Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

Reality: The Wall You Smack Into When You’re Wrong

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I’ve been in trial the last couple of weeks, and I am just now coming up for air.  I see the debate has continued in my absence.  Alas, yet another confirmation (as if another were needed) that I am not indispensible.  Thank you to all of our posters, commenters and lurkers, who continue to make this site one of the most robust stops on the internet vis-à-vis the intelligent design debate.

 We live in a post-modern world, and the defense position at trial last week brought that dreary fact forcefully to mind. 

Without going into detail, the trial was about a contract my clients (the plaintiffs) signed in 1996.  The defendant received the benefits of his bargain and was content for 11 years.  Then, when the contract turned to my clients’ benefit in 2007, the defendant refused to pay.  Instead, he hired one of the largest law firms in the world (over 600 lawyers) to get him out of the contract, and these last several months his team of lawyers and paralegals (six strong at last count) have submitted literally hundreds of documents to the court in a feverish effort to convince the judge that – though the defendant said nothing for 11 years – the contract was unenforceable from the beginning. 

Well, that is not entirely accurate.  I should say this is the position on which the defendant finally settled after various other theories failed.  At first he claimed the contract was valid, but my clients’ calculations were wrong, and they owed him money.  When that didn’t work he claimed the entire transaction was a sham, and he knew it from the beginning.  When it came to light he had certified the transaction to the IRS in 1997, his position changed yet again.  Now, his position was that he thought the transaction was valid in the beginning, but after he reviewed the documents in connection with this case he learned he had been hoodwinked.  The transaction was always a sham, but he just hadn’t known it all these years. 

 In golf a “mulligan” is the friendly practice of letting a player get a “do over” if his tee shot goes awry.  I suppose the defendant’s lawyers thought I was going to give them a mulligan and not mention at trial the varied and inconsistent positions they had taken.  But over a million dollars was at stake, so I decided I would pass on the mulligan, and when I had the defendant on the stand the cross went something like this:

 Q.  So if I understand what you’re saying, you didn’t know there was any irregularity with the transaction when you certified it to the IRS in 1996.

 A.  That’s right.

 Q.  In fact, you’re telling me that you never knew there was the slightest problem with this transaction until you reviewed the documents produced in connection with this case.

 A.  That’s right.  I never knew.

 Q.  I have just placed in front of you the sworn affidavit you signed last September.  Do you see paragraph three there?  It says, “I believe [here I raised my voice for effect], AND HAVE ALWAYS BELIEVED, the transaction was a sham.”  My question for you is this:  Just now you testified under oath that you NEVER believed there was anything wrong with the transaction.  But last September you swore out an affidavit in which you said you ALWAYS believed the transaction was a sham.  Help me out here.  How can both of those sworn statements be true at the same time?

 This, of course, is the trial lawyer’s dream scene.  He has caught the other party making statements that simply cannot be reconciled.  Both may be false (which is the case here), but there is no way both can be true.  Needless to say, my clients are happy today.

What does this have to do with post-modernism?  Just this.  Over the last few months I have often wondered if the other side really believed they would be able to get away with just “making it up.”  That question was answered by an incident that occurred on the second day of trial.  My paralegal was in the back of a crowded courthouse elevator.  One of the defendant’s lawyers and his paralegal were in the front, and apparently they did not know my paralegal was there, because she overheard them talking about the case.  The lawyer said, “They are presenting their version of reality and we are presenting a competing version of reality.  The case will come down to which version the judge finds compelling.” 

I never thought of myself as “presenting a version of reality.”  My goal was to just get the facts out about what happened, because I have always believed that if the judge knew what actually happened we would win.  It turns out that I am hopelessly old-fashioned about these things.  In our post-modern world there are no immutable “facts” for the judge to know.  There are only competing “narratives,” and she will make her decision based upon which narrative she finds most “compelling.”  And in developing his “narrative,” a lawyer need feel no obligation to quaint outdated notions such as “what actually happened.”  There is no “what actually happened,” because reality is not fixed, objective and immutable.  No, reality is malleable, subjective and constructed. 

