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The Reasonableness of God as World-root Being, the IS that grounds OUGHT and Cosmos-Architect

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The core challenge being addressed (as we respond to abuse of a critical thinking curriculum)  is the notion that belief in the reality of God is a culturally induced, poorly grounded commonplace notion. An easily dismissed cultural myth or prejudice, in short.

Let us remind ourselves of the curriculum content used by teachers in a district in Texas until protest led to removal of the focal question:

God_myth_sch_test

Fox26_God_myth_20pts

Having:

  • shown that such belief is deeply rooted in key, serious thought (also note vids 1: Kreeft, 2: Zacharias, 3: Craig, also 4: Stroebel on Jesus),
  • (exposing the flying spaghetti monster parody as strawman fallacy)
  • and noting (cf here in op and here as a comment)  how it underpins the moral fabric of governance for modern liberty and democracy by way of reference to the US DoI 1776 in context
  •  and having reminded one and all that lab coat clad evolutionary materialist scientism is self-referentially incoherent and so self-falsifying [as in, the shoe is on the other foot],

. . . we should now turn to the responsible reasonableness of ethical theism.

No, we are not here claiming certain proof of the reality of God that once dismissed can lead to an assumed atheistical default. Instead, ethical theism starts as a responsible worldview with substantial evidence and reasoning so that proper education will respect it as a serious option and will address the comparative difficulties challenge (cf. tip sheet) — factual adequacy, coherence (logical and dynamical) and explanatory adequacy — faced by all worldviews:

A summary of why we end up with foundations for our worldviews, whether or not we would phrase the matter that way}
A summary of why we end up with foundations for our worldviews, whether or not we would phrase the matter that way}

Just the opposite of the cynically dismissive one liner presented by the critical thinking curriculum, so called.

As a first point, we briefly reflect on modes of being and the significance of such for world-roots given functionally specific complex organisation, cosmological fine tuning and our patent staus as under moral governance as pointers.

First, an in-brief:

>>Our observed cosmos — the only actually, indisputably observed cosmos — is credibly contingent. That points beyond itself to adequate cause of a fine tuned cosmos set to a locally deeply isolated operating point for C-Chemistry, aqueous medium, cell based terrestrial planet life. Life which BTW is based on coded information . . . language! right from the origin of cell based life . . . used in exquisitely intricate cybernetic systems that run the smart gated, encapsulated metabolic automata with integral code using von Neumann kinematic self replicators we find in cells. That in the end through even multiverse speculations, points to necessary, intelligent, awesomely powerful being as source. Design by a creator beyond the cosmos. One intent on life like ours. Mix in moral government and we are at the inherent reasonableness of a creator capable of grounding ought. Just one serious candidate, the inherently good Creator God, a necessary and maximally great being, worthy of our loyalty and the reasonable service of doing the good in accord with our evident nature. No, we are not talking about poorly supported popular notions here, but of course, when the evolutionary materialist lab coat clad magisterium controls and censors what gets into the curricula they can make it seem that way.>>

Now, we can think of possible vs impossible beings (you, me, a unicorn vs a square circle). The latter cannot be in any possible world as the cluster of core requirements (a) squarishness and (b) circularity stand in mutual contradiction and cannot all be actualised in one and the same thing at once under the same circumstances.

The former, can exist in at least one possible world, whether or not they are actual in this world (the only generally observed actualised world).

Also, try to imagine a world in which the truth asserted in: 2 + 3 = 5 is false or was not so then came into being at some point or can cease to be so. No such world is possible, this proposition is a necessary though abstract being. That is, it is so anchored to the roots and framework for a world to be actualised that it will be so in any possible world:

|| + ||| –> |||||

(Where we can start with the set that collects nothing and compose the natural numbers etc, {} –>0, {0}–> 1, {0, 1} –> 2, etc.)

