be had within our national discussion in the future.
What is contestable is whether the evidence of vote fraud we’ve seen to date is sufficient to throw the official vote tabulation in states like Arizona, Michigan, Georgia, Wisconsin, Nevada, and Pennsylvania into doubt. No one can make a true judgement on that score yet, because the evidence has not been vetted in front of an impartial tribunal so far [–> But there are no such, we might be able to get an objective one and there is the court of public, reasonably well informed and responsible opinion] . . . .
Statistical anomalies in vote counts are evidence of vote fraud. Witness testimony of rampant lawbreaking at counting centers is evidence. Tampering and destruction of election records is evidence. The idea that Team Trump has no evidence of a stolen election is far more groundless than the subject of that idea could ever be.
And let’s remember, the American media demanding that you believe Trump has no evidence of a stolen election are the same people who pushed a narrative of the president’s collusion with Putin for more than two years with no evidence whatsoever. They supported the deranged Adam Schiff and his band of miscreants when they presented no evidence whatsoever to support an impeachment of Trump over Ukraine. And of course there was the Christine Blasey Ford circus during the Brett Kavanaugh confirmation hearings, which contained no evidence whatsoever.
For decades they’ve fabricated damaging stories . . . .
3. Two Plus Two Equals Five
Then there are the outright lies.
Hunter Biden’s laptop was a treasure trove of hard evidence of serious corruption. When the stories of that evidence weren’t being completely suppressed by both the legacy corporate media and the social media overlords, we were instead fed deliberate falsehoods. For example, that the whole story of what was on that laptop was Russian disinformation — something cooked up by the same people who cooked up the Trump–Russia collusion lie.
Take the various COVID-19 narratives as another example . . . it’s an item of faith among Democrats and their media allies that economic shutdowns are the only way to stop the virus. Also that asymptomatic spread of the virus is rampant and that there is no effective treatment for it.
Every one of those statements is either a flat-out lie or, at minimum, highly challengeable . . . .
4. Corruption For Thee, But Not For Me
On one hand there’s the Trump–Russia collusion hoax and the Trump tax return fiasco. On the other hand there’s FISAgate, Fast and Furious, Benghazi, the Clinton Foundation, the Clinton emails, the weaponization of the IRS, and practically everything else the Obama administration did.
The legacy corporate media called the Obama administration the most “scandal-free” in memory, something that should have put to bed any notion of credibility. Those same people, who ignored Tara Reade, the Hunter Biden laptop and Tony Bobulinski, the Andrew Cuomo nursing home COVID deaths, Extortion 17, Jeffrey Epstein and Harvey Weinstein (until it was no longer possible to ignore them), the East Anglia emails, and practically every other scandal involving Democrat politicians and causes over the past decade and more, are now calling the theft of the 2020 election unsubstantiated.
It is literally true that America’s legacy corporate media will not report on scandal involving the Left . . . .
5. They Created 2020, And Now They Can Live In It
The year we are ending didn’t just happen out of the blue. Twenty-twenty is the culmination of a very long chain of events going back 30 years or more.
It’s the culmination of 30 years of coddling Chinese communists and allowing them influence over pop culture, our news media, our political class, corporate America, our technology industry, and our economy without imposing any of our standards on them.
It’s the culmination of well more than 30 years of the Left wrecking our institutions with critical theory, poisoning the American people against our traditions and power structure with crackpot advocacy and idiotic double standards.
It’s the culmination of half a century of pop culture destabilizing our values and challenging the notion that business and government in this country exist to make things better. The Left told us that corporations were evil, no? The Left has convinced us the FBI and CIA were corrupt, haven’t they? They’re not credible in assuring us corporations and government are incapable of colluding to steal an election.
Everyone in America knows the system is sick . . . >>
There is much more there.
KF
DiEb, okay, it is an in-house German joke about a smallish town then. KF
Thank you KF. The Flynn angle, since he was certainly in a position to know of the inner workings, is what me very hesitant to dismiss the story entirely.
Krebs was only fired, no other questions?
Dominion, Smartmatic, and SCYTL were selected by Krebs.
https://bwcentral.org/2020/11/163180/
One thing is certain- no one should ever listen to any evolutionist when it comes to evidence. They have proven incapable of assessing evidence.
A firefight in Frankfurt and nobody takes notice? Highly unlikely – but I could not find anything about a Schießerei [–> okay, shoot-out] in the first weeks of November in Frankfurt/Main.
Sandy, selected to sit on DHS’ cybersecurity panel, you linked. Bro Fox, you are the guard for the hen-house. KF
Indeed, it’s an in-house German joke (about a decently-sized town) which indicates that Bob O’H knows what he is talking about….
ET, that issue, lack of education on epistemology, inductive reasoning and warrant, is key to the wider situation. In this thread, let us address some of that, I have already put Greenleaf on the table on evidence of witnesses, hence the forensic-legal-historical side. Thus too, Journalism. KF
PS: Note, background on first duties of responsible reason:
That’s a beginning-point. Compare 2324 and 2270, with 1907 in the previous thread.
DiEb, if there was a firefight deep in the cloak and dagger business it may well be deeply classified; silenced weapons with low noise signature would be likely, too. Big IF. AC suggests a different location, hence the joke. Frankfurt makes sense for a gateway for internet data to move and would be a logical tap-point; terminal servers may be elsewhere, who knows but the shadows folks. Beyond that we await more, but some will doubtless never be told. KF
@Bob O’H
> It wasn’t an invasion, and it was hardly silent – I was living in Frankfurt when it happened. There were anti-immigrant protests, but larger pro-immigrant protests.
The Syrians Merkel imported have been raping and in part murdering hundreds of young German women. And the mainstream media mainly stayed silent. And I’m not talking about the shameful sexual assaults in Silvester.
I bet large portions of those pro-immigrant protestors would immediately turn anti-immigrant, if they knew what the Syrians have been up to. Now, I don’t say AAAALLL imported Syrians are rapists or murderers. However I would say that all imported Syrians do not share our democratic and moral values. Hell, they would have no problem beheading our residential married homosexual here (I don’t remember his name).
Sandy/81
Krebs was selected by Trump. Was his firing a double bluff? Spooky stuff.
@Seversky:
> Krebs was selected by Trump. Was his firing a double bluff? Spooky stuff.
Hm, Trump did proclaim very early into the election, that he won, even when not all votes were counted. That was strange. Was he counting on Krebs and Dominion to give him the presindency? Maybe Biden’s people payed better than Trump’s?
Bob O’H: Ah, that makes it even more unlikely, as Bielefeld doesn’t even exist. ?
Very good. I only learned about this wives’ tale recently.
Pardon me if I’m forgetting something that was clearly spelled out earlier on t’other thread but:
What is the actual evidence that voting data was sent to servers in Germany and that they were subsequently seized in a raid?
AndyClue: The Syrians Merkel imported have been raping and in part murdering hundreds of young German women.
Hundreds? Really? There would be loads of police and hospital and morgue and funeral homes records then.
Attention KF, another legislature meeting is scheduled for today in Michigan
Of related, sobering, note as to how blatant ‘the steal’ actually was: ,,,The election ‘steal’ was, in many instances, as subtle as a mugging!
As well, Epoch Times has a pretty good state by state breakdown on the evidence that is ‘gushing forth’ for voter fraud:
Of related note:
Sen. Paul Rand
Interesting . . . Trump margin of “defeat” in 4 states occurred in 4 data dumps between 1:34-6:31 AM. Statistical anomaly? Fraud? Look at the evidence and decide for yourself.(That is, if Big Tech allows u to read this)
https://twitter.com/RandPaul/status/1333145534765428737
Here:http://www.legislature.mi.gov/.....3jd2mlpaa))/documents/2019-2020/Calendar/House/pdf/2020-HC-12-01-092.pdf is the Michigan State Legislature calendar for today. And yes, there is an entry regarding voting.
I’m sorry but WordPress is having trouble with the link: you’ll have to copy-and-paste it if you want to see it.
Project Veritas has gotten multiple recordings of CNN internal conference calls on how they manipulate the news. They plan on releasing them bit by bit over the next several days.
https://www.pscp.tv/w/1mnxeaBlrlNxX
I’m reading, actually listening to a book on DOSE, Habits of a Happy Brain. DOSE stands for dopamine oxytocin serotonin endorphins. Our habits are formed early in life and neuron connections are made bade on DOSE. So the commenters here who provide obstruction and false comments literally cannot help themselves since they get pleasure for each time they do it.
So have some understanding for the anti ID people. They are just doing what gives them pleasure. Agreeing with an ID person would deprive them of this pleasure. Using logic or evidence is counterproductive since they exist on emotions that make them feel good. Such an approach, logic and evidence, would be negative for them.
The feed just started,,,
and again, of related, sobering, note as to how blatant ‘the steal’ actually was: ,,,The election ‘steal’ was, in many instances, as subtle as a mugging!
JVL – copy/paste doesn’t work. Either use a link (i.e. put it in an a tag), or use a URL shortener like bit.ly.
Of course, they introduced the resolution on the day the legislature is dissolved, so it dies.
Now, they could re-introduce it in the new legislature, but it won’t affect the presidential race. if passed, though, it will say that the new legislature (and hence this resolution) is not legal. Presumably anyone who voted for it would stand by their convictions and resign to allow a new election to take place.
BA, is this really the “Michigan’s Senate Oversight Committee” meeting in their official capacity, or is this another self-selected subset meeting in a hotel?
First thing, what is a flash drive, even put in an envelope doing in the chain of custody.
VL, looks to be the actual Senate (formal seating and desks), but don’t hold me to it.
LIVE: Michigan Senate hearing on vote counting issues (Dec.1) | NTD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZXkAv7yKgw
VL, kindly see 56 above on witnesses. Greenleaf is a founder of the modern, anglophone school of thought on evidence. The witnesses must be heard on their own credibility as competent to be fact or technical/expertise witnesses; not brushed aside on any handy selectively hyperskeptical excuse. KF
Bob, I know that the Arizona legislature Chairman, at the end of the meeting last night, announced that he is calling a special session. As to PA, I would think the same would hold, and/or be possible, for them,,,
i.e. You might need another bag of popcorn, it appears they just loaded the second reel of the movie, and the movie has still got a ways to go,, 🙂 ,,, (If you remember how movie theaters were in the 1960s)
You can go back in to prepare ballots to match the predetermined count, leading to chain of custody [and scrutiny] on paper.
Fractional vote Ramsland[sp?] affidavit is printout from Dominion.
Kairosfocus: First thing, what is a flash drive, even put in an envelope doing in the chain of custody.
Say again how you know this happened.
Earlier I asked: what was the actual evidence that voting data was sent to a server in Germany and what was the actual evidence that that server was seized in some kind of raid.
VL, obvious committee hearings room, it seems bipartisan. KF
Concerns by witness 4 years ago. Has no confidence in recount. Asks for full forensic audit, with emphasis on chain of custody. Scrutineering required.
Dismissive remarks imply bipartisan.
Implication, need for forensic audit innocently explains no call for simple recount.
Signature validation 20 y/o, 8 match point signature checks, not up to current banking standards
It appears Republicans control the Senate and House in Mich.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_Legislature
New witness, poor chain of custody on moving paper ballots. Emphasis absentee.
🙂 Nowadays traitors are something normal and loyalty is very rare .
A party who encourage women to kill their own babies is a party of treason and its tentacle can reach everywhere and everyone.
What were agitators doing in the TCF center?
That was chilling,,,, ‘overriding’, via inserting 1-1-20 date, and then loading fraudulent votes for Biden directly into the system,,,
next witness saw,, In your face cheating on ballots,,,, with photos, and license plate number to back her testimony up
Libertarian spokesman warns and pleads for reasonable action
Mark Zuckerberg poured $400 million into this election, matching the federal government’s expenditure and through his charities, they paid the election judges.. they paid for the machines, and America was kicked out of the counting room.
https://mobile.twitter.com/KelemenCari/status/1333776460545482754
Poll challenger speaks to frustration of scrutineering, with inability to see closely enough.
30 k absentee ballots checked, 200+ dead, 2k6 improper address, vacant, burned down houses addresses.
according to witness, not one poll watcher challenge was ever accepted,,, all challenges she saw were simply denied no matter what,,,
next witness validated that no challenges were ever accepted,,,
next witness testified that a totally questionable ballot was given to Biden,,,, after appealling to ‘supervisor’, she was screamed at for objecting,,,
Military ballots all had date of 01/01/1900 entered into computer, all votes she could see were for Biden (of note, Biden is as popular in the military as SPAM is 🙂 )
Fraud validated case by case not by overall numbers, experienced consistent refusal of objections.
If our elections aren’t fair we don’t have a republic, it is a banana republic.
Drove thru snowstorm to do his bit to follow brave patriots
No evidence vs eyewitness testimony under penalty of perjury.
Ethernet lines go to bunches thence Internet, illegal.
Indian immigrant, agitators trying to kick republican out, use of intimidation.
Dominion tech hire,,, “What I saw at TCF was complete fraud”, stacks of ballots were run over and over, up to 10 times,,, She did not see a single ballot for Donald Trump the entire time she was there,,,
Dominion worker there 27 hrs, witnessed “fraud.” Saw ballots pushed through 8 – 10 times. Other techs obviously untrained. Did not see a single T ballot. Something going on, illegal. Freelance IT, PDS, contract to Dominion. Dominion Secretive, believes needed support as 2 people need to be on stage. Software, Sam, at warehouse. Chicago warehouse, secret. Data loss, just before sent there . . . server farm? 2 affidavits. tab mach ballot jams, error message, proper to discard [electronically? yes by implication], restack and feed afresh, instead run through 8 – 10 times. Jams 2 – 3 times/hr per machine, folded, mail-in. 8 x 20 = 160. Steel boxes used to block poll watchers. Called FBI, spoke 40 mins. Scheduled to work at Dept of Elections, claims fraud activity there. Strange, not to speak that yet but did so, to come out next week.
Have to fix this election, not just future ones.
Notice, evidence before Committee with the two parties is consistent with that of the two hearings before Republican State legislators, with affidavits and with media tapes. This undermines several dismissive arguments.
Either the fraud is allowed to stand, in which case it’s the end of Democracy in America, and perhaps the world, or justice is served and the world is saved. There’s no middle ground here.
Inadequate training, got take home to read, little substance little guidance on typical problem cases. Taught to threaten, not to listen to, you must keep distance, if insist, call police on poll challengers.
Describes intimidation, no follow up questions, has happened several times.
Supervisors wearing political messages.
Use of mask issues to accuse of bioterrorism
Shouting outside disruption, chair asks if someone will calm them down, to cease disruption.
Professional agtitators
Computers with update overdue, log in as administrators, harrassment
BA @73: From the article in the Spectator:
(Highlighting by me)
You have to trust them, as they stun you with their detailed knowledge.
Electronic list u/d 1st; 30 – 40 k register in 2 days, implied show up in absentee ballots, 2 – 3 Nov. Implausible. Frustrated from watching.
DiEb, Am Spectator, is US based. The tossaway remarks on Frankfurt are not focal to the article. See clip above. KF
Ballot dump 330 am after 8 pm limit, lack of transparency or chain of custody, estimates 50k ballots. Vid forbidden under penalty, affidavits crucial.
Confirms use of dolly to bring ballots in early morning dump at TCF
Intimidatioin –> breakdown of integrity
I think that’s enough of a cross section.
And? It isn’t over. Let them flesh out all the statistical imprints. The big jumps in Biden votes when he was behind. There has to be a reason for it. Cause and effect.
“the Justice Department has not uncovered evidence of widespread voter fraud that would change the outcome of the 2020 presidential election”
The Weasel Lives: I take this as an admission there is fraud, though.
“The issues Trump’s campaign and its allies have pointed to are typical in every election:”
The Weasel Part II: So fraud is typical in every election? Who is cleaning it up?
Andrew
Poll challenger, democratic challengers were allowed to sit at the table. republicans challengers were not allowed within 6 feet.
immigrant Poll challenger, after denigrating her for having English as her second language and being an immigrant, she was removed by police officers although she had done nothing wrong,,, she saw many other republican poll challengers being removed by police officers,,,,
Poll challenger, saw many violations of law, “Democrats ‘cheered’ when late arriving ballots (50 boxes) arrived, WHY???,,, It was “Pure and calculated fraud.”
tech expert,,, Open hole in the election computer system which can bypass verification checks, similar to someone having open access to your credit card,,,,
(Person with Christian T-Shirt was discriminated against and kicked out, same with Trump attire, while BLM masks, BLM attire, and Biden T-Shirts and attire were allowed),,,
Poll worker, ‘during training as a poll worker he was told to use 6 ft distance rule as a ‘weapon’ against republicans poll challengers”, trainer laughed and said ‘exactly, not unless they brought their binoculars” when it was pointed out that they could not see the ballots from 6 feet away,,, told to use police as a ‘first resort’ to remove challengers,,, provisional ballots were used to mislead voters that their
poll watcher, “It was a circus in there”,,, “parade of BLM” no Trump attire allowed,,, “it was ridiculous”
witness,,,, Every single tabulator was connected to the internet, we saw the router with our very own eyes,,, when confronted, the ‘officials’ denied it was connected to internet,,, demanded full forensic accounting,,, pleaded to not send electors,,, democrat leaders should also demand full audit in order to heal the nation,,,, until then half the nation will not accept the election as legitimate,,,
witness: I was there until they ‘stopped the count’,,,, not physically possible to count all the ballots they said they counted during that time,,,,
witness, 6 feet distance rule was used as a ‘excuse’ by democrats to throw republican poll workers out,,, Trump was up by 10%, my monitor went down in the middle of the night, voting system was rebooted,, data dump,,, saw that Trump ballots were removed from tabulation pile,,,,
witness, they were not following written procedures,,, inside ballots did not match outside envelope, they manually wrote the number on by hand,,,
witness; purposely blocking the views of republican poll watchers,,, legitimate challenges were completely ignored,,, it was a ‘mock election’
And for those slow on the uptake… if there is voter fraud, period, that means Voter Disenfranchisement, which is an issue that Liberals/Progs/Democrats pretend to care deeply about. I hope they pretend to do do something about it soon.
Andrew
Oh my God, they trust AG Barr!!
Jerry, I don’t trust Barr any farther than I can throw him. But it is a fact that he said the things he is quoted as saying.
Viola Lee,
At the end of your story:
“Congress passed a mammoth spending package late last year that included an additional $425 million in election security funding.”
So how we lookin’ with that? Money well spent?
Looking forward to your answers.
Andrew
VL, Dominion et al claim that they have non-connexion, bills on that are immaterial and distractive from the crucial point. Next, just how long, with how much effort did DOJ spend on the Steele dossier claims before issuing a report? What did they do on Mrs Clinton’s 30k missing emails, how fast? Then, let us connect a few dots here; i/l/o the emerging wave of evidence in hand. KF
F/N: Much more relevant:
H’mm China again . . .
Then, there is an Eric Trump Tweet, of course tagged disputed by Twitter:
Muy interesante, given the wave of just emerging evidence.
KF
kf @ 140 –
It does suggest that the American Spectator doesn’t care about simple facts that are easily checked. There’s a reason the city is called Frankfurt am Main and not Frankfurt am Ruhr.
If The American Spectator wants to be taken seriously, shouldn’t it employ at least vaguely competent fact checkers?
It could be worst, though. They could be asking Wisconsin to produce video of an election count in Detroit.
witness: I was there when they were boarding up the windows,,, only republican and non-partisan workers were excluded, no democrats were ever kicked out for anything,,, that by itself is enough to overturn the election,,,, ‘no one I know believes that this was a fair election’,,,
witness: TCF poll challenger,,, witnessed 500 ballots given to ladies to illegally ‘backdate’,,, stacks of 50 ballots were run through the tabulators.multiple times,,, witnessed military ballots with ‘Biden only’ vote, no down ballot,,, no Trump votes were seen in the military ballots,,,
witness: saw truckload of ballots come in between 3:30 and 4:00 AM, driver said he did not know where all the ballots came from,,,
witness: 80% of ballots were closed with packaging tape,,, 5 democratic lawyers,,, I was the only republican in the whole room
witness: heard that 10’s of thousands of ballots had arrived after election deadline, he drove down as a poll watcher to see and witnessed the ballots were not like the other ballots, missing information, etc.., also witnessed 1/1/1900 entered on many of the ‘illegal’ ballots,,,
witness: the harassment of republicans was ‘official’,,,,
witness: I was a poll chairman and then watcher, there needs to be a forensic analysis, simply because very many numbers did not match,,,, voter and ballot don’t go together,,,
witness: TCF was very hostile. 6 feet rule was used arbitrarily against republicans,,, but not democrats,,, saw cardboard put up to block view of republicans who wanted to see how the late arriving truckload of ‘illegal’ ballots was going to be handled,,,
‘expert’ witness: overt bias against republicans for decades in urban Mich,,, many ballots were not even folded,,, precincts in urban areas systematically don’t ‘balance’ their votes, recount should ‘open boxes’ in urban areas to get a honest audit. A honest audit or recount cannot happen at the level they conducted it at,,,,, 71% of Detroit ‘can’t be recounted’,,, asked for a forensic audit,,, says that we have sufficient laws on the books, says that the problem is that Democrats don’t enforce and follow the laws in the areas they control,,, Democrats can’t or won’t balance their elections,,,, Democrats won’t protect republican poll watchers from harassment, (‘officially’ encourage their harrassment). Current fake audit, does not take into account the 71% of ‘unbalanced’ Democratic precincts,,, If ‘Democrats did their job’, there currently would be no problem with fraud,,, clarification, 71% of absentee votes are not recountable. Only 28 % of in person votes are not recountable.
H’mm, Dominion connexions online: https://www.scribd.com/document/485933370/gov-uscourts-mied-350905-1-15#from_embed KF
Bob O’H @155
Exactemundo: Someone tried to show his familiarity with a quite arcane subject – German topography. Perhaps he misremembered something, perhaps he just did not care, perhaps everything is equal when you report on exotic places.
