Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

Dr Raoult Roars — new articles on findings and issues about HCQ + Cocktails for Covid-19

Categories
Academic Freedom
Defending our Civilization
Epistemology
Medicine
News Highlights
rhetoric
Sci-Tech watch
Selective Hyperskepticism
Share
Facebook
Twitter/X
LinkedIn
Flipboard
Print
Email

IHU- Méditerranée Infection, Marseille, is a significant French research institute that has continued its work on CV 19. For the record, here are excerpts from some recent work, headlined from threads where such would be buried:

EXH 1: >>COVID-IHU #15

Version 1 du 27 Mai 2020
Early diagnosis and management of COVID-19 patients: a real-life cohort study of 3,737 patients, Marseille, France

Abstract

Background:
In our institute in Marseille, France, we proposed early and massive screening for coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). Hospitalization and early treatment with hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin (HCQ-AZ) was proposed for the positive cases.

Methods:
We retrospectively report the clinical management of 3,737 patients, including 3,054 (81.7%) treated with HCQ-AZ for at least three days and 683 (18.3%) patients treated with other methods (“others”). Outcomes were death, transfer to the intensive care unit (ICU), ? 10 days of hospitalization and viral shedding.

Results:
By testing 101,522 samples by polymerase chain reaction (PCR) from 65,993 individuals, we diagnosed 6,836 patients (10.4%), including 3,737 included in our cohort. The mean age was 45 (sd 17) years, 45% were male, and the fatality rate was 0.9%. We performed 2,065 low-dose computed tomography (CT) scans highlighting lung lesions in 581 of the 933 (62%) patients with minimal clinical symptoms (NEWS score = 0). A discrepancy between spontaneous dyspnoea, hypoxemia and lung lesions was observed. Clinical factors (age, comorbidities, NEWS-2 score), biological factors (lymphopenia; eosinopenia; decrease in blood zinc; and increase in D-dimers, lactate dehydrogenase (LDH), creatinine phosphokinase (CPK), and c-reactive protein (CRP)) and moderate and severe lesions detected in low-dose CT scans were associated with poor clinical outcome. Treatment with HCQ-AZ was associated with a decreased risk of transfer to the ICU or death (HR 0.19 0.12-0.29), decreased risk of hospitalization ?10 days (odds ratios 95% CI 0.37 0.26-0.51) and shorter duration of viral shedding (time to negative PCR: HR 1.27 1.16-1.39). QTc prolongation (>60 ms) was observed in 25 patients (0.67%) leading to the cessation of treatment in 3 cases. No cases of torsade de pointe or sudden death were observed.

Conclusion
Early diagnosis, early isolation and early treatment with at least 3 days of HCQ-AZ result in a significantly better clinical outcome and contagiosity in patients with COVID-19 than other treatments. Long-term follow-up to screen for fibrosis will be the next challenge in the management of COVID-19.>>

EXH 2: >>Adjusting series of patients for trial comparisons for COVID –
19 treatments

Author list :
3Audrey GIRAUD -GATINEAU1,2,3,4 (PhD student); Jean Christophe LAGIER 1,4,5 (MD); 4 Yolande OBADIA 1
(MD); Hervé CHAUDET 1,2,3 (MD); Didier RAOULT 1,5* (MD)

Abstract:

Background
: SARS – COV-2 has emerged and spread around the world since December 2019. Studies initiated in Marseille by our hospital centre have suggested significant clinical effectiveness of treatment by combining hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin (HCQ+AZ). However, due to the
urgency of responding to the pandemic, they were not obtained through randomized controlled trials. Alternative assessment methods are therefore needed.

Methods:
We compared our data in silico with those published by two studies comparing 32 other antiviral drugs. For this purpose, random sampling was performed in our cohort to 33 obtain similar groups for disease severity, gender, age and comorbidities associated with 34 chronic diseases with patients included in the remdesivir and lopinavir-ritonavir trials.

Findings:
Dual HCQ+AZ therapy was associated with 3 times fewer deaths than
similar 37groups treated either with lopinavir-ritonavir(9% vs 20%, p-value = 0·03) or standard care 38 (8% vs 25·2%, p-value = 0·001). Compared with patients included in the remdesivir
study by 39 Wang et al., we also showed a significant difference in the clinical outcome (proportion of 40cured patients with negative viral load) in favour of HCQ+AZ (77.8% versus 58·2% p = 0·0001). 42 43

Interpretation:
Although comparison of HCQ+AZ with other antiviral drugs has limitations 44due to aggregated data, this study provides additional evidence showing that HCQ+AZ should 45 be the systematic treatment of choice after diagnosis of COVID -19 -positive cases. 46 47