This allows us to understand that of possible beings some are contingent, some are necessary. Contingent beings will exist in some actualisable worlds but not in all such possible worlds. Necessary beings, by contrast are foundational to any actualisable world existing.

Contingent beings, then, depend on what I have termed external, on/off enabling causal factors (strictly, dynamically necessary causal factors), much like a fire depends for its beginning and sustained existence on heat, fuel, oxidiser and an un-interfered- with combustion chain reaction:

Fire_tetrahedronPublic domainBy contrast, necessary beings do not have that sort of dynamical, causal dependence.

This has a major consequence, especially when we see that we live in a world that per the big bang and fine tuning considerations, is credibly contingent and in fact credibly finitely old, typically 13.7 or 13.8 BY being a conventional estimate:

The Big Bang timeline -- a world with a beginning
The Big Bang timeline — a world with a beginning

Typically the talk is of a singularity and perhaps a fluctuation. But the point is, finitely remote, changeable, composite, contingent. Caused, requiring a sufficient cluster of underlying dynamical antecedents/ factors that include at minimum all necessary factors.

But there is more.

For by contrast with being we can have non-being, a genuine nothing (and no a suggested quantum foam with fluctuations, etc, is not a genuine nothing, regardless of clever talking points).

vNSR
Illustrating a von Neumann, kinematic self replicator with integral universal computer

Non-being can have no causal capabilities, and so if there ever were a genuine nothing, such would forever obtain. That is, if a world now is (and a credibly contingent one) it points to something that always was, a necessary, independent, world-root being dynamically sufficient to account for the world that now is. A world with evident beginning at a finitely remote point, with evident fine tuning that sets its physics to a locally deeply isolated operating point that sets it up for C-chemistry, aqueous medium terrestrial planet, cell based life. Life, that is based on smart gated, encapsulated metabolic automata that enfold an integral code using — language! communication and control systems! — von Neumann kinematic self replication facility. A class of machines we know how to conceptualise and initially analyse, but not at all how to design and implement. Worse, where we are conscious, intelligent, morally governed life forms in this cosmos that require a bridge between IS and OUGHT.

Already, we see that a very reasonable worldview stance would be that the cosmos comes from a necessary, highly intelligent, designing world root being who is a necessary being, and thus would be immaterial and intelligent, so minded. Even, through a multiverse speculation (which is spectacularly in violation of requisites of empirical substantiation and the multiplication of entities without clear necessity).

Moreover, as one scans the debates on worldviews foundations across the centuries, it is clear that there is just one credible place for there to be an IS that also grounds OUGHT in a reasonable way: the roots of reality.

There is just one serious candidate to be such a necessary being — flying spaghetti monsters et al (as we already saw) need not apply, they are patently contingent and are material — namely,

THE GOD OF ETHICAL THEISM: the inherently good and wise Creator God, a necessary and maximally great being; one worthy of our loyalty and of the reasonable and responsible service of doing the good in accordance with our evident nature and circumstances.

That is, ethical theism is a reasonable, and intellectually viable worldview stance. It is also a descriptive term for the underlying worldview of the Judaeo-Christian Faith and theological tradition that is core to our civilisation and the foundation of that tradition, God. Where the God of Scripture says of himself c 1460 BC, I AM THAT I AM, i.e. necessary, eternal being, something not understood as to significance until many centuries later.

And in that context, it is the Christian tradition that this same God has come among us, as Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ who fulfills the prophecies in that scriptural tradition and now sends forth his apostles and disciples into the world who are to be as wise as serpents but harmless as doves:

the_stone_of Daniels_vision

cornerstone-foundn_of_the_kingdomseven_mountains_fulness_vision

So, let us ponder Stroebel on Jesus:

[vimeo 17960119]

And, let us ponder Peter as he faced death by sentence of Kangaroo Court on a false accusation of treasonous arson against Rome, c 65 AD:

2 Peter 1:13 I think it right, as long as I am in this body,[h] to stir you up by way of reminder, 14 since I know that the putting off of my body will be soon, as our Lord Jesus Christ made clear to me. 15 And I will make every effort so that after my departure you may be able at any time to recall these things.