This tossaway remark should have been tossed away. That it was in the article does not fill me with confidence about anything else the author is proposing…..
edit:
just a tossaway remark: it’s Frankfurt am Main but Essen an der Ruhr as – for obvious reasons – the river Main is masculine while the river Ruhr is feminine (doooh)…
witness: I saw a lot of fraud take place, multiple inconsistencies, contacted lawyers and lawyers did not correct them,,, after late night Ballot dump everything changed from republican to democrats, despite sizable leads, was not allowed in to see what was happening with ballots at TCF, saw pizza boxes put on windows, heard from a Detroit police officer that police officers were ‘instructed’ to arrest Trump supporters,,,
witness at TCF ,,, eyewitness testimony from others at TCF is accurate,,, suggests camera systems for future elections,,,,
witness at TCF: ,,, saw discrepancy,,, supervisor ‘send it through anyway’… ,,, a lawyer was told to leave for asking about the count, everybody instructed to leave, would not let relief workers in, pizza boxes were then put up on windows ,,,
Chairman adjourned hearing,,,
BO’H:
What are called difficulties are common in dealing with historical and similar documents. Scholarship has long since learned that a fundamentally sound core narrative can involve anomalies, puzzles and even outright errors in some or even all sources or completed historical accounts; such, without compromising the core narrative or fundamental credibility.
Similarly, eyewitnesses commonly make errors of factual detail and are seemingly in significant mutual or even self contradiction, but it is then commonly found that there are deeper undesigned coincidences and a core coherent and factually well founded account, even where errors are present. That investigation is part of the task of the sound scholar. It is also one of the secrets of sifting forensic evidence, for collusion produces superficial sing off the same hymn sheet agreement — especially on what is readily checked or what will fit expectations of the intended audience — with deeper inconsistencies, the opposite signature.
Likewise, as a rule, early reports on a matter are incomplete and sometimes face significant errors, without compromising the core.
The attempt to use what is manifestly peripheral and “distantiat[ed]” in the above article to imply or invite inferred guilt by invidious association, onward rhetorically inviting dismissal of the core narrative is thus an example of selective hyperskepticism. Our focus should be on what is argued in the main. [Pun, not intended.]
That argument, in turn, should reflect the continent-wide pattern emerging from many witnesses who on the face of it are sincere, widely diverse and deeply concerned over what they are finding as unacceptable conduct with a major election.
Beyond that, the emerging evidence of a cyber battlespace and operations with findings by responsible officer, should be given due weight.
KF
1: Does anyone have any solid basis (i.e.: a source document) for knowing whether the people giving “testimony” at the various “hearings” in Pa, Arizona, Michigan filed affidavits that matched their testimony or at least that their testimony was genuinely “under oath”?
2: If not, isn’t it all just theater?
3. if yes, were they also filed in court? If not, why not? If yes, what was the result, and why?
Good questions, Es58. Good luck getting answers.
DiEb,
kindly note the just above.
It is simply not the case that the location of Frankfurt was more than a peripheral remark.
Now, an anglophone audience would be familiar with one or two significant features and rivers of S, W and SW Germany, the Rhine and the Ruhr zone, both due to intersection with the history of major wars, esp WW2 — crossing the Rhine and bombardment of the Ruhr.
Where, for background colour, it is not insignificant to observe a subtlety arising in say, how Enc Brit begins its article on the Main river: >>Main River, Latin Moenus, river, an important right- (east-) bank tributary of the Rhine in Germany.>> Wikipedia: >>The Ruhr is a river in western Germany (North Rhine-Westphalia), a right tributary (east-side) of the Rhine. >>
Likewise, unsurprisingly, Wikipedia begins: >>The Main . . . is the longest tributary of the Rhine . . . . The largest cities on the Main are Frankfurt am Main, Offenbach am Main and Würzburg.[citation needed] It is the longest river lying entirely in Germany (if the Weser-Werra are considered separate). >>
So, if anything, discussion should have been on the broad zone of the Rhine and its tributaries as a key human settlement pattern. Tut tut, Spectator, marks off for missing geography. But only marks off as this was not a geography essay or one driven by river systems and human settlement tendencies since the days of hydraulic empires and rise of civilisations.
Note, in ages before the English Channel (the days of Doggerland), even the Thames was apparently also a Rhine tributary — it would have been right bank too, as the mouth of the river system then was S of modern England off what is now Britanny. Even the Seine comes in, on L Bank, showing the dominance of that river in that whole region of then Europe; comparable to the Mississippi in the USA.
The Rhine remnant of today, unsurprisingly, thus dominates W, S, SW Germany and linked regions as a grand drainage basin. Main and Ruhr alike are tributaries.
That’s just for context, as it seems we would likely face a sidetrack on geography of W Europe otherwise.
So, let’s get this geography debate out of our system and return to focus.
For that, today, the witnesses were before a bipartisan State legislature committee, in MI, with a key focus on ground zero for counting/tabulation misconduct, the TCF center in downtown Detroit.
This, being a major and troubled city in the Great Lakes-St Lawrence river system; yet another example of civilisational settlements dominated by water features. Once, centre of the US Automotive industry, but now a deep blue city haunted by urban decline.
The pattern that we saw in PA and AZ has been reinforced, showing its substantial plausibility as speaking to unpleasant but strategically pivotal truth if the American Republic is to be saved from decline to banana republic status. A possible fate that is pregnant with potentially deadly global geostrategic consequences.
In effect, the Ac 27 storm issue for the ship of state is to claw off line of drift to the fatal sandbars of Syrtis off the Libyan coast, and try to beach at Malta [= haven in Phoenician] or Sicily.
That is the kairos we collectively face.
And yes, Ac 27 is a prophetic scriptural example with much to teach us about the ship of state and its perils.
KF
ES58 (attn VL), if you listened, you would have heard that come up in each hearing and today it was essentially routine. Many witnesses have submitted affidavits and were often working from same. This implies that the evidence in the main was under the penumbra of oath under penalty of perjury, and witnesses would doubtless have been advised by their legal counsel to that effect. In the case of Col Waldron, he was also reporting on Army cyber operations in the cyber battlespace under uniform code of military justice; i.e. courts martial. Indeed, it seems there are hundreds of affidavits and more are being compiled with time. KF
A witness of Biden’s broken leg incident.
There is much more evidence that is given in the video:, well worth watching!
KF
you wrote: Indeed, it seems there are hundreds of affidavits and more are being compiled with time. KF
So then you’re suggesting that it is expected that these claims might get to some court where they might have some impact? And, what, if any, impact can be expected after certification?
KF
you wrote: Indeed, it seems there are hundreds of affidavits and more are being compiled with time. KF
So then you’re suggesting that it is expected that these claims might get to some court where they might have some impact? And, what, if any, impact can be expected after certification? It’s almost as if the system is set up in such a way to make it impossible to challenge election results, oh wait…
Not a smoking gun,,,, a ‘smoking cannon”
WATCH THE PRESS CONFERENCE LIVE:
Press Conference by Amistad Project on ‘Election Whistleblowers Come Forward’ (Dec. 1) | NTD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=av-yC4mR5xo&feature=emb_logo
ES58, the legislatures inherit the powers of parliament. They too are courts. They are judging the outcomes of tainted elections and Constitutional backstops are in play; if Governors and Secretaries of State join in the taint, they can and should be repudiated by state legislatures under their Constitutional powers once the reality of utterly untrustworthy results now and in future come home. The court of the informed increasingly disgusted — and armed — public also counts. Some things likely will end in the Supreme Court. Hundreds of people from all walks are clearly laying all on the line to warn about what they saw, that is in the end going to break through the sing off the same hymn sheet no evidence talking point wall. Esp if and as cyberwar operations results come out, see link above. KF
Well, i stay away for a day and I see that we haven’t gotten beyond the tinfoil hat conspiracy theories.
Is there any confirmed evidence of fraud? No?
F/N: Project Veritas, aka rogue journalism Inc, has been taping CNN conference calls for two months and will be releasing clips several times per day across this week; starting now, on how consensus is being MANUFACTURED rather than soundly informed. The echo of Mr Moneybags backing his bought and paid for technico in Ac 27 should be reckoned with. KF
PS: First clip, on “racism” of Mr Carlson, directly echoing the Marxist Critical Race Theory themes of the ongoing colour revolution push. Theme colour obvious from the riots across the Summer, black. Second, on the disputed election and locking out reporting the disputed status as not giving Mr Trump a platform. Instead of issues, Constitutional framework, and history such as 1800 and 1824 or 1876 there is pointing to how poor transition in 2000 allegedly set up the 9/11 attacks. Of course, there was a disputed election led by . . . Democrat Al Gore, VP under Mr Clinton. Laying down the hymn sheet lines to sing from.
MMT, you seem to imagine that your slanderous namecalling defines reality; newsflash, it doesn’t though it lets us understand what you are by using the mirror principle as to how what you project reflects what lies within, where, sadly but by now not unexpectedly, it is definitely not careful consideration of evidence and concerns on the table. That is in itself confirmation of the pattern of objections we have seen over the years for far too many cases. In this case, you have refused to show basic respect to dozens of people from all walks of life who — at risk to themselves — went on record in affidavits under penalty of law and were before a Committee of the MI legislature today, speaking to flesh out a now sadly familiar continent-wide pattern on the way the election was carried out and what is wrong with key gadgetry and software. KF
PS: No, you don’t get to sweep away eyewitness testimony from multiple, independent witnesses because you don’t like what is being testified to.
KF
Nope. I imagine that evidence defines reality. Do you actually have evidence of election fraud? Or are you relying on evidence presented at hearings where nobody is under oath? Or claims that Dominion has links to Venezuela when there is no evidence for this? Or claims that the Dominion systems are prone to manipulation when every audit and recount has shown no problem? Or anecdotal “just so” stories? Or excel scatter plots based on false premises? Or the fact that mail in ballots favor Biden? or that ballots from large cities favor Biden?…
Sorry, but your recurrent claim of selective hyperskepticalism only applies to two or three people on this thread. And one of them isn’t me. If you are looking for who it applies to I suggest that you look for the nearest mirror. Given your love of your own opinion, I doubt if you are ever far from a mirror
One single anonymous accusation against Trump and the media go into a 24/7 frenzy. Four federal investigations, 500 witnesses, $50 million dollars of taxpayer money and no evidence whatsoever; when placed under oath, those accusing Trump of conspiring with Russia on TV night after night admit they have seen zero evidence of it. Yet, people still believe it is true.
Yet, hundreds of witnesses testify to election fraud and not a peep from the mainstream media, people call it “theater,” and “tinfoil hat” conspiracy theories.
This disparity remains without even an attempted explanation by the skeptical here. Can you imagine if there was this much evidence for the Russia Collusion conspiracy theory? Trump would have been drummed out of office and arrested long ago, and a lot of his staff and associates probably tried for treason-related charges. Yet, not a single “Russian Collusion” charge whatsoever for any US citizen.
It’s getting harder and harder to continue with any of the skeptical here under the principle of charity. The best I can do is assume TDS and/or extreme cognitive dissonance.
The position that there wasn’t massive, organized fraud for Biden this election isn’t even reasonably tenable anymore considering the evidence currently available, and there’s supposedly much more yet to come.
Trump inciting violence, says Georgia election official
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-55153918
And, again: what is the actual evidence that voting data was transferred to a server in German (somewhere) and that the server was seized in a gunfight?
Or is it all just rumour and hearsay?
JVL, you are refusing to attend to the affidavit-backed, under Uniform Military code testimony and presentation of Col Waldron, who reports that white hat hackers of the US Army were observing the traffic live. This is supported by others. I know of no one who affirms as established fact that a gunfight occurred, so I object to the AND connective. Several parties do affirm in a context that would be generally under oath, that a server was seized. In due course, such may be confirmed. As WJM highlights, the selective hyperskepticism joined to persistent refusal to attend to evidence adequate for normal discussion and certainly civil action per preponderance of evidence speaks. Further to this, there is a rhetorical suggestion implicit in repeated demands of this nature, that in reality such are accusations being drummed in psychologically through repeated emphasis and invidious association. KF
PS: I find it interesting that at no point have the objectors in this and previous threads, repeatedly presented with massive evidence of violence through street action by BLM and Antifa rioters — they and the media insist on “protesters” [I am focussing on the rioters] — then now ugly intimidation and machine politics in election centres, acknowledged this as a problem. But now, an isolated case is raised on what would be wrongful behaviour were it shown true. This reeks of projection and demonisation through utter want of balance.
Kairosfocus: you are refusing to attend to the affidavit-backed, under Uniform Military code testimony and presentation of Col Waldron, who reports that white hat hackers of the US Army were observing the traffic live.
So, it was his testimony . . . was him or someone else that said they saw traffic but they could not confirm it was from Dominion Voting Systems?
KF:
Agreed, it was just a peripheral remark, highlighting the authors diligence when it comes to plausible sounding factoids.
And it sheds a light on your willingness to pontificate at length about topics after a short Google search! FYI, Ruhrgebietis a metropolitan area in Germany – as is Rhein-Main-Gebiet. Though the term is quite traditional, it was codified in 1995 by the Ministerkonferenz für Raumordnung.
Well, take that to said Ministerkonferenz!
Your argument boils down to “Actually, you’ll find that I’m correct historically”, which could be the last words of an explorer after insulting the natives.
🙂 I have a question for people saying there is no evidence of fraud : Do you have evidences these elections have happened?
If you can’t audit the whole process, no chain of custody,
no observers, no audit of machines, no signature matches then there were no elections in 2020.
MMT,
WJM is right in his comment following yours. Following up, no, evidence does not define reality. It merely reflects it, taking this to effectively mean empirical observation, record etc. Evidentialism is demonstrably self-referentially incoherent and utterly ill advised.
Next, you refuse to acknowledge even the most basic public facts, already presented by way of definition in your presence, that an affidavit is a declaration of witnessed facts under oath and penalty of perjury, involving years of incarceration. There are hundreds of such affidavits on the table, and witnesses by the dozen testifying are speaking under that penumbra; thus are under oath by direct implication of the affidavits. I am sure that were there material contradictions or a wave of retractions of such, you and others would pounce on that to impeach and discredit not only individuals but the whole. Your refusal of manifest readily accessible facts on that speaks.
In addition Col Waldron is speaking of US Army cyber war operations, under penalty of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, thus the much harsher test of court martial.
That you refuse to acknowledge such is already decisive, showing unwillingness to address inconvenient facts. Such is already discrediting.
Next, there is context. Legislatures of the anglophone world, in key part, are courts; inheriting ancient powers from the mother of parliaments to try facts and law and even impose rulings with sentences enforced under law. You recently saw that in action in the impeachment and failed trial of the current US President. In this context, Legislatures and delegations of such can carry out investigations, then proceed on such to take up their constitutional powers to determine the choice of delegates to the Electoral College.
Such are public facts, of longstanding establishment. They have been pointed to in your presence, so there is no excuse for onward pretended doubt as to their reality. You show yourself closed against public facts, giving us the right to draw severe conclusions regarding your further claims and arguments. You would have been better advised to argue otherwise.
Going further, your denial of publicly available and presented facts showing that the Venezuela connexion was known since 2006 in the public, and was raised as recently as last year by Democrat Legislators, speaks. Your dismissal of affidavit by a man risking life not just incarceration to blow the whistle speaks.
You allude to recounts and “audits,” where you know or should know that the techniques in use were designed to evade what has been done so far: counts of tainted ballot sets have no bearing on the matter. Where, the primary, most material source of taint is the use of effectively uncontrolled mail-in ballots and associated third party harvesting, tied to breakdown of chain of custody.
Similarly, the presence of fractional votes in public reports while counting was in progress where such ought not have been, as was exhibited in the previous thread’s OP and as was noted in your presence indicates beyond reasonable doubt and the known properties of integers, algorithmic interference with the count.
Even floating point numbers based on wholes and summed properly would only give .000 . . . fractional parts. However, as rationals [what we can process arithmetically, note we round say pi to a rational in calculation] are open to further operations, their use is already a breakdown of protections. Interference by software that is not transparent and running on machines that are similarly not transparent is thus demonstrated by printout given in expert affidavit.
The American fascination with gadgetry is here an open door to fraud.
Your similarly dismissive treatment of far fluctuation statistical patterns and associated red flags reflects the same pattern.
Were this a matter of little consequence, it would be a simple matter to let you and those you are here enabling have their head, and run over a cliff, showing the manifest march of folly.
But that is precisely what cannot in any reasonable prudence, be allowed to happen.
On matters of such grave import, we must seek to identify trouble well ahead and avert it. This of course raises Machiavelli’s hectic fever dilemma. Political disorders are like that complaint at the first readily cured but hard to diagnose. But if at length for want of prompt diagnosis and timely treatment the course of the disease becomes manifest to one and all, it is then far too late to cure. At that point, the prognosis is grim.
The USA is the leading global maritime power, guardian of global stability. Its economy is a crucial engine of economic stability. It is the motherland of modern self government by free people, under Constitution and with general elections as a peaceful means to the tested will of the people. If a colour revolution and linked injection of enablers of fraud go through there, grave damage is done everywhere. Just as, c 400 BC, due to Athenian folly and defeat in the Peloponnesian war, classical democratic government was discredited for over 2,000 years.
No sane person wants to revert to oligarchy, much less the lawless oligarchy of a Marxist ideologically driven nomenklatura; which is what lurks behind this black theme colour revolutionary push. Something that the BEEB just inadvertently confirmed in its report of the victory lap being taken by BLM founders; cf. OP above, which you have of course studiously evaded, never mind months of refusal to take evidence of such a push seriously. Of course, those who deny basic facts on the nature of affidavits have no hesitation to dismiss such things. (And as for the deep past of origins, you just managed to demonstrate why the objectors to the design inference on reliable sign have no credibility.)
It is time for the charioteer of the virtues to take the reins, prudence.
The choice the USA faces now is, acknowledge and take drastic action to correct ONE tainted election; or else, cede that no election from now on will have any credibility.
With that choice on the table, the 4th gen civil war that was initiated over the past several years through leftist, culture form marxism influenced ruthless power brokers, lawyers, media figures and their backers, just kicked up an order of magnitude in intensity.
Regardless of who is sworn in Jan 20, the genie has been let loose and is running riot. Chaos follows, as night follows day. I am confident the radicals will be defeated, with strategic decision within the next 13 months and counting down. However, the cost is going to be horrific or worse. Those who opened the flood gates to fraud have some ‘splaining to do.
I put back on the table, again, the moral duty challenge you and others busily enabling the march of folly, have repeatedly refused to cogently address:
Sad, but that is what we now face, in an Ac 27 storm.
KF
DiEb, I saw a distraction, set it in wider context, and duly note that that wider context obtains. The river systems of W and S Germany have been duly noted on and set in context of the past 12kY or so, with import for human settlement. [And no, the Doggerland issue is no mere quick google search exercise, it connects to roots of Britain; I recall being struck by the reports of the extended Rhine basin and how the Thames was once a tributary — they call the ancient river under the Channel, the Channel River. The Seine was a tributary too but France is not so central.] Similar patterns have been noted on from founding of human civilisations to the situation of Detroit, ground zero for machine politics and a desperate voting public that has long tolerated such dirty politics. Am Spec has been duly tut-tutted, docked marks and now we can deal with the substantial issue: there is a serious electoral fraud issue on the table an it is not tinfoil hat kookery to be concerned. Can we now face it? KF.
Wistleblowers USPS,,,,
Phil Kline: Two Trailers Full of Completed Ballots Were Delivered to Pennsylvania from NY — One on November 4th! (VIDEO)
Excerpt: On Tuesday night Kline (Amistad Project) described one load that was delivered to Pennsylvania in October and a second load of completed ballots that were delivered to Pennsylvania on November 4th to Delaware County.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/trump-attorney-phil-kline-two-trailers-full-completed-ballots-delivered-pennsylvania-ny-one-november-4th-video/
Video interview with Lou Dobbs
Attorney Phil Kline: Two Trailers Full of Filled Out Ballots Delivered to Pennsylvania from NY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRfF5WePmRo&feature=emb_logo
Lou Dobbs ‘The evidence for fraud is almost everywhere!”
Comment on YouTube,,, “THE DEMOCRATS COMMITTED THE BIGGEST VOTER FRAUD IN HISTORY………”
Via the evidence I have seen thus far, I agree completely with both of those statements… Those statements are not hyperbole!
Kairosfocus: In addition Col Waldron is speaking of US Army cyber war operations, under penalty of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, thus the much harsher test of court martial.
Is that true? He is retired from the US military so, unless he was revealing secrets he learned whilst on active duty I don’t think military justice has anything to do with it.
Today, Col. Waldron’s testimony gained added heft when we got to see a declaration from an intelligence analyst at the 305th Military Intelligence Unit (“the Kraken” unit). The declaration has specific evidence showing that, on November 8, 2020, Dominionvotingsystems.com, which is Dominion Voting System’s proprietary URL, was connected over the internet to Belgrade, Iran, China – and to “the Indivisible (formerly ACORN) political group for Obama.”
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/12/evidence_supports_sidney_powells_claim_about_global_election_fraud.html
Here is the declaration,,,
https://www.scribd.com/document/485933370/gov-uscourts-mied-350905-1-15#from_embed
Es58 @
Several of the TCF affidavits did get into court, but the judge wasn’t impressed. He heard evidence that they didn’t know what they were talking about, e.g. they hadn’t attended the training session that had been organised. And he had an affidavit from a person who had worked on elections for decades, and was also at the TCF centre, which he found more credible (for reasons he explains).
F/N: U/D’s 2, 3, 4 to OP on the MI hearings, Dobbs’ revelation on trailer loads of ballots from NY to PA [HT BA77], and a short geostrategic backgrounder. KF
Bornagain77: The declaration has specific evidence showing that, on November 8, 2020,
So, well after the election.