I like to say that reality is the practical wall you smack into when you’re theory is wrong.  And thankfully trials are nothing if not practical endeavors.  No matter what a post-modernist might say about “all reality is subjectively constructed,” the truth of the matter is they all look both ways before crossing the street.  And it turns out that judges really do try to determine “what actually happened,” and another name for “presenting a competing version of reality” is “lying under oath,” which judges tend to frown on (as the defendant found out to his dismay).

I hope our opponents who post comments on this site will keep this story in mind.  I hope they think about it the next time they are tempted to write in response to one of the arguments an ID proponent makes, “Well, that’s your reality.  My reality is different.”  It is such a hackneyed, trite and dreary expression.  Worse, it is based on a self-evidently false premise, and, as the defendant found out, it will get you in trouble if you take it seriously.

Comments
Upright BiPed (169):
DNA is an encoded abstraction of the organism.
Hardly. Reproduction is transmission of a cell, and not just transmission of DNA. The mitochondria of a cell, essential to survival, are not encoded in the DNA. They are transmitted directly in reproduction. In multicellular, sexually reproducing organisms, differential deposition of chemicals in the ovum largely determines the body plan of the offspring. Transcripts of DNA regulate the deposition, but there's not an abstract representation of the body plan in the DNA.
DNA uses the semiotic rules and context of language in order to store and transfer data
DNA does not use anything. It is more-or-less chemically inert. That is what makes it good for...
DNA has an unquestionable purpose.
It serves as a durable store of data. It is used, not using. The majority of transcripts are not translated, so your linguistic model is irrelevant to much of what goes on in the genetic regulatory network (a misnomer). Perhaps there was no translation at all in an early stage of life.
DNA is undeniably the plan of an organism
The falsity of this is particularly evident in bacteria reproducing by fission. A bacterium grows big, and splits into two smaller bacteria. There's no making according to a "plan" in the DNA.Sooner Emeritus
May 13, 2010
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BiPed, Bias? Read your own "evidence":
The semiotic arrangement of cytosine-thymine-adenine in DNA results in the addition of Leucine during protein synthesis. [emphasis added]
Now that's what I'd call a theory-laden observation. People working in machine learning know, as a result of mathematical analysis, that inductive learning requires bias. Scientific learning is predominately inductive, and the most famous of its biases is the principle of parsimony (Occam's razor): "Entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily." If we interpret communal observations -- what all observers agree to have seen -- as directly and simply as possible -- in a way that leads to consensus, rather than endless poking of one another in the chest -- what we may say of some observed entities is that they look as though people might have made them. We, together, have seen people make things, but we have never seen an immaterial intelligence make anything. "Entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily." The question of whether something that looks human-made was in fact made by something human-like (i.e., something with a material body) is in the purview of public science. Note that I have not ruled out the possibility of eventually explaining humans in terms of more than material. But no communally observed maker is without a material body. Here's a question I genuinely want you to answer: How did the notion of "unembodied intelligence" make its way into ID theory? I say again that there's no way to understand ID theory without reference to its origin. Clearly a science in which humans are conscious and creative would not satisfy IDers. Their "renewal" of science is a failure unless it makes room for the incorporeal to act in nature. Explaining nature in terms of incorporeal cause clearly gains us nothing in prediction and control. A number of IDers want science to "tell the truth" about the incorporeal, however. If you are one of them, please explain how to build consensus among scientists, who have found it quite useful to resist multiplying entities unnecessarily, that such things exist. (Poking people in the chest is not consensus-building.)Sooner Emeritus
May 13, 2010
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bornagain77 @191,
Hey toronto I have a novel idea, let’s replace it with the truth. starting with: i.e. all beneficial adaptations of a sub-species away from a parent species will always come at a cost of the optimal functional information that was originally encoded in the parent species genome.
Why don't we replace it with an ID theory based on this: bornagain77 @184, "In science consensus is irrelevant. What is relevant is reproducible results."Toronto