Funding:
This work was supported by the French Government under the “Investments for theFuture” programme managed by the National Agency for Research (ANR), Méditerranée- Infection 10-
IAHU – 03 , and was also supported by Région Provence Alpes Côte d’Azur and European funding FEDER PRIMMI (Fonds Européen de Développement Régional -51 Plateformes de Recherche et d’Innovation Mutualisées Méditerranée Infection)>>

EXH 3: >>Assay
Randomised Controlled Trials during epidemic

Philippe Brouqui, Pierre Verger, Didier Raoult
Aix Marseille Université, IRD, MEPHI, VITROME,
ORS Paca, IHU-Méditerranée Infection, Marseille,
France

In epidemics there is an urgent need for new knowledge on drug efficacy to help policymakers fight the crisis. Yet the best research methodology to do this is a matter of de bate, write Philippe Brouqui, Pierre Verger and Didier Raoult .

The outbreak of an emerging infectious agent needs the rapid involvement of research to bring new knowledge. Past experience with Ebola virus outbreaks and, more recently SARS-CoV 2, have raised a question over the place of randomised controlled trials (RCTs) as the methodology of choice to
answer clinical questions in an novel epidemic situation. Drug safety and effectiveness is a long process which can take years. For antimicrobials, just 25% of drugs submitted to phase 1 succeed to Phase 3 and further licensing (1). This is why, in an epidemic, drug repurposing is often looked at, because drug toxicity has already been evaluated (2).

An RCT isdesigned to attempt to reduce bias, particularly in trials evaluating new drugs. The principle is to random assign volunteers into two or more treatment options and then compare them against a measured outcome. As RCTs reduce causality and spurious bias, they are considered to be the most reliable form of scientific evidence. For these reasons, they are required for market authorisation of a new pharmaceutical drug and cited by healthcare policies as a mandatory means for decision -making about treatments.

When gold standard becomes unethical

In emerging disease outbreaks, there is an urgent lack of treatments for the new pathogen. When a particular therapeutic option is supported by scientifically demonstrated efficacy in vitro and or in animal model, and supported further by clinical case reports and/or pilot series in humans, it is ethically difficult to argue that the data still needs to be confirmed in an RCT before it can be made available to patients. Especially if it seems “obvious” that control (untreated) subjects will have poorer outcomes than those receiving treatment. As one study mocked, there would be few volunteers for the placebo group in an RCT on the parachute’s effectiveness in avoiding death by jumping out of an airplane, unless the jump had an average height of 0.6 m (3).

When even imperfect scientific data show a particularly obvious effect, it is no longer ethical to perform an RCT since it forces patients to accept either not to be treated (in the control arm), or to be treated with a molecule known to be effective. Consider the advent of penicillin. It took five
patients before Sir Edward Abraham could definitively demonstrate that penicillin saved 100% of patients with staphylococcus or streptococcus infections. Nobody today would dare to test the efficacy of penicillin on pneumococcal pneumonia compared to placebo . . . >>

Food for thought, especially given the fiasco of the seemingly decisive Lancet paper which then had to be withdrawn. The remarks on the gold standard fallacies are particularly significant.

The underlying issue is that selective hyperskepticism is leading to ignoring of cumulatively adequate but somehow unwelcome findings, tracing to ethical weaknesses including the error of imagining skepticism an intellectual virtue and using it to substitute for prudence. We need to restore that due balance to our reasoning and decision-making.

A useful brief summary on prudence is:

Prudence is the virtue that disposes practical reason to discern our true good in every circumstance and to choose the right means of achieving it; “the prudent man looks where he is going.”65 “Keep sane and sober for your prayers.”66 Prudence is “right reason in action,” writes St. Thomas Aquinas, following Aristotle.67 It is not to be confused with timidity or fear, nor with duplicity or dissimulation. It is called auriga virtutum (the charioteer of the virtues); it guides the other virtues by setting rule and measure. It is prudence that immediately guides the judgment of conscience. The prudent man determines and directs his conduct in accordance with this judgment. With the help of this virtue we apply moral principles to particular cases without error and overcome doubts about the good to achieve and the evil to avoid.