16 For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty . . . .

19 And we have the prophetic word more fully confirmed, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts, 20 knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone’s own interpretation. 21 For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

In short, contrary to the false impression created by the authors of the curriculum in Texas, ethical theism in the Judaeo-Christian tradition is a reasonable faith and worldview stance, one to be treated with respect rather than their patent disdain.

And, of course, this post is open for responsible discussion. END

Comments
KF: "GE, subjectivist morality boils down to might and manipulation make right, as Plato long since aptly highlighted." Then Plato knew nothing about subjective morality. Maybe he should have thought a little more about it. JJ:"It is what follows from materialistic evolution." Which only highlights your lack of understanding of evolution. JJ: "Morality is not about personal interests because personal interests and morality do not always converge, A person could benefit from stealing from somebody else, People can benefit from exploiting others, ie slave labor, that does not make it morally right. We have people profiting from exploitation ie: sweat shop workers." Sounds a lot like how humans have acted for all of recorded history. Where's that much vaunted objective morality?George Edwards
December 12, 2015
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It was purely subjective.
So in essence, there's no good or bad. Just what IS. ISIS killing people is absolutely ok because "it is in [their] best interest to [kill] other people [they consider infidels]". Same goes for Hitler and Pol Pot and Stalin and racists and rapists and pedophiles and bullies and burglars and mass murderers and every other normally considered "bad" thing you can think of. Why? Because "it is in [their] best interest to [do what they feel they should do to] other people". At least you're being consistent with evodelusionary Atheopathy. That utopia half-baked Darwinists blab about on the internet is looking real good.Vy
December 12, 2015
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@77"Again, who is saying this? Certainly not me." It is what follows from materialistic evolution. @76 "Morality is something that we develop as a necessity to live in society." If morality is not objective then why would anyone care about how their behavior affects others? "I didn’t instinctively know that it is not in my best interest not to hit someone or steal from someone" Morality is not about personal interests because personal interests and morality do not always converge, A person could benefit from stealing from somebody else, People can benefit from exploiting others, ie slave labor, that does not make it morally right. We have people profiting from exploitation ie: sweat shop workers. In fact, it is perfectly consistent with the dog eat dog idea of survival of the fittest.Jack Jones
December 12, 2015
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GE, subjectivist morality boils down to might and manipulation make right, as Plato long since aptly highlighted. And it has nothing to do with persuading you, it has to do with warrant and your duty of care to hold what is warranted. But then, as a subjectivist you do not assent to duties beyond what you feel you like or must conform to out of fear. Oops. Case proved. KFkairosfocus
December 12, 2015
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JN: "How could you be held morally responsible if your behavior was determined?" Again, who is saying this? Certainly not me.George Edwards
December 12, 2015
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KF, the discussion about whether morality is objective or subjective has been had many times here and elsewhere, and I have not read anything to convince me that morality is anything but subjective. You keep referring to your IS and OUGHT as if they were some kind of proof of objective morality, but they aren't. Morality is something that we develop as a necessity to live in society. If I conclude that it is in my best interest to live amongst other people, then it is also in my best interest to ensure that I don't do anything to jeopardize that. I didn't instinctively know that it is not in my best interest not to hit someone or steal from someone. This is something that most of us learn at an early age, either by parental force or through our own experiences (usually a combination of both. But, in every cohort there will be a small number that never learn this. And, as long as this number remain small, society will muddle along. There was nothing objective about this. It was purely subjective.George Edwards
December 12, 2015
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GE you challenged on self evidence and reasoning including specifically proof. Also on morality and the self-referential incoherence of materialism and the need for responsible rational freedom. You also asked who challenges such. People like Crick and Provine as well as many more. My comment immediately follows yours. KFkairosfocus