Dominionvotingsystems.com, which is Dominion Voting System’s proprietary URL
Their servers, NOT their voting machines. In some sense ANY server on the internet is ‘connected’ to any other server because it’s a giant web.
was connected over the internet to Belgrade, Iran, China – and to “the Indivisible (formerly ACORN) political group for Obama.”
But not Germany. Does Dominion have work going on in Belgrade, Iran or China?
JVL, see BA77. I had linked it earlier. The Col speaks as expert and witness to the relevant traffic and military obligations are effectively lifelong. It is unlikely that references to an unleashed Kraken, in the context of a unit with that nickname, are mere coincidence. I suspect, signalling behaviour. KF
NY *sent 26×2=52 pallets with mail in ballots to be counted in PA. FBI can solve the mystery in few hours. We have an employee and a number of trailer ,how hard can be to find out the employer and ask him few questions ? 🙂
If the voting fraud affidavits are not getting into courts (and why would that be?) then why are the Trumpsters talking about them so much? Are they using them to whip up righteous indignation?
You have to admit, Uncle Rudy and Sidney Powell are pursuing their stated goals very strangely IF they have loads of evidence.
Sandy: NY *sent 26×2=52 pallets with mail in ballots to be counted in PA. FBI can solve the mystery in few hours. We have an employee and a number of trailer ,how hard can be to find out the employer and ask him few questions ? ?
Perhaps they have already looked at it. The Attorney General of the US (a Trump ally) has said that there have been investigations and nothing has been found that could have an effect on the outcome of the election.
JVL, the oral testimony specifically identified Dominion and traffic to Frankfurt, Germany being witnessed. In any case, such ‘net traffic didn’t ought ter be dere, period. Likewise, fractions of votes. The further witnesses who traced ethernet cables in voting centres and issues on the hollowness of claimed air gaps point to the Internet connectivity that further compromises the system. Why not go through the live notes on testimony above? KF
Ha Ha Ha, Veritas strikes again!
SURPRISE! James O’Keefe pops into CNN staff call, tells Jeff Zucker he’s been recording calls for months
“We’ve got a lot of recordings that indicate you’re not really that independent of a journalist.”
– December 1, 2020
https://thegreggjarrett.com/surprise-james-okeefe-pops-into-cnn-staff-call-tells-jeff-zucker-hes-been-recording-calls-for-months/
#CNNTapes
https://www.projectveritas.com/news/cnntapes-reveal-networks-bias-against-president-trump-tucker-carlson-he/
JVL, contrast the treatment of the Steele Dossier and Mrs Clinton’s 30k emails on duration and intensity of investigation. Then watch the vid and come back to us on what legitimate, innocent credible answer there is on a trailer load of ballots going NY to PA during an election. At this point, official statements need to be scrutinised, given currently emerging evidence and bland declarations on the most secure election ever. No way, given the effectively uncontrolled mail-in ballots and ballot harvesting by 3rd parties. Something is deeply wrong. KF
BA77, several clips were already linked above at 172. BTW, NY and GA are apparently one party consent states for recording phone conversations, Mr O’Keefe would count as the one party to the conference calls in question. KF
F/N: Gateway Pundit reports on a press conference with vid (so, watch the vid):
This last, is the trailer mentioned already.
KF
ba77 @ 186 – how do we know that this doesn’t just mean that people in Belgrade, Iran, and China visited Dominion’s website?
BTW, you do know that the 305th Military Intelligence Battalion’s job is to do basic training?
“When I hear people use the record of courts denying hearings, denying relief, denying discovery, as their argument against issues in this election, I am reminded — what was MLK’s record in court? The corruption of power is the problem, not evidence [that] there is no problem.”
https://twitter.com/Barnes_Law/status/1333989164929355777
BO’H, the oral testimony is on election traffic being seen. Second, a training unit by definition will have highly qualified experts in it capable of the required white hat hacking. Where, I add, these are not Seal Team 6 raiders and shooters, these are hackers; who need to keep their hands in in a fast-moving technology environment or they will be disqualified automatically through staleness. I think the daily count on fresh malware items alone is up to the 1,000’s. 20 years ago I was shocked at 200 per week. The underlying issue is, you are dealing with sworn, affidavit based testimony. KF
M62, boom. KF
Attention KF,,, Michigan Senate to hear Gulliani this evening
As well, tomorrow Georgia’s Senate will be holding hearings which will also be live streamed
And again, Epoch Times has a excellent state by state breakdown of breaking news for voter fraud investigation
Of related note to the breaking news from ‘Amistad”,,,
Amistad’s Phil Kline, on Laura Ingraham’s show Monday, said that he will have more bombshell revelations coming over the next few days,,, that is to say, more bombshell revelations one top of the one he revealed in yesterday via the USPS whistleblowers,,,
I see Epoch Times is going to a walled garden model.
…there are thousands of witnesses and number increase every day and fbi cia already looked at it? Of course not. It’s the swamp saying that it smells like roses.
We know how quickly acted fbi about “russian collusion” against Trump(Obama so incompetent to secure elections? outsmarted by russians ?). We see now fbi is invisible against Biden. We understand. We are not born yesterday.
kf –
But how do we know that? I can’t see anything in the affidavit saying this.
They would, presumably, be trained in that and not in finding out where missiles have been fired. I don’t think surface to air missiles are usually Wifi enabled, so their relevance to the person’s expertise isn’t clear.
BO’H: Simply listen to the tape. Do you imagine that lying in the general context will not be taken as impeaching the affidavit? And, repeat cyber security. KF
@bornagain:
> The declaration has specific evidence showing that, on November 8, 2020, Dominionvotingsystems.com, which is Dominion Voting System’s proprietary URL, was
Do we have any evidence that dominionvotingsystems.com is still Dominion’s?
The Waybackmachine in the presentation shows a redirect to dominionvoting.com in 2011 (!), which makes sense, if they planned to give up the domain name. (https://pttgopolitics.com/hatepolitics/M.1606056823.A.255.html or https://web.archive.org/web/20201101000000*/dominionvotingsystems.com)
Kairosfocus: JVL, the oral testimony specifically identified Dominion and traffic to Frankfurt, Germany being witnessed. In any case, such ‘net traffic didn’t ought ter be dere, period.
So, there is no conceivable, good reason that Dominion, apart from the voting, should be talking to Germany? Really? How can you tell, IF there was traffic, that it had anything to do with voting results?
Likewise, fractions of votes.
Disputed and, in fact, only flagged up by one person who INITIALLY said it was Dominion but then changed his mind later because he couldn’t remember which companies were acting where.
The further witnesses who traced ethernet cables in voting centres and issues on the hollowness of claimed air gaps point to the Internet connectivity that further compromises the system.
Has that testimony been admitted into a court of law? Has that claimant been cross-examined to make sure what they think they saw they saw?
JVL, contrast the treatment of the Steele Dossier and Mrs Clinton’s 30k emails on duration and intensity of investigation.
Different issue, different conversation. When examining a potential crime other situations are not relevant.
Then watch the vid and come back to us on what legitimate, innocent credible answer there is on a trailer load of ballots going NY to PA during an election.
The truth of that has not been established! Remember some of the claims have turned out to have perfectly reasonable and innocent explanations. Remember too that all these accusations have been ‘out there’ for quite a while and that the US Attorney General (a friend of Donald Trump) has publicly stated in his official capacity that they have been checking on things and have yet to find anything significant. Are you publicly accusing him of lying? Would you do so under oath?
At this point, official statements need to be scrutinised, given currently emerging evidence and bland declarations on the most secure election ever.
Fine, if it helps clear things up, go for it.
No way, given the effectively uncontrolled mail-in ballots and ballot harvesting by 3rd parties.
Again, an unsubstantiated claim. Which you choose to believe whereas I’ll wait until it’s confirmed.
“On October 21, he arrived at Bethpage where he saw 24 gaylords (large cardboard containers used by USPS) and was told they contained mail-in ballots.”
“He was told . . . ” C’mon guys, that’s not very solid. Anyway, has anyone spoken to the postal service about what was in the loads?
“The experts and investigators conclude that this behavior likely reflects concern by those aware of the potential illegal behavior and their attempts to prevent discovery of that behavior.”
They could have been smuggling iPhones and lied to the driver, just said something to shut him up.
the oral testimony is on election traffic being seen.
How can you tell it’s election traffic? Does it wave little signs as it goes by? AND, one of the observers clearly said they could NOT tell if it was election traffic.
Simply listen to the tape. Do you imagine that lying in the general context will not be taken as impeaching the affidavit?
Just because someone THINKS they saw something doesn’t make it so. How many people have sworn up and down that they’ve seen a UFO or even been captured by aliens? How many people claim to be psychic? How many people claim they can dowse for water? How many people think Homeopathy helps them? Or acupuncture? How many people believe in ghosts? How many people believe in evil possession? When ever any of those things are carefully tested and scrutinised the incident has a simpler explanation or the effect disappears!
Carefully check the stories, talk to the pertinent employers, supervisors, etc and see if there isn’t a plausible, perfectly innocent explanation for what was observed. All of us who are parents have learned how to do this with our children when they were young. I’m not saying some adults are children but confirmation bias is a powerful thing: when you see something ambiguous and you’re looking for something nefarious it’s easy to ascribe evil intent when there is none.
How many of you would be glad to, publicly under oath, accuse the Attorney General of lying? How about the Dominion employees? How about the USPS? How about all the government officials from all the contested states that have said there was little to no fraud? How about Mr Krebs who was fired for saying what he thought was true. Your hypothesis involves literally thousands of people you think are guilty of crimes. If you hesitate at all before saying yes then ask yourself why? Are you afraid of the conspiracy blowing back on you or is there still some tiny bit of doubt, that maybe we haven’t seen the whole picture yet?
AC, see the oral testimony and corroborating testimony indicating unacknowledged Internet access for the voting-tabulation etc network. Similarly, note the fractional votes in the reporting stream to the media as can be seen in the previous OP. A traffic jump from 7 Gb/s to 10 Gb/s traffic level is not consistent with a moribund site or the typical spoof site or the like (see no 10 above); that’s a good slice of an optical fibre’s capacity. And much more. KF
PS: Folks, remember always, the wider context that is being so consistently side-stepped and buried under tangential commentary by objectors, where the main issues lie, the failed moral duty challenge:
My conclusion is, that either the US immediately faces and deals with the contentious reality of a deeply flawed, tainted election or else it faces consequences of sending the message to dozens of millions that no US election going forward is credible — and witnesses coming forward yesterday were quite clear that they were deeply concerned on just that. Such, starts with the GA runoff in several weeks’ time.
Bornagain77: Amistad’s Phil Kline, on Laura Ingraham’s show Monday, said that he will have more bombshell revelations coming over the next few days,,, that is to say, more bombshell revelations one top of the one he revealed in yesterday via the USPS whistleblowers,,,
Sounds familiar. We’ll see if it materialises and if it makes it into a court of law.
U/D5, ordinary people vs the media narrative.
AC, I’m not getting into the weeds with Dominion. I supplied that link as a courtesy to KF. I am sitting in the nosebleed section as far as that line of evidence is concerned.
Right now I am far more interested in the eyewitness testimonies that have consistently testified to widespread voter fraud.
For instance, I find it interesting that in the Mich. senate hearing yesterday, the Democratic Senators would surely have brought forth any eyewitnesses they had to counter the very, very, many claims of widespread voter fraud in Mich. .
They brought forth none!
Why has no eyewitness come forth for them? Surely they would not have let such jaw-dropping and shocking claims of widespread voter fraud go unchallenged if they could have done so with their own eyewitnesses?
The Democrats did not provide any witnesses!
In fact, so damning is this testimony against them, I’m surprised they did not unscrupously try to supply at least a few false witnesses.
They did not even do that.
As such, I hold the testimony given yesterday to be, by and large, extremely trustworthy and correct,,,
Here are my notes on the eyewitness testimony in MIch. that I was able to collect yesterday,,, when I was able to get away from my work long enough to take notes,,,
Again, why did the Senate Democrats of Mich. not offer any rebuttal witnesses? Surely if they had any witnesses to testify to the contrary they would have brought them forth. This is simply devastating.
If the same type of testimony were received in a murder trial, i.e. testimony of multiple witness testifying that they had all seen the defendant commit the murder from numerous different angles, and the murderer presented no witness, or any evidence, to the contrary, the trial would be over and the murderer swiftly convicted.
Again, this type of eyewitness testimony, with no defense even offered against it, (nor was it even suggested that they might have eyewitnesses come forward in the future to contradict the claims), is simply completely devastating to the Democrat’s claim that their is no evidence of widespread voter fraud. In fact, it completely blows their claim that there is no evidence for widespread voter fraud completely out of the water.
As to this crime’s weight in the law, and since this specific crime undermines the foundation of our election process, I hold this crime to be on the same level of the crime as treason against United States itself is,,,,
Democrats with integrity should be just as upset, indeed more upset since it is their party that is involved.
Somewhere above someone wrote, “Are they using them to whip up righteous indignation?” as a reason why all these allegations are being spread around without actually showing up in court. I think one of the reasons is that they are being used to whip up cash contributions to help fund, among other things, Trump’s campaign debts. The whole things is being used successfully as a cash cow even if it’s not being successful in the courts.
BA77, my comment is that that there are facts on the table, and the witnesses need to be taken seriously but I have been explicit, from the previous thread, the primary case is the moral duty challenge on public facts that has been failed. Failed in a way that is tantamount to knowing wrongful intent. That puts us in the position of the leading democratic state having to address a deeply flawed election now or else face dozens of millions convinced for cauyse that no elections going forward will be credible. The latter is where you
do.
not.
ever.
want.
to.
go.
The issues obtain, even were there perfect perfomance in TCF and other centres for voting, tallying etc.
KF
PS: Again, the core challenge:
Kairosfocus: My conclusion is, that either the US immediately faces and deals with the contentious reality of a deeply flawed, tainted election or else it faces consequences of sending the message to dozens of millions that no US election going forward is credible — and witnesses coming forward yesterday were quite clear that they were deeply concerned on just that.
Why not examine all the claims, interview the pertinent people and participants, put everything in the public record and see IF the election was tainted? Oh, that’s right, you’ve already decided.
The real problem is that The Trumpster has convinced a large group of people that there was fraud so no matter what happens someone will be angry and untrusting of the next election. Thank goodness more and more Republicans are jumping off the sinking ship. Trust a politician to save their own skin before going down with the vessel.
JVL, you again duck the main reason why I conclude deep, wrongful intent driven tainting. I remind you again, this is based on public facts not in dispute:
yes, onward testimony is important and just yesterday I spent considerable time in effect live blogging on such as can be seen above, so did BA77. Such fits in with what I am warning about but it does not have ability to overturn it. TCF etc could have been perfectly run on tainted effectively uncontrolled mail in ballots the election would still be fatally flawed. The unprofessional conduct being multiply attested to simply augments the main point. Such includes the questions on the technology and its results including of course fractional value votes.
KF
PS: As a reminder, from the testimony of experts clipped in Ms Powell’s MI filing:
Relevant votes come by the ones, so this is direct reason to believe something is very wrong with the software. that goes back 20 years as I showed in the previous thread.
Back at 187, Bob linked to an actual case (thanks, Bob) where evidence was considered by the judge, which I found interesting reading, as it shows how flimsy and in fact wrong quite a few times the challengers were in their affidavits. My guess is that this would be the general result when/if more of this stuff winds up before a judge.
Kairosfocus: Mr. Ramsland presents the following example of this data
– taken from “Dominion’s direct feed to news outlets” – in the table below.
Has anyone asked Dominion why the numbers appear that way? Probably not. So how do you know there isn’t a simple and innocent reason that the data formatting is done that way? You see decimals, you call foul. How come the networks didn’t call foul? How come none of the major news reporters didn’t call foul? Oh, that’s right, there are literally thousands upon thousands of people, Democrats and Republicans in on the plot. My bad.
Michigan State’s voting fact check page. I know, I know, why trust them, they’re in on it too. Thousands of people are in on it, maybe millions. Republicans and Democrats. All lying through their teeth because they hate Donald Trump.
https://www.michigan.gov/sos/0,4670,7-127-1633_100423_102534_102535—,00.html
U.S. Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) issued the following statement in support of the U.S. Supreme Court hearing an emergency appeal challenging the election results in Pennsylvania:
“Today, an emergency appeal was filed in the U.S. Supreme Court challenging the election results in Pennsylvania. This appeal raises serious legal issues, and I believe the Court should hear the case on an expedited basis.
“The Pennsylvania Constitution requires in-person voting, except in narrow and defined circumstances. Late last year, the Pennsylvania Legislature passed a law that purported to allow universal mail-in voting, notwithstanding the Pennsylvania Constitution’s express prohibition.
“This appeal argues that Pennsylvania cannot change the rules in the middle of the game. If Pennsylvania wants to change how voting occurs, the state must follow the law to do so.
“The illegality was compounded by a partisan Democrat Supreme Court in Pennsylvania, which has issued multiple decisions that reflect their political and ideological biases. Just over a month ago, Justice Alito, along with Justice Thomas and Justice Gorsuch, wrote-correctly, I believe-concerning the Pennsylvania court’s previous decision to count ballots received after Election Day, that ‘there is a strong likelihood that the State Supreme Court decision violates the Federal Constitution.’
“In the current appeal, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court dismissed the claim based on a legal doctrine called ‘laches,’ which essentially means the plaintiffs waited too long to bring the challenge. But, the plaintiffs reasonably argue that the Pennsylvania Supreme Court has not applied that doctrine consistently and so they cannot selectively enforce it now.
“Even more persuasively, the plaintiffs point out that the Pennsylvania Supreme Court has also held that plaintiffs don’t have standing to challenge an election law until after the election, meaning that the court effectively put them in a Catch-22: before the election, they lacked standing; after the election, they’ve delayed too long. The result of the court’s gamesmanship is that a facially unconstitutional election law can never be judicially challenged.
“Ordinarily, the U.S. Supreme Court would stay out of election disputes, especially concerning state law. But these are not ordinary times.
“As of today, according to Reuters/Ipsos polling, 39 percent of Americans believe that ‘the election was rigged.’ That is not healthy for our democracy. The bitter division and acrimony we see across the nation needs resolution. And I believe the U.S. Supreme Court has a responsibility to the American people to ensure that we are following the law and following the Constitution. Hearing this case-now, on an emergency expedited basis-would be an important step in helping rebuild confidence in the integrity of our democratic system.”
https://www.cruz.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=5482&oRef=mixi
JVL, I personally know that the facts thus far established directly contradict many of the claims in your cited propaganda piece for Mich. voting. i.e. dead voters,,, etc..
Why would you not pay attention to facts that are established??? You are a completely partisan hack is my guess.
My patience is thin with such antics.,,
Irony alert!
Bornagain77: JVL, I personally know that the facts thus far established directly contradict many of the claims in your cited propaganda piece for Mich. voting. i.e. dead voters,,, etc..
Why would you not pay attention to facts that are established??? You are a completely partisan hack is my guess.
Are you sure those are established facts? Could they not be misinterpretations or hearsay (there’s quite a bit of that in what I’ve seen) or simple mistakes?
When I see two sides both absolutely convinced they are correct then I figure we should all listen to both sides, ask lots of questions of everyone and try and get to the bottom of it. Since most of what is posted here comes from the pro-fraud side I figure it’s instructive to point out that t’other side are also making statements some of which say: we checked on some of that, it’s not true. To me that’s saying that all the facts are NOT established or examined. Remember how some of what has been observed was misinterpreted as something nefarious when it wasn’t.
It’s not my country, it’s not my vote. I could have voted but I decided NOT to try and impose my view on you guys. I’m happy to let y’all get on with it but it’s sad to see the country of my birth tear itself apart without first calming down and listening, gather all the evidence and data, and them make a call.
Don’t execute the prisoner unless you’re very, very, very sure they are guilty, if at all. You can’t rescind an execution.
No irony VL, you guys just ignore any evidence that contradicts your oft repeated claim of no evidence of widespread voter fraud. And then repeat the false claim, over and over, and over.
It is a pathetic tactic that I encounter all the time in my debates with Darwinists!
The claim of ‘no evidence’ is wearing very thin to the point of being insulting to any fair minded person.
As the article I cited yesterday stated (after citing twenty lines (facts) of evidence), “Don’t spit in my face and tell me it is raining”,,,
Of sobering, note as to how blatant ‘the steal’ actually was: ,,,The election ‘steal’ was, in many instances, as subtle as a mugging!
And again, in the hearing yesterday, the Mich. Democratic Senators offered ZERO witnesses of their own to counter these eye-witnesses, nor did they say any witnesses would be forthcoming in the future.
Simply crushing!
Of related note:, Michigan Senate to hear Gulliani this evening
BA, did you read the document Bob posted about an actual court case and what the judge said about the quality of the evidence presented by the challengers? So far, actual solid evidence presented to a court is almost non-existent. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to see countless allegations without evidence as more the work of “partisan hacks” those those who are skeptical of those allegations unless the actual evidence is presented and evaluated by the legal system.
Don’t tell me VL, let me guess, you still see no evidence for fraud do you???
One wonders if our interlocutors were as fastidious and critical in their assessment of the claims when the Dems pursued the “Russia Collusion” conspiracy theory for 3.5 years?
Still no one is even attempting to explain the enormous disparity in news media coverage.
If this was being handled by the media the same way they did that hoax, there would be non-stop coverage, pundits on every half-hour calling for full forensic audits and investigations into everyone and every company associated with these claims, pundits calling for election officials and governors to be arrested and prosecuted for “China Collusion,” etc.
If you cannot recognize the pack of dogs not barking right now, you’re either willfully blind to it or suffering from extreme cognitive dissonance.
Attn KF:
Bornagain77: And again, in the hearing yesterday, the Mich. Democratic Senators offered ZERO witnesses of their own to counter these eye-witnesses, nor did they say any witnesses would be forthcoming in the future.