Further food for thought, on seven indicative, inescapable first duties of responsible reason: to truth, to right reason, to prudence, to sound conscience, to neighbour, so to fairness and justice, etc. . END

Comments
Unfortunately, the impression you get from reading comments here is that if it's not about hydrochloroquine (and zinc) and coming from Dr Raoult and Dr Zelensky then there's no interest.Seversky
June 16, 2020
June
06
Jun
16
16
2020
06:54 AM
6
06
54
AM
PDT
here they could learn powerful science about zinc etc
You have been asked to provide information on zinc that makes it irrelevant. You. claimed it exists. As far as Fauci and WHO, they do not have a great track record on C19. I would not hold them up pillars of correct information. We do not know what is driving their proclamations. We are in a period of great uncertainty and my experience is medical people while very intelligent in general do not like uncertainty when they have to act and speak.jerry
June 16, 2020
June
06
Jun
16
16
2020
06:51 AM
6
06
51
AM
PDT
Retired physicist is just another wanker. Clearly here just to muddy the waters.ET
June 16, 2020
June
06
Jun
16
16
2020
06:48 AM
6
06
48
AM
PDT
Everybody knows you get the best science from YouTube videos.
There are two professional medical sites aimed at doctors (MedCram and Medmastery) that use YouTube for disseminating information about C19. Are you saying they are invalid? From Medmastery website
Award-winning teaching method Medmastery is “highly commended” by the British Medical Association (BMA). The annual Medical Book Awards of the BMA recognizes outstanding contributions to medical literature. And for the second time around, Medmastery won the renowned Comenius Award from the Society for Pedagogy, Information and Media (GPI). The GPI awards outstanding digital educational products.
From MedCram YouTube site
Medical lectures explained CLEARLY at https://www.medcram.com MedCram is trusted by thousands of medical students, clinicians, and Universities with over 20 million video views and counting.
These have been frequently linked in the last 3 months on this site for providing good information on C19.jerry
June 16, 2020
June
06
Jun
16
16
2020
06:44 AM
6
06
44
AM
PDT
It's the first one that they accept as being the first! ;)ET
June 16, 2020
June
06
Jun
16
16
2020
06:42 AM
6
06
42
AM
PDT
Dexamethasone is first life-saving coronavirus drug
That is definitely good news but not the first.jerry
June 16, 2020
June
06
Jun
16
16
2020
06:37 AM
6
06
37
AM
PDT
And if the YouTube video is wrong then there shouldn't be any issue with RP demonstrating such a thing. But we know RP will never even attempt to do so. Very telling, thatET
June 16, 2020
June
06
Jun
16
16
2020
06:23 AM
6
06
23
AM
PDT
RP, MedCram is serious and there is indeed reason to see Zn as an important ion. It really is not some random YT site. KFkairosfocus
June 16, 2020
June
06
Jun
16
16
2020
06:23 AM
6
06
23
AM
PDT
I treat people how they deserve to be treated. You come off as an ass so you get treated as an ass. The YouTube video is referenced with the supporting science. Clearly you are proud of your willful ignorance, RP- as predicted, RP ignores then science. How quaint...ET
June 16, 2020
June
06
Jun
16
16
2020
06:19 AM
6
06
19
AM
PDT
Everybody knows you get the best science from YouTube videos.Retired Physicist
June 16, 2020
June
06
Jun
16
16
2020
06:09 AM
6
06
09
AM
PDT
ET June 16, 2020 at 6:48 am Compared to you, RP, I am a scientific and medical genius. You are just a cowardly loser and equivocator. Good luck with that.
And you’re obviously such a good person, and kind, too! I should aspire to be like you.Retired Physicist
June 16, 2020
June
06
Jun
16
16
2020
06:08 AM
6
06
08
AM
PDT
Medical professionals can learn about zinc by reading peer-reviewed medical journals: Zinc and viruses There are even medcram videos explaining how it works and providing the science behind it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7F1cnWup9M&t=621s RP will ignore the scienceET
June 16, 2020
June
06
Jun
16
16
2020
05:53 AM
5
05
53
AM
PDT
"Dexamethasone is first life-saving coronavirus drug" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53061281JVL
June 16, 2020
June
06
Jun
16
16
2020
05:49 AM
5
05
49
AM
PDT
Compared to you, RP, I am a scientific and medical genius. You are just a cowardly loser and equivocator. Good luck with that.ET
June 16, 2020
June
06
Jun
16
16
2020
05:48 AM
5
05
48
AM
PDT
EG if only Fauci and the WHO etc would read some anonymous comments here they could learn powerful science about zinc etc. I have no idea why they would ignore leading medical scientists like ET. ;-)Retired Physicist
June 16, 2020
June
06
Jun
16
16
2020
05:41 AM
5
05
41
AM
PDT
Acartia Eddie:
UD should be required reading for all medical researchers. How else will they learn about all this science?
They won't learn about science by reading about evolutionism, that's for sure. Blind watchmaker evolution has never contributed anything to any research, other than how not to go about it. And YOU still don't know jack about science and you have been reading UD for years.ET
June 16, 2020
June
06
Jun
16
16
2020
05:37 AM
5
05
37
AM
PDT
