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What are the First Rules of Right Reason? Are They Negotiable? Do They Matter?

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About two weeks ago, I read a scientific report that challenged my perceptions about the relationship between philosophy and science. So much so, that it forced me to doubt some of my erstwhile convictions about the value of logic and prompted me to revise major elements of my global world view. As it turns out, an empirically-based study indicated, within a 1% margin of error, that there are more people in the city of Los Angeles than in the entire state of California. I would never have accepted this counter-intuitive claim had there been no evidence to support it.

At this point, my readers might wonder how I could be so pathologically gullible as to accept such an absurd proposition. Or, more likely, they will recognize my scenario as a playful exercise in misdirection that conveys an important point: No amount of evidence or appeal to the authority of science could ever invalidate a self-evident truth. The city of Los Angeles simply cannot have more people than the entire state of California. Any such claim would violate one of the first principles of right reason: A finite whole can never be less than any one of its parts. Drawing on that same principle, I can be equally certain that a man’s head cannot displace more water than his entire body or that our sun cannot weigh more than the solar system of which it is a part.

On reflection, we should be able to appreciate the significance of these examples and place them in the context of a broader principle: Evidence does not inform the rules of right reason; the rules of right reason inform evidence. That is because self-evident truths, the starting point from which all rational inquiry begins, provide the means by which all other truth claims, scientific or otherwise, must be evaluated. Accordingly, we don’t reason our way TO these principles; we reason our way FROM them. Evidence, at least of the scientific variety, cannot invalidate or pass judgment on them because evidence is the thing being validated and judged.

Among reason’s most authoritative judges, the Law of Identity, the Law of Non-Contradiction, and the Law of the Excluded middle reign supreme. Ontologically, a thing cannot be what it is and also be something else. Logically and psychologically, a proposition cannot be true and false at the same time and in the same sense. The thinking process begins with the understanding of what is and what cannot be. Without this constraint, that is, without the ability to rule things out, reasoned analysis and meaningful dialogue are impossible. One can say, “If A, then B”, only if everything except B is understood to be an impossible consequence of A.

Postmodernist skeptics often try to argue that these points apply only to our mental framework and the ways that we think about things. The careful reader will notice, though, that the aforementioned laws are both objectively and subjectively true. They apply to both the world as it is (ontology) and the world as we perceive it (epistemology). That is why we can differentiate between a sound argument, which is both internally consistent and consistent with truths found in the real world, and a valid argument, which may only meet the first condition. If one begins with a true premise about the real world and reasons perfectly, he will arrive at a true conclusion about the real world; if one begins with a false premise and reasons perfectly, he will arrive at a false conclusion. In terms of logic and causation, then, our mental models correspond with real world facts. There is no divide between them however passionately the skeptics might wish it to be so.

Among reason’s most pragmatic judges, the Law of Causality and the Principle of Sufficient Reason define the rational standards for all philosophical and scientific investigations. Everything must have a reason or cause for its existence and an explanation for why it undergoes change. Let’s consider a simple example of the former: Person A enters a room with person B and says, “Look, there is a red ball sitting on the table. I wonder how it got there.” Person B, amazed at the question, asks, “What do you mean, ‘how did it get there?’ Obviously, someone put it there.” This is, of course, the correct response. The red ball is, after all, contingent and finite; someone had to bring it into existence and put it in place. Now, let’s blow the ball up to the size of a house. Has the argument changed or lost any of its force? No. The only thing that has changed is the size of the ball. Now, blow the ball up to the size of the United States—now to the size of our Solar system—now to the size of the universe. Has the argument changed? No. Is the ball any less finite or less dependent on a cause? No. Only its size is different. Obviously, someone put it there.

Again, the careful reader will notice that the Law of Causality applies not only to those things that come into being but also those things that undergo change. In the latter context, the principle can be further simplified: A cause cannot give what it does not have to give. There is no reason, for example, to conduct an empirical investigation to negate or affirm the hypothesis that a gold bar could come from a gold sliver, or that a sand castle could come from a single grain. In either case, there is nothing in the cause that could produce the effect. Additional raw materials would have to be gathered by an outside agent and fashioned into a new product. No amount of evidence could override these metaphysical truths.

It often escapes the notice of professional cynics that reason’s rules also establish the rigorous standards for scientific methodology even before evidence enters the picture. Among the many questions which must be answered are the following: What is the difference between causation and correlation? When is it appropriate to use ordinal, nominal, or interval measurements? What is the most dependable way to isolate variables? Can variables be totally isolated at all? When should we apply mathematical principles? When should we apply statistical principles? What is science? What counts as evidence? What is an experiment? What is a theory? What constitutes a proof? What is the difference between probability, virtual certainty, and absolute certainty? In what ways does a philosophical investigation differ from a scientific investigation? Do they overlap? We cannot interpret evidence in a rational way until we answer these and many other questions.

Objective rational standards are, for want of a better term, epistemological safeguards. Under their jurisdiction, all parties must check their political motives and personal agendas at the door: Religious believers will not presume to use the book of Genesis as a scientific textbook, and secular doubters will not presume to disallow a “Divine foot in the door.” The role of scientists, after all, is to sit at the feet of nature and allow her to reveal her secrets. In that context, there is always an ethical component involved in their research: Either they will follow the evidence according to reason’s rules, or they will lead the evidence according to their own biases and prejudices. There is no middle ground for interpretation. One is either drawing information out of the data or injecting ideology into the data.