May 13, 2010
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toronto states, "If (neo-Darwinian) evolution is removed as a subject of study, something must replace it." Hey toronto I have a novel idea, let's replace it with the truth. starting with: i.e. all beneficial adaptations of a sub-species away from a parent species will always come at a cost of the optimal functional information that was originally encoded in the parent species genome.bornagain77
May 13, 2010
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Sooner, the only place I have heard the use of fitness function is in this video around the 7:00 minute mark: Mathematically Defining Functional Information In Molecular Biology - Kirk Durston - video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/3995236 Durston states that the fitness function itself falls under the Szostak equation and if it exceeds the functional information capable to be generated by Inat (UPB) then that it also must be made up by Intelligence. Or as Abel states (paraphrase) "there is a monstrous ravine that divides the material processes of the universe from the functional information we find encoded within life."bornagain77
May 13, 2010
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[Toronto]—”Since it is design work and we humans design things all the time, it should be easy for you to work backwards and tell us.” [StephenB]What makes you think that? Can you work backwards and tell us how an ancient hunter constructed his spear?
Yes, it's done all the time. Pottery, metal-working, architecture, boat-building, etc., are all studied to find out how ancient cultures functioned.Toronto
May 13, 2010
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StephenB @186,
[Torornto]—”Please show us step by step, how the designer put together the first life form.” [StephenB] ID doesn’t claim to know. This is news to you?
But students need to know. That's why we're in the lab trying to determine processes so that we have something to teach in a classroom. While I'm not claiming you need to know everything absolutely from the get-go, you have to have some form of framework to build on. If you don't work at trying to find out, what will you teach them? If evolution is removed as a subject of study, something must replace it. You can't leave a void so you have no choice but to go in a lab and find the processes that resulted in what you call designed life. Until you have a process ready to teach, we have the only available option.Toronto
May 13, 2010
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bornagain77 [and Clive],
you sound like you have some pretty impressive credentials...
The "Emeritus" in my handle is ironic self-deprecation. My output was low due to medical problems. But I had my moments. Fun fact to know and tell: Almost all fitness functions, as mathematical entities, are algorithmically random. It is meaningless to speak of designing an algorithm for optimization of an algorithmically random function f -- there's no regularity in f to exploit in design. Furthermore, almost all algorithms for sequential optimization of f correspond to decision trees that are algorithmically random, and there's no useful sense in which they are designed. Thus it is doubly fallacious to infer merely from the high performance of an algorithm in optimizing f that it was designed for f.Sooner Emeritus
May 13, 2010
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---Toronto: "Our side is actually in the lab trying to scientifically determine something you claim you already know without performing any activity at all." You have it exactly backwards. It is your side that claims to know the final answer [life wasn't designed] having crafted a non-scientific methodology [methodological naturalism] that rules out the alternate answer. ID hypothesizes that life was LIKELY designed and establishes paradigms to measure that likelihood; Darwinism rules that life was DEFINITELY NOT designed and defines orgins science accordingly. ---Richard Dawkins: "Biology is the study of complicated things that give the appearance of having been designed for a purpose." See how that works? So, tell me then, what is the point of the Darwinist's research in origins science, when the results have aleady been decided apriori. ---"Please show us step by step, how the designer put together the first life form." ID doesn't claim to know. This is news to you? ---"Since it is design work and we humans design things all the time, it should be easy for you to work backwards and tell us." What makes you think that? Can you work backwards and tell us how an ancient hunter constructed his spear? Since you said that such an answer is easy to obtain, you should have no difficulty providing a step by step process, extracting that information by studying the effects of the design. I await your answer to that "easy" question.StephenB
May 13, 2010
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bornagain77 @184,
