Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

Gambler’s ruin is Darwin’s ruin

Share
Facebook
Twitter
LinkedIn
Flipboard
Print
Email

The same day I first watched “Expelled” in theaters, I also watched the movie “21”. The movie “21” is based on the true story of MIT students who made a fortune in Las Vegas casinos through the use of mathematics.

The real story behind the movie began with an associate of Claude Shannon by the name of Dr. Edward O. Thorp of MIT. In the Early 60’s, Thorp published a landmark mathematical treatise on how to beat casinos. His research was so successful that Las Vegas casinos shut down many of their card tables for an entire year until they could devise counter measures to impede Thorp’s mathematics.

Thorp is arguably the greatest gambler of all time. He extended his gambling science to the stock market and made a fortune. His net worth is in the fractional to low billions. He is credited with some independent discoveries which were the foundation to the Black-Scholes-Merton equation relating heat transfer thermodynamics to stock option pricing. The equation won the Nobel prize and was the subject of the documentary: The Trillion Dollar Bet.

Thorp would probably be even richer today if Rudy Gulliani had not falsely implicated him in the racketeering scandal involving Michael Milken. Thorp, by the way, keeps a dartboard with Gulliani’s picture on it… 🙂

The relevance of Thorp’s math to Darwinism is that Thorp was a pioneer of risk management (which he used to create the world’s first hedge fund). In managing a hedge fund or managing the wagers in casinos, one is confronted with the mathematically defined problem of Gambler’s Ruin. The science of risk management allows a risk manager or a skilled gambler to defend against the perils gamblers ruin. Unfortunately for Darwinism, natural selection has little defense against the perils of gambler’s ruin.

Even if an individual has a statistical advantage over a casino game, it is possible the individual can lose. Let’s say a skilled player has a 1% advantage on average over the casino. He wanders into the casino, looks for a favorable opportunity and wagers $500,000.00.

If he has a 1% statistical advantage, that means he has a 50.5% chance of winning and a 49.5% chance of losing. Even though he has a slight edge, he still has a very substantial chance of losing. It would be unwise to bet $500,000.00 if that is his life savings!

The movie “21” romanticized the advantage skilled players have. The movie “21” portrayed the MIT students as people who could sit at card tables and bilk casinos like ATM machines. That’s not how it works as testified by one of the more noteworthy members of the real MIT team by the name of Andy Bloch. Bloch reported that during his tenure as manager of the MIT team, the team was once in the red for 9 months before recovering. Skilled players lose big bets not quite 50% of the time. It is not unusual, on average, to have a losing streak of 8 hands in a row every 256 rounds. Ben Mezrich reported in his book, Bringing Down the House, an incident where the Big Player of the MIT team lost 3 hands in a row in 45 seconds of play for a sum total of $120,000.00! It happens…

A skilled player with a 1% advantage might expect to play 50,000 hands before his expected value exceeds the effect of one standard deviation of bad luck. That means he might have to play a looooong time before he realizes a profit….

What does this have to do with Darwinism? Darwin argued that

Natural selection acts only by taking advantage of slight successive variations; she can never take a great and sudden leap, but must advance by short and sure, though slow steps.”

But that is complete nonsense mathematically speaking because of the problem of gambler’s ruin. It is not surprising that Darwin could not see the flaw in his argument because he could not even do high school algebra even after substantial effort. The lack of basic math and logic pervades his flawed theory.

The problem is that a selectively-advantaged traits are still subject to random events. The most basic random event is with whether a parent will even pass down a gene to a child in the first place! Added to that problem is the nature of random events in general. A genetically advantaged individual may die by accident, get consumed by a predator, etc.

And the problem gets worse. Even if selectively advantage traits get spread to a small percentage of the population, it still has a strong chance of being wiped out by the sum total of random events. The mathematics of gambler’s ruin helped clarify the effect of random “selection” on natural selection.

Without going into details, I’ll quote the experts who investigated the issues. Consider the probability a selectively advantaged trait will survive in a population a mere 7 generations after it emerges:

if a mutant gene is selectively neutral the probability is 0.79 that it will be lost from the population
….
if the mutant gene has a selective advantage of 1%, the probability of loss during the fist seven generations is 0.78. As compared with the neutral mutant, this probability of extinction [with natural selection] is less by only .01 [compared to extinction by purely random events].
….

Theoretical Aspects of Population Genetics
Motoo Kimura and Tomoko Ohta

This means is that natural selection is only slightly better than random chance. Darwin was absolutely wrong to suggest that the emergence of a novel trait will be preserved in most cases. It will not! Except for extreme selection pressures (like antibiotic resistance, pesticide resistance, anti-malaria drug resistance), selection fails to make much of an impact.

The contrast between a skilled gambler and natural selection is that a skilled player can wager small fractions of the money he sets aside for his trade. If a skilled gambler has $50,000, he might wager $100 at a time until the law of large numbers causes his statistical advantage to be asserted. He can attempt many many trials until his advantage eventually prevails. In this manner a skilled gambler can protect himself against the mathematics of gamblers ruin.

But natural selection is a blind watchmaker. It does not know how to perform risk management like a skilled player or the great math wizard, Edward Thorp. For natural selection to succeed in the way Thorp succeeded in the great casinos of Nevada and Wall Street, it has to hope the same mutant appears spontaneously many many times in many individuals. But for complex genes, this doesn’t happen. Truly novel and beneficial mutations are rare. They don’t repeat themselves very often, and when they arise, they will likely be wiped out unless there is fairly intense selection pressure (like we see in pesticide resistance or anti-biotic resistance or anti-malaria drug resistance, or malaria resistance associated with sickle cell anemia).

A further constraint on selective advantage of a given trait is the problem of selection interference and dilution of selective advantage if numerous traits are involved. If one has a population of 1000 individuals and each has a unique, novel, selectively-advantaged trait that emerged via mutation, one can see this leads to an impasse –selection can’t possibly work in such a situation since all the individuals effectively cancel out each other’s selective advantage.

This illustrates that there has to be a limit to the number of innovations appearing in a population simultaneously for selection to work. The emergence of advantageous mutations in a population has the net effect of diluting the selective advantage of all the traits.

