Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

A “simple” summing up of the basic case for scientifically inferring design (in light of the logic of scientific induction per best explanation of the unobserved past)

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In answering yet another round of G’s talking points on design theory and those of us who advocate it, I have outlined a summary of design thinking and its links onward to debates on theology,  that I think is worth being  somewhat adapted, expanded and headlined.

With your indulgence:

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>> The epistemological warrant for origins science is no mystery, as Meyer and others have summarised. {Let me clip from an earlier post  in the same thread:

Let me give you an example of a genuine test (reported in Wiki’s article on the Infinite Monkeys theorem), on very easy terms, random document generation, as I have cited many times:

One computer program run by Dan Oliver of Scottsdale, Arizona, according to an article in The New Yorker, came up with a result on August 4, 2004: After the group had worked for 42,162,500,000 billion billion monkey-years, one of the “monkeys” typed, “VALENTINE. Cease toIdor:eFLP0FRjWK78aXzVOwm)-‘;8.t” The first 19 letters of this sequence can be found in “The Two Gentlemen of Verona”. Other teams have reproduced 18 characters from “Timon of Athens”, 17 from “Troilus and Cressida”, and 16 from “Richard II”.[24]

A website entitled The Monkey Shakespeare Simulator, launched on July 1, 2003, contained a Java applet that simulates a large population of monkeys typing randomly, with the stated intention of seeing how long it takes the virtual monkeys to produce a complete Shakespearean play from beginning to end. For example, it produced this partial line from Henry IV, Part 2, reporting that it took “2,737,850 million billion billion billion monkey-years” to reach 24 matching characters:

RUMOUR. Open your ears; 9r”5j5&?OWTY Z0d…

Of course this is chance generating the highly contingent outcome.

What about chance plus necessity, e.g. mutations and differential reproductive success of variants in environments? The answer is, that the non-foresighted — thus chance — variation is the source of high contingency. Differential reproductive success actually SUBTRACTS “inferior” varieties, it does not add. The source of variation is various chance processes, chance being understood in terms of processes creating variations uncorrelated with the functional outcomes of interest: i.e. non-foresighted.

If you have a case, make it . . . .

In making that case I suggest you start with OOL, and bear in mind Meyer’s remark on that subject in reply to hostile reviews:

The central argument of my book is that intelligent design—the activity of a conscious and rational deliberative agent—best explains the origin of the information necessary to produce the first living cell. I argue this because of two things that we know from our uniform and repeated experience, which following Charles Darwin I take to be the basis of all scientific reasoning about the past. First, intelligent agents have demonstrated the capacity to produce large amounts of functionally specified information (especially in a digital form).

Notice the terminology he naturally uses and how close it is to the terms I and others have commonly used, functionally specific complex information. So much for that rhetorical gambit.

He continues:

Second, no undirected chemical process has demonstrated this power.

Got that?

Hence, intelligent design provides the best—most causally adequate—explanation for the origin of the information necessary to produce the first life from simpler non-living chemicals. In other words, intelligent design is the only explanation that cites a cause known to have the capacity to produce the key effect in question . . . . In order to [[scientifically refute this inductive conclusion] Falk would need to show that some undirected material cause has [[empirically] demonstrated the power to produce functional biological information apart from the guidance or activity a designing mind. Neither Falk, nor anyone working in origin-of-life biology, has succeeded in doing this . . .}

In effect, on identifying traces from the remote past, and on examining and observing candidate causes in the present and their effects, one may identify characteristic signs of certain acting causes. These, on observation, can be shown to be reliable indicators or signs of particular causes in some cases.

From this, by inductive reasoning on inference to best explanation, we may apply the Newtonian uniformity principle of like causing like.

It so turns out that FSCO/I is such a sign, reliably produced by design, and design is the only empirically grounded adequate cause known to produce such. Things like codes [as systems of communication], complex organised mechanisms, complex algorithms expressed in codes, linguistic expressions beyond a reasonable threshold of complexity, algorithm implementing arrangements of components in an information processing entity, and the like are cases in point.

