Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

Failure of the “compensation argument” and implausibility of evolution

Categories
Biophysics
Intelligent Design
Share
Facebook
Twitter/X
LinkedIn
Flipboard
Print
Email

Granville Sewell and Daniel Styer have a thing in common: both wrote an article with the same title “Entropy and evolution”. But they reach opposite conclusions on a fundamental question: Styer says that the evolutionist “compensation argument” (henceforth “ECA”) is ok, Sewell says it isn’t. Here I briefly explain why I fully agree with Granville. The ECA is an argument that tries to resolve the problems the 2nd law of statistical mechanics (henceforth 2nd_law_SM) posits to unguided evolution. I adopt Styer’s article as ECA archetype because he also offers calculations, which make clearer its failure.

The 2nd_law_SM as problem for evolution.

The 2nd_law_SM says that a isolated system goes toward its more probable macrostates. In this diagram the arrow represents the 2nd_law_SM rightward trend/direction:

organization … improbable_states … systems ====>>> probable_states

Sewell says:

“The second law is all about using probability at the microscopic level to predict macroscopic change. […] This statement of the second law, or at least of the fundamental principle behind the second law, is the one that should be applied to evolution.”

The physical evolution of a isolated system passes spontaneously through macrostates with increasing values of probability until arriving to equilibrium (the most probable macrostate). Since organization is highly improbable a corollary of the 2nd_law_SM is that isolated systems don’t self-organize. That is the opposite of what biological evolution pretends.

See the picture:

cs1

Styer’s ECA.

Since the 2nd_law_SM applies to isolated systems the ECA says: the Earth E is not a isolated system, then its entropy can decrease thanks to an entropy increase (compensation) in the surroundings S (wrt to the energy coming from the Sun). Unfortunately to consider open the systems is useless, because, as Sewell puts it:

“If an increase in order is extremely improbable when a system is closed, it is still extremely improbable when the system is open, unless something is entering which makes it not extremely improbable.”

Here is how Styer applies the ECA to show that “evolution is consistent with the 2nd law”.
Suppose that, due to evolution, each individual organism is 1000 times more improbable that the corresponding individual was 100 years ago (Emory Bunn says 1000 times is incorrect, it should be 10^25 times, but this is a detail). If Wi is the number of microstates consistent with the specification of an initial organism I 100 years ago, and Wf is the number of microstates consistent with the specification of today’s improved and less probable organism F, then

Wf = Wi / 1000

At this point he uses Boltzmann’s formula:

S = k * ln (W)

where S = entropy, W = number of microstates, k = 1.38 x 10^-23 joules/degrees, ln = logarithm.

Then he calculates the entropy change over 100 years, and finally the entropy decrease per second:

Sf – Si = -3.02 x 10^-30 joules/degrees

By considering all individuals of all species he gets the change in entropy of the biosphere each second: -302 joules/degrees. Since he knows that the Earth’s physical entropy throughput (due to energy from the Sun) each second is: 420 x 10^12 joules/degrees he concludes: “at a minimum the Earth is bathed in about one trillion times the amount of entropy flux required to support the rate of evolution assumed here”, then evolution is largely consistent with the 2nd law.

The problem in Styer’s argument (and in general in the ECA).

Although it could seem an innocent issue of measure units the introduction of the Boltzmann’s formula with k = 1.38 x 10^-23 joules/degrees in this context is a conceptual error. With such formula the ECA has transformed a difficult problem of probability (in connection with the arise of ultra-complex organized systems) into a simple issue of energy (“joule” is unit of energy, work, or amount of heat). This assumes a priori that energy is able to organize organisms from sparse atoms. But such assumption is totally gratuitous and unproved. That energy can do that is exactly what the ECA should prove in the first place. So Styer’s ECA begs the question.