If trait A has a large selective advantage in relation to trait B, trait A dilutes the selective advantage of trait B. Thus trait B is exposed more and more to gambler’s ruin because of the existence of trait A. For example an individual with better eyesight (trait A) might prevail over an individual with higher intelligence (trait B). An otherwise good trait (intelligence) is lost because another trait (good eyesight) interferes with the ability of that trait (intelligence) to be maintained…

Thus one can see the problem of many “slight advantageous traits” being necessarily “slight” because of the problem of interference. But “slight” implies they are subject to gambler’s ruin, and thus unlikely to be preserved as Darwin asserted. Thus Darwin was dead wrong….

John Sanford gives a more rigorous treatment in his book Genetic Entropy where he gives more exact numbers on the limits of selective advantage based on problems such as interference. Sanford shows that a 1% selective advantage is fairly generous, and is usually less than 1%. [I emphasize the word “usually”].

Most ironic is that Fisher’s analysis of the effect of gambler’s ruin essentially trashes his own theorem, Fisher’s Fundamental Theorem of Natural Selection. Fisher’s Malthusian notions of “fitness” in his fundamental theorem do not account for the effect of random events taking out selectively advantaged traits. The fundamental theorem assumes evolution is noise free with respect to fitness, that advantageous traits always result in more offspring. We know empirically and theoretically this cannot possibly be true even on the approximate model of Mendelian inheritance.

For reasons such as those I laid out, many believe molecular evolution had to be mostly invisible to selection. Attributing even 5% of molecular evolution to Darwinism would be extremely generous. See: Kimura’s Neutral Theory.

Kimura gave an obligatory salute to Darwin by claiming adaptational features (like morphology) are exempt from his math. I’ve seen nothing supporting Kimura’s obligatory salute to Darwin. It seems his neutralist ideas apply quite well to realms beyond the molecular. NAS member Masotoshi Nei has finally been bold enough to assert most everything else about evolution, not just molecular evolution, is under much less selection pressure than previously assumed. I think Nei is right.

Yesterday afternoon I showed Kimura’s books to an ID-friendly senior in biology. His jaw dropped. He had studied molecular genetics, but our conversation yesterday helped him make the connections he had not made before. The math clearly indicates Darwin couldn’t possibly be right, and by way of extension, neither can Richard Dawkins.

These fairly obvious considerations were not lost upon Michael Lynch:

the uncritical acceptance of natural selection as an explanatory force for all aspects of biodiversity (without any direct evidence) is not much different than invoking an intelligent designer

Michael Lynch
The Origins of Genome Architecture, p 368

Notes:

1. I created a Microsoft Excel Spreadsheet is provided for illustration of these concepts. I used a random number generator to simulate the progress of 10 equally skilled gamblers in a casino. Press the “F9” to redraw the graph. One can see that even “selectively” advantaged individuals can lose. The important thing to grasp is that “slight selective” advantages do not look very different from random walks except in the long run. The problem for natural selection in the wild is that there usually is no “long run” for a newly emerged trait if it suffers from gamblers ruin. The “long run” exists for skilled and intelligent risk managers like Edward Thorp, it does not exist, statistically speaking, for most selectively advantageous traits.

A copy of my spreadsheet can be accessed here.

Sometimes pressing “F9” will cause most of the gamblers to win, and other time it will cause most of them to lose. This underscores the strong effect of random events even when one possess an inherent statistical advantage such as a gambling skill or a selectively advantaged trait.

2. Here is a nice pic of Bill with a standard casino die.

In the 1970’s, casinos had to redesign their craps tables in order to foil skilled dice throwers who exploited slightly non-random behaviors of dice. Las Vegas laws were passed that prevented skilled players from using there specially designed tosses which would exhibit non-random, statistically advantageous behavior.

Some people still claim to be able to influence dice so as to create non-random outcomes in a legal way. However, even skilled crap shooters need principles of risk management and precautions against gambler’s ruin to succeed.

[UPDATE:

1. 5/5/08 World Renowned Geneticist Joe Felsenstein responds to my essay here: Gambler’s Ruin is Darwin’s Gain.

2. 5/5/08 HT: ICON-RIDS:

Natural Selection is daily and hourly scrutinising, throughout the world, the slightest variations; rejecting those that are bad, preserving and adding up all that are good.

C.DARWIN sixth edition Origin of Species — Ch#4 Natural Selection

This is an even better quote showing how wrong Darwin was in light of these discussions.

See: this comment

3. Thanks to pantrog of PT for his editorial correction about sickle cell anemia. That was my editorial mistake not seeing it in the first place. My error was pointed out here here.

4. 5/8/08 One could easily modify the spreadsheet to stop progress when zero is hit, except if I did this, one would not easily see all the lines since most of them abort early thus giving a misleading impression of large scale progress. See this comment:
Comment about Spreadsheet

5. I wrote: If he has a 1% statistical advantage, that means he has a 50.5% chance of winning and a 49.5% chance of losing. To clarify, the outcomes are complicated by double-downs, splits, and blackjacks, etc. so the notion of “win” in this thread is effective average win over time per round….I didn’t want to get into these deep specifics earlier as it was peripheral to the thread…

6. 5/31/08 In response to various comments by those at UD and PandasThumb, I created another spreadsheet with some improvements. See the improvements at: ruin_olegt_mod1.xls. The princple changes were in response to suggestions by a very fine physicist by the name of Olegt who sometimes posts at TelicThoughts and PT. The new simulation has more rounds and actually prevents a player from playing once he is ruined.