In this respect, the micro world is subject to the same metaphysical principles as the macro world. Quantum theorists, therefore, cannot reasonably challenge first principles on the grounds that quantum particles behave in strange and surprising ways. It was, after all, those same principles that brought attention to the strange and surprising behavior in the first place. In the absence of reason’s rules, we could not have known the difference between what is odd and what is normal or apprehend the counter-intuitive nature of quantum activity. Any scientist who presumes to negotiate away reason’s rules is, in effect, trying to put out of business the same principles that put him in business.

Meanwhile, the big questions remained unanswered. If one thing can come into existence without a cause, why cannot anything else do the same? Why not everything? Within such a “liberated” framework, how can the scientist know which events are caused and which ones are not? In any case, it appears that the special pleading of the quantum theorists has ended. At first, we were told that their claim on behalf of causeless events was a one-time deal. If, just this once, we would exempt their specialty from rational standards, there would be no more breaches—that is, until Lawrence Krauss exclaimed that the entire universe popped into existence without a cause. So much for special limits. But the development was entirely predictable. Irrationality knows no limits. That is why it is irrational.

That raises the prior question about why anyone in any specialty would question reason’s rules. In large part, the answer lies with members of the educational elite and their desire to take reason’s place as the final arbiter of right thinking. If reason has no rules, then power does the ruling. In order to facilitate that strategy, elitists promote the anti-intellectual doctrine that only empirical knowledge is real knowledge. If a concept or idea cannot be verified thought scientific means, then it doesn’t qualify as legitimate knowledge. Obviously, that philosophy refutes itself since it cannot pass its own test. It cannot be proven to be valid through empirical methods.

Wouldn’t it be easier to dispense with all this nonsense and simply acknowledge self-evident truths for what they are? What could be more reasonable than affirming with confidence that which we already know? It isn’t just the integrity of science that is at stake. Our ability to engage in any kind of rational discourse depends on it. Every long journey begins with a single step. Surely, we can all agree that there could never be more people in the city of Los Angeles than in the state of California without adding the words, —“yes, but”….” Or can we?

Comments
There is more that could be hashed out towards clarifying randomness and its association with free will in quantum mechanics, but suffice it now to say, whenever you hear an atheist mention the word random as to an explanation of final causality, reach for your wallet because you are being had!bornagain77
July 24, 2013
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Also of important note, as to the subject at hand as to more precisely defining the word random, as Darwinists would wish to use it as being separate from God’s will, it is interesting to note that Ludwig Boltzmann, an atheist, when he linked entropy and probability, did not, as Max Planck a Christian Theist points out in the following link, think to look for a constant to entropy:
The Austrian physicist Ludwig Boltzmann first linked entropy and probability in 1877. However, the equation as shown, involving a specific constant, was first written down by Max Planck, the father of quantum mechanics in 1900. In his 1918 Nobel Prize lecture, Planck said: “This constant is often referred to as Boltzmann’s constant, although, to my knowledge, Boltzmann himself never introduced it – a peculiar state of affairs, which can be explained by the fact that Boltzmann, as appears from his occasional utterances, never gave thought to the possibility of carrying out an exact measurement of the constant.” http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/B/Boltzmann_equation.html
I hold that the primary reason why Boltzmann, an atheist, never thought to carry out, or propose, a precise measurement for the constant on entropy is that he, as an atheist, had thought he had arrived at the ultimate explanation for how everything in the universe operates when he had link probability with entropy. i.e. In linking entropy with probability, Boltzmann, again an atheist, thought he had explained everything that happens in the universe to a ‘random’ chance basis. To him, as an atheist, it would simply be unfathomable that the ‘random chance’ (probabilistic) events of entropy in the universe should ever be constrained by a constant that would limit the effects of entropy in the universe. Whereas on the contrary, to a Christian Theist, it is expected that even the seemingly random chance events of entropy in the universe should be bounded by a constant, i.e. that 'randomness' would have its ultimate cause based in God!:
‘Men became scientific because they expected Law in Nature, and they expected Law in Nature because they believed in a Legislator. In most modern scientists this belief has died: it will be interesting to see how long their confidence in uniformity survives it. Two significant developments have already appeared—the hypothesis of a lawless sub-nature, and the surrender of the claim that science is true.’ Lewis, C.S., Miracles: a preliminary study, Collins, London, p. 110, 1947. Romans 8:20-21 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
Moreover, save for the 'spooky action at a distance' of quantum mechanics, for something to have motion in this universe requires energy,,
The Universe in Motion - David L. Bergman Excerpt: When an exchange of energy occurs, there is motion and activity.,,, An exchange of energy between atoms controls both the observable actions that take place in nature and the rate of change, whether this process is a continuous action or a series of changes taking place in a definite manner.,, http://www.commonsensescience.org/pdf/articles/process.pdf
Yet, Quantum Mechanics has now been extended to falsify local realism (reductive materialism) for photons without even using quantum entanglement (spooky action at a distance) to do it:
‘Quantum Magic’ Without Any ‘Spooky Action at a Distance’ – June 2011 Excerpt: A team of researchers led by Anton Zeilinger at the University of Vienna and the Institute for Quantum Optics and Quantum Information of the Austrian Academy of Sciences used a system which does not allow for entanglement, and still found results which cannot be interpreted classically. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/06/110624111942.htm Falsification of Local Realism without using Quantum Entanglement - Anton Zeilinger - video http://vimeo.com/34168474