Similarly Andy McIntosh (cited by Sewell) says:

Both Styer and Bunn calculate by slightly different routes a statistical upper bound on the total entropy reduction necessary to ‘achieve’ life on earth. This is then compared to the total entropy received by the Earth for a given period of time. However, all these authors are making the same assumption—viz. that all one needs is sufficient energy flow into a [non-isolated] system and this will be the means of increasing the probability of life developing in complexity and new machinery evolving. But as stated earlier this begs the question…

The Boltzmann’s formula in the ECA, with its introduction of joules of energy, establishes a bridge between probabilities and the joules coming from the Sun. Unfortunately this link is unsubstantiated here because no one has proved that joules cause biological organization. On the contrary, in my previous post “The illusion of organizing energy” I explained why any kind of energy per se cannot create organization in principle. To greater reason, thermal energy is unable to the task. In fact, heat is the more degraded and disordered kind of energy, the one with maximum entropy. So the ECA would contain also an internal contradiction: by importing entropy in E one decreases entropy in E!

The problem of Boltzmann’s formula, as used in the ECA, is then “to buy” probability bonus with energy “money”. Sewell expresses the same concept with different words:

The compensation argument is predicated on the idea […] that the universal currency for entropy is thermal entropy.

That conversion / compensation is not allowed if one hasn’t proved at the outset a direct causation role of energy in producing the effect, biological organization, which is in the opposite direction of the 2nd_law_SM rightward arrow (extreme left on the above diagram). In a sense the ECA conflates two different planes. This wrong conflation is like to say that a roulette placed inside a refrigerated room can easily output 1 million “black” in a row because its entropy is decreased compared to the outside.

Note that evolution doesn’t imply a single small deviation from the trend, quite differently it implies countless highly improbable processes happened continually in countless organisms during billion years. Who claims that evolution doesn’t violate the 2nd_law_SM, would doubt a violation if countless tornados always turned rubble into houses, cars and computers for billion years? Sewell asks (backward tornado is the metaphor he uses more). In conclusion Roger Caillois is right: “Clausius and Darwin cannot both be right.”

Implausibility of evolution.

Styer’s paper is also an opportunity to see the problem of evolution from a probabilistic viewpoint. You will note the huge difference of difficulty of the probabilistic scenario compared to the above enthusiastic thermal entropy scenario, with potentially 1,000,000,000,000 times evolution!
In Appendix #2 he proposes a problem for students: “How much improved and less probable would each organism be, relative to its (possibly single-celled) ancestor at the beginning of the Cambrian explosion? (Answer: 10 raised to the 1.8 x 10^22 times)”. Call this monster number “a”, Wi = the initial microstates, Wf = the final microstates, W = the total microstates. According to Styer’s answer (which is correct as calculation) we have:

Wf = Wi / a

The probability of the initial macrostate is Wi / W. The probability of the final macrostate is Wf / W. Suppose Wf = 1, then Wi is = a. W must be equal or greater a otherwise (Wi / W) would be greater than 1 (impossible). Therefore the probability to occur of the final macrostate is:

(Wf / W) equal or less (1 / a)

This is the probability of evolution of a single individual organism in the Cambrian:

1 on 10 raised to the 1.8 x 10^22

a number with more than 10^22 digits (10 trillion billion digits). This miraculous event had to occur 10^18 times, for each of other organisms.

Dembski’s “universal probability bound” is:

1 / 10^150

1 on a number with “only” 150 digits. Therefore evolution is far beyond the plausibility threshold. In conclusion: the ECA fails to prove that “evolution is consistent with the 2nd law”, and we have also a proof of the implausibility of evolution based on probability.

Some could object: “you cannot have both ways, if the ECA is wrong then Appendix #2 is wrong too, because it uses the same method, then the evolution probability is not correct”.
Answer: the method is biased toward evolution both in ECA and in Appendix #2. This means the evolution probability is even worse than that, and the implausibility of evolution holds to greater reason.