December 12, 2015
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"Why not?" You are asking me why determined machines would not be responsible for their actions? How could you be held morally responsible if your behavior was determined?Jack Jones
December 12, 2015
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Sorry KF, what are you responding to?George Edwards
December 12, 2015
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GE, just to start, you cannot reason without key self evident truths such as the first principles of right reason. Starting with the law of identity [A is itself, which partitions the world: W = {A | ~A} . . . ] and its direct corollaries non contradiction and excluded middle. As to morality, ask yourself how IS and OUGHT are jointly founded and what it means for us to be under moral obligation and government. Just, to begin with. KF PS: Here is William Provine at Darwin Day U Tenn 1998:
Naturalistic evolution has clear consequences that Charles Darwin understood perfectly. 1) No gods worth having exist; 2) no life after death exists; 3) no ultimate foundation for ethics exists; 4) no ultimate meaning in life exists; and 5) human free will is nonexistent . . . . The first 4 implications are so obvious to modern naturalistic evolutionists that I will spend little time defending them. Human free will, however, is another matter. Even evolutionists have trouble swallowing that implication. I will argue that humans are locally determined systems that make choices. They have, however, no free will [--> without responsible freedom, mind, reason and morality alike disintegrate into grand delusion, hence self-referential incoherence and self-refutation. But that does not make such fallacies any less effective in the hands of clever manipulators] . . . [1998 Darwin Day Keynote Address, U of Tenn -- and yes, that is significant i/l/o the Scopes Trial, 1925]
Also, here is Sir Francis Crick in his 1994 The Astonishing Hypothesis:
. . . that "You", your joys and your sorrows, your memories and your ambitions, your sense of personal identity and free will, are in fact no more than the behaviour of a vast assembly of nerve cells and their associated molecules. As Lewis Carroll's Alice might have phrased: "You're nothing but a pack of neurons." This hypothesis is so alien to the ideas of most people today that it can truly be called astonishing.
Though I have already linked and invited reading to see more on why I wrote as above, let me clip Haldane to amplify just a tad:
"It seems to me immensely unlikely that mind is a mere by-product of matter. For if my mental processes are determined wholly by the motions of atoms in my brain I have no reason to suppose that my beliefs are true. They may be sound chemically, but that does not make them sound logically. And hence I have no reason for supposing my brain to be composed of atoms. In order to escape from this necessity of sawing away the branch on which I am sitting, so to speak, I am compelled to believe that mind is not wholly conditioned by matter.” [["When I am dead," in Possible Worlds: And Other Essays [1927], Chatto and Windus: London, 1932, reprint, p.209.]
kairosfocus
December 12, 2015
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Mike: "P.S. If nothing is self-evident, nothing can be proved." It is not self evident that when I mix red and yellow I get orange. But I can prove it. It is not self evident that when I combust oxygen and hyrogen that I will get shared. But I can prove it. KF: "without acknowledging responsible rational freedo..." Who's denying it? KF: "...the life of the mind collapses into absurdity..." There you go again, dismissing any disagreement as an absurdity. You can do better. With regard to the rest of your OP, you link to your own blog. Sorry, I refuse to read OPs on blogs that do not permit comments. If you can summarize it in a couple paragraphs, I will respond to you here. JJ: "Good points KF, If humans are nothing more than meat machines then they could not be morally accountable for their actions." Why not?George Edwards
December 12, 2015
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@67 You make good points MikeJack Jones
December 12, 2015
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@kairosfocus You threw out feelings when making what is good and evil into fact. And you help create monsters by failing, and indeed objecting, to teaching kids how choosing works. Protest teaching the difference between fact and opinion, and create an environment where people's emotions are not acknowledged, for the reason emotions cannot be measured.mohammadnursyamsu
December 12, 2015
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@66 Good points KF, If humans are nothing more than meat machines then they could not be morally accountable for their actions.Jack Jones
December 12, 2015