]

Comments
The criticism has been offered that "natural selection is a tautology". I argue it is too charitable to say natural selection is a tautology. Tautologies are at least self consistent. They are of the form:
E = E
A contradiction, a nonsensical statement, an oxymoron is of the form
E = not-E
A "square circle" is an inherently nonsensical statement. Darwinian evolution is not even logically self-consistent to be elevated to the status of tautology, much less a serious scientific theory. I think it more appropriate to say Darwinism is inherently incosistent. Berlinski said as much in the move Expelled: "The question is whether the theory is clearly stated enough that it has a chance of being correct." What Kimura and others demonstrated is that even granting that natural selection works on occasion, the problem of "random selection" is quantifiably large enough to render "natural selection" almost irrelevant. Darwin said the majority mechanism is natural selection, but Darwin was wrong. Natural selection is not even the majority mechanism, it is not even 5%, it may not even be 1%. "Random selection" overpowers "natural selection". As the saying goes, "it's better to be lucky than good." The next time someone says, "Darwinian Evolution is non-Random", give them some lessons in the concepts of Gamblers ruin. It is instructive to note how Dawkins skirted Kimura's work in his book Blinkwatchmaker. Dawkins devotes 1.5 pages or so and uses masterful rhetorical spin to address the very body of literature that destroys his main thesis. Dawkins was helped of course by Kimura's obligatory salute. Kimura said his theory applied to molecular evolution not adaptational evolution. Logical? No. Politically and intellectually expedient. Absolutely. Dawkins spin:
the great Japanese geneticist Motoo Kimura... As far as we [we selectionist ultra-Darwinists] are concerned, a neutral mutation might as well not exist, because neither we, nor natural selection can see it. A neutral mutation isn't a mutation at all, when we are thinking about legs and arms and wings and behavior! To use the recipe analogy again, the dish will taste the same even if some of the word of the recipe have 'mutated' to a different print font. Molecular geneticists [like Kimura and Michael Lynch] are like pernickety printers. The care about the actual form of the words in which recipes are written down. Natural selection doesn't care, and nor should we when we are talking about the evolution of adaptation. page 303-304
This was a brilliant "rebuttal" by Dawkins, not because what he said was true, but because he masterfully evaded the core issues and made it appear all is well in the church of Darwin. Even if we grant that Kimura might personally agree with Dawkins, Kimura's math says something else. Dawkins says natural selection may not care about neutral mutations. That is not the real issue. The real issue is that natural selection is mostly impotent when "random selection" is factored in. The fact of "random selection" leads to the mathematical proof that neutral muations must be the majority. But lost in the shuffle is also the fact that "random selection" makes natural selection a weak minority player in evolution. As an aside, Dawkins says the rival to Darwinian evolution is mutationism (mutation without much selection). That is Nei's position.
It is hard to comprehend now but, in the early years of this century when the phenomenon of mutation was first named, it was not regarded as a necessary part of Darwinian theory but an alternative theory of evolution!
That's partly because Darwin believed in the inheritance of acquired traits, not the mordern theories of inheritance. Neo-Darwinism relies on mutation, whereas Darwin-Darwinism emphasized acquired traits (or some other flawed notion of inheritance).... All of this ended up being a smokescreen in that so much attention was focused on "random mutation" that the real problem, the problem of "random selection" was lost in the fray. But "random selection" is anathema to the idea of the guiding hand of "natural selection." It is thus not surprising, focus was directed away from the fact that selection is mosly random, not "natural" in the Darwinian sense. Again we see equivocation and obfuscation and confusion in the term "natural" selection. "Natural selection" in the Darwinian sense is not what happens in nature. Darwin used equivocation and double-speak to justify his theory....he did not use sound logic or math.scordova
May 4, 2008
May
05
May
4
04
2008
11:55 AM
11
11
55
AM
PDT
Jerry you stated: If this is true, then these deleterious mutations should show up in the genomes of various related species. For example, there are speculations that there are as many as 300,000 species of beetles. All these deleterious mutations should be in evidence in their genomes. If they are not found in these genomes or genomes of other related species or only represent a small insignificant part of the genomes then Dr. Sanford’s ideas may be suspect. In the few studies I have been able to look at this "Genetic Entropy" principle holds up, i.e. loss of information (genetic diversity) is always found for younger "species". In fact, the differences of human races we find that the younger races (Chinese, Europeans, American Indians, etc.. etc..) are losing genetic information for skin color when compared to the original race of humans that is thought to have migrated out of east Africa some 50,000 years ago. "We found an enormous amount of diversity within and between the African populations, and we found much less diversity in non-African populations," Tishkoff told attendees today (Jan. 22) at the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science in Anaheim. "Only a small subset of the diversity in Africa is found in Europe and the Middle East, and an even narrower set is found in American Indians." Tishkoff; Andrew Clark, Penn State; Kenneth Kidd, Yale University; Giovanni Destro-Bisol, University "La Sapienza," Rome, and Himla Soodyall and Trefor Jenkins, WITS University, South Africa, looked at three locations on DNA samples from 13 to 18 populations in Africa and 30 to 45 populations in the remainder of the world. This fact is totally contrary to what we would expect to find if the variation found in the sub-species were truly wrought by random mutations in the DNA generating novel information for variability! And this result is to be totally expected if the parent species were indeed created with a certain amount of flexibility for adaptation to differing environments already programmed in its genetic code! Yet, naturalists conveniently ignore the hard conclusive fact that the variation in the sub-species or pure breed is severely limited when it is compared to the much larger variability that is found in the parent species. as well as this: African cichlid fish: a model system in adaptive radiation research http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1635482 of special note: Interestingly, ecological opportunity (the availability of an unoccupied adaptive zone), though explaining rates of diversification in radiating lineages, is alone not sufficient to predict whether a radiation occurs. The available data suggest that the propensity to undergo adaptive radiation in lakes evolved sequentially along one branch in the phylogenetic tree of African cichlids, but is completely absent in other lineages. Instead of attributing the propensity for intralacustrine speciation to morphological or