I can’t speak for the Michigan Democrats nor do I know the legislative schedule and what has been planned. Perhaps they’d rather wait to present their evidence to an actual civil court? We don’t know.
I could counter with the fact that Uncle Rudy has NOT presented some of the affidavits as evidence in some of the cases he’s instigating. Why is that? Does that make sense? We don’t know.
Look, can’t we all just calm down and let people have their say and then decide? Do we need to make a call right now? Is letting Biden take the office while things are being reviewed so bad?
It’s not war level is it? I hope not.
William J Murray: Still no one is even attempting to explain the enormous disparity in news media coverage.
Some sources have axes to grind. What else is there to say?
If this was being handled by the media the same way they did that hoax, there would be non-stop coverage, pundits on every half-hour calling for full forensic audits and investigations into everyone and every company associated with these claims, pundits calling for election officials and governors to be arrested and prosecuted for “China Collusion,” etc.
Just my perspective, limited admittedly: I think the European press at least has accepted that Biden won the election and the rest is just conspiracy theory. Don’t shoot me, I’m just telling you how it seems to me living in the UK. Increasingly, the pro-fraud crowd is considered to be in denial. Bitch, moan and whine about that, fine. I’m just telling you what the perception is. But, I have to add, every time a judge in the US slaps down a Trump camp lawsuit they do report that. Maybe Europeans trust their judicial branch more that you do, again I’m just relaying things.
A good question being: do you trust your constitution or not?
JVL, we don’t have to ask Dominion (which has long been evasive and misleading . . . and did not take opportunity to answer questions from the PA legislators recently), it simply is the case that relevant votes are inherently integer; one man, one vote. Anything else is demonstrative that something was happening that should not have been happening; and the other thread gave context going back 20 years so, glitch cannot be claimed. . That is enough to indict the software. Multiply by the underlying TX tests, and the conclusions regarding vulnerabilities and things coming from testimony. The gadgetry is vulnerable, non-transparent and dubious, not fit for supposed purpose. KF
@kairosfocus:
> AC, see the oral testimony and corroborating testimony indicating (…)
I was talking specifically about the Waybackmachine-screenshot in the report. Nothing more. The oral testimony doesn’t help. We can look at the different years here: https://web.archive.org/web/20200801000000*/dominionvotingsystems.com
There’s a clear indication, that the site was not in use for several years and Dominion probably unregistered it at least two years ago. A history of all the whois-entries reaching back to 2011 might help to solve the mystery.
@JVL:
> Hundreds? Really? There would be loads of police and hospital and morgue and funeral homes records then.
I’ve never claimed, that hundreds were murdered. There were reports about women being murdered after they were raped (e.g.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Maria_Ladenburger).
BA writes, “Don’t tell me VL, let me guess, you still see no evidence for fraud do you???”
The Lou Dobbs show is not a court of law. If that person has really sent all that evidence to attorney generals et al, as he claims, then it ought to precipitate a court case where the evidence can be presented and evaluated. Just hearing about it on the Lou Dobbs show is not sufficient to consider it valid, I think.
Thanks for proving my point VL and JVL.
The live stream has started,,,
LIVE: Sidney Powell, Lin Wood attend ‘Stop the Steal’ rally in Georgia (Dec. 2) | NTD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8VIB_DxlrE
A group called “We the People” have published a petition that in part says the following.
Do you folks here (BA, KF, William, Sandy, Jerry, ET, and others), endorse this idea?
Scary times eh VL? It is as if the American people object very strenuously when their vote, i.e. their right to self govern,,, is stolen from them,,,,
Bet you wonder why so many Americans won’t just shut up and take the stealing of their votes as a normal way of life.,,,,
I bet you, like the Nazis and Russians did, severely underestimate the resolve of Americans to right that which is injust.
Comparing me to the Nazi’s, are you? Are you aware that there are many people, such as myself, that think that we also are “we the people”, and that the the ideas expressed in that petition are totally antithetical to many fundamental principles of our country.
F/N: John C Wright (a lawyer BTW) and commenters have their usual sobering thoughts. I, of course, would balance them by pointing to Ac 27. The US and so also the world, is now in an Ac 27 storm. In that context, we should ponder geostrategic issues as I noted on in OP, U/D4. The geopolitical considerations here, may also help, though I think things are a bit more complex, cf. here. KF
VL, for very good reason the US framers did not go for snap elections and force re-votes until the dominant power factions get what they want; what was finally used to wreck the Wiemar Republic. That is why there are several built-in backstops (the final being Congress voting by state delegations, 1 state, 1 vote); backstops that, though unpalatable are far preferable to sending the message that is now on the table to dozens of millions. Namely, that dominant factions of the power classes are perfectly willing to not only resist sound reforms of a long since substandard way of running elections — I keep saying, the system would fail a benchmark against how a run of the mill coop bank handles cash and accounts — but this year insisted on a destructively fraud-prone means to flood targeted pivotal points with bogus, no chain of control, false mail-in ballots. This over-reach may well put in as apparent . . . arguably, mirage . . . victor the man with an albatross around his neck and an extremely radical and unpopular running mate. But, it will not overwhelm the force of the grim resolve of dozens of millions that they will not tolerate such a cynical nomenklatura of oligarchs who would turn every election going forward into another mirage of popular support backed by convenient media censorship, singing off the same hymn sheets and SA-like thugs in the streets and election centres. My thought is that the 1960 option of just quietly take the cheat is off the table because of the not so hidden agenda at work. Something like 1876 is feasible, but if such is not done, hang on for a shift from bleeding Kansas to full blown civil conflict. That is the magnitude of the folly of the current power classes. KF
PS, now you begin to know how it feels to be routinely slandered as a nazi.
AndyClue: I’ve never claimed, that hundreds were murdered.
Comment 88 by AndyClue, this thread:
The Syrians Merkel imported have been raping and in part murdering hundreds of young German women.
Kairosfocus: JVL, we don’t have to ask Dominion (which has long been evasive and misleading
That’s right, we don’t have to listen to the accused to find out their side of the story.
Well done. It’s always easier if you bypass the rules of law.
VL states “the ideas expressed in that petition are totally antithetical to many fundamental principles of our country.”
Really????
Hmmm,,, I seem to recall this founding principle in the Declaration of Independence,,,, “That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, ”
That principle comes right after this “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”,,,
Tell me the truth VL, do you believe our rights are derived from men are do you believe that our rights are derived from God?
If you do not believe that our rights are derived from God, but are derived from men, then, contrary to what you claim, you do not really believe in the fundamental principle that this country is and was built upon.
And if men, in their lust for power, steal our God given right, steal an American’s God given right, to vote, i.e. to self govern,,,,, if men, in their lust for power, and by widespread voter fraud, abuse that God given right,,,, then, as the Declaration of Independence itself says, “it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government,”,,,
Institute a new government that is constitutionally legitimate, and that was not ‘stolen’ from ‘we the people’ by fraudulent means,,,, by fraudulent means that have violently raped our sacred God given right to vote in free and fair elections.
H’mm, I just saw the rally is up. Open accusations of bribery in GA and sue me if you want — as in I get discovery.
VL, I pointed to the rules in the US Constitution for disputed elections. As for proof of willful wrongdoing, that has been established on public facts that for weeks you have never substantially addressed, the failed moral duty challenge constituting “a long train of abuses and usurpations”:
KF
PS: Ms Powell just gave more background to the Venezuela whistleblower. The trick is to allocate votes to targetted bins (adjudication files) then dump undesired votes and substitute surges that one desires. The synchronised count stop was identified as a signature of such a tactic. Of course, software readily identifies number of files in a folder, and can readily substitute an equivalent number. Of course, log files in these systems were highlighted as modifiable. Where, by design, already cast ballots cannot be traced to individual voters. That sounds like another technique that is feasible once effective scrutineering is suppressed. The Venezuela whistleblower was present when it or the like was done in Venezuela. So the pivotal issue is, WHERE WERE THE SCRUTINEERS GUARANTEEING SOUND CHAIN OF CUSTODY.
JVL, your twisting of a remark on a mathematically demonstrated point is stunning:
JVL, 244: >>That’s right, we don’t have to listen to the accused to find out their side of the story. Well done. It’s always easier if you bypass the rules of law.>>
Lessee, why is it that I said what I said? Oh, maybe because we antecedently know one man makes one vote so legitimate vote totals MUST be only integer values. Even if added up using floating point numbers, the fractional parts will always be point-zero-zero-zero . . .
Those are self evident consequences of closure of integers under scrutineered, transparently carried out addition (and rarely, even more closely supervised subtraction). But, just what violation of the rule of law did we see instead?
Oh, this — which you just twisted into pretzels to falsely accuse me of lawlessness:
Do tell us, JVL, just what are 1925865.66 votes for Mr Trump and 1615707.52 for Mr Biden in MI at timestamp 2020-11-04T06:54:48Z? What can such ever mean, when legitimate votes MUST be whole numbers?
It’s not like this did not come up before only to be met with skeptical talking points, including yours.
I repeat, that cannot be explained away legitimately; by the force of the built in, world framing structure of reality that establishes whole numbers.
Yes, I do hope to see Dominion answering to a panel with right of reply, but that has utterly nothing to do with mathematical certainty.
You owe an apology to the readers for an outrageous, ad hominem laced strawman attack.
KF
Statement by Donald J. Trump, The President of the United States
https://www.facebook.com/DonaldTrump/videos/376615900112093
AP news story about AG Barr was fake news.
Lol, the data that is being passed around as direct from Dominion machines (which are not used in many counties, so how they’d have the whole state’s totals I’m not sure) is actually just the dataset underlying the NYT website. You cans ee this for yourself, here is the data for MI
https://static01.nyt.com/elections-assets/2020/data/api/2020-11-03/state-page/michigan.json
Now, ctrl-f and find the time-stamp you go these numbers from (2020-11-04T06:54:48Z ). You’ll see the time stamp include trump the same vote proportions ( .534 and Biden .448 in this case) for everytime stamp you posted, along with a total number of votes for that time (3606490 for this first one). What’s .534 * 3606490? Or .448 * 3606490
So, do answer your question. You get .52 of a vote when you rely on values reported to one-tenth of a percent (reasonable for data underlying a visualization) to calculate the total for subsets of millions of votes.
Making these kinds of mountains out of silly little molehills sort of undermines these affidavits, doesn’t it?
Live feed scheduled to begin in 20 minutes<
LIVE: Trump lawyer Giuliani testifies at Michigan election hearing (Dec. 2) | Epoch Timeshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKqnnShYj_g
Jerry, what AP story about Barr?
re 251 Orthomyxo: Good and obvious point.
This one
https://apnews.com/article/barr-no-widespread-election-fraud-b1f1488796c9a98c4b1a9061a6c7f49d
Following headline, opening paragraph and impression of story is fake. Just another example of fake news that gets repeated by prominent media. Which is why no one should trust anything AP prints. They are not an honest news service.
Barr has said they have hardly finished their investigation.
According to the article, Barr said, “but “to date, we have not seen fraud on a scale that could have effected a different outcome in the election.”
Is it on the record that he actually said that, or are you saying that quote is fake?
No but it is a meaningless quote. He has seen fraud. But the investigation has just begun. And the DOJ investigation is not the main one at the moment. Their investigation would take months and that is irrelevant at moment.
Then was the article fake news, or did it just not address other issues that you think are more relevant?
In what way was the article fake?
I gave you two, the headline and opening paragraph for starters and then leaving tons of things out and not framing the story truthfully. Just because a meaningless accurate statement was made does not make it a true story.
It’s a great example of fake news.
Viola Lee/238
To me that reads as perilously close to fomenting insurrection.
If Trump and his supporters here and elsewhere really want to start a civil war then this is the way to go.
Giuliani hearing:
Witness,,, Indian born, mother of 3,,, ‘head engineer’ for city,, in election work she started sorting mail in 3rd week of Sept.,,, was asked to ‘backdate’ ballots,,, more than one supervisor told them to ‘backdate’ ballots,,, 80 workers were told to ‘backdate’,,,, during her 10 days there at least 100,000 ballots were ‘backdated’,,, transferred at the beginning of OCT. to polling station,, witnessed supervisor coaching people to vote for Biden,,, was told to stop asking for ID by supervisor, told to ‘let the people vote’,,, 32,500 ballots were estimated to be double votes,,, was told to ‘skip’ verification steps on ballots at TCF center,,, did not know where the ballots were coming from,,, told to accept invalid ballots,,, told by director of TCF to let two completely different signatures count as a valid vote,,, said that they treated her like a criminal for refusing to validate ballots that were clearly invalid,,, said “I couldn’t believe it” as to the level of dishonesty that she witnessed at TCF,,, everything at ‘the podium’ was ‘not right’,,, said she was ‘shocked’ at the level of dishonesty she witnessed when she worked at the election,,,
2nd witness: contracted Dominion IT worker, TCF, I observed numerous workers running batches of ballots numerous times,,, 9 to 10 times,, she witnessed numerous runs of the same ballots ‘thousands of times’ from the 22 to 24 tabulating machines on the floor,,, at TCF center from 27 hours,,, called FBI, FBI never called back,,,
3rd witness corroborated previous witness that there were numerous runs of ballots,,, severe harassment of GOP workers, only job of Democratic challengers was not to challenge ballots but was to harass GOP challengers,,,
4th witness,,, was excellent, witnessed ‘ballot dump’ in the middle of the night, i.e. 50,000 ballots brought in the back door late in the night, 4:00 AM, on Nov. 4,,, and very many other instances of overt fraud,,,
Ret Col. Phil Waldren up now, excellent testimony on data ‘anomalies’
I haven’t seen this anywhere but here. I check in on most of the reputable conservative sites. It shows up on search engines though. It is probably very small.
My guess is that if the Biden administration moves too aggressively to restrict rights, there will be reactions such as the sanctuary cities were by Democrats protecting illegal aliens.
It’s not quite clear if they could do much even if they win the two Georgia senators since Manchin has said he will not vote for anything radical.
Here is a list of the post-election lawsuits including which have been dismissed, dropped or ongoing. There are more ongoing than I thought.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-election_lawsuits_related_to_the_2020_United_States_presidential_election
From the section: Donald J. Trump for President v. Hobbs
Gosh, the Trumpsters stated that some of their affidavits in Arizona were spam or FALSE!
From the section Donald J. Trump for President v. Benson (Michigan State Court)
From the section Stoddard v. City Election Comm’n of the City of Detroit
From the section Donald J. Trump for President v. Montgomery Cty. Bd. of Elections
From the section: Donald J. Trump for President v. Philadelphia Cty. Bd. of Elections
From the section Donald J. Trump for President v. Bucks Cty. Bd. of Elections
There’s more of course.
Ortho,
Thanks for your comment. You do indeed show a first level explanation for how the reported fractions were generated on given data.
However, I must repeat: a vote is an inherent integral number. That is the baseline data, and percentages and calculations on same are inherently not the same thing. They just aren’t, and to conflate the two is hugely problematic. Similarly, information — votes — that are inherently integer should be understood, stored, processed [valid operations: ADD, for error correction, SUBTRACT . . . both under scrutiny] and reported as what they are, integers; derivative floating point variables should be anchored to that. This is a core truth and integrity issue, but it is likely to be overlooked or dismissed today; as was seen in the other thread.
The mindset that moves away from that, while using non-transparent software is the fundamental problem. That you (and doubtless many others) see this as a mole-hill is part of the problem, not the solution.
Further, let us look at U/D 24 and 25 to the earlier OP. By now you know Diebold [went to ES&S then was acquired by Dominion) and others are DNA core in a network of licensing of software, so the leaked development emails are part of the relevant background.
You will see how vote rounding and summing of fractional values were on the table c. 2001, with need to round 3 vs 2 places. We are again seeing the issue, in DNA code for this software, with the issue being addition of votes. Had votes been properly encapsulated as integers, that would not come up, there would be no issue of injecting ranked choice votes or setting fraction ratios and generating products to report as these are the votes. No, they ain’t.
The solution is clear. Until we have open source code and transparent box machines, votes need to be cast on validated paper ballots by validated voters under scrutineer control. Then, under similar control, they need to be hand counted at precinct level, out loud, with video logging. The ballots should be held at that level and transported for storage, likewise under scrutiny.
Then, signed off sums can go to tabulating centres and be stored based on clear, chain of custody controlled record.
Treated, as integers.
Vote totals can be added up and communicated as integers.
Processing for statistics, visualisation, plotting pi charts etc can use derivative variables which can be double precision floating point values, but must have chain of controlled custody to the encapsulated safeguarded integer values. These must never be treated as the votes, just calculations on the votes.
As a benchmark, would you consider it appropriate to use rounded numbers and graphs with percent calculations to handle your cash or account or atm card? Would such be GAAP-compatible for accounts? And, would absence of indelible paper trails and computer transaction logs be acceptable?
Why are accounts of a business regularly audited, and why do auditors insist on physical inspection of items, stocks in stores, transaction documents etc?
Why is it that they treat a failed control point check as tip of the iceberg, demanding to dig deeper?
Do you not see that the stream of reported values is a direct analogue to such a flag-trip auditing event?
Do you not see that it is a sign of deeper, more fundamental trouble that data like this is being reported as votes? No, they are not, they are calculated values, not observed values duly and solemnly reported.
Do you not see that such a mindset is a sign of an underlying attitude?
Do you see why I have kept on noting that the US election system would fail a benchmarking exercise against how a run of the mill coop bank handles cash and accounts?
So, thank you for reporting the immediate source of fractions. However, that in itself simply trips flags and marks the tip of an iceberg.
Where: ’twas a dark, moonless, foggy, berg-y night, and the good ship Titanic was running late. Speed up, was the cry.
(Of course, I take literary licence and I am extending Plato’s Socrates in his analogy of the Ship of State; with of course a nod to the Ac 27 incident.)
KF
Viola Lee said:
Which ideas are antithetical to which fundamental principles? Unless you can answer that, this is nothing but rhetoric.
VL, let me adapt an old Jewish mom’s saying: a strategic half-truth is a whole lie. Where, to lie is to speak with disregard to truth in hope of profiting from what has been said or suggested being taken as true. Misleading framing of a narrative fits in here. KF
WJM,
there is of course a pair of foundational documents, with a third exchange of arguments (there were also anti-federalist papers, as my Penguin copy includes). The first, DoI, Jul 4, 1776, is in key parts a natural law argument, implying universality. A point understood at the time, I gather even in Japan there were people writing around it.
(You know that I take Cicero’s summary of then received wisdom c 50 BC as key: law is highest reason applied to governing conduct in community on principles of justice and good order. Justice, being the due balance of rights, freedoms and responsibilities/duties.)
Let us ponder:
Where, in the 12th year of Independence, on a second attempt, the Constitution intended to deliver on new govt has this classic, grand statement structure:
Note that term, “blessings of liberty,” a double covenantal, nation and government under God framework that — like the difference between integer values and rational numbers aka floating point — is being lost sight of. Let me give covenantal context based on two pivotal calls to national prayer made by the Congress [yes, the Congress], bracketing the Declaration:
I argue that the May 1776 call was an act of national covenant under God, the spiritual foundation event. The context of blessings of liberty is clear. And, not only reflecting ethical theism but the Christian faith. In which context acknowledging Jesus Christ as LIVING LORD (1787th year) is not to be dismissed as mere form, given the further light of what blessings are in mind, in context.
So, the relevant founding principles and context of thought are quite clear. Going further, let us note how Blackstone summed up about 20 years before the Constitution was ratified, noting this book’s role as key legal textbook:
So, the principles in question are or at least should be, no mystery.
There is a pernicious, nihilism-prone reconception of law afoot, that it is in effect what those who control a state’s legal presses issue without regard to highest reason applied to justice and good order. The consequences turn reformation into a naked power struggle, inviting 4g civil war, as we see going on. The implicit, might and/or manipulation make right consequences are absurdly manifest.
KF
Attn KF, video clip of Ret Col. Phil Waldren from his testimony last night,,
Of Note: According to the legislators themselves, Dominion has simply refused to show up and testify to the Michigan legislature despite numerous requests for them to do so. They have also simply refused to allow their software to be examined. ,,, Why? What are they hiding? and Why are they hiding?
Moreover,, since it is of paramount public interest and public importance, they should be compelled to participate and also to hand over all relevant data that needs to be examined. Their refusal to do so is simply unacceptable.
VL,
You have tried to fasten the ideas of the group We The People on us, inserting it into the discussion. For record, I will comment on points:
>>When the legislators, courts and/or Congress fail to do their duty under the 12th Amendment,>>
Amendment, created after messed up elections in 1800 and 1824. This sets out procedures:
This points to an array of backstops if an election becomes tainted or deadlocked.
>> you must be ready Mr. President to immediately declare a limited form of Martial Law,>>
Insurrection act, which may be necessary in case of massive breakdown.
>> and temporarily suspend the Constitution and civilian control of these federal elections,>>
Nope! The backstops are more than adequate. Spoil the elections and face house of reps. Failing that, face President PENCE.
>> for the sole purpose of having the military oversee a national re-vote.>>
The concern is valid, the solution, fatally flawed. There are backstops in the law, they are unpalatable but those whose mischief led there are to blame.
>>A vote that assures a fair election in every jurisdiction and reflects the true will of the people.>>
The true will of the people is the Constitution, which has clearly established backups.
>> Federal candidates only. >>
The taint is liable to be general.
>>Paper ballots. No computers.>>
Very understandable.
>> Hand-counted with both parties watching every vote. Only registered voters.>>
Concern to restore integrity.
>> Photo ID to prove residence.>>
Understandable concern, but people move about so rapidly that this fails. Current utility bill is the banking standard.
>>Conducted safely with everyone wearing masks and six feet apart, just like we did in Ohio.>>
A concern, but incompatible with scrutiny of documents and reading of signatures etc. Maybe vid feeds and screens?
>>Only then can the winning candidate be accepted as legitimate by a true majority of We the People who must give our consent to be justly governed!>>
The established will is the Constitution, which uses backstops not re-votes. For excellent reason.