Thus a photon, the most basic unit of energy upon which all material motion in the universe is ultimately dependent, is shown not to be a self sustaining entity in the universe but a photon is now shown to be dependent on a 'non-local', beyond space-time, cause to explain its continued existence within space-time. Or as a theist would say, “God 'sustains' the universe!”,, The atheists simply has nothing, in the very real literal sense, to appeal to to explain the 'cause' of photons. Thus it follows that all motion in the universe, even what we perceive to be random motion, is ultimately dependent on the permissive will of God in order for it to happen in this universe. So we have found that the initial randomness/entropy of the universe (1 in 10^10^123) is bounded at the creation of the universe, and we have also found that the ‘ordinary randomness’, as to how the universe ‘normally’ operates, is bounded by a constant in Boltzmann’s equation. And we have found that all motion, whether ‘random’ or not, is dependent on a ‘non-local’ causebornagain77
July 24, 2013
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Mr. Frank, Randomness - Entropic and Quantum For something to be considered a ‘random chance’ event in the universe is generally regarded as something lacking predictability to its occurrence or lacking a pattern to it. i.e. Generally the cause of the event is held to be unknown no one in their right mind would say that 'nothing' caused the random event!. But how, in a general sense, when an atheist invokes randomness as if he has issued a statement of final causality is that any different from a Theist saying an event was ‘miraculous’ if the atheists says an event ‘just happened' for no particular reason at all? Indeed it has been observed by no less than the noted physicist Wolfgang Pauli that the word ‘random chance’, as used by Biologists, is synonymous with the word ‘miracle’:
Nobel Prize-Winning Physicist Wolfgang Pauli on the Empirical Problems with Neo-Darwinism – Casey Luskin – February 27, 2012 Excerpt: While they (Darwinian Biologists) pretend to stay in this way completely ‘scientific’ and ‘rational,’ they become actually very irrational, particularly because they use the word ‘chance’, not any longer combined with estimations of a mathematically defined probability, in its application to very rare single events more or less synonymous with the old word ‘miracle.’” Wolfgang Pauli (pp. 27-28) - http://www.evolutionnews.org/2012/02/nobel_prize-win056771.html
Talbott humorously reflects on the awkward situation between Atheists and Theists here:
Evolution and the Illusion of Randomness – Talbott – Fall 2011 Excerpt: In the case of evolution, I picture Dennett and Dawkins filling the blackboard with their vivid descriptions of living, highly regulated, coordinated, integrated, and intensely meaningful biological processes, and then inserting a small, mysterious gap in the middle, along with the words, “Here something random occurs.” This “something random” looks every bit as wishful as the appeal to a miracle. It is the central miracle in a gospel of meaninglessness, a “Randomness of the gaps,” demanding an extraordinarily blind faith. At the very least, we have a right to ask, “Can you be a little more explicit here?” http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/evolution-and-the-illusion-of-randomness
Also of related interest, the atheists appeal to randomness as final cause for Darwinism prevents a rigid mathematical formulation for Darwinism from ever being formulated:
“It is our contention that if ‘random’ is given a serious and crucial interpretation from a probabilistic point of view, the randomness postulate is highly implausible and that an adequate scientific theory of evolution must await the discovery and elucidation of new natural laws—physical, physico-chemical, and biological.” Murray Eden, “Inadequacies of Neo-Darwinian Evolution as a Scientific Theory,” Mathematical Challenges to the Neo-Darwinian Interpretation of Evolution, editors Paul S. Moorhead and Martin M. Kaplan, June 1967, p. 109.
Basically, if the word random were left in this ‘fuzzy’, undefined, state one could very well argue as Theistic Evolutionists argue, and as Alvin Plantinga and other notable Theistic figures have argued, that each random event that occurs in the universe could be considered a ‘miracle’ and God could guide evolution through what seem to us to be 'random' events. And due to the synonymous nature between the two words, random and miracle, in this ‘fuzzy’, undefined, state, this argument that random events can be considered ‘miraculous’, while certainly true in the overall sense (see Quantum Non-Locality without entanglement Zeilinger), would none-the-less concede the intellectual high ground to the atheists since, by and large, the word random, as it is defined in the general public’s mind, is not associated with the word miraculous at all but the word random is most strongly associated with unpleasant ‘random’ events, ‘natural’ disasters, and such. Events that many people would prefer to distance God from in their mind, or that many people, even Theists, are unable to easily associate an all loving God with. Such as tornadoes, earthquakes, and other such catastrophes as that. Moreover, Darwinists, as Casey Luskin and Jay Richards pointed out in a disagreement with Alvin Plantinga, have taken full advantage of the popular definition of the word ‘random event’, (as in the general notion of unpredictable tragic events being separated from God’s will), in textbooks to mislead the public that a ‘random’ event is truly separated from God’s actions,,,
Unguided or Not? How Do Darwinian Evolutionists Define Their Theory? – Casey Luskin – August 11, 2012 Excerpt: While many new atheists undoubtedly make poor philosophers, the “unguided” nature of Darwinian evolution is not a mere metaphysical “add on.” Rather, it’s a core part of how the theory of Darwinian evolution has been defined by its leading proponents. Unfortunately, even some eminent theistic and intelligent design-friendly philosophers appear unaware of the history and scientific development of neo-Darwinian theory. (and its emphasis on 'fuzzy' randomness) http://www.evolutionnews.org/2012/08/unguided_or_not_1063191.html
But, because of the advance of modern science, we need not be armchair philosophers that must forever, endlessly, wrangle over the precise meaning of the word random being synonymous with the word miraculous, (all the while conceding the public relations battle to the Darwinists over the meaning of the word random), we can now more precisely define exactly what the word random means, as to a causal chain, so as to see exactly what a Darwinist means when he claims a ‘random’ event has occurred! ,, In this endeavor, in order to bring clarity to the word random, it is first very important to note that when computer programmers/engineers want to build a better random number generator for a computer program then a better source of entropy is required to be found by them in order for them to achieve the increased randomness they desire:
Cryptographically secure pseudorandom number generator Excerpt: From an information theoretic point of view, the amount of randomness, the entropy that can be generated is equal to the entropy provided by the system. But sometimes, in practical situations, more random numbers are needed than there is entropy available. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptographically_secure_pseudorandom_number_generator
And the maximum source for entropy (randomness) in the universe is now known to be black holes,,,
Entropy of the Universe – Hugh Ross – May 2010 Excerpt: Egan and Lineweaver found that supermassive black holes are the largest contributor to the observable universe’s entropy. They showed that these supermassive black holes contribute about 30 times more entropy than what the previous research teams estimated. http://www.reasons.org/entropy-universe
In fact, it has been argued that Gravity arises as an ‘entropic force’,,
Evolution is a Fact, Just Like Gravity is a Fact! UhOh! – January 2010 Excerpt: The results of this paper suggest gravity arises as an entropic force, once space and time themselves have emerged. https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/evolution-is-a-fact-just-like-gravity-is-a-fact-uhoh/
Indeed, Entropy is pervasive in its explanatory power,,
Shining Light on Dark Energy – October 21, 2012 Excerpt: It (Entropy) explains time; it explains every possible action in the universe;,, Even gravity, Vedral argued, can be expressed as a consequence of the law of entropy. ,,, The principles of thermodynamics are at their roots all to do with information theory. Information theory is simply an embodiment of how we interact with the universe —,,, http://crev.info/2012/10/shining-light-on-dark-energy/
In fact it was, in large measure, by studying the entropic considerations of black holes that Roger Penrose was able to derive the gargantuan 1 in 10^10^123 number as to the necessary initial entropic state for the universe:
Roger Penrose – How Special Was The Big Bang? “But why was the big bang so precisely organized, whereas the big crunch (or the singularities in black holes) would be expected to be totally chaotic? It would appear that this question can be phrased in terms of the behaviour of the WEYL part of the space-time curvature at space-time singularities. What we appear to find is that there is a constraint WEYL = 0 (or something very like this) at initial space-time singularities-but not at final singularities-and this seems to be what confines the Creator’s choice to this very tiny region of phase space.” How special was the big bang? – Roger Penrose Excerpt: This now tells us how precise the Creator’s aim must have been: namely to an accuracy of one part in 10^10^123. (from the Emperor’s New Mind, Penrose, pp 339-345 – 1989) Roger Penrose discusses initial entropy of the universe. – video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhGdVMBk6Zo The Physics of the Small and Large: What is the Bridge Between Them? Roger Penrose Excerpt: “The time-asymmetry is fundamentally connected to with the Second Law of Thermodynamics: indeed, the extraordinarily special nature (to a greater precision than about 1 in 10^10^123, in terms of phase-space volume) can be identified as the “source” of the Second Law (Entropy).” http://www.pul.it/irafs/CD%20IRAFS%2702/texts/Penrose.pdf
bornagain77
July 24, 2013
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Stephen #37 I didn't understand Geisler's argument but on closer inspection I think I do. He seems to equating contingent with dependent. I don't accept that. An uncaused event is contingent in the sense that it could have been otherwise - the beta particle might have been emitted at a different time - but it is not dependent - there was nothing that meant it had to be emitted at that particular time. I don't think it matters whether the quantum physicists assume or conclude things come into existence without a cause. The point is that they believe it to be true, work as though it were true, and physics carries on just fine. Thus proving that science does not have to assume that nothing comes into existence without a cause.
To not be there and then to be there is exactly the same thing as coming into existence. The verb “be” means to exist. You are arguing that some things can, without a cause “be there” when they were once not there.
Absolutely. That is my main point.
If some things can come into existence without a cause, why cannot anything come into existence without a cause? Why cannot a horse simply appear in your living room?
To answer that "why" question is to provide a cause. The whole point is that there some events such as the appearance of elementary particles for which there is no answer to the question "why". There are probably some good physical reasons why something as large as a horse cannot appear in your living room - conservation of mass/energy perhaps - but if you were to ask why some elementary particles do not appear suddenly or why they do not appear at particular time - then again there is no answer. That is the whole meaning of "uncaused". It is just that way.Mark Frank
July 24, 2013
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#38 BA77 I am confused. You write:
no physicist in his right mind argues that quantum events happen without a cause
But both the passages you link to appear to refute what you say. From passage 1:
A familiar example of this is the idea of “half-life.” Radioactive nuclei are liable to “decay” into smaller nuclei and other particles. If a certain type of nucleus has a half-life of, say, an hour, it means that a nucleus of that type has a 50% chance of decaying within 1 hour, a 75% chance within two hours, and so on. The quantum mechanical equations do not (and cannot) tell you when a particular nucleus will decay, only the probability of it doing so as a function of time. This is not something peculiar to nuclei. The principles of quantum mechanics apply to all physical systems, and those principles are inherently and inescapably probabilistic.
In passage 2 (can't copy and paste) the poll of 33 such physicists show 64% believe that randomness is a fundamental concept in nature. (Just to be clear if an outcome is random or inherently probabilistic then there is no event which causes it to happen at a specific time.) Possibly I have misunderstood you or the significance of the links?Mark Frank
July 24, 2013
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Mark
I am not sure how Norman Geisler makes his case but I can find no contradiction in saying “this event happened” or “this thing came into existence” without a cause. A proof is that quantum physicists work on this assumption and meet no contradiction.
Are you saying that you don't understand Geisler's argument? Or are you saying that you do understand it but you don't agree with it? If it is the latter, how does the argument fail in your judgment? The quantum physicists that you have in mind do not "assume" that things come into existence without a cause. They claim to CONCLUDE from evidence that things can come into existence without a cause, contradicting the scientific assumption that nothing comes into existence without a cause.