Jerry, the rise of ideological censorship on social media by appeal to a nebulous polarised "community" -- new media lynch mob posing on "social justice" seems a more accurate summary -- speaks volumes on where the rise of culture-form marxism and linked so-called critical theory metanarratives about oppression by the targetted other points. The turnabout projection of often slanderous and misanthropic accusations that then were used to justify the most wicked persecutions, mass murders and aggressive blitzkrieg invasions speaks for itself, as an example and warning from history now beginning to pass from living memory. Astonishingly, we have already forgotten or suppressed lessons that were paid for in rivers of blood and tears. Freedom is on the line, and with it constitutional, democratic self-government. We are playing with fire we hardly begin to understand. KFkairosfocus
June 16, 2020
June
06
Jun
16
16
2020
02:22 AM
2
02
22
AM
PDT
EG, et al, it is clear that you have been consistently unresponsive to evidence, reports, citations and links provided over the span of several months. In the end that is telling, especially for people who almost certainly have repeatedly seen physicians and have been exposed to symptom and sign based differential diagnosis many times. In the end, in the face of need to respond reasonably, that tells. It tells, not only on the immediate issue CV19, but on other current issues. Further, it tells us a lot on the dynamics behind unresponsiveness to key evidence regarding the design inference, such as the discovery of alphanumeric, algorithmic code in the heart of the living cell (a linguistic phenomenon!). It similarly tells, regarding obvious problems in responding to first duties of reason, as regards truth, right reason, prudence [as opposed to biased, selective hyperskepticism], sound conscience, neighbour, fairness, justice. Immediately, the response to Drs Raoult, Zelenko, Lozano and many others says something. More deeply, we here can see through a window into the breakdown of serious worldviews reflection i/l/o comparative difficulties. All of this points to rationality and responsibility deficits that are coming due for our civilisation. KFkairosfocus
June 16, 2020
June
06
Jun
16
16
2020
02:11 AM
2
02
11
AM
PDT
RP
Evolutionary scientists have published research on the novel coronavirus. I wonder if Creation Scientists have done the same.
UD should be required reading for all medical researchers. How else will they learn about all this science?Ed George
June 15, 2020
June
06
Jun
15
15
2020
09:50 PM
9
09
50
PM
PDT
The question still remains: if you say HCQ must be administered before the virus gets too deep a hold then by what criteria do you decide to administer it? Just say8ing before symptoms get too bad isn’t a clinical criteria. What symptoms are you talking about?
I suggest you read up on the virus. A good source is the Eastern Virginia Medical School It discusses symptoms and recommended treatments at various stages of the infection. https://bit.ly/2CbCKMl I also highly recommend the MedCram videos. There are over 80 now and he constantly updates based on recent findings. By the way Google just censored Zelenko's latest video on his medical crowd sourcing. It doesn't meet community standards. I downloaded it knowing this might happen.jerry
June 15, 2020
June
06
Jun
15
15
2020
08:16 PM
8
08
16
PM
PDT
Lynch's Irish Pub in Jacksonville Beach closed Saturday for professional cleaning after a social media post claimed that a number of customers had tested positive for the virus. Erika Crisp, a customer who attended the bar on June 6, has since tested positive for the virus and said that she visited the bar with a group of 15 people for a birthday party. Crisp said that ten people in the group have tested positive for the virus. Crisp, who works in the healthcare industry, said that she started noticing symptoms after visiting Lynch's and said that she must have gotten it from the bar as otherwise, it would be too coincidental that so many partygoers had tested positive. "I feel like an idiot. I know that I’ve been so cautious up until now, and with Florida opening back up it’s kind of that whole out of sight out of mind," she told News4Ajax. https://www.irishcentral.com/news/major-covid-outbreak-florida-irish-pub-reopeningrhampton7
June 15, 2020
June
06
Jun
15
15
2020
08:10 PM
8
08
10
PM
PDT
Your “stitch-in-time” analogy. Add to this the fact that administering it before infection to high risk people has zero prophylactic ability and you have a treatment that is of minimal value, if it has any value at all.
This is the third time you have brought this up and it is still nonsense the third time. There are about a million doctors and another couple hundred thousand nurse practitioners and physician assistants in the US. They could easily see the entire country in about 2 weeks time if necessary but 70% will not be necessary to see and of the remaining most won't be symptomatic at the same time if at all. So each one would have to see about 30-40 people a week for a few weeks. Easily done. There are about 4 million nurses to help too. I know that most would not be called upon to see Covid patients but they could in a national emergency. So to assess all that are symptomatic would be tedious but not near impossible. You still apparently don't understand what is happening.jerry