>>Unfortunately we are at a point where we can only trust our military to do this>>
Are you double-plus sure?
>> because our corrupt political class and courts have proven their inability to act fairly and within the law.>>
The fair comment is legitimate, however the suggested solution ignores constitutional backstops.
KF
BA77, muy interesante. My concern that votes are integers not rationals is underscored. The underlying at minimum negligent mentality on such a crucial matter that can easily spiral down into blood, is telling. KF
Here is another video clip from last night’s testimony that clearly indicates that something was seriously amiss in MIchigan:
Of related note to Dominion,,,
Why in blue blazes would ‘election officials’ dare join Dominion in stonewalling examination of its machines and software? Something smells very fishy.
Lack of transparency is certainly not helping their situation with the public right now,,,,
Giuliani hearing in MI https://www.facebook.com/MichiganHouseRepublicans/videos/377844710153233/
Attn KF:
Also of note:
President Trump could have had the Attorney General draw up a long list of charges against several high ranking members of many state governments. The moments states shut down businesses and governors started ruling by dictate, making them dictators, was the moment those states became states in rebellion. Both the Whiskey Rebellion and rebellion of states, who chose violence in place of peaceful separation, show that no Congressional consent is needed for any president to declare states in rebellion.
He should target the three worse states as a strong message to the other governors who continue to ignore the US Constitution, California, New York and Ohio; Pennsylvania could easily be added to the list. Among the charges, usurpation of Congress. Only Congress can do anything to impact interstate commerce according to the Commerce Clause. Governors, Lt. Governors, Attorney Generals, unelected bureaucrats ruling in the name of the governors should be included in the charges, which should include committing acts of rebellion.
No state can have representation in Congress, either house, if they are in a state of rebellion. Their members of Congress and the Senate should be removed, by force if necessary. No state in rebellion can have a single delegate vote for President.
Right now, there are governors who ignore court orders, including federal, who do not believe the laws apply to them. They believe they can do as they wish under the guise of public health. The Supremacy Clause was created to prevent any governor from being a dictator, since there is no exception to the Supremacy Clause.
Georgia election officials were worried that preserving the election machines would stop election run-offs that are going on this week. Their argument about this, from Sunday evening, is here. The plaintiffs appealed and told the judge the appeal wasn’t in his juristriction. So the judge shrugged, and agreed with them. And stopped the schedule he had set in motion. Once the expedited appeal is heard, which will be next wee, the whole thing gets kicked back to the judge, who will work out a new timetable. Pretty soon the whole thing will be moot, because the electors will have voted.
Basically, all this appeal did was delay these time-critical proceedings by about a week.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disputes_surrounding_the_2020_United_States_presidential_election_results
In September 2019, a document was published that details the 2020 election – so far – to a frightening precision.
( https://twitter.com/CodeMonkeyZ/status/1334463159952756736 )
Sandy: In September 2019, a document was published that details the 2020 election – so far – to a frightening precision.
Well, a huge conspiracy like that takes time to plan: you gotta make the plan, get the money to pay people off, find the right people to do the dirty work, etc, etc, etc.
Bob, for crying out loud, it is the Dominion machines, and more specifically their software, that is, in large measure, what is in question in this election. ,,, Dominion has simply stonewalled access to its machines, and more specifically to its software, by forensics experts. So for them to say that they must reuse the machines and the software in question will only potentially destroy important information and compound the problem,,, This is unacceptable! Immediate access must be granted!
To repeat the testimony from last night,,, video clip of Ret Col. Phil Waldren from his testimony last night,,
Of Note: According to the Mich. legislators themselves, Dominion has simply refused to show up and testify to the Michigan legislature despite numerous requests for them to do so. They have also simply refused to allow their software to be examined. ,,, Why? What are they hiding? and Why are they themselves hiding from the legislators?
Moreover,, since it is of paramount public interest and public importance, they should be compelled to participate and also to hand over all relevant data that needs to be examined. Their refusal to do so is simply unacceptable.
We have more than enough warrant to demand a full forensic examination of all machines and software in question so as to ascertain exactly what happened,,,
As I heard one legislator in AZ say (paraphrase), “math landed us on the moon, math (when properly used) does not lie to us, and the math itself is what is telling us that something very fishy was up!”
For instance,,,
The DoJ is NOT the investigating party. So if they aren’t investigating then of course they won’t see any evidence until it is brought to them by the investigating party.
Yes JVL. The democrats had FOUR years to plan for this. They have plenty of big money donors to pay for it. And they have plenty of highly motivated people to make it happen.
You might as well hear it now. A conservative tells how the election played out. An updated form of ballot harvesting.
https://pjmedia.com/jchristianadams/2020/12/02/the-real-kraken-what-really-happened-to-donald-trump-in-the-2020-election-n1185494
My guess is that a large number of illegal votes were in this ballot harvesting. Why all the bullying brutish behavior? They probably didn’t know if they had enough legal votes so had to ensure they did with their tactics once they knew how many they needed.
Bornagain77: Bob, for crying out loud, it is the Dominion machines, and more specifically their software, that is, in large measure, what is in question in this election. Something Dominion has stonewalled access to to forensics experts. So to reuse the machines and the software in question will only compound the problem.
A YouTuber that Kairosfocus flagged up show fractional votes initially SAID it was Dominion feeds from Philadelphia but Dominion wasn’t in Philadelphia. Turned out to be ES&S instead. So which is it?
And did anyone ever figure out IF a server got served in Germany and IF there’s was a gunfight?
I don’t see any problem with the petition Viola posted in 238. It is what should have happened in the first place.
The only people who would have a problem with it are democrats. They only want the military to enforce their draconian lockdowns.
BO’H, ES&S as was notified to you when you previously raised this, ES&S is a subsidiary of Dominion. KF
F/N: On first glance the paper is an academic scenario analysis. KF
ba77 @ 279 –
Well, perhaps Powell et al. shouldn’t try to slow this down, then. The stay on wiping the machines is currently in operation, but can only last 10 days. I can’t see how delaying anything from happening for a week helps.
Also, Dominion had nothing to do in these proceedings. They aren’ t a party to them, and they don’t hold the machines in question. So why are you so upset at them?
Kairosfocus: ES&S as was notified to you when you previously raised this, ES&S is a subsidiary of Dominion.
That is just not true!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Election_Systems_%26_Software
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_Voting_Systems
Dominion bought PES from ES&S but to say ES&S is a subsidiary of Dominion is false. Demonstrably so.
Somewhere back there, in respect to the We the Peple petition, WJM wrote, “Which ideas are antithetical to which fundamental principles? Unless you can answer that, this is nothing but rhetoric.”
Declaring martial law and suspending the Constitution are antithetical to the basic principle that we are committed to the Constitution and the underlying legal structure of the the three branches of government, decades of legal decisions, etc.
Also, KF, I did not try to “fasten” the We the People petition on this group: I just asked if various people agreed with it. ET thinks it’s a good idea. WJM responded but didn’t say what he thought. You offered some objections, which I was glad to see.
“So why are you so upset at them?”
Well I don’t know for sure Bob, perhaps it could be because they are directly implicated in the biggest voter fraud in American history? Pulling the trigger on the murder weapon as it were,,,
But hey, I could be wrong on that guess,,, what’s your guess as to why so many people are upset with Dominion?
🙂
ET: Yes JVL. The democrats had FOUR years to plan for this. They have plenty of big money donors to pay for it. And they have plenty of highly motivated people to make it happen.
I wonder how much it all cost then? Must be millions upon millions of dollars considering how many people must be involved and to make sure they get paid enough to keep their mouths shut! Maybe billons of dollars. Wow. Just so they can bring back Obama Care and try to get back on the climate control treaty? You’d think someone on Trump’s team (aside from the ones like Powell who think it was THE COMMUNISTS) would be trying to follow the money. Should be easy for someone in the Justice Department.
Look JVL, you don’t know anything about investigating. All you are doing is making up {SNIP!], flinging it against the wall to see what sticks.
Good luck with that
ET: All you are doing is making up [SNIP], flinging it against the wall to see what sticks.
Did you see that bit where in one court case the Trump legal team admitted some of the affidavits were ‘spam’ and/or false! Oooops!!
Lots of court cases have been voluntarily dismissed by the plaintiffs.
In Georgia: Brooks v. Mahoney
Lack of evidence perhaps?
Also in Georgia: In Re: Enforcement of Election Laws and Securing Ballots Cast or Received after 7:00pm on November 3, 2020
Oh dear, no evidence. What a shame. I wonder who’s paying for all this dismissed court time? The taxpayers I guess.
Pearson v. Kemp
So, that one might actually get a real resolution soon.
Wood v. Raffensperger
Gee, no standing. You’d think any decent lawyer would have known that ahead of time. Oh well. Also, note that the judge completely disagrees with the Trumpster who thinks you have to throw out the election to restore faith in the process.
In Michigan: Bally v. Whitmer
Fascinating that in many cases it’s not the courts but the plaintiffs voluntarily dismissing their cases. I wonder why?
Costantino v. Detroit
Yeah well if you can’t be bothered to show up and learn the procedures then . . .
Donald J. Trump for President v. Benson (Michigan State Court)
Wow, some of these affidavits do sound a bit . . . lacking in details.
Johnson v. Benson
Again, the plaintiffs voluntarily dismissed the case. Makes you think doesn’t it?
It looks like a fringe group that will get little traction. I offered up what may be a more likely scenario but that is speculative too.
There is a lot of {SNIP] off people because they believe, with good reason, that the election was stolen (about half.) That is not a healthy situation for the country for survival. My guess is that about 65% of the population agree with the basic principles of the country but for various reasons many vote for the party that wants to subjugate the others because of ignorance. Another 20% are probably clueless. So it is about 15% that are driving the problems in the country. In this 15% are the financial and intellectual elites. But they control academia, popular entertainment, the press and social media.
I wrote over 8 years ago that the country was on its way to dissolution because of the lack of a common culture. It was just what the end game would be and it would take about 15-20 years. The virus and this election may accelerate it. The question is will the small percentage that votes with the Democrats and wants the basic ideals of the US allow the country to dissolve?
The world will not be a stable place if the US breaks up. But in the short run many outside the US are getting a dopamine rush as they give the middle finger to the US. But in reality their continued existence depends on a strong US.
the live feed just started,
LIVE: Georgia Senate Committees Hold Hearings on Election Issues (Dec. 3) | NTD 9:30 a.m.ET and 1:00 p.m ET
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ur4vl5UTN8g
ba77 @ 290 – I was asking in the context of a lawsuit that Dominion aren’t involved in. They are not plaintiffs, they are not defendants, they haven’t submitted any affidavits or an amicus curiae. The specific TRO was over inspection of machines that are held by the counties that ran the voting. So why get upset at Dominion when they aren’t (yet) involved?
You might do better to be upset with Sidney Powell who is making such a mess of her suits that her whole career is going to need a dry cleaner by the end of this.
Whatever Bob, Dominion still has refused to show up to the numerous different legislatures that have asked them to show up and answer questions.
For instance,,, what did Eric Coomer mean when he said this:
And why did they, Dominion, refuse to show up to a hearing in PA when they found out that the PA legislature had been informed about Eric Coomer?
Dominion simply has too much to answer for.
I certainly don’t think that it reflects on you to try to be an apologist for Dominion’s stonewalling,,,, i.e. Transparency is paramount and, if you, as a left winger, truly believed the election was fair, then you should be at the forefront in demanding transparency so that those on the right who have questions will be satisfied that the election was truly fair,,, As it is now, and as far as I can see, the claims of widespread voter fraud are 100% legit,,, again as far as I can tell from my nosebleed seating section,,,,
More from Michigan:
Stoddard v. City Election Comm’n of the City of Detroit
Gosh, I do hate it when that happens.
In Nevada:
Becker v. Cannizzaro
The following day? WTF was that about then?
Stokke v. Cegavske
Way to waste the courts’ time eh? Again, dropped by the plaintiffs.
It goes on and on and on. Cases dropped by the plaintiffs, basic legal checks not done, affidavits not being specific or credible.
Jerry writes, “It looks like a fringe group that will get little traction.”
Except it’s been endorsed by Gen Flynn.
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2020/12/02/calls-for-martial-law-and-us-military-oversight-of-new-presidential-elections-draws-criticism/
Jerry: The world will not be a stable place if the US breaks up. But in the short run many outside the US are getting a dopamine rush as they give the middle finger to the US. But in reality their continued existence depends on a strong US.
This ain’t WWII pal, this time all of Europe is on the same side.
Keep annoying foreign governments by reneging on treaties and shouting AMERICA FIRST and see where that gets you in a few more years.
JVL @ 298 –
It’s fun following lawtwitter at the moment. One of the “basic legal checks” Powell managed to avoid doing was whether she had filled in a form before submitting it. That was after the judge had already torn several strips off the plaintiff’s lawyers for making an utter mess of their filings.
Viola @ 299 –
I’m sorry, I don’t see how this negates Jerry’s point.
You’re right, Bob, Flynn is part of “a fringe group that will get little traction.” As is Powell, Wood, Dobbs, Guiliani, Ellis … The list goes on (but not to infinity!)
Viola Lee: but not to infinity!
Oh god, don’t bring that up again, we’ll be catapulting into the transfinites in a few minutes. Maybe we should have a Hyper-real, commutative, transfinite weighted voting scheme.
Giuliani Witness 1 yesterday evening: if you train and supervise civil servants in dubious behaviour, you invite systematic, entrenched corruption.
ET, language, broken window theory. KF
Jerry, language. KF
JVL, open your ears and eyes to what is going on. There may be problems, yes but there is a serious, longstanding, recently much worsened problem. One that is potentially existential. KF
JVL at 303 🙂
JVL, all of Europe including Russia? KF
BO’H, there may be differing views on ES&S, however essentially all of them share key software elements. I would toss the gadgetry and clean house on Election offices. Scrutineering and procedures require a big fix. Unfortunately, the integrity of the system cannot rise above the level of the people involved. Big problem, and one pointing to terrible breakdowns and chaos. KF
If you can’t validate a given vote, it’s invalid by definition
JVL, when you keep on pushing a matter like that, drumbeat style, it leads to a tainting effect. Many ruthless agit prop operators exploit it. I took time to respond point by point to clear up the matter, boom you want to raise another tied talking point. After a time that suggests an ad hominem. Further to this, Gen Flynn, if he endorsed is wrong, most of us have catch-up to do to learn Constitution, history and issues. KF
As Scott Adams said yesterday, if you can’t audit a given vote (chain of evidence), how do you know that a valid election occurred?
If there is motive, means, and opportunity for a given crime that has a low cost/benefit ratio, what can you expect? Especially when “Orange Man, Literally Hitler”. Etc. Etc. (Haha.)
3.5 years of Russia, Russia, Russia, and all of a sudden the commucrats are not interested in any investigations.
Yeah. Think about it.
JVL & VL, the mathematical issue on the table is that votes are inherently integer and bringing in rationals opens up all sorts of needless trouble. Your dislike for R* has nothing to do with it. KF
VL, dozens of millions backied by substantial evidence that something is deeply wrong is not a readily dismissed fringe. Stereotyping, belittling, demonising as the despised other will send the confirmation to what is on the table. As OP shows, the marxist agitators who have been pushing a colour revolution are taking victory laps — already a wake-up call. Destructive riots are part of that push, they are not harmless protests. The failed moral duty challenge on election integrity implies: accept a spoiled election, take unpalatable backstops now or else send the message to dozens of millions that 2016 was the last reasonably fair American election and going forward the new oligarchs have a nihilistic agenda. Including, “denazification” and obvious show trials targetting those who frustrated them in that year. The 4G civil war the radicals fomented and which has been simmering for several years, will explode on that scenario. It is time to wake up and smell the smoke. KF
Kairosfocus: JVL, open your ears and eyes to what is going on. There may be problems, yes but there is a serious, longstanding, recently much worsened problem. One that is potentially existential. KF
The question we are dealing with RIGHT NOW is: was there widespread and systemic voter fraud sponsored by (insert agency of choice here) that changed the outcome of the 2020 US Presidential election.
So far all the US and state level agencies, including Trump buddy Attorney General Barr, have said no, there was not significant levels of fraud, nothing that would change the outcome of the election.
Dominion Voting Systems has specifically denied many of the accusations levelled at them including that their systems ‘use’ fractional voting. I suspect this will be established sometime soon but, at the moment, Dominion has not actually been accused of anything in any on going court case. Sidney Powell talks a lot but she did not name Dominion. That is a fact.
Many, many court case have been voluntarily dismissed BY THE PLAINTIFSS, or tossed out by the judges in question, some of whom are Trump appointees. The reasons vary from plaintiffs having no standing (an elementary mistake) to the affidavits containing no substantial information regarding wrongdoing. Some cases are continuing and some of them will be resolved soon, hopefully.
There is simply no real evidence at all for some of the bizarre and widespread rumours such as: voting data was transferred to a Dominion server in Germany and a server in Germany was seized in a gunfight. IF Dominion was going to upload data to the cloud, manipulate it and then download it to the local pieces of equipment why would they go through a server in Germany? Does that make any kind of sense at all? No. It’s rubbish. And, again, the systems used in the local voting centres are OWNED by the local authorities or the state. Dominion SOLD them. They did NOT update the software at the last minute. They cannot access the data. They systems are auditable. They have been checked by agencies of the US government. There just isn’t anything there to worry about. It’s all just made up.
Time and time again when specific incidents have been examined they have turned out to be hearsay or, in some cases, people not understanding the rules and regs for their local voting processing centre. “Oooo, I was told this . . . no, I don’t know who told me or when it was.” Even the Trumpsters have had to admit that their observers WERE allowed into a centre which the POTUS specifically said they were not allowed into. He doesn’t even know (or remember) what his own legal team has accepted.
You may feel that there is a longstanding and significant cancer at the heart of the US election system. You may want the whole thing reviewed and overhauled. Fine, those of you with standing (i.e. NOT Kairosfocus) can push for those things, LEGALLY. You won’t save the system by breaking it.
If those of you with standing really, really want to continue to spend time and effort and money on this conspiracy theory then that’s your call. But remember: the Trumpsters are suggesting the POTUS declare martial law over this. That view has been supported by several prominent fraud promoters. Is that really what you want? One of the greatest representative democracies in the world being ruled by a trumped up reality TV star with a string of failed ventures and sexual harassment cases following him like a pack of wolves? Really? Do you want to live under Trumpster martial law?
JVL & VL, the mathematical issue on the table is that votes are inherently integer and bringing in rationals opens up all sorts of needless trouble. Your dislike for R* has nothing to do with it. KF
hahahahahahahahahaahah. My dislike of R*?
Some people have claimed that voting data was non-integer. Dominion has denied that. Why don’t you wait until that matter is resolved before you keep banging on the same drum over and over and over again.
Re 314. KF, do you even have a sense of humor?
JVL & Viola, don’t poke the bear. KF
JVL & VL et al, again, don’t poke the bear. KF
JVL & VL et al, a third time — don’t poke the bear. KF
I don’t know what you mean. If it is p***** off, change it to po’d. You have the ability to do that as administrator.
I bet the entire military force of the EU plus the UK would be backed up to a Dunkirk in a matter of weeks if Russia decides to invade and the US was not available. Similarly for East Asia if the Chinese decided to move militarily.
Jerry – you might be right about if Russia invades. On the other hand, they might come to a halt as their vehicles fall apart.
They may just commandeer all the busses and military vehicles left behind by the retreating military. Or maybe they could get their WWII tanks out of the museums. They made it to Berlin. There they could gets lots of Volkswagens.
Not all of Europe is anti Trump. I don’t believe the Poles are. And didn’t they just propose to name a lake in the Balkans after him?
A teeet from Ireland
I wonder how many in Europe feel the same way.
I interpret this as a message of support for the election process being upheld, and Biden taking over as president. YMMV.
No JVL, it does NOT have to be widespread voter fraud. I am OK with limiting to 8- 12% of the States.
Ret. Col Waldren is up now
LIVE: Georgia Senate Committees Hold Hearings on Election Issues (Dec. 3) | NTD1:00 p.m ET
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ur4vl5UTN8g
Maybe… but shouldn’t this “issue” come with any evidence whatsoever that votes where recorded as floats in any vote-counting software? The “expert” affidavits are all based on the NYT data (how else would timestamps for updates match to the second? And why would they match the state-total when counties use so many different methods to count the vote and report in different fashions?)
That speaks pretty poorly of the experts making these claims, and makes you wonder about the reliability of that stack of affidavit that are frequently cited en masse
Evidence presentaion in Michigan
https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/politics/2020/12/03/michigan-ag-to-gop-on-voter-fraud-evidence-put-up-or-shut-up/
^^^^^^^^^^^
Oh goody, a far left wing AG says she can see no evidence for fraud in Michigan,, after the complete fiasco at TCF in Detroit,,,
YAWN!!!! Why is that not surprising??? I bet, given her complete blindness to evidence that is right in front of her,, she would make a very good Darwinian troll right here on UD.
Per Wis: The good news from this lawsuit today — from a trusted friend in the Trump circle — is that the court did not rule on merit. The case was sent back to a lower court for a ruling.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/breaking-wisconsin-supreme-court-sends-trump-fraud-case-lower-court-good-news-team-trump/
I notice, BA, that you dismiss her as “far-left” without actually addressing any of the substance of the article, such as the statement of the judge or the statement that former state senator Patrick Colbeck never filed any complaint of election fraud, despite claiming to have evidence.
BA77
A competent legal team would have filed in the right court.
VL, actually, I did watch both MIchigan hearings,,, In fact I took fairly detailed notes of the first one and the evidence therein,,, and listened to the counter arguments presented at the second one,,, The counter arguments, although they explained a few facts, the arguments failed to address many of the main pieces of evidence for voter fraud.