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George Edwards: Do not kill, do not steal, etc. But universality does not make it self evident. It just makes it universal. Firstly, they are not universal. 4% of the human population are sociopaths. They go by a different fundamental standard. Secondly, so what you're giving us is your private morality based on subjective feelings due to genes, upbringing, and what-not, that happens to agree with what you consider to be a majority view (at this particular time in history.) Okie dokie. Duly noted. You might want to inform ISIS of that. Apparently, they didn't get the universal memo. By the way, do you consider all unborn humans worthy of the benefit of that "universal" do-not-kill notion? So, why exactly, shouldn't I get a sword and cut your head off if it benefits me, or if I simply feel like it? P.S. If nothing is self-evident, nothing can be proved.mike1962
December 12, 2015
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GE, without acknowledging responsible rational freedom the life of the mind collapses into absurdity, including even the process of argument you indulge. I suggest a reading of the 101 here in context as a step to broadening your thought. And I add, this is the general context where evolutionary materialistic scientism also falls into self-referential incoherence, cf the 101 here, paying particular attention to Crick vs Johnson, Haldane, Pearcey and Reppert -- the audio may help too. Nope I am not making naked, empty assertions; I am summarising in a context that traces through the OP to much else. KFkairosfocus
December 12, 2015
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@64 " I consider rules that societies arrive at by mutual acceptance in order to be part of the society. If they are internally inconsistent, the society will not survive, as has occurred repeatedly throughout human history. " If moral right and wrong are not objective then why should anybody care about whether society survives or not?. On your chance evolutionary world view then there is no line of demarcation between humans and organisms like rats and cockroaches etc and yet you are not concerned about their continued survival as if you recognize that man is in a different category which is not consistent with your evolutionary position. Chance evolutionists are not consistent.Jack Jones
December 12, 2015
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KF, claiming that something, if denied, is patently absurd, is not an argument. It is an assertion. Assertions themselves are patently absurd without supporting argument and/or evidence. What you consider "self evident" I consider rules that societies arrive at by mutual acceptance in order to be part of the society. If they are internally inconsistent, the society will not survive, as has occurred repeatedly throughout human history. For example, do you consider slavery to be self evidently wrong? Not just wrong, but self evidently wrong. The bible doesn't say so. And many human societies employed it. So, it obviously isn't self evidently wrong. But I still think that it is wrong. But I believe this because of my parents teachings and subsequent observations and experiences. There is nothing self evident about the equality of races. This belief requires work to become established within a person, and far more effort for it to be established in society. There are many things that are almost universal. Do not kill, do not steal, etc. But universality does not make it self evident. It just makes it universal.George Edwards
December 12, 2015
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MN, it is a fact that were you to leap from the 100th floor of the burning WTC on Sept 11, 2001, you would die, and at that time it was a fact that if you stayed inside you would burn. Many chose to jump rather than burn. Now, I challenge you to conclude from such facts that those who faced them had no feelings about the matter, or that their feelings were inappropriate or contradictory to the facts. KFkairosfocus
December 12, 2015
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Seversky and GE: The issue of self evidence is not whether it is obvious to oneself, or whether one may deny or dismiss the point, but the patent consequences of that. Even, if one proceeds to the denial of those consequences or imagines s/he has the power or cleverness to avoid facing the consequences. First, a self evident truth (such as fundamental rights to life and person) is so, and is seen as necessarily so on understanding what is being claimed, what is at stake, on pain of patent absurdity -- typically manifest in gross logical, moral or dynamical incoherence -- on attempted denial. As the Angelic Doctor long ago highlighted, the understanding is not necessarily a given. The willingness to acknowledge consequences and to be led by them is another that is not a given. Beyond mere primary ignorance and want of insight there is such a thing as a darkened understanding, a reprobate mind with an utterly calloused conscience and a habitual addiction to wrong and evil. This is where demonic evil epitomised by a Nero or a Hitler enters. The direct point is that a young child has no might nor eloquence and if caught and gagged cannot even scream for help. (This was the horrific fate of the boy I specifically have in mind.) The woman or girl from a freshly conquered community is in much the same boat. But such patently share with us the common grace of responsibly free, rational life and nature from conception to the span of life that can flourish if properly nurtured. Hence the moral governance that pivots on recognising fundamental equality and worth of neighbour as self. The denial or willful neglect of this ends in the absurdities of might and manipulation make 'right.' The consequences of which speak for themselves. Long ago now, in Ch 2 Sec 5 of his 2nd treatise on civil govt, Locke rightly cited "the judicious Hooker" from Ecclesiastical Polity, 1594+:
. . . if I cannot but wish to receive good, even as much at every man's hands, as any man can wish unto his own soul, how should I look to have any part of my desire herein satisfied, unless myself be careful to satisfy the like desire which is undoubtedly in other men . . . my desire, therefore, to be loved of my equals in Nature, as much as possible may be, imposeth upon me a natural duty of bearing to themward fully the like affection. From which relation of equality between ourselves and them that are as ourselves, what several rules and canons natural reason hath drawn for direction of life no man is ignorant . . . [[Hooker then continues, citing Aristotle in The Nicomachean Ethics, Bk 8:] as namely, That because we would take no harm, we must therefore do none; That since we would not be in any thing extremely dealt with, we must ourselves avoid all extremity in our dealings; That from all violence and wrong we are utterly to abstain, with such-like . . . ] [[Eccl. Polity,preface, Bk I, "ch." 8, p.80]
If we are sane as a civilisation, we will rise up to defend the powerless in the face of those who would prey on them. If. In our increasingly insane day and age, that is not a given. Hence, a significant slice of my pessimism about our future. KFkairosfocus
December 12, 2015
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That you state it as fact means you have no emotions about it. It means you look at the law and look at the act, and correctly observe that such act is penalized in the law. Justice requires spirit, it is not an automated process. And you help create the environment where people become monsters through rejection of subjectivity. And I would gladly forgive such monsters, but never forgive the intellectuals who from their armchairs conspire to destroy people's emotional life by ruling out subjectivity.mohammadnursyamsu
December 12, 2015
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kairosfocus @ 58
MN, it is a fact that it is self evidently true that to kidnap, bind and gag, torture and sodomise or rape a young child then stifle or strangle it for pleasure is evil, a privation, frustration and perversion of the good.
I agree, and I’m sure everyone else here does as well. But let’s look at a different example To me, abducting the women of a captive population and distributing them amongst the victorious soldiers as concubines, as ISIS has done with the Yazidi women, is self-evidently evil. Yet, by the version of Islam espoused by ISIS, it is apparently a necessary and virtuous act. I need hardly point out that it also has parallels in Old Testament accounts describing how the Israelites did exactly the same, with the approval and encouragement of their God. So, tell me, is that self-evidently good or evil?Seversky
December 12, 2015
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KF: "MN, it is a fact that it is self evidently true that to kidnap, bind and gag, torture and sodomise or rape a young child then stifle or strangle it for pleasure is evil,..." I agree with everything except the "self evident" part. Based on my upbringing, and subsequent observations and experience, I have concluded that what you describe is evil. I have also come to the belief that killing the innocent is evil. I have also arrived at the belief that instructing/pressuring/counceling someone to kill an innocent person is evil. I have arrived at the conclusion that raping women is evil. I think that we both agree that the acts I described are evil. Do you agree? We can start discussing the self evident part if we can agree on what is evil.George Edwards
December 12, 2015
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MN, it is a fact that it is self evidently true that to kidnap, bind and gag, torture and sodomise or rape a young child then stifle or strangle it for pleasure is evil, a privation, frustration and perversion of the good. Now, reduce that to that is a matter of opinion and see where it lands you apart from might and manipulation make 'right.' KFkairosfocus
December 12, 2015
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The people who conceive of good and evil as fact, belong to the group of people who reject subjectivity. And whether they attach the label creationist, christian, materialist or whatever else to their beliefs is inconsequential, because the issue is most defining of their beliefs. When people accept subjectivity is valid, then because of accepting the freedom of opinion, then there is a genuine wide variety of beliefs among that group of people.mohammadnursyamsu