Comments
Oops. Forgot the citation. Z: Seeds evolved from spores. Runcaria exhibits intermediate features. Gerrienne et al., Runcaria, a middle devonian seed plant precursor, Science 2004.Zachriel
April 9, 2015
April
04
Apr
9
09
2015
12:28 PM
12
12
28
PM
PST
Joe: What makes an oak an oak, Piotr? A name is just a label. There is a clade consisting of closely related tree species (about 600) which we label "oaks". Any clade is defined by its common innovations. In the case of oaks the main morphological innovations (modifications of the ancestral state) are single pistillate flowers and "valveless" cupules (not splitting into sections, as in chestnuts or beeches), only partly encasing the fruit. Andre: Nice story! What came first the seed or the tree? Did it just emerge? Which one? Let's phrase it differently: the seed or the plant? (not all flowering plants are trees, but they all produce seeds). Well, as you can easily guess, they developed together, since the life cycle involving mature plants, flowers, fruits and seeds is as old as flowering plants themselves. Its precursor was a less elaborate cycle, like that of the modern gymnosperms (for example conifers), in which seeds were also produced, so seeds are older than flowering plants (though not as old as plants in general). But I haven't got that far yet, so let's not digress.Piotr
April 9, 2015
April
04
Apr
9
09
2015
12:09 PM
12
12
09
PM
PST
Andre: What came first the seed or the tree? Seeds evolved from spores. Runcaria exhibits intermediate features. Silver Asiatic: While other organisms were moving around to find nutrition and reproduction opportunities, evolution caused trees to stay in one spot so they supposedly could out-compete organisms that could move to get nutrition. Trees are plants. The food comes to them.Zachriel
April 9, 2015
April
04
Apr
9
09
2015
12:06 PM
12
12
06
PM
PST
While other organisms were moving around to find nutrition and reproduction opportunities, evolution caused trees to stay in one spot so they supposedly could out-compete organisms that could move to get nutrition. It's a good story.Silver Asiatic
April 9, 2015
April
04
Apr
9
09
2015
11:53 AM
11
11
53
AM
PST
Piotr Also if the tree was first how did it know how to make a seed? If the seed was first how did it know how and where to store the information for it to become a tree? When it germenated did it follow these very specific instructions or did it randomly do its own thing? You know in some unguided way? Where did the input, encoder, medium and decoder emerge from? How? I have so many questions for this because I want to know things..... Imagine that! A blind purposeless cosmic accident wanting to know things, what a coincidence!Andre
April 9, 2015
April
04
Apr
9
09
2015
11:39 AM
11
11
39
AM
PST
Piotr Nice story! What came first the seed or the tree? Did it just emerge? Which one?Andre
April 9, 2015
April
04
Apr
9
09
2015
11:26 AM
11
11
26
AM
PST
Yes, Piotr, it is a story. What makes an oak an oak, Piotr?Joe
April 9, 2015
April
04
Apr
9
09
2015
11:22 AM
11
11
22
AM
PST
#543 Andre, #549 Joe, Oaks are close relatives of stone oaks, chestnut-trees and chinkapins, and beeches (more or less in this order). Together with a few less-known genera they form the family Fagaceae. All those trees can be traced back to a common ancestor. The family has an excellent fossil record since the early Palaeogene. The farther back in time you go, the more similar all these trees become; the same is true of their flowers and fruit. The common ancestor had nuts more similar to beechmast than to modern acorns or chestnuts, but essentially of the same type: a single large seed enclosed in a tough protective shell ("cupule"). The fruit was not an acorn, strictly speaking, but ancestral to acorns (while the cupule is the ancestor of the acorn cap), and the tree that bore it was not a true oak, but ancestral to oaks (and their kin). In the Late Cretaceous we have fossils of trees (Protofagacea, Antiquacupula) meeting that description (and also of their flowers, fruits, and cupules). They show a combinantion of features found today in Fagaceae and in related families such as Nothofagaceae (southern beeches). A one-seeded fruit with a hard encasing is a common motif in the order Fagales which contains the families mentioned so far as well a number of other trees or shrubs (e.g. birches, hornbeams, hazels, alders, hickories, and sheoaks). It may have fancy variants: the seeds may be tiny and the encasing winged, so that it can be carried by the wind, or many seeds may be gathered into a cone-like "fruiting body". These, however, are later developments. The known Cretaceous fruits are small, simple, unspecialised, and nut-like. So when you get back to the mid Cretaceous, when the order probably originated, you have trees and single-seeded fruits somewhat resembling their descendants 100 million years later, though you probably wouldn't recognise them as proto-oaks and proto-acorns. Can you follow the story so far?Piotr