In science consensus is irrelevant. What is relevant is reproducible results.
Where are your reproducible results that prove that life is designed? According to you, if ID is science, you should have some.Toronto
May 13, 2010
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Cabal states: "How can the concerted effort of thousands upon thousands of serious, top-notch, qualified and merited scientists over 150 years default to a pseudo-scientific hodgepodge?" Dang cabal that sounds quite impressive.... What to do??? What to do??? Hey I know Cabal can you or any of those thousands of scientists falsify Abel's null hypothesis for information generation. The Capabilities of Chaos and Complexity: David L. Abel - Null Hypothesis For Information Generation - 2009 To focus the scientific community’s attention on its own tendencies toward overzealous metaphysical imagination bordering on “wish-fulfillment,” we propose the following readily falsifiable null hypothesis, and invite rigorous experimental attempts to falsify it: "Physicodynamics cannot spontaneously traverse The Cybernetic Cut: physicodynamics alone cannot organize itself into formally functional systems requiring algorithmic optimization, computational halting, and circuit integration." A single exception of non trivial, unaided spontaneous optimization of formal function by truly natural process would falsify this null hypothesis. http://www.mdpi.com/1422-0067/10/1/247/pdf http://mdpi.com/1422-0067/10/1/247/ag Cabal, I think you may want to reevaluate your reliance on "consensus science" to try to establish a scientific point.,,,,,,,,,,, I want to pause here and talk about this notion of consensus, and the rise of what has been called consensus science. I regard consensus science as an extremely pernicious development that ought to be stopped cold in its tracks. Historically, the claim of consensus has been the first refuge of scoundrels; it is a way to avoid debate by claiming that the matter is already settled. Whenever you hear the consensus of scientists agrees on something or other, reach for your wallet, because you’re being had. Let’s be clear: The work of science has nothing whatever to do with consensus. Consensus is the business of politics. Science, on the contrary, requires only one investigator who happens to be right, which means that he or she has results that are verifiable by reference to the real world. In science consensus is irrelevant. What is relevant is reproducible results. The greatest scientists in history are great precisely because they broke with the consensus. There is no such thing as consensus science. If it’s consensus, it isn’t science. If it’s science, it isn’t consensus. Period… I would remind you to notice where the claim of consensus is invoked. Consensus is invoked only in situations where the science is not solid enough. Nobody says the consensus of scientists agrees that E=mc2. Nobody says the consensus is that the sun is 93 million miles away. It would never occur to anyone to speak that way. http://onlyaliberal.com/blog/2008/11/michael-crichton1942-2008-and-global-warming/bornagain77
May 13, 2010
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Quote: “Sagan’s argument is straightforward. We exist as material beings in a material world, all of whose phenomena are the consequences of physical relations among material entities. The vast majority of us do not have control of the intellectual apparatus needed to explain manifest reality in material terms, so in place of scientific (i.e., correct material) explanations, we substitute demons . . . .” It seems like Sagan has made himself to be something akin to a scientistic caricature. In light of that, I wanted to amend the assertion from the above quote to something that better reflects the reality we find ourselves in: “Sagan’s argument is straightforward. He assumes without proof that we exist solely as material beings in a solely material world, all of whose phenomena are the consequences of blind chance. The vast majority of us do not comport to such unwarranted and simplistic worldviews, believe that while the apparatus of modern science used to explain some physical phenomena - namely those that amenable to human investigation - is helpful, it does not and should not limit one’s inquiry to materialistic “explanations” alone as a means to gain a holistic understanding of reality. To impose such restrictions on mankind is the equivalent of placing the demon of materialism as the gatekeeper of knowledge. As such, in order to salvage science from such demon(s) we choose to not to reject the aspects of reality that cannot be subjected to the shackles of the materialistic demon. Thanks Carl!above
May 13, 2010