behavioural innovations, it is tempting to speculate that the propensity is explained by genomic properties that reflect a history of repeated episodes of lacustrine radiation: the propensity to radiate was significantly higher in lineages whose precursors emerged from more ancient adaptive radiations than in other lineages. Thus as you can see, the evolutionists are mystified that the radiations are not happening for "sub-species" of cichlids but are always radiating from the "more ancient" lineage. This fits in perfectly with Genetic Entropy. This principle also holds for the genetic studies of wolfs/dogs and sheep I have looked at i.e. sub-speciation always comes at a loss of genetic diversity from the more ancient lineage. (loss of genetic information) As well this following study is very interesting in that it shows genetic entropy being obeyed in trilobites over their 270 million run in the fossil rcord: In fact, i think The principle of Genetic Entropy allows us to trace the CSI to point of implementation with a large amount of confidence. A Cambrian Peak in Morphological Variation Within Trilobite Species Mark Webster http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/317/5837/499 This following study is excellent for Genetic Entropy proof! It is a study of trilobites over their 270 million year history in the fossil record since their "abrupt" appearance at the beginning on the Cambrian explosion. Of special note: It studies within species variation instead of just among species variation. Within species morphological variation, over deep time, for the entire spectrum of trilobites, gives us a peak at CSI "degeneration" within trilobites over their 270 million year history. It follows Genetic Entropy to a "T"! "Early and Middle Cambrian trilobite species, especially, exhibited greater morphological variations than their descendants. This high within-species variation provided more raw material upon which natural selection could operate, Webster says, potentially accounting for the high rates of evolution in Cambrian trilobites. Such findings may have implications for our understanding of the nature of evolutionary processes, he says. Why the early trilobites were so morphologically diverse is a whole different mystery." Guess what we know the answer to the mystery! CSI degeneration aka Genetic Entropy! (Sanford 2005) And it gets even better if you go into the actual studies themselves you find all trilobites that branch off the "parent" trilobites species quickly lose variability that is found in the parent stock of trilobites. I am extremely confident that this study, when it is fully fleshed out in all its detail, will fit the ID/Genetic Entropy model perfectly (as well as supporting environmentally driven adaptations). http://www.geotimes.org/july07/article.html?id=WebExtra072707.htmlbornagain77
May 4, 2008
May
05
May
4
04
2008
11:43 AM
11
11
43
AM
PDT
You’re adding a second variable — multiple isolated populations — that confuses the issue.
In your original post you referred to populations in the plural, which I interpreted, incorrectly, as meaning several populations.
All this is beside the point, however. The point is that new mutations tend to be weeded out by genetic drift, and in order to survive, a mutation would need to be sufficiently advantageous to overcome this “stacking of the deck” by genetic drift.
Unless the relative fitness is large, this is the wrong way round. A new mutation is always going to suffer from drift, regardless of the population size. In a small population, however, it does not have to drift as far to get to fixation. So, the probability of fixing a new mutant increases as population size decreases. The smaller the population size, the larger the effect of drift, so the higher the probability that a new mutant becomes fixed. For a neutral mutation the probability of fixation in a diploid population is 1/2Ne, where Ne is the effective population size. For an advantageous mutation, the probability increases, but not significantly unless the relative fitness is quite large. The full analysis will depend on Ne and s, and I'm not going to check it right now!Bob O'H
May 4, 2008
May
05
May
4
04
2008
11:43 AM
11
11
43
AM
PDT
Further to #10, regarding beneficial vs non-beneficial mutations. Conceptually, the slope in each variational dimension can be positive, neutral or negative, as the configuration varies from a designed or evolved configuration. From a design perspective, a design principle is: Optimize the design i.e., a designed system would be expected to exhibit some degree of optimization. (Apparent lack of full optimization would likely be caused by failure to recognize the full design and optimization involved.) Consequently, variations (mutations) away from that design would result in poorer function than the design. Consequently nearby mutations would be harmful or have a negative fitness relative to the designed system. Similarly in neo-Darwinian evolution, biotic systems that are "more fit" locally, would show a reduced fitness for immediate variations away from that configuration. In both cases, the local "fitness" has a local "hill" or upwardly convex surface. Deviations from the local configuration have a lower or negative fitness, resulting in a locally negative slope away from the design or evolved configuration. Consequently, in the gambler's scenario described, the gambler has a disadvantage relative to the house, not an advantage. Applying this to the model design hypothesis, local variation from a designed system will experience a negative slope and local reduction in function. Similarly with the "fitness" of an "evolved" structure. The challenge for evolution is how to "jump" from one configurational mountain to the next configurational mountain - when then the variation required to move away from the local mountain results in substantial variational regional of negative slope in function or a reduced fitness. When looking at the map of genomic space, the designed functions are more like tiny mesas of function amid vast deserts of intermediate non-functional space. Darwinists would posit that variations in environment might change the relative fitness space to give a locally positive slope towards another evolved species with locally beneficial fitness. However the mathematical probabilities of such movement are daunting to say the least. If we consider bridging the very strong species barriers, combined with the local negative slopes away from a design or local fitness, the odds become astronomically small. So back to the gamblers ruin, it would help to show the next steps of modeling hillocks and cusps in local design or fitness space which must be overcome to bridge from one design to the next, or one evolved configuration to the next. Combine this locally negative slope with Behe's "tentative molecular edge of evolution" of 10^30 or so trials, (Edge of Evolution 2007, Fig. 7.4 on p 144.) Neo-Darwinists nominally have to show a rising "ridge" of beneficial mutations to vary the system from one evolved configuration to the next evolved configuration for each achievable variation parameters (e.g., for each codon in a gene, and for each gene of a system). The actual code space of distantly spaced mesas rapidly negates such "Just-so" speculation. Consequently, the probability of systems evolving from one species to another species rapidly goes to zero (towards 1/infinity). Conversely, the probability of preserving an optimized design tends towards one (i.e., towards 1-1/infinity).DLH