1b To come into existence without a cause is not the same as bringing itself into existence. To come into existence without a cause is just to be there one moment and not the next.
To not be there and then to be there is exactly the same thing as coming into existence. The verb "be" means to exist. You are arguing that some things can, without a cause "be there" when they were once not there. SB: If one thing can come into existence without a cause, why not anything or everything?
2. That is in the end partly an empirical and partly a practical matter. As an empirical truth it appears that for every event we observe there are some conditions under which it will happen and others under which it will not. We call the first set of conditions “causes” and concentrate on the ones that are more unusual or interesting and often call them “the cause”.This makes it a practical assumption to assume every event has a cause. Although this assumption like so many appears not always to be useful.
You are not really addressing my question. If some things can come into existence without a cause, why cannot anything come into existence without a cause? Why cannot a horse simply appear in your living room?StephenB
July 24, 2013
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Mark Frank you falsely claim: I can find no contradiction in saying “this event happened” or “this thing came into existence” without a cause. A proof is that quantum physicists work on this assumption and meet no contradiction. No they don't! Although Quantum physicists may severely disagree as to what the cause is, no physicist in his right mind argues that quantum events happen without a cause. Does Quantum Physics Make it Easier to Believe in God? July 2012 - Stephen M. Barr - professor of physics at the University of Delaware. Excerpt: The upshot is this: If the mathematics of quantum mechanics is right (as most fundamental physicists believe), and if materialism is right, one is forced to accept the Many Worlds Interpretation of quantum mechanics. And that is awfully heavy baggage for materialism to carry. If, on the other hand, we accept the more traditional understanding of quantum mechanics that goes back to von Neumann, one is led by its logic (as Wigner and Peierls were) to the conclusion that not everything is just matter in motion, and that in particular there is something about the human mind that transcends matter and its laws. It then becomes possible to take seriously certain questions that materialism had ruled out of court: If the human mind transcends matter to some extent, could there not exist minds that transcend the physical universe altogether? And might there not even exist an ultimate Mind? http://www.bigquestionsonline.com/content/does-quantum-physics-make-it-easier-believe-god Zeilinger Polls Quantum Physicists on Nature of Reality In the 1920's, a group of physicists were at the center of a hot debate surrounding the nature of the quantum world. Over 90 years later, these debates continue. At a recent conference on "Quantum Physics and the Nature of Reality" the quantum physicist, Anton Zeilinger (see interview with Discover Mag. here), polled the 33 attendees – all quantum physicists, philosophers, and mathematicians – on 16 questions that are central to understanding the nature of the quantum world. http://physicsbuzz.physicscentral.com/2013/01/zeilinger-polls-quantum-physicists-on.htmlbornagain77
July 24, 2013
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Thanks for the response, Stephen. As you know, I am in no way a philosopher, so this is just me trying to make sense of this from the (not entirely irrelevant!) PoV of an empirical scientist. But I have never been very persuaded that the Law of Causality is really a law (and at least a few philosphers seem to agree! Not that philosophers are always correct....) But we have brains and we have logic, so let me comment on your source:
“The principle of causality is reducible to the principle of noncontradiction, for on inspection of the terms it would be a contradiction to affirm that a contingent (dependent) being is uncaused (independent)”.
This seems to me to beg the question (literally - petitio principii) If we start from the premise that all things are caused, then something cannot be both caused and uncaused. But we aren't deriving that from the LNC, we are simply saying, that, given the premise that a thing cannot be uncaused, then a causeless cause would be a contradiction in terms! And it's that premise I am querying.
1 b. Also, it seems to me that my earlier point is still decisive. If something could bring itself into existence, then it would have to exist before it existed, which is obviously impossible.
Yes indeed, but that presupposes that a thing must be brought into existence by another thing, and that's the very premise I am querying (see above :))
So, you must either deny the law of noncontradiction or else show why it is not tied to causality.
No, all I am querying is the assumption that all things are caused. If not all things are caused - if fundamental particles, for instance, are uncaused, then nothing is contradicted other than the premise that all things are caused.
2. Further, neither of you have attended to my relevant question. If one thing can begin to exist without a cause, why not anything–why not everything?
Well, I thought I had addressed it in my comment at 21 when I wrote:
Most things that are “brought into existence” are brought into existence by a coming-together (sometimes by virtue of an intentional agent, sometimes by virtue of fundamental forces) of parts. But why should we assume that is true of the fundamental parts themselves? They are called “fundamental” because they are foundational, not “brought into existence” by rearrangement.