April 9, 2015
April
04
Apr
9
09
2015
11:18 AM
11
11
18
AM
PST
CJYman, lol, my apologies. contact (at) complexity cafe (dot) (com)Upright BiPed
April 9, 2015
April
04
Apr
9
09
2015
09:42 AM
9
09
42
AM
PST
Piotr:
Oaks have evolved from earlier life-forms over a few billion years.
That's the propaganda, anyway. Everyone is still waiting for evidence to support it.Joe
April 9, 2015
April
04
Apr
9
09
2015
09:26 AM
9
09
26
AM
PST
Upright Biped, My email does not seem to have gotten through to you. Forgive my being dense, but I don't think I interpreted your cryptic reference to your email address correctly.CJYman
April 9, 2015
April
04
Apr
9
09
2015
09:08 AM
9
09
08
AM
PST
REC Pathetic. If you think to play the divide-et-impera card about Sewell and me, I tell you just from the outset that it doesn't work. Granville is more elaborate and of course more autorative than me, and I use few simple words, anyway the substance of the ID argument based on 2nd_law_SM is the same. Last but not least, Granville is one of the most intellectually honest and courageous person I know, and a dear friend.niwrad
April 8, 2015
April
04
Apr
8
08
2015
10:32 AM
10
10
32
AM
PST
"phoenix/keiths works so hard (even at two sites at the same time) because he understands that Sewell’s ID argument is lethal for evolution" I'm not sure Sewell's argument an Niwrad's are the same at this point. In fact, they seem mutually exclusive, except for a distaste of evolution.REC
April 8, 2015
April
04
Apr
8
08
2015
09:35 AM
9
09
35
AM
PST
niwrad: Hailstorm and oak tree are two NOT comparable things. In thermodynamics, they can both be considered heat machines. niwrad: Physics explains the conditions and the natural forces causing hailstorm. Work leads to what would otherwise be improbable from a thermodynamic standpoint, whether hailstorm or oak tree. niwrad: On the contrary, physics does NOT explain what causes the formation of an oak tree seed from random molecules. The primary mechanism is photosynthesis. niwrad: There is more, physics has a law stating general bias toward probability, while the spontaneous formation of the oak seed from sparse molecules is ultra-improbable. It's improbable as a chance arrangement of microstates, but it is not improbable given the appropriate conditions. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3d/Acorns_falling_onto_the_ground.jpgZachriel
April 8, 2015
April
04
Apr
8
08
2015
09:27 AM
9
09
27
AM
PST
Piotr, Thank goodness he can't post here. I'm an agnostic regarding these issues , still making my mind up. I posted a letter here a while back about his shenanigans and anyone else it applied to. I was tired of seeing them. I'm for some kind of censorship if that involves the removal of playground taunts and refusal to engage in conversation. He had a penchant for hijacking topics and insisting people answer his questions. ie : " yadda yadda yadda, not going to engage, yadda yadda... I didn't answer your question but answer mine! NOW! You coward! You scared? Chicken!" Hasta la vista baby!ENich
April 8, 2015
April
04
Apr
8
08
2015
08:25 AM
8
08
25
AM
PST
Piotr Turtles all the way down hey..... somewhere in evolutionary fairytale stories you will have to answer the question how did nothing conspire molecules to make a seed.... What came first the oak or the seed? Put out how it's done or be done with your just so stories.Andre
April 8, 2015
April
04
Apr
8
08
2015
08:04 AM
8
08
04
AM
PST
#540 niwrad,
the spontaneous formation of the oak seed from sparse molecules is ultra-improbable
Absolutely. Oaks have evolved from earlier life-forms over a few billion years. No oak seed has ever been formed out of sparse molecules in a magic puff of smoke (whatever some creationists might think).Piotr
April 8, 2015
April
04
Apr
8
08
2015
05:47 AM
5
05
47
AM
PST
This is mostly for CJYman: Phoenix/KeithS can no longer post here. Anyone who is interested in discussing this topic without censorship getting in the way, is welcome to visit TSZ: http://theskepticalzone.com/wp/?p=27154&cpage=5#comment-60355Piotr
April 8, 2015
April
04
Apr
8
08
2015
05:37 AM
5
05
37
AM
PST
Zachriel No. Hailstorm and oak tree are two NOT comparable things. Physics explains the conditions and the natural forces causing hailstorm. On the contrary, physics does NOT explain what causes the formation of an oak tree seed from random molecules. There is more, physics has a law stating general bias toward probability, while the spontaneous formation of the oak seed from sparse molecules is ultra-improbable. That is exactly the actual topic.niwrad