May 4, 2008
May
05
May
4
04
2008
11:05 AM
11
11
05
AM
PDT
Jerry: Within a population of a species, genetic drift will cause the population to become more homogeneous as certain variants of an allele are eliminated but it will be non homogeneous with other sister populations that faced different situations. Bingo.ungtss
May 4, 2008
May
05
May
4
04
2008
10:22 AM
10
10
22
AM
PDT
bornagain77, "As well, what is crushing to the “beneficial mutation scenario” is “slightly deleterious mutations” are far below the power of natural selection to remove from the genome. Thus if a hypothetical “truly” beneficial mutation, it would be of no benefit from a progressive Darwinian scenario since this multitude of slightly deleterious mutations will be far below the power of natural selection to remove from the Genome (Sanford 2005)" If this is true, then these deleterious mutations should show up in the genomes of various related species. For example, there are speculations that there are as many as 300,000 species of beetles. All these deleterious mutations should be in evidence in their genomes. If they are not found in these genomes or genomes of other related species or only represent a small insignificant part of the genomes then Dr. Sanford's ideas may be suspect. Also by studying the genomes of various related species one will eventually be able to determine just what makes each different since the vast majority of the genomes will probably be very similar. This research is getting to be within the reach of modern biology as over 4500 genomes have been mapped and more are coming on line each day. There is speculation that the cost to map a genome may get as low as a thousand dollars in the near future and the computer programs to easily analyze them may be forthcoming too. So the proof will be in the pudding. Meanwhile the beetles seem to be doing just fine.jerry
May 4, 2008
May
05
May
4
04
2008
10:19 AM
10
10
19
AM
PDT
Bob Oh: No, genetic drift is the tendency for allele frequencies to change randomly, because of finite sampling. The effect is for populations to become less homogeneous over time. Different “minority variants” become fixed in different populations. You're adding a second variable -- multiple isolated populations -- that confuses the issue. Individual populations become more homogenous over time due to genetic drift, because minority variants are weeded out. If you have multiple isolated populations, each of the isolated populations will become more homogenous over time -- although they will likely become homogenous with respect to different sets of traits from other, isolated populations. All this is beside the point, however. The point is that new mutations tend to be weeded out by genetic drift, and in order to survive, a mutation would need to be sufficiently advantageous to overcome this "stacking of the deck" by genetic drift.ungtss
May 4, 2008
May
05
May
4
04
2008
10:04 AM
10
10
04
AM
PDT
scordova From what I understand of your excellent post on the Gambler's ruin, the biotic analogy of the relative size of the bet would be the size of the individual entity being mutated to the total population. Thus "evolution" for the small chance it has might work in a small way in bacteria where there are very large populations and the "bet" is small. However, as we get to larger organisms, the relative population drops precipitously. Behe (Edge of Evolution 2007, p 153) states:
Workers at the University of Georgia estimates of 10^30 single-celled organisms produced every year; over the billion-year-plus history of the earth, the total number of cells that have existed may be close to 10^40.
By contrast, the elephant population was about 3 million in 1960 (and dropped since then by poaching to a few hundred thousand.) Local herds are that much smaller - and an elephant mutation is a correspondingly larger "bet" than a single cell mutation.DLH
May 4, 2008
May
05
May
4
04
2008
09:48 AM
9
09
48
AM
PDT
Bob O'H, "No, genetic drift is the tendency for allele frequencies to change randomly, because of finite sampling. The effect is for populations to become less homogeneous over time. Different “minority variants” become fixed in different populations." I just want to clarify something. When you use the word 'populations' it is in the plural. Are you referring to separate populations of the same species that may be separated from each other as opposed to using it in a general way to refer to populations of several species. Within a population of a species, genetic drift will cause the population to become more homogeneous as certain variants of an allele are eliminated but it will be non homogeneous with other sister populations that faced different situations. And as a population breaks off from a mother population wouldn't the sub population become more homogeneous a large percentage of the time. It may not have some of the variants of the mother population and being smaller would be more likely to succumb to genetic drift and natural selection might eliminate certain alleles faster if it is in a new environment.jerry
May 4, 2008
May
05
May
4
04
2008
09:43 AM
9
09
43
AM
PDT
As well, what is crushing to the "beneficial mutation scenario" is "slightly deleterious mutations" are far below the power of natural selection to remove from the genome. Thus if a hypothetical "truly" beneficial mutation, it would be of no benefit from a progressive Darwinian scenario since this multitude of slightly deleterious mutations will be far below the power of natural selection to remove from the Genome (Sanford 2005)bornagain77
May 4, 2008
May
05
May
4
04
2008
08:39 AM
8
08
39
AM
PDT
Your spreadsheet doesn't reflect the Gambler's ruin problem exactly: a path which reaches zero should stay at zero.DiEb
May 4, 2008
May
05
May
4
04
2008
08:38 AM
8
08
38
AM
PDT
cont.. The human genome, according to Bill Gates the founder of Microsoft, far, far surpasses in complexity any computer program ever written by man. The data compression (multiple meanings) of some stretches of human DNA is estimated to be up to 12 codes thick (Trifonov, 1989)! No line of computer code ever written by man approaches that level of data compression (poly-functional complexity). Further evidence for the inherent complexity of the DNA is found in a another study. In June 2007, a international team of scientists, named ENCODE, published a study that indicates the genome contains very little unused sequences and, in fact, is a complex, interwoven network. This “complex interwoven network” throughout the entire DNA code makes the human genome severely poly-constrained to random mutations (Sanford; Genetic Entropy, 2005; page 141). This means the DNA code is now much more severely limited in its chance of ever having a hypothetical beneficial mutation since almost the entire DNA code is now proven to be intimately connected to many other parts of the DNA code. Thus even though a random mutation to DNA may be able to change one part of an organism for the better, it is now proven much more likely to harm many other parts of the organism that depend on that one particular part being as it originally was. Since evolution was forced, by the established proof of Mendelian genetics, to no longer view the whole organism as to what natural selection works upon, but to view the whole organism as a multiple independent collection of genes that can be selected or discarded as natural selection sees fit, this “complex interwoven network” finding is extremely