In other words it looks as though, when we get low enough, things are not made of other things, they are basic bits - they do not come into existence as a result of more fundamental bits forming a system such as a proton, or an atom, or a molecule, or a cell, or a multicellular organism, none of which existed before the events that brought them together, and so can be said to have been caused by those events. And I don't see that we can assume that "come into existence" or "brought into existence" necessarily applies to the fundamental bits themselves, at least not in the same sense as we, say, bring into existence a cake, or a carbon-dioxide molecule. So my suggested answer to your "why not everything?" question is: because everything above the level of fundamental particles exists by virtue of being a system of more fundamental bits, and was brought about by events that brought those fundamental bits into the configuration that we call a thing that exists. And these complex-things (what I tend to call "systems") persist over substantial periods of time. But once we get down into the particle zoo, it's not even clear what "existing" means, because persisting is statistical rather than solidly observable, and it's certainly not clear what "makes" (literally) a fundamental particle whereas we can be much clearer about what makes a helium atom, say. I don't think this is any threat to ID, by the way, indeed it opens the way for an ontology that Dembski hints at when he talks about information being at the bottom of existence - the way bits (literally and as in binary bits!) are arranged, rather than what they are, which may be probabilities of things - potentials for things - rather than caused things. But I'm no physicist (and I think Dembski's argument has problems anyway) any more than I'm a philosopher, so I could be all out to lunch here. But what I am fairly certain of is that we cannot just import assumptions about the universality of causation from the macroscopic world of systems into the fundamental particle world of leptons and hadrons and photons without at least pausing to question whether we are extrapolating beyond the range of our data!Elizabeth B Liddle
July 24, 2013
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#33 Stephen I am not sure how Norman Geisler makes his case but I can find no contradiction in saying "this event happened" or "this thing came into existence" without a cause. A proof is that quantum physicists work on this assumption and meet no contradiction. 1b To come into existence without a cause is not the same as bringing itself into existence. To come into existence without a cause is just to be there one moment and not the next. 2. That is in the end partly an empirical and partly a practical matter. As an empirical truth it appears that for every event we observe there are some conditions under which it will happen and others under which it will not. We call the first set of conditions "causes" and concentrate on the ones that are more unusual or interesting and often call them "the cause". This makes it a practical assumption to assume every event has a cause. Although this assumption like so many appears not always to be useful.Mark Frank
July 24, 2013
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Mark @22 Elizabeth @29 I hope you don't mind if I answer your objections with one post, since you both are challenging causality as a law. 1 a. I think the strongest justification for the Law of Causality (nothing can begin to exist without a cause) is the fact that it is inextricably tied to the Law of Non-Contradiction. From Norman Geisler: "The principle of causality is reducible to the principle of noncontradiction, for on inspection of the terms it would be a contradiction to affirm that a contingent (dependent) being is uncaused (independent)". 1 b. Also, it seems to me that my earlier point is still decisive. If something could bring itself into existence, then it would have to exist before it existed, which is obviously impossible. So, you must either deny the law of noncontradiction or else show why it is not tied to causality. 2. Further, neither of you have attended to my relevant question. If one thing can begin to exist without a cause, why not anything--why not everything?StephenB
July 24, 2013
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Neil
I am not understanding this at all. I was born and grew up in Australia.
OK, I must have misread the premise as stated. In any case, I grant the principle that you arguing for. It is possible to begin with a single false premise and arrive at a true conclusion.StephenB
July 24, 2013
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StephenB: **In the United States, a city is part of a state by definition.
except of course when they aren't......e.g., Washington, DC.franklin
July 24, 2013
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Elizabeth:
Interesting post Stephen, but like Neil, I also have a couple of issues:
You have more than a couple of issues, Lizzie. You don't understand darwinian evolution. You don't understand evolutionary and genetic algorithms and you don't understand cladistics. That is three issues without even having to dig.Joe
July 24, 2013
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Thanks, Andre. It doesn't really help, though, because my point is that we cannot safely take it as a given. It's controversial at best. See here for instance.Elizabeth B Liddle
July 24, 2013
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Dr Liddle The Law of Causality Hope this helps you! http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF00367722#page-1 There is allot of information on that link, but here is the clincher... its foundational to science.Andre
July 24, 2013
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Stephen: I think you have made a few errors with your extrapolations from the Law of Identity, the Law of Non-Contradiction, and the Law of the Excluded Middle, but I'm sure those can be sorted out. I think this is a more contentious claim:
Among reason’s most pragmatic judges, the Law of Causality and the Principle of Sufficient Reason define the rational standards for all philosophical and scientific investigations.
I think this claim requires support.Elizabeth B Liddle
July 24, 2013
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@#25 - hmmm...so much for the 'it doesn't matter who a person is' approach, claimed by many 'neutralistic' (quasi-objectivist) IDists like StephenB. A false premise to StephenB means "you were NOT born in the USA," Waltzing Matilda! ;)Gregory
July 24, 2013
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StephenB:
Your conclusion is not based on a false premise. A false premise would be the claim that you were NOT born in the USA.