Thus my personal opinion that there is plenty of evidence for widespread voter fraud in Michigan stands as unshaken,,,
Call me old fashioned for looking to the evidence itself instead of trusting a politician’s partisan rhetoric 🙂
A goody, Mac resorts to ad hominem argument ,,, instead of evidence,,,, to try to make his case that there is no evidence for voter fraud.
VL,,, Do you know how many times I myself have been personally attacked by Darwinists in my debates with them??? Not to mention the countless others who have been attacked, censored, lost jobs, etc.. etc… by Darwinists???
Shoot, it is literally the bread and butter argument of Darwinian arguments,,,
🙂 Footage of State Farm Arena in Atlanta shows that after poll monitors and media were told counting was done, four workers stayed behind to count ballots, at times pulling out suitcases containing ballots from underneath desks.
LIVE- HOW TO STEAL AN ELECTION
Method. Organised. Premeditated. Crime.
PS: over time evidences will grow because there are too much informations that need to be verified and systematized.
BA77
Why do I have to provide evidence? I’m not the one making claims of fraud, and then not being able to provide any supporting evidence in court.
BA writes, “VL, Do you know how many times I myself have been personally attacked by Darwinists in my debates with them??? Not to mention the countless others who have been attacked, censored, lost jobs, etc.. etc… by Darwinists??”
I really have no idea what “Darwinists” have to do with this discussion, but it seems to be the bane of BA’s life.
VL
I think it goes back to the pathology we touched on earlier. For some people here if you disagree with them on one subject they equate you with the Darwinist/materialist/Marxist worldview even if the point of disagreement has nothing to do with any of this. I guess it makes them feel justified in their marginalizing of your arguments without countering them with real evidence.
HMMM,,, so an inability to judge the evidence for Intelligent Design properly does not bleed over to a person’s ability to rightly judge evidence in all other matters of their life? Really????
Boy that is some kind of cognitive dissonance you are able to maintain in your brain without your head exploding.
Contrary to what you may believe, since your entire worldview is based on whether you believe the universe and life are Designed or not, your inability, and/or unwillingness, to judge the evidence for Intelligent Design properly therefore bleeds over into every other facet of your life.,,, It, your worldview, is literally the basis by which you judge everything else in your life,,,
Thus your inability to judge the evidence for Intelligent Design properly is indeed VERY much relevant to how you judge everything else in your life,,,
For instance, and to demonstrate for everyone else to see, do you believe your ‘beyond belief’ brain was Intelligently Designed or not?
So VL, do you believe your beyond belief brain is Intelligently Designed or not????
And if you can’t, and/or won’t, judge this evidence properly, why in blue blazes should anyone trust your judgement on anything else? You simply have lost all credibility!
And to repeat a question that you never did answer, do you believe that you derive your constitutional rights from men or do you believe that you derive them from God?
Thanks, for a reminder MMT. And BA, you don’t know what I think about “design” (whatever you mean by that), because I don’t think I’ve discussed anything about that here, and I don’t think this is the thread to start.
Shhhsh you can’t even answer a simple question honestly. Pathetic.
LIVE: Trump legal team presents voter fraud evidence to Nevada judge (Dec. 3) | NTD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdPT2saxs18
Worth a repost, here is the video that rocked the Georgia hearing today
BA, both your questions are not simple yes/no questions, and if you think they are then you most likely are a dogmatic believer whom I wouldn’t have a very profitable discussion with any way. I have friends of many philosophical and metaphysical persuasions that I like to discuss things with (Christians of several perspectives, Hindus, people who don’t really care about philosophical issues but care about how to be a good person, New Age-y people, etc.) There are lots of interesting ideas there, but there is no simple answer to your questions: what does one believe about God and what does one believe about how the world got to be the way it is can make for a fascinating discussion, although I have no dogmatic, certain beliefs, as you obviously do. But this is not relevant here.
VL, the question put to you, (after you were presented with overwhelming evidence for the Intelligent Design of your brain), was simply “So VL, do you believe your beyond belief brain is Intelligently Designed or not????”
The answer to that question is a one syllable word, i.e. yes or no.
Yet you refused to be honest and answer that simple question with a yes or no answer, but instead you chose to call me “a dogmatic believer” which is, of course, a ad hominem attack! SURPRISE!!! 🙂
And in spite of you trying to play games, it was a dishonest answer that revealed everything I needed to know about you,,,, i.e. Primarily, you are being intellectually dishonest,,,,.
Too sad! There is far more at stake than you can possibly realize right now,,,
As to life after death, Here is the testimony of a Harvard Doctor who had a deep NDE
BA77
Why do you think that anyone is obliged to tell you what they believe? We are talking about the possibility of election fraud, not design or religion. If you can’t limit your arguments to this then maybe you should go to a different thread.
Yes, I don’t need, or care, about BA’s evangelizing, and I don’t think that it’s reasonable for anyone who doesn’t believe as he does to be castigated into the category of someone who can’t assess evidence. Maybe you oldtimers here are used to this (seems like you are), but I’m not obligated to buy it.
And why do you think it is important to NOT tell me what you believe?,,, If it truly was as inconsequential to the topic at hand as you are trying to claim, then you would, of course, answer the simply question with a short yes or no answer and be done with it.
So again, why is it so important for you to NOT tell me what you believe? i.e. was your brain designed or was it not,,,, yes or no? A one syllable answer!
Your refusal to be honest in your answer reveals more than you realize!
Because it is more complicated question than just yes/no. The fact that you don’t recognize that is your problem, not mine. For instance, do you mean that mankind, including all of his body, was created ex nihilo according to a specific plan by the the Christian God. Or would believing in the design of a God like that of someone like Francis Collins count? Or design by Allah, or Brahma. Or design by the continual creation of the all aspects of the world by some Cosmic All or Cosmic Consciousness not related to any particular religion? Or does design necessarily imply conscious plan and then an implementation by a transcendent God, or can an immanent diffuse creative force bring forth design. One can’t believe all these things, but there are certainly strong believers in each of them.
And dogmatic is not an ad hominem. It is a description of a certain type of attitude towards one’s beliefs. For instance, the first dictionary definition that I got on the internet was “inclined to lay down principles as incontrovertibly true”, and that appears to fit you, and it doesn’t apply to me.
Sorry for the off-topic spiel, folks, but BA needs to let it go. I know this thread is about politics, not religion or philosophy, but I object to being told that I can’t read and think and assess evidence, even if I come to conclusions different than most of you, without being thrown into some nebulous “Darwinist” category that disqualifies me from being a legitimate participant in the discussion.
VL, I couldn’t have said it better.
I don’t have a view on ID because I have not made a point of examining it. I simply don’t find it all that interesting. That is why I don’t discuss it.
With regard to my religious views, those are my business.
However, I find it disingenuous to be classified as a Darwinist/materialist/Marxist/left-wing agitator just because I disagree with some here about the supposed evidence of widespread election fraud, or about SSM. Frankly, it says far more about those who do this than it does about me. And not in a good way.
Again, I apologize for the tangent, but I felt it had to be said.
Ortho, nice dance move step shift. Kindly go back to the DNA software, through the window of the leaked emails; cf. previous OP, U/D 25-26 IIRC. There you will find discussion of floating point values, i.e. rational numbers, on the subject of rounding. In addition, there is out there stuff on examination, with listed double precision variables as data type. Further, the root issue is attitudinal, a matter of distinct identity, a vote is inherently integer, and coming through a chain of custody to the point of being counted. That COUNT, should be reported as extending the chain to reporting the results of the COUNTING to the public and their media proxies. This includes the COUNTED totals for candidates, including that there are more than two, e.g. the Greens, Taxpayers, Libertarians, write-ins such as Mr Kanye West etc. KF
MMT, VL, BA77, we have already had a round over agendas and fellow travellers. Though such are underlying factors and it is noteworthy that there are indeed strong correlations of views and influences, such is tangential to the main focus of this thread. I will note that the undermining of core morality through the rise of atheism and fellow traveller views influenced by Darwinism as perceived plausibility factor, is part of what we are facing. As for being in denial of widespread fraud, there is something that is studiously evaded that sets up the high plausibility that the notorious history of machine politics is being spun up to a destructively higher level through the destabilising factor of mass, effectively uncontrolled mail-in ballots. That injection in the face of long established evidence on its characteristics, is decisive. And if ever something was needed to further show intent, it seems this and similarly ruinous pushes are slated for HR1, upcoming, as I linked on above. This is an existential issue. KF
PS: The key to recognising the plausibility that what was pushed for is being carried out, the failed moral duty challenge . . . and undermining of moral fibre and the linked understanding that justice is a constitutive element of our moral government and so of law from its roots, is a relevant underlying issue:
PPS: Notice, how patently sincere, consistent and credible eyewitnesses are being treated. I particularly observe that when civil servants are diverted from normal duties, then are instructed, pressured and demanded to act in dubious ways, that is intimidating, demoralising and corrupting in influence. Detroit in particular, has sown the wind and is reaping the whirlwind.
PPPS: the GA after closing count, suitcase pull-out and count video should recalibrate the discussion. However, I must note that insistence on video or the like as “proof” is doubly counter-productive. For, eyewitness testimony from a witness of truth is about the strongest evidence of fact there is, and routine undermining of such undermines in the end any report, this is a Categorical Imperative evil, in short. Indeed, even the reports of those challenging, records of scientific observation, documents etc all become suspect, ending in self-referential absurdity. We are also moving into an era of high tech video editing fakery that restores a situation where reliable eyewitness report is the only real defence against fraud.
Mac McTavish: Why do you think that anyone is obliged to tell you what they believe? We are talking about the possibility of election fraud, not design or religion. If you can’t limit your arguments to this then maybe you should go to a different thread.
If you are one of those imbecilic, evidence-denying Darwinists then it’s easier to dismiss other opinions you have. So it can come down to one simple question: do you believe in design in nature, yes or no?
Sorry KF for belaboring the issue, but I just note in passing that our left wing opponents, who have robotically repeated throughout this thread that they see no evidence of widespread voter fraud, have danced around. instead of honestly answering, a simple straightforward Yes/No question about seeing evidence for Design,,, A simply question that goes to the very core of their worldview, (no matter how may one try to parse that worldview out). Which is a far bigger tell as to their disingenuous agenda on this thread than they apparently realize.
KF, here is an even simpler question that I could have asked them that is even more direct to their core worldview and to the voting issue that is at hand, i.e. JVL and VL, “do you believe in free will or not? Yes or No? ,,,, ”
But I will not ask it KF since it, though directly related to the voting issue at hand, is still tangental to the voting issue at hand, and since JVL and VL have already clearly demonstrated that they are far more interested in disingenuous rhetoric than they are interested in ever honestly answering the simple yes/no question that was put to them with a simple yes/no answer., Basically, more interested in dishonest rhetoric than they are interested in having a truly honest discussion,,,
Telling and Sad,,,
F/N, U/D6, showing the capability for decimal-fraction value votes and built-in modules for their manipulation in the GEMS DNA software. Note, Bev Harris got leaked materials in 2003, likely from a whistleblower as it includes internal emails and actual live software modules. Blackbox Voting notes that similar capabilities, c 2016, were embedded in machines used for about 98 or 99 percent of the US voting population. The capability, credibly is there. The implied attitudes and wrongful intent are even more clear. KF
They Identified the person that was seen in the explosive film that was shown at the Georgia hearing yesterday,,,
,,, gonna need a bigger bag of popcorn 🙂 !
JVL, 316:
The issue is in the end highly significant for the global economy, for the stability of the global geostrategic balance and for the simple survival of credible general elections, so the material issue is that all 7.5 billion of us and our posterity are STAKEHOLDERS. In that context, fair comment is a global right given that the US is the leading maritime power that stabilises the world AND the first modern Constitutional Republic of Democratic Character.
I have commented as a global stakeholder.
Next, you insist on refusing to cogently address the pivot of the argument, the moral duty challenge on public facts, which has been long since failed and is currently being worsened through the injection of effectively uncontrolled mail-in ballots and 3rd party ballot harvesting. I note, again, on the challenge that you and other objectors refuse to address substantially and cogently:
This decisively shifts the balance of plausibility on likelihood of material election manipulation and linked fraud. Especially where as I just further documented, vote manipulation capability is built in in the DNA software. (I guess, it would be presented in marketing as what-if modelling. It however has capability to manipulate and to conceal manipulation, in real time; software response time on databases of millions of votes and a very large number of precincts being in seconds to a minute or a few.)
Let me update, from current news, regarding onward action intent:
In case, the packaging misleads, here is Sen Cotton’s reply (as I linked under don’t poke the bear):
In short, if this succeeds, the last reasonably fair election in the soon to be former Constitutional Republic, the USA, would have been 2016. The ideological, Marxism-influenced oligarchs are consolidating their nomenklatura by ensuring they can fix all future elections.
The mere fact that this was tried already is a warning shot. If it is put in place, it is “long train of abuses and usurpations” level causus belli.
And that is literally meant.
We are already in a low grade, shadows level global war with the 4GW civil war in the US as a pivotal theatre of operations. The consequences of the intents of the mutineers trying to take over the ship of state would be catastrophic.
Not only for the US, but for anyone who is a stakeholder of liberty, even for those of us whose only power to act is to speak out.
Such as, the undersigned:
GEM of TKI
KF
You should be proud and joyfull when you are called darwinist/materialist /leftist if these ideeas are true. Or not?
Our worldview is the source for anything we think because all ideeas are integrated to fit our worldview frame . Ideeas don’t just float in the air independent of person’s worldview .
When a person refuze to be open/proud about his worldview it’s a red flag.
PS:it’s true theists have also their part of guilt when they confound sin with sinner, when in fact Jesus said hate the sin but love the sinner.It’s a thin line.
PPS:it’s true some atheists take advantage of christians “turning other cheek” but when christians see the callousness of (some)atheists then they overreact . Atheists then overreact to overreaction that themselves stirred in the first place.
KF, I note that this story simply refuses to go away,,,
I note that having the ‘traffic and packets sent overseas during the 2020 election’ does not necessarily mean that they have the hardware itself,,,, since not having ‘permission’ to investigate Dominion software does not necessarily prevent ‘white hat’ hackers from hacking Dominion so as to obtain “the traffic and packets sent overseas during the 2020 election”,,,
So, IMHO, I still don’t buy the ‘Tom Clancy’ narrative of a special ops raid in Germany,,, The information on data flow on election night could have been obtained, more easily I might add, by other means,,,
VL,
I would agree that martial law and suspension of the constitution are anti-ethical to the spirit and intention of the constitution. Martial law by itself is not. Fortunately, as KF pointed out, the framers and those that soon followed (insurrection act of 1807) anticipated events such as we are witnessing and gave the President extremely broad powers to act in defense of the constitution against enemies foreign and domestic.
Hm. Even though the Frankfurt story is probably false, I’m happy the falsehood gained so much traction. Just look at that:
> In an unexpected silver lining to the theories, a fundraiser for McKee’s pregnant widow and two sons that had not received donations since before Thanksgiving now has more than 140 new donors apparently moved by the conspiracy theory. One individual accompanied a $500 donation with a note reading, “He lost his life fighting for truth!”
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-army/2020/12/01/this-retired-three-star-falsely-claims-us-soldiers-died-attacking-a-cia-facility-in-germany-tied-to-election-fraud/
F/N: Blast from the past, from a Democrat, Atty at Law John C. Bonifaz , 10 YA:
In short, warning after warning was given, but it was full speed ahead on a ‘bergy foggy night.
KF
ba77 –
I agree. I think (but I’m not sure) that this information can be obtained from the DNS servers, so hacking might not even be necessary.
F/N: As was noted in U/D17 to the previous OP:
https://2001-2009.state.gov/p/eur/rls/rm/39542.htm
>>Ambassador John Tefft, Deputy Assistant Secretary for European and Eurasian Affairs
Testimony Before the House International Relations Committee
Washington, DC
December 7, 2004
As prepared
Mr. Chairman, Members of the Committee, I am pleased to be here today to discuss with you current developments in Ukraine and U.S. policy.
As requested, I shall provide our assessment of the problems in the election that led to the current crisis, the U.S. position on the negotiations and other efforts aimed at resolving the crisis, the lessons learned in the earlier votes that could be useful in helping avoid a repeat of the fraud and abuse, the role of U.S. policy in helping to resolve the crisis, the impact of the current situation on other countries in the region, and an assessment of U.S. policy options for the period after the situation is resolved . . . .
The current crisis came to a head when the Ukrainian people rejected the massive fraud and abuse that characterized the November 21 second round of the presidential election. The numerous problems that characterized the voting in the election’s second round, however, were the culmination of months of irregularities, intimidation, and abuse by the pro-presidential side. In fact, the entire presidential campaign for almost the last year was plagued by difficulties. In his testimony before your Subcommittee on Europe last May, my predecessor, Deputy Assistant Secretary Steven Pifer, described in detail the many problems in the electoral campaign, including harassment of opposition politicians and those who supported them; obstruction and preclusion of opposition campaign events; abuse of state resources to support the government’s candidate, Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych; a near-monopoly of media attention for Yanukovych; violence and intimidation directed against independent media outlets; and eleventh-hour attempts to change the Ukrainian Constitution to extend the current authorities’ hold on power. Despite strong messages from the United States, including from President Bush, and the international community against such actions, the Ukrainian authorities made little effort to rectify these imbalances. These problems in the campaign persisted up to the moment voting began.
The first round of balloting on October 31, too, was plagued by numerous problems and irregularities. The report of the observer mission of the OSCE’s Office of Democratic Institutions and Human Rights (ODIHR) found that the first round failed to meet a considerable number of international standards for democratic elections and, thus, represented a “step backwards” from the 2002 Rada election, the last major election in Ukraine. Despite the many problems in the first round, however, there was no serious doubt that opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko and Prime Minister Yanukovych received more votes than any of the other candidates (39.87 percent and 39.32 percent, respectively, as determined by the Central Election Commission) and were thus entitled to run in the second round on November 21. (Ukrainian law provides that if no candidate receives a majority of the votes cast in the presidential election, the two candidates who received the largest number of votes should stand for a winner-take-all second round of voting held several weeks after the first round.) In their reports, the OSCE and other election observers detailed a number of ways in which Ukraine’s electoral machinery needed to be fixed or adjusted in order to make the second round of voting free and fair to both candidates.
Despite the hopes of the Ukrainian people and the international community that the Ukrainian authorities would heed those recommendations, the second round of voting featured even greater and more widespread fraud and abuse. Senator Lugar, in Ukraine as President Bush’s representative, who testified before you today, noted “a concerted and forceful program of election day fraud and abuse…with either the leadership or cooperation of the governmental authorities.” The OSCE/ODIHR’s report said that the election did not meet “a considerable number” of international standards, and that, as in the first round, state executive authorities and the Central Election Commission displayed a lack of will to conduct a genuinely democratic election process. ODIHR assessed the second round “less favorably” than the tainted October 31 first round vote. A U.S.-funded foreign NGO observer mission also described “a coordinated, systematic pattern of major violations leading to an outcome that does not reflect the will of the Ukrainian people.”
The following are examples of the most egregious, widely observed and reported examples of election-day fraud on November 21:
Illegal Use of Absentee Ballots: According to the respected NGO “Committee of Voters of Ukraine” (CVU), massive electoral fraud was committed through the illegal use of absentee voter certificates. For example, people were caught in Dnipropetrovsk and Sumy oblasts with their pockets stuffed with blank absentee ballots that they were using to vote at multiple polling stations.
Opposition Observers Ejected: Observers from Our Ukraine and other opposition groups were expelled from most polling stations in eastern Ukraine on Election Day. For example, in Territorial Election Commission (TEC) district number 42 in Donetsk oblast, Our Ukraine observers were kicked out of all but a few polling stations.
North Korean-Style Turnout in the East: Turnout in the pro-Yanukovych eastern oblasts was unnaturally high. In several electoral districts, turnout for the run-off round increased by 30 to 40 percent over the first round. In Luhansk oblast, the reported turnout rate hit nearly 96 percent — a number that, to quote the OSCE, even Stalinist North Korea would envy. A similar turnout rate was reported in Donetsk oblast, where 98 percent of the votes went to hometown candidate Prime Minister Yanukovych.
Mobile Ballot Box Fraud: In the second round of the election, the number of voters who supposedly cast ballots at home using mobile ballot boxes was double that of the first round. Much of this voting occurred without observers being present and was massively fraudulent. In Mykolayiv oblast, for example, nearly 35 percent of the oblast’s voters purportedly cast their ballots “at home.”
Computer Data Allegedly Altered To Favor Yanukovych: There were credible reports showing that that Yanukovych supporters gained illegal access to the Central Election Commission’s computer system and illegally altered vote tabulation data being transmitted by TECs to the CEC.
Reports of Opposition Fraud: Yanykovych’s supporters allege that Yushchenko’s supporters stuffed ballot boxes in western Ukraine. But the reports and evidence of pro-Yanukovych fraud greatly outweighed those indicated for Yushchenko.
This massive ballot-box stuffing, fake turnout figures, and other forms of fraud and abuse allowed the authorities to create a victory for their candidate that almost certainly would not have been possible in a free and fair election. The final figures announced by the Central Election Commission (CEC) gave Prime Minister Yanukovych with 49.46 percent of the vote over opposition candidate Yushchenko with 46.61 percent. It is impossible to know what the real numbers were, but a large-scale (20,000 respondents), nation-wide anonymous exit poll conducted by a consortium of three highly respected research organizations (partially funded by the United States Government) projected Yushchenko the winner with 53 percent versus 44 percent for Yanukovych. Other exit polls and parallel vote counts indicated a Yushchenko victory, although by lesser amounts. >>
Now, the shoe is on the other foot.
KF
F/N: From 1273 in the previous thread, re the 1994 PA case:
https://www.nytimes.com/1994/02/19/us/vote-fraud-ruling-shifts-pennsylvania-senate.html?smid=tw-share
Saying Philadelphia’s election system had collapsed under “a massive scheme” by Democrats to steal a State Senate election in November, a Federal judge today took the rare step of invalidating the vote and ordered the seat filled by the Republican candidate.