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@#Sooner # 91 First and foremost, I already made it clear to you that I am not here to argue for ID. So I don’t understand why you state: “You’ve neglected to speak at all to the notion that intelligence creates information for a purpose. That is crucial to ID, as Dembski and Marks acknowledge” Kairosfocus and other have made cases for that and as of yet I have not seen any of you refute them. Second, the only one here suffering from circularity of logic is you. This is evident in your following statement: “If you cut open an animal, you will no more find its intelligence than you will its love”. You can try and disguise your materialistic presuppositions all you like, but soon they will spill over into your language like they just did. If that statement implies what I think it does, that only materialistic constructs have ontological status then you are sadly mistaken. You play semantics with the engineer example all you like, but do you have the audacity to deny that engineers, scientists, humans in general are intelligent agents? If not, your argument fails. Finally, your false dichotomy in meaning relies on the Kantian notions of phenomenon and noumenon where you apparently chose to treat the latter as unreal. You still have not provided a single reasonable explanation why that is so [other than your materialistic assumptions] and more importantly, why your opinion, which assaults intelligence and reason, should even be taken seriously in the first place. It seems to me that you are begging the question here and anything that does not fall within the rigid and overly simplistic notions of materialism and scientism (not science) you deny.above
May 13, 2010
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Okay, thank you. I'll go back to lurking now.jon bailey good
May 13, 2010
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PPPS: The video top right this page, over at YouTube.kairosfocus
May 13, 2010
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PPS: A good listen. (The slides are also useful.)kairosfocus
May 13, 2010
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Cabal Re yr: let me try the ‘encoded abstraction.’ I know there are people much better equipped than me to address the subject, but I suspect that DNA is nowhere near being an encoded abstraction. If that was be the case, shouldn’t it be possible to work backwards from a developed organism to recover the source DNA? DNA of course has a cluster of abstractions in it: regulatory codes as well as the well known protein code. Also, there is additional bio information that goes above and beyond protein code segments, however the existence of this indubitable code is enough to make the point. (And it is a lot easier to read from DNA to the thousands of proteins involved in a complex life form, also we have not really fully decoded the regulatory components yet, though there are strong indicators of how significant they are.) But, a code is by definition a symbolic abstraction. UB's challenge holds good, and you need to address the code at work in this video, as transcribed to mRNA and translated with the aid of tRNA and Ribosomes, chaining proteins. GEM of TKI PS: Onlookers, if it were not so sad in the end, it would be almost funny to see just how hard the issue that DNA is a molecular memory storing at least one very specific functional code -- often [ht BA] with overlaps and even two way codes -- is being ducked or distorted.kairosfocus
May 13, 2010
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Cabal, If DNA is not an abstraction, then evolution as we know it would be impossible.Upright BiPed
May 13, 2010
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jbg, my book is an extension of a thesis, though it has not yet been edited or even finalized. In any case, it is more about communication theory in general and less about intelligent design in particular.StephenB
May 13, 2010
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Cabal states: "There isn’t any master plan, no top-down design. Things just happen because that’s the way the dice rolls all the way down." Oh Really???, and just where did the Boltzmann equation upon which the randomness of the dice is based come from???bornagain77
May 13, 2010
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Faded, Lets look and see what you ignore: DNA is an encoded abstraction of the organism. DNA uses the semiotic rules and context of language in order to store and transfer data DNA by virtue of the specified information it contains, solves issues of bio-function (the effect in question), it could not exist without it (ie. iron and oxygen do not transfer information to form rust) DNA has an unquestionable purpose. DNA is undeniably the plan of an organism