I am not understanding this at all. I was born and grew up in Australia. You are calling true what is false and you are calling false, what is true.Neil Rickert
July 24, 2013
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I like Peter Kreefts first cause argument. It's reasonable, logical and rational as well as easy to understand. It postulates a first cause that must be a nesseccary cause. http://www.peterkreeft.com/topics/first-cause.htm The argument is basically very simple, natural, intuitive, and commonsensical. We have to become complex and clever in order to doubt or dispute it. It is based on an instinct of mind that we all share: the instinct that says everything needs an explanation. Nothing just is without a reason why it is. Everything that is has some adequate or sufficient reason why it is. Philosophers call this the Principle of Sufficient Reason. We use it every day, in common sense and in science as well as in philosophy and theology. If we saw a rabbit suddenly appear on an empty table, we would not blandly say, "Hi, rabbit. You came from nowhere, didn't you?" No, we would look for a cause, assuming there has to be one. Did the rabbit fall from the ceiling? Did a magician put it there when we weren't looking? If there seems to be no physical cause, we look for a psychological cause: perhaps someone hypnotized us. As a last resort, we look for a supernatural cause, a miracle. But there must be some cause. We never deny the Principle of Sufficient Reason itself. No one believes the Pop Theory: that things just pop into existence for no reason at all. Perhaps we will never find the cause, but there must be a cause for everything that comes into existence. Now the whole universe is a vast, interlocking chain of things that come into existence. Each of these things must therefore have a cause. My parents caused me, my grandparents caused them, et cetera. But it is not that simple. I would not be here without billions of causes, from the Big Bang through the cooling of the galaxies and the evolution of the protein molecule to the marriages of my ancestors. The universe is a vast and complex chain of causes. But does the universe as a whole have a cause? Is there a first cause, an uncaused cause, a transcendent cause of the whole chain of causes? If not, then there is an infinite regress of causes, with no first link in the great cosmic chain. If so, then there is an eternal, necessary, independent, self-explanatory being with nothing above it, before it, or supporting it. It would have to explain itself as well as everything else, for if it needed something else as its explanation, its reason, its cause, then it would not be the first and uncaused cause. Such a being would have to be God, of course. If we can prove there is such a first cause, we will have proved there is a God. Why must there be a first cause? Because if there isn't, then the whole universe is unexplained, and we have violated our Principle of Sufficient Reason for everything. If there is no first cause, each particular thing in the universe is explained in the short run, or proximately, by some other thing, but nothing is explained in the long run, or ultimately, and the universe as a whole is not explained. Everyone and everything says in turn, "Don't look to me for the final explanation. I'm just an instrument. Something else caused me." If that's all there is, then we have an endless passing of the buck. God is the one who says, "The buck stops here." If there is no first cause, then the universe is like a great chain with many links; each link is held up by the link above it, but the whole chain is held up by nothing. If there is no first cause, then the universe is like a railroad train moving without an engine. Each car's motion is explained proximately by the motion of the car in front of it: the caboose moves because the boxcar pulls it, the boxcar moves because the cattle car pulls it, et cetera. But there is no engine to pull the first car and the whole train. That would be impossible, of course. But that is what the universe is like if there is no first cause: impossible.wallstreeter43
July 24, 2013
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...reason’s rules also establish the rigorous standards for scientific methodology even before evidence enters the picture. Among the many questions which must be answered are the following: What is the difference between causation and correlation? When is it appropriate to use ordinal, nominal, or interval measurements? What is the most dependable way to isolate variables? Can variables be totally isolated at all? When should we apply mathematical principles? When should we apply statistical principles? What is science? What counts as evidence? What is an experiment? What is a theory? What constitutes a proof? What is the difference between probability, virtual certainty, and absolute certainty? In what ways does a philosophical investigation differ from a scientific investigation? Do they overlap? We cannot interpret evidence in a rational way until we answer these and many other questions.
Although I agree that all these things are vital, Stephen, I somewhat dispute that they arise "even before evidence enters the picture". Our data analytical techniques did not, historically, arise before we had data. I simply do not believe that it would have been possible for an armchair mathematician to figure out statistical principles without a prior empirical tradition. Indeed as human beings we made many big mistakes by thinking rather than testing (cf Aristotle vs Galileo). Logic is great stuff, but the idea that it somehow precedes experience is false, I think. Scientific methodology grew out of the empirical tradition, it did not precede it. Statistical concepts were developed in order to handle data, not the other way round.Elizabeth B Liddle
July 24, 2013
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A very interesting subject. It would be nice to discuss it without anyone being accused of being dishonest or stupid. Let's see how far it goes before that happens. A few thoughts (I am sorry this is a bit long): Whatever the status of the rules of reason they need interpreting to apply to a specific situation. We know that the population of California must exceed the population of Los Angeles because we have background knowledge about California, Los Angeles and people. However, as Neil pointed out, the total private wealth of California could conceivably be less than the total private wealth of Los Angeles because you can have negative wealth. You have to know that the parts cannot be negative and that is something you have to empirically observe. It is not always clear what is a rule of right reason and what is not. Prior to about 1800 most people would have taken Euclid's fifth postulate as self-evident. Prior to 1900 most people would take it as self-evident that if event A happened at the same time as event B for one observer then that would be true for all observers. StephenB raises a good point that we use the rules of right reason in order to come to these conclusions. So how can we question them? I think of them not as statements about the world but tools that help us discover the truth and like all tools they can be improved. The concept of absolute simultaneity was an extremely useful one (and still is) but Einstein showed that it could be improved by moving to relative simultaneity. This applies particularly to the hot topic of causality. StephenB writes:
Everything must have a reason or cause for its existence and an explanation for why it undergoes change.