bad news, if not absolutely crushing, for the population genetics scenario of evolution (modern neo-Darwinian synthesis) developed by Haldane, Fisher and Wright (page 52 and 53: Genetic Entropy: Sanford 2005)! http://www.genome.gov/25521554 BETHESDA, Md., Wed., June 13, 2007 -" An international research consortium today published a set of papers that promise to reshape our understanding of how the human genome functions. The findings challenge the traditional view of our genetic blueprint as a tidy collection of independent genes, pointing instead to a complex network in which genes, along with regulatory elements and other types of DNA sequences that do not code for proteins, interact in overlapping ways not yet fully understood." http://www.boston.com/news/globe/health_science/articles/2007/09/24/dna_unraveled/?page=1 "The science of life is undergoing changes so jolting that even its top researchers are feeling something akin to shell-shock. Just four years after scientists finished mapping the human genome - the full sequence of 3 billion DNA "letters" folded within every cell - they find themselves confronted by a biological jungle deeper, denser, and more difficult to penetrate than anyone imagined."bornagain77
May 4, 2008
May
05
May
4
04
2008
08:29 AM
8
08
29
AM
PDT
Is there any research you could point me to to show the statistics of a mutation being beneficial? "I have seen estimates of the incidence of the ratio of deleterious-to-beneficial mutations which range from one in one thousand up to one in one million. The best estimates seem to be one in one million (Gerrish and Lenski, 1998). The actual rate of beneficial mutations is so extremely low as to thwart any actual measurement (Bataillon, 2000, Elena et al, 1998). Therefore, I cannot ...accurately represent how rare such beneficial mutations really are." (Sanford; Genetic Entropy page 24) The fate of competing beneficial mutations in an asexual population (Philip J. Gerrish & Richard E. Lenski) "Clonal interference is not the only dynamic that inhibits the progression of beneficialmutations to fixation in an asexual population.Asimilar inhibition may be caused by Muller’s ratchet (Muller, 1964; Haigh, 1978), in which deleterious mutations will tend to accumulate in small asexual populations. As shown by Manning and Thompson (1984) and by Peck (1994), the fate of a beneficial mutation is determined as much by the selective disadvantage of any deleterious mutations with which it is linked as by its own selective advantage." http://myxo.css.msu.edu/lenski/pdf/1998,%20Genetica,%20Gerrish%20&%20Lenski.pdf Estimation of spontaneous genome-wide mutation rate parameters: whither beneficial mutations? (Thomas Bataillon) Abstract ......It is argued that, although most if not all mutations detected in mutation accumulation experiments are deleterious, the question of the rate of favourable mutations (and their effects) is still a matter for debate. http://www.nature.com/hdy/journal/v84/n5/full/6887270a.html High Frequency of Cryptic Deleterious Mutations in Caenorhabditis elegans ( Esther K. Davies, Andrew D. Peters, Peter D. Keightley) "In fitness assays, only about 4 percent of the deleterious mutations fixed in each line were detectable. The remaining 96 percent, though cryptic, are significant for mutation load...the presence of a large class of mildly deleterious mutations can never be ruled out. " http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/285/5434/1748 ” Bergman (2004) has studied the topic of beneficial mutations. Among other things, he did a simple literature search via Biological Abstracts and Medline. He found 453,732 “mutation” hits, but among these only 186 mentioned the word “beneficial” (about 4 in 10,000). When those 186 references were reviewed, almost all the presumed “beneficial mutations” were only beneficial in a very narrow sense- but each mutation consistently involved loss of function changes-hence loss of information.” Trying to find an actual "hard" number for the "truly" beneficial mutation rate is, in fact, what Dr. Behe tried to do in his book "The Edge of Evolution". Dr. Behe states in Edge of Evolution on page 135. Generating a single new cellular protein-protein binding site (in other words, generating a truly beneficial mutational event that would explain the generation of the complexity we see in life) is of the same order of difficulty or worse than the development of chloroquine resistance in the malarial parasite. That order of difficulty is put at 10^20 replications (births) of the malarial parasite, by Dr. Behe. Thus, the actual rate for "truly" beneficial mutations, that would account for the complexity we see in life, is far in excess of one-hundred-billion-billion mutational events. Thus, this one in a million number, that is often bantered about for “truly” beneficial mutations, is actually far, far too generous for the evolutionists to be using for their hypothetical calculations. In fact, from consistent findings such as these, it is increasingly apparent that Genetic Entropy is the overriding foundational rule for all of biology, with no exceptions at all, and that the belief in "truly" beneficial mutations is nothing more than wishful speculation on the naturalists part that has no foundation in empirical science whatsoever: The foundational rule of Genetic Entropy for biology can be stated something like this: All adaptations away from a parent species for a sub-species, which increase fitness to a particular environment, will always come at a loss of the original integrated complex information in the parent species genome. Professional evolutionary biologists are hard-pressed to cite even one clear-cut example of evolution through a beneficial mutation to DNA that would violate the principle of genetic entropy. Although evolutionists try to claim the lactase persistence mutation as a lonely example of a beneficial mutation in humans, lactase persistence is actually a loss of a instruction in the genome to turn the lactase enzyme off, so the mutation clearly does not violate genetic entropy. Yet at the same time, the evidence for the detrimental nature of mutations in humans is clearly overwhelming, for doctors have already cited over 3500 mutational disorders (Dr. Gary Parker). "Mutations" by Dr. Gary Parker http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/cfol/ch2-mutations.asp Mutations: The Raw Material for Evolution? http://www.icr.org/articles/print/3466/ “It is entirely in line with the al nature of naturally occurring mutations that extensive tests have agreed in showing the vast majority of them to be detrimental to the organisms in its job of surviving and reproducing, just as changes ally introduced into any artificial mechanism are predominantly harmful to its useful operation” H.J. Muller (Received a Nobel Prize for his work on mutations to DNA) “But there is no evidence that DNA mutations can provide the sorts of variation needed for evolution… There is no evidence for beneficial mutations at the level of macroevolution, but there is also no evidence at the level of what is commonly regarded as microevolution.” Jonathan Wells (PhD. Molecular Biology) "The neo-Darwinians would like us to believe that large evolutionary changes can result from a series of small events if there are enough of them. But if these events all lose information they can’t be the steps in the kind of evolution the neo-Darwin theory is supposed to explain, no matter how many mutations there are. Whoever thinks macroevolution can be made by mutations that lose information is like the merchant who lost a little money on every sale but thought he could make it up on volume." Dr. Lee Spetner (Ph.D. Physics - MIT)bornagain77