That somehow strikes me as a gross over-simplification. It would take more words than I am capable of assembling here as well as requiring more space than appropriate for a blog like this. But let me try the 'encoded abstraction.' I know there are people much better equipped than me to address the subject, but I suspect that DNA is nowhere near being an encoded abstraction. If that was be the case, shouldn't it be possible to work backwards from a developed organism to recover the source DNA? To me, the workings of DNA in creating a body seems more like a miracle: cells dividing and by means of communication with the surrounding cells happen to assume a role making them members of a functioning body. With each cell in succession itself becoming a member of the team, contributing in its own way to the process leading to a fully developed body. There isn't any master plan, no top-down design. Things just happen because that's the way the dice rolls all the way down. I hope an expert, and I tend to think that would have to be a so-called evolutionist, might care to comment on my interpretation of the function of DNA in the perspective of embryology. If what I've tried to say makes any sense.Cabal
May 13, 2010
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Mr. Biped, while I am pleased you got the joke on my username (I think Chuck Berry is highly underrated), I am confused by your question. I am no Darwinist and I am not sure why you are challenging me as if I was one. I am just an interested observer who unlurked to get a lead on another book on intelligent design.jon bailey good
May 13, 2010
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jonny-b-good, Can you point me to a publication that demonstrates chemcials forming a semiotic abstraction of themselves and instantiating that into a medium? Wow that would sure be interesting.Upright BiPed
May 13, 2010
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StephenB at 165: I mostly lurk on the sidelines in this controversy. But, I get awfully tired of the Darwinists claiming ID advocates don't ever publish anything. Uncommon Descent has to be the intellectual center of the ID universe because here, not only the contributors like Dr. Dembski are prolific authors, but many of the commenters, like you. I'd love to check out your book and place it up there on the shelf with Dr. Dembski and Dr. Behe's works. What is it's title?jon bailey good
May 13, 2010
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FG (and onlookers): Take a few moments to watch this video, then this one. (No lengthy reading, just a video or two.) After that, compare the definition you objected to, your remarks and UB's rebuttal. Then, come back to us without a priori materialist blinkers on. GEM of TKIkairosfocus
May 13, 2010
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Faded, Lets look and see what you ignore: DNA is an encoded abstraction of the organism. DNA uses the semiotic rules and context of language in order to store and transfer data DNA by virtue of the specified information it contains, solves issues of bio-function (the effect in question), it could not exist without it (ie. iron and oxygen do not transfer information to form rust) DNA has an unquestionable purpose. DNA is undeniably the plan of an organismUpright BiPed
May 13, 2010
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KF said: -------------------- I think you would profit by looking at the UD glossary’s defn on intelligence, a cite of wikipedia [i.e admission against interest by an ideologically materialist source]: “capacities to reason, to plan, to solve problems, to think abstractly, to comprehend ideas, to use language, and to learn.” ----------------------------- Fine, let's go with this. By this definition, to establish if the designer is intelligent we need to investigate the designer (not the product) and test if (s)he possesses these capacities. If so, hurrah, we raise our glasses and celebrate that we finally all agree. Mind you, we might actually be celebrating that the chess computer that produced the winning game is intelligent, but never mind that for now. But this is not what ID does at all! ID investigates an entity with an unknown causal history, and then proclaims that it detects intelligent design. Not because it tests the known designer against the properties from the definition, but only because 'it is the best inference'. In other words, the Wikepdia definition of intelligence has nothing to do whatsoever with ID as proposed on this blog. This, onlookers, is just bait and switch. fGfaded_Glory
May 13, 2010
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Clive Hayden @160, I didn't decide I was on a side at all, "your side" did.
Barry Arrington:Over the last few months I have often wondered if the other side really believed they would be able to get away with just “making it up.” kairosfocus:The evo mat advocates,... StephenB:When a Darwinist applies for a senior position as a researcher, he cannot reasonably say that he has accumulated 25 years of experience in the lab. He must say that he had one year’s experience 25 times. kairosfocus:So, it looks like the reality being smacked into by a priori darwinist evolutionary materialist ideologues...
Toronto
May 13, 2010
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Onlookers: If it were not so sad, the above desperate clinging to a patently failed paradigm for research on origins would be amusing. Simply observe the tip toeing around the already linked and excerpted summary from Robert Shapiro and Leslie Orgel -- at 149 above -- as the metabolism first and RNA/genes first schools of thought committed mutual destruction. That should tell you that what is driving the process is an a priori commitment to he sort of evolutionary materialism outlined by Lewontin, and which Plato skewered 2,300 years ago. Lewontin, NYRB 1997:
. . . It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door. [“Billions and Billions of Demons,” NYRB, January 9, 1997. Bold emphasis added.]
Plato, The Laws, Bk X, 360 BC:
Ath. . . . [[The avant garde philosophers and poets, c. 360 BC] say that fire and water, and earth and air [[i.e the classical "material" elements of the cosmos], all exist by nature and chance, and none of them by art, and that as to the bodies which come next in order-earth, and sun, and moon, and stars-they have been created by means of these absolutely inanimate existences. The elements are severally moved by chance and some inherent force according to certain affinities among them-of hot with cold, or of dry with moist, or of soft with hard, and according to all the other accidental admixtures of opposites which have been formed by necessity. After this fashion and in this manner the whole heaven has been created, and all that is in the heaven, as well as animals and all plants, and all the seasons come from these elements, not by the action of mind, as they say, or of any God, or from art, but as I was saying, by nature and chance only. [[In short, evolutionary materialism premised on chance plus necessity acting without intelligent guidance on primordial matter is hardly a new or a primarily "scientific" view!] . . . . [[Thus, they hold that t]he Gods exist not by nature, but by art, and by the laws of states, which are different in different places, according to the agreement of those who make them; and that the honourable is one thing by nature and another thing by law, and that the principles of justice have no existence at all in nature, but that mankind are always disputing about them and altering them; and that the alterations which are made by art and by law have no basis in nature, but are of authority for the moment and at the time at which they are made.- [[Relativism, too, is not new.] These, my friends, are the sayings of wise men, poets and prose writers, which find a way into the minds of youth. They are told by them that the highest right is might, and in this way the young fall into impieties, under the idea that the Gods are not such as the law bids them imagine; and hence arise factions, these philosophers inviting them to lead a true life according to nature, that is, to live in real dominion over others, and not in legal subjection to them.
Just think about the implications [and the echoes all around us as today's heirs of Alcibiades reach for an even achieve power . . . ],in light of Cornell history of biology prof William Provine's all too telling, utterly chilling remarks at Darwin Day 1998, University of Tennessee:
Naturalistic evolution has clear consequences that Charles Darwin understood perfectly. 1) No gods worth having exist; 2) no life after death exists; 3) no ultimate foundation for ethics exists; 4) no ultimate meaning in life exists; and 5) human free will is nonexistent. . . . . The first 4 implications are so obvious to modern naturalistic evolutionists that I will spend little time defending them. Human free will, however, is another matter. Even evolutionists have trouble swallowing that implication. I will argue that humans are locally determined systems that make choices. They have, however, no free will . . .
But of course, these conclusions are not the result of unfettered (but ethically and intellectually responsible) progressive pursuit of the truth about our universe absed on observation, analysis, modelling and free but respectful discussion among the informed. [Onlookers, observe how none of the evo mat advocates have dared attack this definition of science as it ought to be.] No, they are the result of a priori imposition of evolutionary materlalism as a censoring constraint on science, thought and policy more generally. So, maybe the much caricatured and despised former US Secretary of State, William Jennings Bryan has something to tell us from beyond the grave, in his much overlooked 1921 book, The Menace of Darwinism:
Darwinism leads to a denial of God. Nietzsche carried Darwinism to its logical conclusion and it made him the most extreme of anti-Christians . . . . As the [[First World] war [[of 1914 - 1918] progressed I [[Bryan was from 1913 - 1915 the 41st US Secretary of State, under President Wilson] became more and more impressed with the conviction that the German propa-ganda rested upon a materialistic foundation. I se-cured the writings of Nietzsche and found in them a defense, made in advance, of all the cruelties and atrocities practiced by the militarists of Germany. [[It didn't start with the Nazis!] Nietzsche tried to substitute the worship of the "Su-perman" for the worship of God. He not only re-jected the Creator, but he rejected all moral standards. He praised war and eulogized hatred