But even what counts as a change (and therefore needs a cause) can be uncertain. Prior to Newton most people would think of motion as continuous change. It was part of his genius to conceive of motion as the unchanging state and acceleration as change. What causes the Sun to rise? You could say it is the rotation of the earth but there is no event causing it to rise - the earth just keeps on rolling along in the same old way. If one day the Sun does not rise we would certainly ask what caused it not to rise and with some urgency. It is easy to think of causation as a simple, objective relationship between one event and another - the billiard ball analogy. But any event is the result of many different things and the one we identify as the cause depends on our frame of reference. We walk into a room and are surprised to see a red ball and ask what caused that red ball to appear there? The answer might be someone put it there. But if we know that the chambermaid is in the habit of placing a free gift each morning then the answer might be - they had an excess of balls today. Or maybe the thing that surprises us is the colour (she usually places a ball but a red one is unusual) and the answer is because it matches the curtains. And so on. A clearer example might be a fungus appearing overnight. The answer to what caused that might be it is damp here a spore came through the window someone left the window open etc But also some aspects of an event might not be the result of anything. The answer to what caused that might be "nothing it just happened". This is not the same as saying we don't know what caused it. When it comes down to emission of a beta particle we can describe conditions that contribute to it. But to date no one has described an event which causes it to be emitted at that particular moment. More significantly scientist are quite happy to accept, as a hypothesis, that there is no such event the emission just happens and science does not fall apart. In summary - causation is a word for many different relationships between events, states and objects and it is quite difficult to know what it means to say that "every object that comes into being must have a cause" much less assess whether it is true.Mark Frank
July 24, 2013
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StephenB:
If an object is not brought into existence by something else (caused), then it must bring itself into existence
But this is yet another premise that may be false: the premise that all things are brought into existence by something. Most things that are "brought into existence" are brought into existence by a coming-together (sometimes by virtue of an intentional agent, sometimes by virtue of fundamental forces) of parts. But why should we assume that is true of the fundamental parts themselves? They are called "fundamental" because they are foundational, not "brought into existence" by rearrangement. So why must we assume that they need to be "brought into existence" by anything at all? Could "the capacity to exist" not be one of their intrinsic properties? At any rate, why is this not at least as defensible a premise as "all things must be brought into existence by something"? My point is not to assert that your premises are false, merely to draw attention to the fact (as I see it!) that there are more of them than you are perhaps acknowledging, and that some may not be as self-evidently true as you assume. I'd be wary of dismissing math as allowing things that would be illogical in reality. My temptation is to speculate the other way: that ultimate reality may boil down to math - and that if it works in math, perhaps it also works in reality. Perhaps that's an even argument for a creative Logos :) Thanks for your acknowledgement of my false premise point, btw :) The sense in which I agree with keiths about uncertainty, is that I am aware that things that I think are necessarily certain (my own existence, for instance) sometimes turn out to be glitches in my own logic!Elizabeth B Liddle
July 24, 2013
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Appreciated.kairosfocus
July 24, 2013
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KF @15. Good points all! On the current difficulty, keep hope alive.StephenB
July 24, 2013
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PPS: Implication logic [where warrant for implication has various grounds] is different from entailment of sets of syllogisms, which are about combined assertions regarding set membership, directly implicating meaning. For instance P: Socrates is a Man plus Q: men are mortal entails that R: Socrates is mortal. Interpreted on the implications side, it brings up that one or both of the members of {(P AND Q) => R}, which per De Morgan etc or a truth table, converts to ([P => R] OR [Q => R]). I was puzzled on this as a student and went looking for a Mathematician in that Dept at my Uni. The point was underscored that the meaning involved in each of P and Q does have that property. Socrates is a man involves the constitution of being human, i.e. mortality. That may help clarify a difference that seems to be under debate.kairosfocus
July 24, 2013
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Lots of people thinking of you and your son KF. Heartfelt blessings to your family.Elizabeth B Liddle
July 24, 2013
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Elizabeth
How did you derive the premise that objects have to be caused?
If an object is not brought into existence by something else (caused), then it must bring itself into existence, which would mean that it had to exist before it existed, which is impossible. So, since it is impossible that it brought itself into existence, its existence must have been caused by something else.
Premise: All cats have tails (False) Conclusion: therefore my cat has a tail. (True)
Good point. Point taken.StephenB
July 24, 2013
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SB: Interesting job. One for my vaults and maybe this should go on the resources tab? [A new Weak Argument Corrective?] I suggest: (a) in implication logic as applied to modelling, false premises can imply true conclusions but notoriously models can be unreliable beyond zones that are validated. (This is one reason why scientific explanations strictly pursue empirical reliability rather than truth. Truth is a hope not a technical goal.) (b) the PSR is more fundamental than causality, which is a corollary, one of two outcomes on assessing contingency/non-contingency. That is, we look at actual or candidate beings and ask why/how? We may find clusters of attributes to be coherent/incoherent. The latter, e.g. square circles, are impossible. Of possible beings some may be contingent, others are necessary. I find that presence/absence of "necessary causal factors" [what I have called ON/OFF enabling factors to minimise confusion] is a good test point, on instructive analogy of a fire. For a contingent being, a sufficient cluster of causal factors at least enfolding all necessary factors must be present to start or sustain. (c] Necessary beings such as the number 2 and the truth asserted in 2 + 3 = 5, are independent of ON/OFF enabling factors. They will be possible, will have no beginning nor end, i.e. are not caused to begin. (d) A serious candidate to be a necessary being [obviously contingent entities such as flying spaghetti monsters . . . made up from materials and arranged parts or unicorns are not serious] will be impossible or actual. Cf S5. (e) I suggest also that the identity cluster arises as a corollary of the world partition imposed by a distinct entity, e.g. A our red ball on the table: W = {A | NOT-A}, where also fuzzy borders can be made crisp by Zadehan logic or the like. Hope these help. KF PS: Expressions of concern appreciated. Progress in travel is going well, main consultations leading to surgery are to follow. Details will not be publicly given. But my focus is now elsewhere for a good little while.kairosfocus
July 24, 2013
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Also I feel compelled to mention that never once in my entire life have I ever heard a YEC refer to the Bible or Genesis as a science textbook. We believe the book of Genesis to be an accurate history, and we resent the common sentiment that only in this particular case are scientists not allowed to utilize documented historical observations to inform their inquiry.tragic mishap
July 24, 2013
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StephenB
Well, there are differences that can mislead. For example, in math you can have an infinite regress, but in causal relations you may not. Numbers do not have to be caused like objects do. So math offers possibilities (and paradoxes) that logic will not allow.
How did you derive the premise that objects have to be caused? It seems to me that logic allows it just fine (hence the math) - its your premise that doesn't. How do you know that premise is not false? (I'm not necessarily saying it isn't, I'm just interested in your reasoning.)
I am referring to a single false premise. With two premises (True and False, True and True, False and False) you can have either a true of false outcome.
OK: Premise: All cats have tails (False) Conclusion: therefore my cat has a tail. (True)Elizabeth B Liddle
July 24, 2013
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