December 12, 2015
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MN, since I am here, I will simply say that you are beginning to sound like a parody. Enough substance has been given, and it is indeed the general view that Creationism is based on scriptures. Indeed that is precisely one of the criticisms of design theory by Creationist advocates: it is not tied to scripture. So, while I am aware of general creationism, I am also recognising the implications of that critique. KFkairosfocus
December 12, 2015
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Accidental cross postkairosfocus
December 12, 2015
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You are hung up on the name creationism, that you cannot conceive of it in general terms, that you conceive of it only in terms of scripture. We already have knowledge about how things are chosen, in daily life we talk in terms of choosing things continuously. And it is obviously required for a basic education to teach kids how things are chosen And included in that is the distinction between fact and opinion, objectivity and subjectivity, and creationism in general. You would see that is all just straightforward common sense, if you understood how choosing works more precisely. And by precisely I mean to understand the logic of it as it is in common discourse, not precisely as in exactly knowing how the decisionmaking in the brain is organized per neurons or whatever. I don't care about creation science or intelligent design science either. This creationism vs evolution controversy is soley about acceptance of the validity of subjectivity, the science is secondary. And you failed to support acceptance of the validity of subjectivity, as in teaching the difference between fact and opinion more precisely.mohammadnursyamsu
December 12, 2015
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MN, general form Creationism is strongly linked to scriptural traditions and to particular schools of thought on their interpretation. Science and science education should be free of ideological imposition, and should proceed on fair assessment of the epistemological limitations of inductive investigations, laying out strengths, weaknesses, issues, evidence, gaps, points of test and potential falsification, inherent provisionality, etc. The design inference on empirically tested sign shown to be reliable, is reasonable by these standards and has a longstanding status independent of religious traditions; it is not "creationism in a cheap tuxedo." Further to all this, in the relevant jurisdiction, it is deemed illegal to attempt to teach creationism in public schools; the particular context of the thread is such a school district. My critique of what was done to insert the notion that the existence of God is a culturally stamped, ill supported commonplace notion, does not pivot on inserting Creationism into schools. What is needed -- and which you consistently dodge to the point that your talking points inadvertently serve the agenda of those who wish to project the notion that design thought is stealth creationism, etc -- is to go to worldview grounding issues and address these. Which I have done and which no objector has been able to cogently overthrow. G'day. KF PS: No one has any well grounded theory of how responsibly free and rational choices made by humans are impressed into the brain-body system. Indeed, there is an attempt to reduce such to activity within the system considered as an electrochemical computing entity; e.g. Crick's Astonishing Hypothesis. However, this runs into self-referential incoherence. Again, you seem to have failed to consider the issues linked to say the Smith Model. (Cf here for more.)kairosfocus
December 12, 2015
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I apply the rule that in science theories are stated in their general form. So with creationism I just mean creation in general, and not creation as it is in scripture. Intelligent design then just applies to a sophisticated way of choosing, while creationism covers all choosing. And creationism in this general form has 2 categories of creator and creation (what chooses and what is chosen), and opinion applies to the creator category, and fact applies to the creation category. So that is how by teaching the difference between fact and opinion, which is already established in education, one can teach creationism. The straightforward approach is the default approach. So teaching creationism, is simply to teach about how anything is chosen in the universe. I expect that your idea about how choosing works is wrong, because the concept is highly vulnerable to corruption. It could only be that you have false concept of how choosing works, saying the things you do, that nobody knows how choosing works empirically and so on.mohammadnursyamsu
December 12, 2015
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