April 8, 2015
April
04
Apr
8
08
2015
04:43 AM
4
04
43
AM
PST
niwrad: Given some conditions, hail, as snowflakes, is not improbable, rather almost certain. And given some conditions, an oak tree is not improbably, rather almost certain. However, as a chance arrangement of thermodynamic microstates, both are improbable. It takes work to create a hailstone or an oak tree.Zachriel
April 8, 2015
April
04
Apr
8
08
2015
04:29 AM
4
04
29
AM
PST
Zachriel, FSCO/I is readily observable per Wicken wiring diagram functional organisation; and is thus quantifiable on reasonable metrics keyed to observed function and length of a string of Y/N, structured Q's per Kolmogorov complexity. That, was put on the table as far back as Orgel in 1973. More than good enough for govt work, as can be seen from say any number of CAD drawing files routinely used in engineering praxis. Once the set of possible configs exceeds 2^500 to 2^1,000 depending on scope of available atomic resources. [E.g., the 10^57 atom 10^17 s scope Sol sys is our effective cosmos for chem interactions unless we develop a viable inter-stellar navigation technology.] The attempted dismissive objection fails, and does so in a way that patently reflects steeping in deep misunderstandings, systematic distortion and deep hostility that ironically reflect the strength of FSCO/I as a strong sign of design. KFkairosfocus
April 8, 2015
April
04
Apr
8
08
2015
04:29 AM
4
04
29
AM
PST
Zachriel You have abandobed snowflakes and cite hail, but the issue doesn't change. Given some conditions, hail, as snowflakes, is not improbable, rather almost certain. In fact it happened countless times worldwide. What is really highly improbable is that hailstorm forms functioning mechanic watches entirely made of ice. (This is somewhat a winter version of Paley's watch -- patent pending :) )niwrad
April 8, 2015
April
04
Apr
8
08
2015
04:09 AM
4
04
09
AM
PST
kairosfocus: hail formation or the like is not the spontaneous origin of a refrigerator as a heat pump with cold storage subsystem exhibiting abundant FSCO/I There's no unambiguous measure of FSCO/I, but hail is certainly formed through a process of refrigeration, i.e. a heat pump.Zachriel
April 8, 2015
April
04
Apr
8
08
2015
04:01 AM
4
04
01
AM
PST
Zachriel, hail formation or the like is not the spontaneous origin of a refrigerator as a heat pump with cold storage subsystem exhibiting abundant FSCO/I; cf here: http://www.central-air-conditioner-and-refrigeration.com/basic-refrigeration-cycle.html . That you would try to make such a comparison shows deep misunderstandings. Please, think again. KFkairosfocus
April 8, 2015
April
04
Apr
8
08
2015
03:48 AM
3
03
48
AM
PST
CJYman: First, it is pro-compensation in the fact that compensation is required for dS less than 0. This is something that everyone here seems to agree with. A region can exhibit reduced thermodynamic entropy as long as it exports thermodynamic entropy to the environment. CJYman: The ID argument is anti-compensation in the sense that it is against the idea that compensation by merely opening up a system to heat flow can change the direction of all probabilistic processes. No, not *all* probabilistic processes. Nevertheless, it can and does result in regional reductions in thermodynamic entropy.Zachriel
April 8, 2015
April
04
Apr
8
08
2015
03:45 AM
3
03
45
AM
PST
kairosfocus: These two tiers of process exhaust waste heat and mass, typically, thus having exactly the sort of relevant compensation that fits with 2LOT. In particular by manipulating phase changes and linked temperatures, it manages to pump heat out of a cold storage unit to a reservoir at a higher temperature, the ambient atmosphere. Natural refrigerator: http://www.ashevillenow.com/files/picture/hail_pellets_in_summer67.jpg niwrad: There is a law (2nd_law_SM) establishing a bias of isolated systems toward probable states. Probable meaning the chance distribution of thermodynamic microstates. niwrad: Also if systems are open the problem remains because energy flux cannot cause ultra-improbable states to happen. Happens all the time. http://www.ashevillenow.com/files/picture/hail_pellets_in_summer67.jpg Hail is ultra-improbable based on the chance arrangement of microstates. It takes work to make a hailstone. "In particular by manipulating phase changes and linked temperatures, it manages to pump heat out of a cold storage unit to a reservoir at a higher temperature, the ambient atmosphere."Zachriel
April 8, 2015
April
04
Apr
8
08
2015
03:33 AM
3
03
33
AM
PST