May 4, 2008
May
05
May
4
04
2008
08:26 AM
8
08
26
AM
PDT
Don’t forget about genetic drift. Genetic drift is the tendency of populations to become more homogenous over time
No, genetic drift is the tendency for allele frequencies to change randomly, because of finite sampling. The effect is for populations to become less homogeneous over time. Different "minority variants" become fixed in different populations.Bob O'H
May 4, 2008
May
05
May
4
04
2008
07:25 AM
7
07
25
AM
PDT
JH: In natural selection would it not be the case that in the long run, mutations that confer any sort of advantage at all will predominate over mutations that confer no advantage. Certainly it is understandable how even mutations conferring a 1% advantage will be wiped out in huge numbers. But if you look at the mutations that have been preserved, the “house advantage” would seem to dictate that those conferring any sort of advantage should predominate drastically. Don't forget about genetic drift. Genetic drift is the tendency of populations to become more homogenous over time -- minority variations are wiped out by stochiastic processes. In order for a new mutation to take over a whole population, it has to be so advantageous that it overcomes the general tendency of populations to weed out such mutations. Bottom line: genetic drift is another way the deck is stacked in favor of the original design, not the mutant.ungtss
May 4, 2008
May
05
May
4
04
2008
07:15 AM
7
07
15
AM
PDT
Scordova Great demonstration of the Doom of Darwin. Now encourage you to turn the argument around and argue the Design Defense. Take the foundational Design Principle of: "Preserve the Design". Apply the benefits of the Founder's Effect with sexual reproduction and DNA repair. Then show by the laws of large numbers or repeated replication etc. that the Design is Preserved relative to harmful mutations. (Within the limits of Sanford's Genetic Entropy, of increasing accumulation of harmful mutations.) Thus to the first order, I posit the following ID hypothesis: If the probability of a mutation being preserved is m (under neo-Darwinian evolution) Then the probability D of the Design under mutation being preserved is D=(1-m). As you showed that the mutation probability m being preserved goes to zero, the design preservation probability D=(1-m) will tend to 1. That is the general concept. Now turn it over to you mathematical types to work up the quantitative proofs and demonstrations.DLH
May 4, 2008
May
05
May
4
04
2008
06:30 AM
6
06
30
AM
PDT
I’m glad someone has done the research on the odds of a beneficial mutation taking over the population.
This was done in the 1960s - N.T.J. Bailey gives the results in one of his books.
Is there any research you could point me to to show the statistics of a mutation being beneficial?
Yes - there was a review last year. It's of the order of 1% or so, but the estimates vary, and it's difficult to get really good estimates, because mutations are rare in themselves.Bob O'H
May 4, 2008
May
05
May
4
04
2008
06:29 AM
6
06
29
AM
PDT
Or is that too broad of a term?
Yes, I'd say more precision is needed. We are looking for examples of mutations that are not only beneficial in relation to fitness but also in relation to the progressive/positive creation/significant (> UPB) modification of existing CSI. But that’s a different thing than the generally used “beneficial mutations”. If there is a generally-accepted term that encapsulates what you are looking for I’m not aware of it. It’s not CSI in general since that could be negative in relation to fitness. For example, if I were to tack a spoiler (like on a vehicle) and a retractable anchor onto a bird I think that would not be too beneficial… In Behe's new book, the majority of the examples he discussed involved destructive albeit positively selected mutations, but not all. Behe also discussed the antifreeze glycoprotein gene in Antarctic notothenioid fish. In short, he says that it looks reasonably convincing as an example of Darwinian evolution, but that it’s a relatively minor development, and probably marks the limit of what Darwinian processes can reasonably be expected to do in vertebrate populations. So what we’re primarily looking for is the limitations on “constructive” positively selected beneficial mutations. The Edge of Evolution is an estimate and it was derived from the limited positive evidence for Darwinian processes that we do possess. This estimate would of course be adjusted when new evidence comes into play or abandoned altogether if there is positive evidence that Darwinian processes are capable of large scale constructive positive evolution (or at least put in another category if it's ID-based). The bulk of the best examples of Darwinian evolution are destructive modifications like passive leaky pores (a foreign protein degrading the integrity of HIV’s membrane) and a leaky digestive system (P. falciparum self destructs when it’s system cannot properly dispose of toxins it is ingesting, so a leak apparently helps) that have a net positive effect under limited/temporary conditions (Behe terms this trench warfare). I personally believe that given a system intelligently constructed in a modular fashion (the system is designed for self-modification via the influence of external triggers) that Darwinian processes may be capable of more than this, but we do not have positive evidence for this concept yet. But that's foresighted non-Darwinian evolution in any case, and even if there are foresighted mechanisms for macroevolution they might be limited in scope.Patrick
May 4, 2008
May
05
May
4
04
2008
06:25 AM
6
06
25
AM
PDT
Thermodynamics and heat flow are two different areas of physics and mechanical engineering, with separately derived sets of equations for problem solution. Heat flow problems were classically defined for solids early on, but are also defined for other states of matter. The Black-Scholes-Merton equation is derived from the laws of heat flow. Thermodynamics is concerned with change of state, kinetic energy, potential energy, and energy conversion.groovamos
May 4, 2008
May
05
May
4
04
2008
06:13 AM
6
06
13
AM
PDT
Great article indeed. I thumbed it up on stumbleupon. I'm glad someone has done the research on the odds of a beneficial mutation taking over the population. But these statistics start out assuming a beneficial mutation has taken place. Is there any research you could point me to to show the statistics of a mutation being beneficial? Or is that too broad of a term?Noremacam
May 4, 2008
May
05
May
4
04
2008
05:38 AM
5
05
38
AM
PDT
Scordova, great article.Frost122585
May 4, 2008
May
05
May
4
04
2008
02:28 AM
2
02
28
AM
PDT
Was surprised given the subject of the article that the “house advantage” was not mentioned once. How much skill does it take to put a 0 and 00 on a roulette wheel.