June 15, 2020
June
06
Jun
15
15
2020
08:07 PM
8
08
07
PM
PDT
RP:
Evolutionary scientists have published research on the novel coronavirus.
So what? It's a given that blind watchmaker evolution didn't help them in that research. They don't have any idea how blind and mindless processes could produce such a virus. RP is just another equivocator, clueless about what is being debated with respect to ID and evolutionism.ET
June 15, 2020
June
06
Jun
15
15
2020
08:01 PM
8
08
01
PM
PDT
One of the great things about getting a science education
Well my undergraduate degree was in math and physics and I was in a PhD program in mathematics. While mathematics provides a degree of certainly science certainly does not. Physics is the closest and even it has issues. Biology and Medicine are far less certain since life is the most complicated thing in the universe we are aware of and the human body one of the most complicated examples of life if not the most complicated. I dropped out of the PhD program to go in the Navy and ended up with an MBA afterwards. One of the main things I learned in business was about people and when to recognize inconsistent patterns in how they acted. I was in a business that involved an aspect of biology, energy metabolism and could not find one person on the planet who has a coherent answer about how biological energy systems worked to produce certain types of movement. I got one inconsistent answer after the other till I was about to give up and then I saw someone in Belgium who seemed to have the answer. He did. I have watched Zelenko and either he is extremely honest or one of the greatest charlatans that has existed. He seems to be on to something. Maybe he exaggerates his findings but they have been scrutinized by several and he has a host of adherents from the medical community. What I see on the opposite side is a lot of posturing and inconsistent statements with perhaps the greatest fraud of all, the Lancet Study. How did such a fiasco happen? Why does the medical community misrepresent the data and the research? I find this the most interesting. What are the pressures on them to do so? Why are they hiding the truth whatever it might be? Nobody seems to care how many people die as long as certain narratives prevail. It's a little scary.jerry
June 15, 2020
June
06
Jun
15
15
2020
07:54 PM
7
07
54
PM
PDT
COVID-19 has led to much more hospitalizations and deaths among those with reported underlying health conditions, according to a new report of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) on Monday. The report analyzed demographic characteristics, underlying health conditions, symptoms, and outcomes among 1,320,488 laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 cases individually reported to CDC from Jan. 22 to May 30. According to the report, hospitalizations were six times higher and deaths 12 times higher among those with reported underlying conditions compared with those with none reported. Among COVID-19 cases, the most common underlying health conditions were cardiovascular disease, diabetes, and chronic lung disease, according to the CDC. http://www.ecns.cn/m/news/society/2020-06-16/detail-ifzxfksr7317354.shtmlrhampton7
June 15, 2020
June
06
Jun
15
15
2020
07:41 PM
7
07
41
PM
PDT
Evolutionary scientists have published research on the novel coronavirus. I wonder if Creation Scientists have done the same.Retired Physicist
June 15, 2020
June
06
Jun
15
15
2020
07:36 PM
7
07
36
PM
PDT
That happens a lot with the proponents of evolutionism. However, they seem incapable of learning from it. It definitely hasn't made them any smarter.ET
June 15, 2020
June
06
Jun
15
15
2020
06:31 PM
6
06
31
PM
PDT
One of the great things about getting a science education is that you will be confronted with the fact, sometime, that you were 100% certain of X, and X is wrong. It forces you to understand you have intellectual weaknesses, and just because you think something is true doesn’t make it so. I really wish everyone could have those experiences, because I think it would make a lot of people a lot smarter.Retired Physicist
June 15, 2020
June
06
Jun
15
15
2020
06:19 PM
6
06
19
PM
PDT
KF
JVL, medical doctors routinely make relevant judgements. KF
True. But doctors don’t routinely see people with mild symptoms of flu or cold-like diseases. During a typical flu season, there aren’t enough doctors available to see everyone who is presenting with a fever and cough. And based on the evidence, if HCQ has a positive effect, it must be administered at the very early stage of the infection. Your “stitch-in-time” analogy. Add to this the fact that administering it before infection to high risk people has zero prophylactic ability and you have a treatment that is of minimal value, if it has any value at all.Ed George
June 15, 2020
June
06
Jun
15
15
2020
05:18 PM
5
05
18
PM
PDT
JVL, medical doctors routinely make relevant judgements. KFkairosfocus
June 15, 2020
June
06
Jun
15
15
2020
04:47 PM
4
04
47
PM
PDT
1 … 17 18 19 20 21 22