Mung: Entropy is indeed a state function, one that reflects the lack of information on particular ultramicroscopic state, given what one knows at lab level. But when highly specific micro level configurations reflecting functional organisation then make themselves visible, that changes everything. For, we now have a much tighter ultramicroscopic state constraint relative to what would otherwise obtain, were that functionality signal not accessible to us. This then brings to bear a config space analysis -- here momentum issues are of lesser concern -- where we see W_scattered >> W_clumped >>W_functionally configured Apply S = k* ln W (or use more complex forms), and the shift in entropy on clumping and then configuring to functionally organised form, is readily evident. Where, once such a form exists, flash, there is a new signal (especially, for cell based life). State, has been very particularly defined, once such a green flash is visible. Entropy, relevant to that configuration, has been restricted to a low value. And, while we may discuss much larger variabilities associated with thermal agitation, once this green flash is there, we have a known case of deeply isolated islands of function in a very large config space. And, thermal agitation and associated phenomena cannot credibly account for such via blind needle in haystack search given space scope to available search resources ratio. Sampling one straw to a cubical haystack comparable to the thickness of our galaxy, is not a practicable method to find deeply isolated islands of function. Thus, we see why the underlying micro analysis inextricably connected to 2LOT, tells us a lot about why irrelevant mass or energy flows do not give rise to credible compensation of that local, green flash signal drop in S. KF PS: As a simple comparison, consider parts of a 6500 reel, that at first could be scattered at random all over the factory on the Morrum river, Sweden. Then, consider them clumped at random in a bag on a workbench and shaken up as long as you please, then, assembled per wiring diagram. Green flash: functional working reel.kairosfocus
April 8, 2015
April
04
Apr
8
08
2015
03:29 AM
3
03
29
AM
PST
Niwrad
because he understands that Sewell’s ID argument is lethal for evolution.
It is lethal for his version of unguided evolution that's why he's having a hissy fit.Andre
April 8, 2015
April
04
Apr
8
08
2015
03:09 AM
3
03
09
AM
PST
phoenix/keiths works so hard (even at two sites at the same time) because he understands that Sewell's ID argument is lethal for evolution. scordova tries to convince him that there is no menace but evidently phoenix/keiths doesn't trust him and remains worried. There is a law (2nd_law_SM) establishing a bias of isolated systems toward probable states. Also if systems are open the problem remains because energy flux cannot cause ultra-improbable states to happen. (Otherwise e.g. casinos should place roulettes and poker tables in thermostatized dark rooms.) Bio-organization entails ultra-improbable states (evolutionist Styer calculates 10-^(1.8 x 10^22) the chance to evolve of a single Cambrian organism). Total unguided evolution would imply billion systems during billion years continually going countless times toward ultra-improbable states of the above sort. Practically a fully-reverted "SM_law_2nd" during all Earth's age. Evolution would make physics a soft science, not an hard science. It is obvious why evolutionist phoenix/keiths fears Sewell's argument so much.niwrad
April 8, 2015
April
04
Apr
8
08
2015
01:36 AM
1
01
36
AM
PST
Salvador:
It should be instructive to again repeat the most widely accepted statement of the 2nd Law:
Why? For instructive purposes, let's quote Wikipedia:
The second law of thermodynamics states that in a natural thermodynamic process, there is an increase in the sum of the entropies of the participating systems.
Statistical thermodynamics, classical or quantum, explains the law.
The second law has been expressed in many ways. The second law of thermodynamics may be expressed in many specific ways, the most prominent classical statements being the statement by Rudolf Clausius (1854), the statement by Lord Kelvin (1851), and the statement in axiomatic thermodynamics by Constantin Carathéodory (1909). These statements cast the law in general physical terms citing the impossibility of certain processes. The Clausius and the Kelvin statements have been shown to be equivalent.
It is impossible, by means of inanimate material agency, to derive mechanical effect from any portion of matter by cooling it below the temperature of the coldest of the surrounding objects.
Mung
April 7, 2015
April
04
Apr
7
07
2015
10:24 PM
10
10
24
PM
PST
1 2 3 4 5 6 22

Leave a Reply