If the player's advantage is 1% the house advantage is -1%. The house advantage was implicilty stated in my essay. Skilled gamblers, like those who were part of the MIT team did not play games that had conditional independence (like roulette), but games where the probability of an outcome was influenced by the observation of past events. Their minds were sufficiently keen to be able to recognize when table games offered an avantage. For example, a skilled gambler can look at a table and watch the cards being dealt. In certain games if a high proportion of fours, fives, and sixes are have been dealt in relation to tens and aces, the player can have an edge of as much as 5% over the house. The house edge in that case is -5%. What the MIT team did was to station spotters at the tables. The spotters played $25 a hand. When the dealer had dealt out a disproportionate number of low value to mid value cards (2,3,4,5,6,7), the conditional probability density was highly favorable. The spotter would signal the big player who would then wander over the table, pretend he was drunk, and lay down a $5,000, $10,000....$80,000 bet. I think the record for the MIT team was when Semyon Dukach laid down an $80,000 bet. With a 5% advantage, the expected value for an $80,000 bet is: $80,000 * .05 = $4,000 The problem is with an $80,000 bet you generally win or lose, you never get the expected value. The expected value is realized over many trials through averaging.... Risk managment entails picking the right percentage of the total reserves in cash and wagering a fraction of the reserves on each bet or portfolio position... Wager too much and gambler's ruin results. Wager too little, and too little money is made. The appropriate proportion was determined by MIT professor John Kelly. Thorp was the first gambler to: 1. figure out how to achieve an advantage by avoiding games with conditional independence and choosing games with conditional dependence 2. use Kelly risk managment techniques Thorpe realized some roulette wheels had design flaws which favored certain numbers. He and Claude Shannon built a hidden wearable computer that they brought to the casino to analyze and exploit roulette wheel flaws....scordova
May 4, 2008
May
05
May
4
04
2008
12:20 AM
12
12
20
AM
PDT
The contrast between a skilled gambler and natural selection is that a skilled player can wager small fractions of the money he sets aside for his trade. If a skilled gambler has $50,000, he might wager $100 at a time until the law of large numbers causes his statistical advantage to be asserted. He can attempt many many trials until his advantage eventually prevails. In this manner a skilled gambler can protect himself against the mathematics of gamblers ruin. But natural selection is a blind watchmaker. It does not know how to perform risk management like a skilled player or the great math wizard, Edward Thorp. Was surprised given the subject of the article that the "house advantage" was not mentioned once. How much skill does it take to put a 0 and 00 on a roulette wheel. In natural selection would it not be the case that in the long run, mutations that confer any sort of advantage at all will predominate over mutations that confer no advantage. Certainly it is understandable how even mutations conferring a 1% advantage will be wiped out in huge numbers. But if you look at the mutations that have been preserved, the "house advantage" would seem to dictate that those conferring any sort of advantage should predominate drastically. Truly novel and beneficial mutations are rare. They don’t repeat themselves very often, and when they arise, they will likely be wiped out unless there is fairly intense selection pressure It seems that arguments against evolution often come down to the observed rate of mutation. So, does this mean there is some mutation rate that would have made the whole process viable? Is it possible that a huge amount of random genetic variation (a good bit of it pure garbage) was generated at the very start of the biological process on this planet, and it is that random genetic information that has been in the process of being sorted out ever since. A further constraint on selective advantage of a given trait is the problem of selection interference and dilution of selective advantage if numerous traits are involved. If one has a population of 1000 individuals and each has a unique, novel, selectively-advantaged trait that emerged via mutation, one can see this leads to an impasse –selection can’t possibly work in such a situation since all the individuals effectively cancel out each other’s selective advantage. So would this mean that if in a population of 1000 individuals each had a harmful dibilitating selectively-disadvantaged mutation, the disdavantages would be cancelled out and these mutations would be rendered neutral. If so, these traits would maintain the same ratio in relation to each other in the population, but the species would dwindle to extinction. As far as beneficial mutations rendered "neutral", if the entire population experiences a sharp peak, (IOW all traits are resulting in an increase in reproduction) then there are more chances for even "neutral" mutations to be preserved (right?)JunkyardTornado
May 3, 2008
May
05
May
3
03
2008
11:57 PM
11
11
57
PM
PDT
Thanks, Sal. Very interesting and well laid-out post. There is, of course, an ongoing effort to deny that these principles apply to Darwinian theory, or if they apply, then evolutionary theory can overcome them. Nevertheless, the mathematical problems of the Darwinian paradigm bear repeating, and the more pressure that can be brought to bear the better. After all, if Darwinism is sound, it should be able to withstand, nay, it should even be supported by mathematical scrutiny; if not, it deserves to fall.Eric Anderson
May 3, 2008
May
05
May
3
03
2008
10:39 PM
10
10
39
PM
PDT
Further notes: 3. HT: Atom and others for insisting I re-visit bio-physicist Lee Spetner's writings. Spetner's writings strongly influenced the above essay. Spetner wrote the book Not by Chance just around the time he retired from Johns Hopkins. Nobel Laureate Christian Anfinsen gave a strong endorsement to Spetner's book. Anfinsen retired from Johns Hopkins around the time of giving the endorsement. Incidentally, Paul McHugh, after criticizing Darwin, shortly thereafter retired from Johns Hopkins. I guess they picked ideal moments to express dissent. :-) Not by Chance is one of 2 ID-sympathetic books endorsed by Nobel Laureates. [the other endorsement being Nobel Laureate Richard Smalley's endorsement of Origin of Life by Fuz Rana and Hugh Ross. Even though Ross publicly criticizes ID, he must surely believe an intelligence made life.] 4. Claude Shannon and Edward Thorp were the first reported team of scientists to try to defeat roulette by using a hidden computer to estimate trajectories and architectural flaws in roulette tables. They were aguably the first real MIT "team". 5. The real “Ben Campbell” of the movie “21? was Jeffrey Ma who made a cameo in the movie as a dealer. There were actually 2 MIT teams: the Amphibians and the Reptiles. The Reptiles presumably evolved from the Amphibians, and at MIT the Reptiles were the offshoot of the Amphibians. The Reptiles were the subject of the book that inspired the movie... Edward Thorpe was not “Mickey” in the movie because real MIT teams existed from the 90’s to the early 2000’s, long after Thrope was already filthy rich in Wall Street..."Mickey" had to be someone other than Thorp. 6. Interestinly Thorp played briefly in Nevada. He was bankrolled and accompanied by an ex-mobster by the name Manny Kimmel. An MIT academic with an ex-mobster? Truth is sometime starnger than fiction. Thorp dropped out of the casinos after he was poisoned with a tranquilizer. He feared for his life, left the casinos and became a true gambler on wallstreet.scordova
May 3, 2008
May
05
May
3
03
2008
09:50 PM
9
09
50
PM
PDT
1 4 5 6

Leave a Reply