In making such a sweeping move, the judge, Clarence C. Newcomer of Federal District Court here, did for the Republicans what the election had not: enable them to regain control of the State Senate, which they lost two years ago.
Judge Newcomer ruled that the Democratic campaign of William G. Stinson had stolen the election from Bruce S. Marks in North Philadelphia’s Second Senatorial District through an elaborate fraud in which hundreds of residents were encouraged to vote by absentee ballot even though they had no legal reason — like a physical disability or a scheduled trip outside the city — to do so.
In many instances, according to Republicans who testified during a four-day civil trial last week, Democratic campaign workers forged absentee ballots. On many of the ballots, they used the names of people who were living in Puerto Rico or serving time in prison, and in one case, the voter had been dead for some time.
“Substantial evidence was presented establishing massive absentee ballot fraud, deception, intimidation, harassment and forgery,” Judge Newcomer wrote in a decision made public today.
The district, which includes white, black and Hispanic neighborhoods, is overwhelmingly Democratic by registration. Nonetheless, campaign workers testified that widespread voter apathy had prompted them to promote a “new way to vote” to insure a victory. Door to Door for Votes . . . .
“This is extraordinary relief,” Judge Newcomer wrote. “However, it is appropriate because extraordinary conduct by the Stinson campaign and the board tainted the entirety of the absentee ballots.” . . . .
The judge decided to hear the case after state election officials and state courts rejected the Republicans’ claims. The Republicans have an appeal pending before the state’s highest court. They went to Federal court on the ground that there were violations of the Voting Rights Act and Civil Rights Act . . . >>
An all too familiar pattern.
See what the moral duty challenge addresses?
Notice, this has been on the table for weeks, with modus operandi documented from court case and NYT report.
Established pattern is itself a factor in evaluating balance of plausibilities.
As is insistence on paving the way for fraud.
KF
Laying again, the public facts baseline.
kf – the difference between the Marks complaint and the current complaints is that in that one the judge found “Substantial evidence was presented establishing massive absentee ballot fraud, deception, intimidation, harassment and forgery”, whereas the current complaints have been so flimsy they haven’t even got to discovery – in some cases judges have decided that even if the factual claims are true, they wouldn’t be enough to conclude fraud.
F/N: New Business, following up BA77:
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/12/03/video-georgia-vote-counters-suitcases-ballots-table-observers-media-leave/
>>President Donald Trump’s attorney, former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani, presented bombshell evidence from surveillance cameras that appeared to catch cases of “absentee and military” ballots being pulled out from under a table to be counted in Fulton County, Georgia.
The alleged incident occurred at 10:30 p.m. at State Farm Arena after counting allegedly stopped when the observers and other workers were told to go home.
The woman testifying said she witnessed four “suitcases” be pulled out from under the table. That occurred after a supervisor “with blond braids” told poll workers to leave the room. Four people, including the woman with the braids who told the others to leave, stayed behind to continue counting votes, according to the allegation.
“So what are these ballots doing there separate from all the other ballots and why are they only counting them whenever the place is cleared out with no witnesses?” Jacki Pick, a Trump legal team volunteer, asked the Georgia Senate.
Pick said the unobserved counting went on from 10:30 p.m. until about 1:00 a.m. The attorney alleged the counting resumed only after the Republican observers and members of the media left the room.
Jenna Ellis, a member of Trump’s legal team, said it indicated “fraud.”>>
This of course happens to be backed up through surveillance video.
This, is a test . . .
KF
KF, Gov Kemp, due in large part to the bombshell video yesterday, is calling for a signature audit,,,
video
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7xvhsk
Kyle Becker
9h ago – GEORGIA.
GA Gov. Kemp is calling on Sec. of State Raffensperger to call for a *SIGNATURE AUDIT* of votes.
Kemp appeared on The Ingraham Angle in the wake of damning security cam footage that showed poll workers in Fulton County illegally processing ballots with no observers.
https://twitter.com/kylenabecker/status/1334703575109427200
Mac, JVL, Viola, Bob O’H, seversky, et al., the point of being a Darwinist is that it is obvious that you are incapable of assessing evidence. The same goes for anyone who merely denies that ID is scientific. That’s just the way it is. You only go along with the alleged experts that you think you agree with.
Not one of you is investigating the alleged voter fraud. Not one of you has any knowledge into what is being investigated. And every one of you has to deny eyewitness testimony.
So no one is going to listen to anything you have to say about it.
Rudy Guiliani road grades those who say “there is no evidence.”
#ThugLife
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgBwW0FpMeE
H’mm, after it was announced that all was hunky dory with the ballot count? That sounds a bit late, or does he realise that the legislature or the US Congress can act on the tainted slate of electors. KF
PS: Scripture about that notorious Kraken answering to the name, YHWH and noted for riding on storm clouds:
WJM, wow, THREE cases not thirty-nine, boom. 2,000 affidavits sworn under oath and penalty of perjury, and doubtless more to roll out, ka-boom. Member to be disciplined by court of peers for breach of parliamentary immunity from ordinary defamation action, secondary ka-ta-boom. Implicit, the member signalling intent to dox and harass a witness by demanding even her maiden name should take due notice. KF
Thanks again, William. Brilliant.
via WJM’s link,,, Here is a more complete clip of the secret cases that were brought out when everyone else was told to leave because of the fake water pipe story,,,
VIDEO EVIDENCE: Secret Cases FULL of Ballots In Georgia!? | Louder With Crowder
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQ9YGSMY2xg
Cue VL, JVL , mainstream media..etc… to deny that they see any evidence for voter fraud here,,, ‘nothing to see here’,,, ‘move along’,,, they will say,,,
ET –
True. The same is true for ba77, kf, Sandy, etc, of course.
Oh, so they’re not investigating what happened at the TCF center. Or statistical patterns in the voting data. Or the operation of Dominion voting machines. Or internet contact between a Dominion server and Europe. Or a (non-existent) server in Frankfurt, or possibly Bielefeld. Or processing of boxes in Fulton County, Georgia.
So what is being investigated?
I think we’re denying the interpretation or relevance of the events that were witnessed. On the TCF center explicitly, the interpretation was rejected by a circuit court judge, who heard the evidence from both sides.
Fair enough. Nobody has to listen to what I say (except my students, in limited circumstances).
BA writes, “KF, here is an even simpler question that I could have asked them that is even more direct to their core worldview and to the voting issue that is at hand, i.e. JVL and VL, “do you believe in free will or not? Yes or No? ”
Yes.
Although understanding what that means exactly, how it interacts with the physical world, where it comes from, etc. is a question that, once again, is answered in many different philosophical and religious ways. I don’t know the answers to those questions, but I accept the fact that I experience my ability to make choices, and consider taking responsibility for them a key moral obligation.
BornAgain77: But I will not ask it KF since it, though directly related to the voting issue at hand, is still tangental to the voting issue at hand
Is that like being a wave and a particle at the same time? If I observe the situation will it become one or the other?
VL, there in no ambiguity, free will is THE defining property of the immaterial mind that clearly distinguishes agent causality from all other forms of secondary causality.,,, It is THE defining property on the immaterial mind that allows us to act as free and rational agents instead on ‘meat robots’ as Jerry Coyne has termed us,,,,,,
Earth to Bob O’H- THOUSANDS of affidavits testifying to voter fraud. THAT is what is being investigated.
Re 379: Yes, here is the question I would ask if I were going to ask a question, but since I’ve been asked to not ask a question, I won’t ask it. 🙂
More detailed information comes in on the identity of the woman in the video,,
What are the odds that she ‘disappears’ like Eric Coomer and Hunter Biden did?,,, 🙂
Here’s another report of the Georgia ballots. Let the hyper-scepticism begin!
“Let the hyper-scepticism begin!” LOL, sorry Bob, you guys beat us to the “hyper-scepticism” part a very long time ago,,, 🙂
Don’t look too hard at your supposed rebuttal though, if falls apart under the slightest scrutiny,,,
for example, Poll watchers told to leave because of fake water pipe story,,, then counting continues??? Do you see any poll watchers in the video??? I don’t,,,, I see people leaving, I see them, i.e. ‘the yellow shirts’, waiting for the people to leave, and then I see a ‘jump into action’ when the ‘coast was clear’ with no other people, especially poll watchers, present !
I have some swamp land to sell you Bob!
What sort of “fact checker” doesn’t get off of their butt and do some real investigating? No, I will call the people who will be in trouble if true as if they aren’t going to lie to save face. Right…
Bob O’H: Here’s another report of the Georgia ballots. Let the hyper-scepticism begin!
So, another tempest in a teacup. The observers left of their own accord when the workers whose jobs were done left. Too funny!
Guess that’s another piece of ‘evidence’ that won’t be brought up in court.
per 376 “Cue VL, JVL , mainstream media..etc… to deny that they see any evidence for voter fraud here,,, ‘nothing to see here’,,, ‘move along’,,, they will say,,,”
Thanks for jumping in and exactly confirming my prediction for what you would do,,, you guys are a friggin JOKE!,,,
VIDEO EVIDENCE: Secret Cases FULL of Ballots In Georgia!? | Louder With Crowder
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQ9YGSMY2xg
Again, no poll watchers were present,,, a violation of state law!
Bornagain77: per 376 “Cue VL, JVL , mainstream media..etc… to deny that they see any evidence for voter fraud here,,, ‘nothing to see here’,,, ‘move along’,,, they will say,,,”
Well, it will be easy enough to check with the workers. And some of the people who spoke to the news agency are identified:
Ooo, a Republican.
Face it, someone misinterpreted what they saw on the video tape, didn’t bother to ask workers who were there at the time what was going on, slammed it into the conspiracy theory and are going to look very foolish. Again.
This is why cases are being dismissed left and right. The ‘evidence’ is rubbish.
Bornagain77: Again, no poll watchers were present,,, a violation of state law!
Apparently not. Maybe you should check things before you repeat them.
JVL, per the code you cited ,,, “it is their (republican observers’s) right to be there if they choose.”
Do I really have to explain this particular violation of law to you???
Geesh, they did not ‘choose’ to leave by any stretch of imagination, but they were ‘told’ to leave by the same exact woman who is implicated in the video,,,
Thus they, the Republican observers, certainly did not ‘choose’ to leave but were told to go home, and therefore, by your own reference to the code, this is a direct violation of state law, recorded on video for crying out loud, and therefore all the votes counted during that time should, as far as the law itself is concerned, (per your own reference as to how the code is to be interpreted), be considered as fraudulently counted votes,,,,
Given that Georgia is something like a 11,000 to 12,000 vote difference, this violation by itself, not counting the thousands of other instances of voter fraud found in Georgia, is enough to bring the race to, at least, a dead heat, if not enough to turn the election completely towards Trump!
Thanks, Bob. Another piece of “evidence” that would amount to nothing in a court.
I wonder where/if this will ever get into a court case, or if it’s just another piece of “fake news” that is being punted around the conspiro-sphere?
Bornagain77: Geesh, they did not ‘choose’ to leave by any stretch of imagination, they were told to leave by the same exact woman who is implicated in the video,,,
Not according to other witnesses. And you cannot hear what is said on the video. I don’t see anyone forcing out the witnesses. You’d think they would have stayed as is their right as long as they were workers there. Sounds like they screwed up: they heard some workers say: we’re going home, we’re done and misinterpreted it. They should also know that no one can force them to leave as long as work is still being done. If the doors weren’t locked (according to a witness) then they were not forced out. Do you see anyone being herded out? Do you see the doors being locked? Why then would the observers leave when there were still poll workers there especially if they were suspicious? They screwed up. That’s the simple answer.
At the very least there are two versions of what happened that night. It will be easy enough to talk to as many people as possible to find out what actually was said. If the observers left of their own accord then no law was violated.
The poll workers knew they were being video taped. They did nothing to hide or interfere with the video recording. Looks like people innocently getting on with what they were doing.
Which ones swore out affidavits under penalty of perjury?
In Georgia at 12:18A.M. a vote batch of 23,000 (98% Biden). Could be sent exactly by 4 people who “counted” alone? 🙂
https://twitter.com/KanekoaTheGreat/status/1330430051251318787
https://youtu.be/mp0u4dw7GH4
Your comments are the best kind of involuntary comedy. You do have a peculiar kind of intelligence that is very strange compartimentalized :it’s way above average in few areas and is 0 in other areas.
JVL, 🙂 throwing your [SNIP] on the wall and seeing if it will stick might amuse you and your monkey brain, but I have better things to do,,,
‘Stop the count’ and then removing republican observers was a nationwide thing there Bonzo,,,,, GA just happened to jump the gun a little prematurely with the fake ‘water pipe incident’,,,
Besides being highly unusual, (and more importantly, without republican observers per JVL’s own reference), it is highly illegal!
William J Murray: Which ones swore out affidavits under penalty of perjury?
On both sides? Can you name any of the accusers who have given affidavits? Yes or no?
On the other hand, public officials (who have not been asked to swear out affidavits) have responded to at least one news agency asking for comments. They did not ask to be anonymous, they spoke in their official capacities.
I’m sure that IF it becomes a matter of law they will make an appearance in court and swear to give the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, especially since they’ve already committed their version of the night into the public record.
Some observers at a ballot counting station screw up and leave before the counting was finished because a bunch of workers went home, probably saying our work is done. The workers who stayed did not try and hide or conceal what they were doing from the video cameras which they knew were operating. Then someone finds this video (pretty late in the game by the way) and thinks it shows something it doesn’t and, of course, doesn’t bother to try and verify their interpretation. They just toss it onto the conspiracy pile as usual.
Some of you guys didn’t even know the law in Georgia. You’re too busy hyperventilating over another piece of non-evidence.
There never was any good evidence in the first place. Just the Trumpster making a claim. Since then everyone who wants to agree with him is just anomaly hunting and misinterpreting things. That’s the simplest explanation; not some conspiracy theory involving thousands and thousands of people, oodles of money and some kind of coordination that is probably far beyond anyone in government.
None so blind as those who are unwilling to see, even when they have the video evidence provided right in front of them for them to see!
There is, by far, more evidence for voter fraud than there is for evolutionism. That’s gotta hurt.
BO’H, popped in for a moment. I note that my central argument pivots on publicly accessible evidence, some of which I again put on the table today, most of it quite longstanding. Namely, the moral duty challenge:
The further development is the Pelosi-Cotton exchange in which it is made clear that the destabilising element is intended to now be entrenched, completing a coup that destroys elections as a credible, peaceful alternative to the old fashioned way that lawless oligarchies had to be dealt with. That is literally the intended first resolution for the Representatives.
That is outright causus belli.
Literally.
These folks either don’t understand the fire they are playing with, or they imagine they have overawing power.
Either way, they are heading into disaster.
KF
200,000 ballots shipped across state lines. Sworn affidavit, very credible witness,,,
Lou Dobbs interview – video
https://www.facebook.com/153080620724/videos/1055447584921189
BA77
Why do you think that if someone does not believe that there was widespread voter fraud that they must be left wing? I do not belong to either party but I vote Republican more often than I vote Democrat. Exactly what have I ever said that makes you conclude that I am a left-winger? That I oppose Trump? Not all Republicans support Trump. That I don’t believe there is compelling evidence of widespread voter fraud? Not all Republicans believe there was fraud. That I support SSM? Well, I’m gay. As far as I know, homosexuality does not respect party lines.
Mac, don’t waste your breath,,, you have lost all credibility with me,,,, you have not been fair and balanced by any reasonable measure of being fair and balanced,,, i.e. “Don’t spit in my face and tell me it’s raining.”
Jenna Ellis on the SHOCKING evidence presented to the Georgia State Senate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRs2urjnzMU
BA77, language, Remember the broken window theory. KF
Darwinists are here just for fun . They are not interested in evidences , keep this in mind and don’t take them too seriously just think they are 10 years children. 🙂
Sandy,,,
this message was sent just to me on FB, “same woman (in the video) was caught running the same stack of ballots through 3 times,,,”
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10222024394292189&set=p.10222024394292189&type=3
BA77
You could run the same ballot through 100 times and it would still only count one vote. That is why they are barcoded.
And every recount, every audit of paper ballots against the machines they were counted on, and every audit of the machine counts against the tabulated counts and reported counts failed to find any discrepancies.
Sandy of note,,,
Sterling’s title is, get this,,,
Oh goody, “Voting System Implementation Manager at Georgia “,,, That reveals a lot!
thus it would be safe to say that Gabriel Sterling played a very large role in Georgia’s recent 110 million dollar investment in Dominion machines,,, and thus that explains his current ‘denier in chief’ role as to election irregularities,,,
Sterling has been at this quite a while,,,
He literally is the fox guarding the hen house for Dominion in Georgia!
i.e. The very last person you should trust!
If you would have watched the hearing yesterday, you would know that the recounts conducted thus far are worthless,,, that is precisely why the Governor is asking for a signature audit!
As to machine counts not going over,,,, that overcount is not caught until ‘down the line’,,, and she would not have necessarily known that at the time she was re-running stacks,,, I would hold that, if true, (I can’t tell from the small picture sent to me) is that it shows ‘malicious’ intent’ on her part if she did indeed run stacks multiple times,,,
Yes is obvious:
Purple Shirt lady scanning same ballots multiple times. No witness for seal.
https://streamable.com/78mptq
Sandy,,, Man that is gold! ,,,, you are the man for finding that nugget!
Purple Shirt lady scanning same ballots multiple times. No witness for seal.
https://streamable.com/78mptq
,,, This is far more damning than the original video was! It is as if you are looking at the actual murder itself, instead of just looking at the murderer loading a gun prior to a murder,,,
A blurry, jerky low-res video. Good luck proving anything with that in court.
Seversky, fancies himself a fair arbiter of evidence???
LOL 🙂 You are kidding right??
OK Seversky, I’ll play along,,,
How many laws do you personally think were broken in the video Seversky???
Sandy, somebody matched the ‘vote dump’ timeline to the timeline of the Georgia video,,,
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10159604988917908&set=pcb.10159604989102908
Bigger timeline
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10159604989047908&set=pcb.10159604989102908
On the basis of that video? None
LOL,,, thanks for playing Seversky,,,
Bornagain77: this message was sent just to me on FB, “same woman (in the video) was caught running the same stack of ballots through 3 times,,,”
Where exactly on the video does that take place? Please be specific.
I would hold that, if true, (I can’t tell from the small picture sent to me) is that it shows ‘malicious’ intent’ on her part if she did indeed run stacks multiple times,,,
So, do you have clear evidence this happened? Yes or no?
,, This is far more damning than the original video was! It is as if you are looking at the actual murder itself, instead of just looking at the murderer loading a gun prior to a murder,,,
Uh huh. We’ll see what a court makes of it.
How many laws do you personally think were broken in the video Seversky???
Based on what you can actually see in the video: none. You cannot possibly infer illegalities based on the video as presented. AS INTERPRETED is another matter.
JVL
I’m sure that wearing that sweater must be a crime.
Mac McTavish: I’m sure that wearing that sweater must be a crime.
Well, yes, but that’s covered under a completely different cultural law.
This is basically the same strategy Trump has always used. Do whatever he can to keep front and center of the news cycle day after day. Doesn’t really matter how many cases his “elite strike force” legal team loses as long as they keep his name out there. It doesn’t really matter that all this is really sour grapes from a bunch of sore losers.
I believe the county involved in this latest viral video issue have explained the situation, and voted to recertify the election results.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/georgia-recertifies-election-results-fulton-county-video
🙂 Oh no , since when criminals are asked if they broke the law and if they say they didn’t then that’s it case is solved.
Has anyone filed a court case about the situation?
VL
You are joking, right?
Correct if I am wrong. But Trump is officially down 10k in both Georgia and Arizona and 20k in Wisconsin. If for some reason these three states were flipped, it would be 269 – 269 and it goes to House?
I have paid marginal attention to the specifics but someone said this.
Dominion’s Parent Company Arranges $400 Million Placement 1 Month Before Election: SEC Filing – December 4, 2020
A filing with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) shows that UBS Securities LLC arranged a private placement of $400 million with Staple Street Capital III, L.P. on October 8, 2020.
Staple Street Capital, a private equity firm located in New York, purchased Dominion Voting systems on July 17, 2018, for an undisclosed amount.
The securities firm that arranged the transaction, UBS Securities LLC, is a division of UBS Americas Inc, which ultimately falls under UBS Group AG, a company listed on the SIX Swiss stock exchange.
Three of four board members of UBS Securities LLC are Chinese according to Bloomberg, at least one of whom appears to reside in Hong Kong.
In 2014 UBS Securities LLC arranged a $200 million private placement for Staple Street Capital II, L.P. a previous company name. Staple Street Capital III, L.P. was founded in 2020. The previous company operated as a private equity fund and used the funds to invest in medium-sized businesses.
Dominion is facing multiple allegations for violating security standards and election manipulation, and it has denied those allegations.
“The company has no ownership ties whatsoever to USB [sic], or the governments of China, Cuba, or Venezuela,” the latest statement updated on Dec. 3 on Dominion website states.
Staple Street Capital made significant changes to its website recently. Information about Team, Executive Board, and Portfolio have all been deleted.
Neither Dominion nor Staple Street Capital has responded to a request for comment from The Epoch Times.
https://www.theepochtimes.com/dominions-parent-company-arranges-400-million-placement-1-month-before-election-sec-filing_3604287.html
Seversky: This is basically the same strategy Trump has always used. Do whatever he can to keep front and center of the news cycle day after day.
What strategy is the leftist propagandist/activist MSM using? See if you can figure it out. Then report back.