because it led to war. He denounced sympathy and pity as attributes unworthy of man. He believed that the teachings of Christ made degenerates and, logical to the end, he regarded Democracy as the refuge of weaklings. He saw in man nothing but an animal and in that animal the highest virtue he recognized was "The Will to Power"—a will which should know no let or hin-drance, no restraint or limitation . . . . His philosophy, if it is worthy the name of philos-ophy, is the ripened fruit of Darwinism — and a tree is known by its fruit . . . . The corroding influence of Darwinism has spread as the doctrine has been increasingly accepted. In the American preface to "The Glass of Fashion" these words are to be found: "Darwinism not only justifies the sensualist at the trough and Fashion at her glass; it justifies Prussianism at the cannon's mouth and Bol-shevism at the prison-door. If Darwinism be true, if Mind is to be driven out of the universe and accident accepted as a sufficient cause for all the majesty and glory of physical nature, then there is no crime or vio-lence, however abominable in its circumstances and however cruel in its execution, which cannot be justi-fied by success, and no triviality, no absurdity of Fash-ion which deserves a censure: more — there is no act of disinterested love and tenderness, no deed of self- sac-rifice and mercy, no aspiration after beauty and excel-lence, for which a single reason can be adduced in logic." [[pp. 52 - 54. Emphases and explanatory parentheses added.]
Similarly, as he opened his innings, he raised the crucial policy question:
If [[atheists and agnostics] desire to teach that there is no God and therefore no Bible and no Christ, why do they not build their own col-leges and support them? Christians do not deny to atheists the right to dispute the existence of God or to agnostics the right to declare themselves without an opinion on the subject; Christians do not deny the right of atheists and agnostics to teach their views; Chris-tians would put all on the same level. The question in dispute is whether atheists and agnostics have a right to teach irreligion in public schools — whether teachers drawing salaries from the public treasury shall be permitted to undermine belief in God, the Bible, and Christ by teaching not scientific truth but unproven and unsupported guesses . . . [[ pp. 5 - 6. Emphases added.]
So, it looks like the reality being smacked into by a priori darwinist evolutionary materialist ideologues is a bit harsher and consequential for our civilisation than we might think. Do we really want to get into the out-of-control runaway train with them? GEM of TKI PS: Sooner et al, has it ever dawned on you that my coming back and spending a week or so testing your current state of rhetoric to back up your a priori evolutionary materialism in light of, say, what Plato or the author of Job had to say, and in light of the requisites of a von Neumann replicator in the heart of the cell and its observable mechanisms (onlookers, notice the utterly revealing silence in the face of the videos that have been linked multiple times . . . ), might have a specifically productive purpose? [Especially, as it is patently plain that you and your ilk have no cogent response to such on the merits but have yet again resorted to distractions, distortions and atmosphere-poisoning denigration?]kairosfocus
May 13, 2010
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---efren ts: "But, as a person who’s sole interaction with the scientific world is to criticize it from behind the skirt of moderation on a blog, you would do well to ponder your own activity vs accomplishment balance sheet." Nice try but I need no help from administrators to refute the arguments of my opponents. Your attempt to discredit those refutations by implying that I receive some special kind of special protection smacks of the usual sour grapes and wounded pride. On a related matter, you know nothing of my interaction with the scientific world, and your wild speculations about the extent of my accomplishments really does smack of desperation. I have written a book and developed a new theory in my own field. Can you say the same? In any case, I am amused when my opponents resort to personal attacks, so I am not like some other bloggers. It doesn't bother me at all. On the other hand, If you are sensitive about the fact that Darwinism has accomplished nothing of any lasting value in 150 years, you will just have to live with that reality. ---"And some folks spend large amounts of time commenting throughout the day on intelligent design blogs. Do you think their employer would be any less disturbed at the misuse of organization assets merely because it doesn’t involve images of naughty bits?" So you think that blogging on the UD website constitutes a moral and intellectual equivalent to wallowing around in pornography do you? I guess that would fit in with the Darwinist world view, so I shouldn't be surprised.StephenB
May 13, 2010
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