It just got much worse for poor ole Miss Ruby,,,
And then this,,
In other words, she knew exactly what type of ballots she was bringing in when she pushed the ‘hidden ballots’ in in the morning before anyone else had arrived, because she had probably processed most of the four containers of fraudulent ballots all by her lonesome self,,,
And again,,
And somebody even matched the ‘vote dump’ timeline to the timeline of the Georgia video,,,
Something tells me that poor ole Miss Ruby is about to ‘disappear’ off the face of the earth and will ‘unfortunately’ be unavailable for questioning before the Senate,,,
MMT, you obviously didn’t heed the tech person, who observed a result of multiple scans up to 500 vote count. Her comment, SOP was on jam, do a flush of count, restack with jammed ballot on top, run the 50 again. The expected total count on machines was not expected to top 50. KF
PS, of course the REAL problem is uncontrolled mail in ballots and linked harvesting, which Ms Pelosi hopes to entrench as part of HR1. FYI that is causus belli, literally; destroying integrity of the peaceful ballot box leaves only the old fashioned way to remove entrenched lawless oligarchy. It is frankly insane to be playing with that fire; but that is just where the US is.
KF, yet you have failed to demonstrate that the checks and balances in place to ensure a secure election did not work. All audits and recounts have confirmed the original numbers.
AZ Legislative Leaders call for audit of Maricopa County election software and equipment
https://twitter.com/AZSenateGOP/status/1334937419162914817/photo/1
https://twitter.com/hashtag/AZSenate?src=hashtag_click
I checked out the of post, but couldn’t find any evidence for fractional vote counts in 2020 (just that some software used in some counties, at least in the past is capable of doing it). So, if there any evidence of out happening (other than the counts derived from the NYT data?)
Hmmm,
BREAKING: 76 of 141 Republican Representatives in PA Send Letter to Congress Asking Them to Reject State’s 20 Electors
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/breaking-76-141-republican-representatives-pa-send-letter-congress-asking-reject-states-20-electors/
Politifact provides a much different take on the story: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/dec/04/facebook-posts/no-georgia-election-workers-didnt-kick-out-observe/
@JVL:
English is not my first language. But doesn’t “in part” indicate that I wasn’t talking about hundreds of murders?
MMT, there are many ways to make paper and electronic counts match, once there is lack of effective scrutineering, which is manifest. We already have adequate proof that a destabilising paper element was injected and is in process now of being entrenched. Such destroys the integrity of elections and is causus belli under the “long train of abuses and usurpations” clause in the 2nd para US DoI. Accepting tainted ballots and breaking down effective scrutineer control on chain of custody are enough already. Further to all of this, there is a considerable body of eyewitness evidence that something was very wrong with the conduct of the election, which it is clear you are in denial about. The folly involved in destabilising the election system and pretending that such enhances democracy is manifest. KF
Ortho, once fractional votes based on other than the direct count of the actual votes with due scrutineer control on chain of custody to that point are being reported to the public, we know that a corrupt principle has been injected. Where, the underlying attitude to the identity of what a vote is and represents is sufficient warning. The further factor of demonstrated ability to manipulate votes and log files are enough to utterly indict the software. When we see that it is not only Trump and his circle who have been pointing out the dubious roots of the core, DNA software and systems, on public record, that underscores the points. The software and machines should be repudiated as tainted and sent to the crushers. Paper ballots, with transparent optical scans kept on indelible digital record for cross-check, with scrutiny on ballots then counting as INTEGERS and reporting on the curated value, is where this needs to go. Destabilising elements and defects should be removed: proper ID and demonstration of right to vote, no uncontrolled mail-in ballots and harvesting by 3rd parties, proper custody of ballots, scrutiny on voting and counting etc. Count at the precinct, transfer totals signed off by responsible officers and scrutineers, transmit to scrutineer controlled totalising centres as scanned optical documents, sum on standard software such as an open source spreadsheet, e.g. that for Open Office, curating the values as integers. There is no need for minute by minute reporting streams, send from precincts when they sign off. Follow up with paper documents, with an automatic cross check. KF
F/N, observe how the objectors have studiously avoided the victory laps being run by radicals. KF
AndyClue: English is not my first language. But doesn’t “in part” indicate that I wasn’t talking about hundreds of murders?
What do you think “in part murdering hundreds of young German women” means then? What about “in part murdering tens of young German women”? If you meant they murdered a few why not just say that?
Kairosfocus: Ortho, once fractional votes based on other than the direct count of the actual votes with due scrutineer control on chain of custody to that point are being reported to the public, we know that a corrupt principle has been injected.
But that’s not what happened is it? Fractional votes were NOT REPORTED to the public. Some guy looked at a direct feed NOT MEANT for public distribution, initially got the company whose data stream it was wrong, then interpreted some numbers to mean fractional votes were being reported and recorded. Orthomyxo has already explained this but you keep banging on the same refrain as if no one had heard you. We have, we have responded, but not in the way you wished.
AndyClue: Politifact provides a much different take on the story: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/dec/04/facebook-posts/no-georgia-election-workers-didnt-kick-out-observe/
From that article:
And remember, all this happened with video cameras running, the workers KNEW there were video cameras working and they did absolutely nothing to hide what they were doing. No cameras failed, no videos were lost. The observers screwed up, they heard some people were done and left while there were still people there working even though they were NOT forced out. Why did they leave when there were still people there especially if they (erroneously as some of the commenters here) thought that by Georgia law they had to be present? They screwed up, plain and simple. That’s the simplest explanation.
Why didn’t someone from the Trumpsters ask the pertinent individuals what was going on on the tape before trumping it to the world as another example of fraud thereby making themselves look more and more foolish?
https://themarshallreport.wordpress.com/2020/11/29/blue-sky-report-lt-gen-mcinerney-calls-for-insurrection-act-with-habeas-corpus/
Interesting breakdown of what would constitute the legal invocation of the Insurrection Act. Looks like a slam dunk on 2-3 counts. Trump may be letting the bad actors hang themselves before implementation. The bad actors may be attempting to force him to use it in order to characterize him as a despot to justify getting other bad states around the world to intervene. Could be both at the same time.
If the SCOTUS does its job and throws out the results of the key states on constitutional grounds (if state courts and officials won’t do it,) they might do so with prejudice and award the election in those states to Republican candidates. It wouldn’t matter what the actual vote tally was even if they could figure it out. IOW, if your team cheats, the other team wins by default.
That would give Trump the win without the need to invoke the insurrection Act, but IMO it needs to be invoked at some point regardless. The enemy needs to be cleared out and with lower courts, state houses, the media and a lot of the Federal Government and agencies involved, the only Constitutional remedy is military court. Several moves by Trump over the past four years have cleared and secured this path.
It appears that a lot of what Trump has been saying for the past four years has been persuasion to get the public as ready as possible for this. Also, a lot of what the Dems have been saying and doing for four years has been to persuade as many as possible into their narrative in advance of the invocation of the Act. IOW, both sides, it seems to me, have been preparing for the eventual invocation of the Insurrection Act by Trump, like they both knew at some point it was going to happen.
And really, one way or the other, Trump really has no option other than to use it at some point. It’s the only way you can actually drain the swamp, stop the fake news, and clear out all the bad actors who have penetrated every aspect of the significant institutions in America. It would be, at a minimum, hundreds of people arrested, but more likely thousands.
Powell files lawsuit in Arizona:
https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.azd.1255923/gov.uscourts.azd.1255923.1.0.pdf
William J Murray: That would give Trump the win without the need to invoke the insurrection Act, but IMO it needs to be invoked at some point regardless. The enemy needs to be cleared out and with lower courts, state houses, the media and a lot of the Federal Government and agencies involved, the only Constitutional remedy is military court.
I’d like to think that everyone else on this thread would absolutely decry this interpretation and attitude towards the voting non-crisis. But it scares me to think that some of you will agree with it.
The ‘enemy’ are also citizens of the United States which means they have Constitutionally protected rights which you are proposing to abrogate. You don’t respect the Constitution at all, you’ll happily bypass it because you view those who disagree with you as enemies. You’re in support of a coup because you don’t want to go through the system of government you claim to be defending.
I find your view (all in your own head by the way as you’ve been at pains to tell us) frightening and appalling. I believe that cooler heads will prevail, that even if Trump did declare an insurrection that few, if any, of the military units would support him. He might get his David Koresh moment barricaded in the White House until they run out of food or drink the purple koolade but all that would do is to wake up the US populace to the kind of fear-mongering, conspiracy-driven thinking they put into the White House. Hopefully that will never happen again.
Powell files lawsuit in Arizona:
https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.azd.1255923/gov.uscourts.azd.1255923.1.0.pdf
From the lawsuit:
The craziness grows.
That’s great, just throw away all the votes thereby telling millions of people their votes did not count. Insane.
JVL
Democrats stole the 1960 election. Nixon did beat Kennedy. Democrats have a longer history of vote fraud, particularly against black voters. Research the details of what brought an end to Reconstruction. Democrats tried to steal a presidential election and had plans to take the treasury by force.
Democrats have a long history of not caring about voters. Democrats turn a blind eye to election fraud in every election cycle, since they can’t win in most of the country any other way.
BobRyan: Democrats have a long history of not caring about voters. Democrats turn a blind eye to election fraud in every election cycle, since they can’t win in most of the country any other way.
Uh huh. Counting the 1960 US Presidential election up through the 2020 election there have been 8 Democratic victories and 8 Republican victories 2 of which were considered landslides. So when the Democrats win it’s because they steal the election but when, say, Nixon beat McGovern so badly (McGovern only ‘won’ one state) that’s perfectly legal? And if Nixon really did beat Kennedy then why didn’t he object to the election results at the time?
From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_United_States_presidential_election
It was a razor-thin victory to be sure. Losing Hawaii on a recount, too funny.
Again, why don’t those claiming fraud do their homework first?
Nixon suffered LESS.
Nixon had his faults but he supported the system. AND, later, was able to clearly win two elections one by a massive landslide.
JVL,
kindly observe that the media are proxies of the public at large. What was reported, as has been cited, simply are not votes as votes are inherently integers. Period.
That the media may go on to round these rational number values with non-zero fractional parts — a red flag in itself — to whole numbers compounds the problem, through enabling behaviour. The true news story lead at that point was, Dominion software reports an impossibility, fractional part votes.
Where, all Ortho managed to explain, is the immediate means by which something was substituted for actual counted and properly custodied votes then passed off as votes to the public.
Recall, the sum or difference of integers is per closure of the set, an integer. Once we see what is not an integer, per core defining characteristic of a vote as an act of declared choice towards a candidate that is countable, then what is put out cannot be a vote total, even if its magnitude is close to or the same as that of the correct integer. Mangoes are not guavas, even if the count is the same. O better yet, two dozen carambolas is not two dozen cups of water poured out. There is a difference of nature involved.
If this helps, AmHD 1a. A formal expression of preference for a candidate for office or for a proposed resolution of an issue, is their first definition.
In short, the appearance of fractions red flags a chain of properly scrutinised custody issue and it pointed to what has been further shown in the U/D to OP, the ability of relevant root, DNA software to do all sorts of manipulations to what is reported as vote totals.
The mathematical pivot of those operations is that the votes were turned into rational numbers [what standard four-rules arithmetic operations and derivatives work with in calculations], being typed as double precision variables, then were acted on algorithmically, as Benny Smith demonstrated.
It is significant to note your unresponsiveness to that demonstration.
All of this is yet another tip of an iceberg.
KF
JVL, there were Texas issues. The more material comparisons are 1876, 1824 and 1800. KF
PS: I repeat, the primary expression of the will of “We, the People” is the US Constitution. It defines the backstops in case of a failed election and Ms Powell’s suit is in accord with such. A tainted election is NOT, repeat NOT, the will of the people. It is a counterfeit foisted by the ruthless, a fraud. In this context, I again mention the moral duty challenge and how the destabilising industrial scale fraud-conducive element is now set by Ms Pelosi for HR1. That demonstrates intent and institutionalised push.
F/N: What the Marxists did the last time they were in charge, in retaliation to the Hungarian uprising of 1956:
A warning.
KF
WJM @ 442 –
They won’t. In part because the safe harbour date for choosing electors is Tuesday, and the electors get to, well, elect, on the 14th, in just over a week’s time. So there isn’t time to go through the lower courts before the whole thing becomes moot.
BO’H, steady as she goes at this point in a storm, on a line of drift to the sandbars of Syrtis. KF
We want to hear more from Bruce!
AC and JVL cited a reference from Politifact::,, “AC: Politifact provides a much different take on the story.”,,,, And Politifact bases its article on an article from ‘Lead Stories’,
And, (just like the ‘just so stories’ that are constantly put forth by Darwinists to make flimsy excuses for the empirical failures of their theory), the article from Lead Stories just does not hold water,,, as the following article states “the counter-narrative was ludicrous”,,,
Also see this recent development,
Wow. Mac is totally clueless. If the original numbers were wrong the recounts will obviously just confirm the original numbers. Recounts just find MISSING votes or phantom votes. They do not find illegal votes.
Sheryl Atikkison is trying to keep up with all that is happening on voter fraud allegations. Her latest is
https://sharylattkisson.com/2020/12/amid-a-new-lawsuit-filed-in-georgia-today-by-president-trump-allegations-of-widespread-irregularities-and-fraud-are-building/
We are a prisoner of our news sources unless one is willing to find out how various parts of the news spectrum is portraying the same story. Then one has to make up one’s own mind. There are no legitimate news organizations anymore.
As I predicted yesterday, poor ole Miss Ruby Freeman is in the process of ‘disappearing’ off the face of the earth,,,
How long until (Ruby and Shaye) completely disappear off the face of the earth into the nether world of Hunter Biden and Eric Coomer??? Or has she/they already been ‘disappeared’? Why are they hiding??? Obviously it is simply because they all know that what they did was wrong!
F/N: U/D8, Dec 5: Smoking gun? The midnight, unsupervised ballot counting in GA — though strictly, the count from its outset with scrutineers corralled, was invalid.
Jerry,
Ms Attkisson is a key independent voice. Her comment is clear:
Actually, the onward backstop is in January, but it is indeed the case that it is crunch time. I have doubts that many responsible officials are willing to take stringent measures, almost regardless of degree of evidence. Unfortunately, that points to onward chaos, polarisation and conflict. For sure it is no accident that the public at large are not being given a good backgrounder on the US Constitution’s backstops for tainted elections.
It is clear to me that in part you are dealing with an emerging oligarchy who want to rewrite the rules at will to suit themselves. Which is almost a definition of nihilistic will to power.
The storm is on and on line of drift the sandbars of Syrtis lie ahead.
KF
Kairosfocus: Recall, the sum or difference of integers is per closure of the set, an integer. Once we see what is not an integer, per core defining characteristic of a vote as an act of declared choice towards a candidate that is countable, then what is put out cannot be a vote total, even if its magnitude is close to or the same as that of the correct integer.
Your incredibly patronising attitude is noted. As is your bizarre fixation on some YouTuber’s explanation of numbers from a data stream that he himself misidentified until he was told he was wrong.
In 1961 the vote between Kennedy and Nixon was close, very close. The court cases trying to show fraud went on for months, well into 1961. There was no ‘insurrection’. There was no break-down of law and order. There was no rioting. Nixon, for all his faults, reacted like a gentleman and a statesman; he refused to contend the declared election results and asked others to stop as he did not want to cause a constitutional crisis. The system did its job and settled the matter, peacefully. And, eight years later Nixon won fairly and squarely. Plus, four years after that he won a massive landslide victory over McGovern.
Those of you who are supporting the notion of martial law or some kind of apocalyptic revolution are scary fools. IF you have the evidence then put it into legal play via the existing system. But that would mean having to respect the outcome of that process and, since you’re not willing to do that because you KNOW you are right, you cannot conceive of losing like civilised people. If it comes down to open conflict and military intervention it won’t be because there was (or wasn’t) election fraud, it will be because some people cannot live by the constitution they claim to be defending.
JVL, stop your ad hominems or leave this thread, please. KF
Losing like civilized people? You mean like the loser democrats who rioted and looted their cities this past summer? If the democrats are any example losing like civilized people, I will stay away from that. People like JVL definitely don’t act like civilized people. JVL’s hypocrisy is duly noted.
Kairosfocus: JVL, stop your ad hominems or leave this thread, please.
I’ll stop if you guys stop.
F/N: Having addressed the discipline issue, I will note on substance. That substance is simple: a vote is ingerently an integer and whatever is not an integer therefore is not a vote. The numbers communicated to the media have non-zero fractional parts and are calculated from what claims to be a vote total multiplied by a fraction. Thus, what is presented as a vote total per candidate is not in fact a proper chain of custody report of the sum of votes for said candidate as counted. This is the tip of an iceberg and the leaks from 2001 – 3 on on GEMS, DNA software for this field, show further troubling signs. The blackbox voting initiative were early whistleblowers on this and the work of a programmer they used has shown that something is wrong with the software. There is separate evidence down to a 2006 CNN news clip that shows issues on the provenance of said election management systems; such is embedded in the previous thread. Above, will be seen text on that and related issues. That said, such are secondary issues, the primary concern is that destabilising elements have been injected into the election system and are about to be deeply entrenched through HR1. All of these mark failure of the moral duty challenge. KF
PS: I again clip what objectors so studiously avoid addressing substantially and cogently, the moral duty challenge:
JVL, you will see that I have asked people to stop from abuse. You refuse to apologise by way of cross complaint. Please leave this thread. KF
KF, what ad hominems by JVL? I’ve read a few of his last posts where he has strongly, and accurately in my opinion, responded to the general theme of fraud that is being supported here, but I don’t see any obvious ad hominems. I certainly don’t see his posts are any more forceful than the general tenor of many of you, yourself, included. An ad hominem is when someone’s points are dismissed by pointing to some category of person they belong to, like being a Darwinist or a left-wing agitprop evolutionary materialist scientismist.
So in my opinion you’d be hard pressed to justify asking JVL to leave without sending a number of other posters with him.
Viola Lee: So in my opinion you’d be hard pressed to justify asking JVL to leave without sending a number of other posters with him.
I did use the term ‘fools’ and have been quite dismissive of many opinions voiced here. Compared to others I thought I was much less abrasive and rude but I guess rudeness is at least in part in the eye of the beholder without objectively defined categories. While (I don’t believe) Kairosfocus can actually ban someone from a thread I shall try harder to only criticise the beliefs and not the persons. I do think there is a double-standard here for this kind of thing but what can we say: it’s not our blog, we don’t make the rules. But I agree with you: when people ask for objective consideration of the evidence and well-mannered discussion but then violate those precepts left and right it is a bit galling.
I don’t know if you’re aware of The Skeptical Zone; a blog that was explicitly created by someone who was, at first, lauded for her genteelness but then later vilified for standing up to the moderators and subsequently banned. I don’t know if it’s still active but it’s interesting that people (including Dave Scot and ET (once or twice) in a previously incarnation) used to be banned from this forum at very high rates. Things have actually improved on that regard at least. I think Mapou was banned but came back recently . . . can’t remember his new handle. Mung sometimes sticks his head above the parapet to do his court jester thing but he’s been mostly absent. The one stalwart who has surprised me with his absence has been Upright BiPed. He(?) along with Bornagain77 and Kairosfocus are amongst the longest, loyalist contributors so it surprises me he’s been away. Perhaps he’s ill? Barry Arrington has also been largely MIA although he did offer a sort of an apology recently for his vast underestimate of the lethalness of COVID-19 on an old thread which then had the comments closed so, while I was going to thank him for the concession, no one could note the comment.
Hmmm, I wonder if VL’s sense of fair play, i.e. not censoring opposing viewpoints, extends to Main Stream Media, Facebook, and Twitter all ganging up and ruthlessly censoring opposing viewpoints? indeed, ganging up and ruthlessly censoring the truth itself?,,, i.e. Hunter Biden’s laptop for example!
And why should we respect opposing viewpoints when they don’t respect ours? i.e. Why should we not censor you, JVL, and all other opposing viewpoints, simply because that is what we want to do?
VL might rightly argue that it is simply good to do the right thing, even when others don’t do it, simply because it is good to always do the right thing even when others don’t do the right thing.
VL could even rightly argue that it is even more important to do the right thing when others don’t do the right thing since it will serve as a good example for those who are not doing the right thing.
In other words, VL could also rightly argue that it is good for a person to suffer injustice for a short time in the hope that those who failing to act justly could see the errors of their way, via a good example, and eventually start to act justly because they eventually realize that it is simply the right thing to do. ,,,
But from whence does VL derive his moral basis for holding that it is good to suffer injustice for a short time so that others might see the errors of their way and repent?
It certainly does not come the Darwinian worldview where it is held that all life arose via the weak dying and the strong surviving,,,
,,, Shoot, not only is that moral principle insufficient to explain why we ought to endure injustice for the greater good, letting the weak die and the strong survive is downright antithetical to the moral principle of enduring injustice for the greater good.
As Jordan Peterson noted,,,
No, that certainly is not where VL is deriving his moral basis to say it is not right to censor him!
So exactly where is VL deriving his moral basis to try to claim that it is not right for us to censor him or JVL, (or any of the others who are opposing us) ?
VL is, of course, appealing to the Christian moral ethic of the golden rule,
One final note,,,,
That opposing viewpoints were to be tolerated in America was the cultural norm in America for as long as I can remember,,. indeed the right to a free press is written into our constitution,,,
Sadly, with the erosion of Christian ethics by the secular humanism of the political left, and its war on Christianity in particular, a war that has been waged for at least the last 75 years, (which started the false doctrine of ‘separation of Church and State’, a false doctrine that was put forth in 1947 by Supreme Court justice Hugo Black who was a former KKK member),,,, that cultural norm of tolerating opposing viewpoints, a cultural norm that forms the very basis of our free press, is quickly becoming a thing of the past.
Frankly, as KF has warned about many times, if America does not stop the erosion of the Christian ethics that form the basis of our free press, indeed that forms the basis of our democratic republic, indeed if America does not repair much of the damage that has been done to the moral foundation of America by the secular left’s war on religion, then the America that we all fondly grew up, where differing viewpoints were not only tolerated but celebrated, will not long endure as the open and free society that we all fondly remember it to be, but America will inste