It turns out that the world of the living cell is replete with such, and so we are inductively warranted in inferring design as best causal explanation. Not, on a priori imposition of teleology, or on begging metaphysical questions, or the like; but, on induction in light of tested, reliable signs of causal forces at work.

And in that context the Chi_500 expression,

Chi_500 = Ip*S – 500, bits beyond the solar system threshold

. . . is a metric that starts with our ability to measure explicit or information content, directly [an on/off switch such as for the light in a room has two possible states and stores one bit, two store two bits . . . ] or by considering the relevant analysis of observed patterns of configurations. It then uses our ability to observe functional specificity (does any and any configuration suffice, or do we need well-matched, properly arranged parts with limited room for variation and alternative arrangement before function breaks] to move beyond info carrying capacity to functionally specific info.

This is actually commonly observed in a world of info technology.

I have tried the experiment of opening up the background file for an empty basic Word document then noticing the many seemingly meaningless repetitive elements. So, I pick one effectively at random, and clip it out, saving the result. Then, I try opening the file from Word again. It reliably breaks. Seeming “junk digits” are plainly functionally required and specific.

But, as we saw from the infinite monkeys discussion, it is possible to hit on functionally specific patterns if they are short enough, by chance. Though, discovering when one has done so can be quite hard. The sum of the random document exercises is that spaces of about 10^50 are searchable within available resources. At 25 ASCII characters, at 7 bits per character, that is about 175 bits.

The proverbial needle in the haystack
The proverbial needle in the haystack

Taking in the fact that for each additional bit used in a system, the config space DOUBLES, the difference between 175 or so bits, and the solar system threshold adopted based on exhausting the capacity of the solar system’s 10^57 atoms and 10^17 s or so, is highly significant. At the {500-bit} threshold, we are in effect only able to take a sample in the ratio of one straw’s size to a cubical haystack as thick as our galaxy, 1,000 light years. As CR’s screen image case shows, and as imagining such a haystack superposed on our galactic neighbourhood would show, by sampling theory, we could only reasonably expect such a sample to be typical of the overwhelming bulk of the space, straw.

In short, we have a very reasonable practical threshold for cases where examples of functionally specific information and/or organisation are sufficiently complex that we can be comfortable that such cannot plausibly be accounted for on blind — undirected — chance and mechanical necessity.

{This allows us to apply the following flowchart of logical steps in a case . . . ladder of conditionals . . .  structure, the per aspect design inference, and on a QUANTITATIVE approach grounded in a reasonable threshold metric model:

The per aspect explanatory filter that shows how design may be inferred on empirically tested, reliable sign
The per aspect explanatory filter that shows how design may be inferred on empirically tested, reliable sign

On the strength of that, we have every epistemic right to infer that cell based life shows signs pointing to design. {For instance, consider how ribosomes are used to create new proteins in the cell:

The step-by-step process of protein synthesis, controlled by the digital (= discrete state) information stored in DNA
The step-by-step process of protein synthesis, controlled by the digital (= discrete state) information stored in DNA

And, in so doing, let us zoom in on the way that the Ribosome uses a control tape, mRNA, to step by step assemble a new amino acid chain, to make a protein:

Step by step protein synthesis in action, in the ribosome, based on the sequence of codes in the mRNA control tape (Courtesy, Wikipedia and LadyofHats)
Step by step protein synthesis in action, in the ribosome, based on the sequence of codes in the mRNA control tape (Courtesy, Wikipedia and LadyofHats)

This can be seen as an animation, courtesy Vuk Nikolic:

[vimeo 31830891]

Let us note the comparable utility of punched paper tape used in computers and numerically controlled industrial machines in a past generation:

Punched paper Tape, as used in older computers and numerically controlled machine tools (Courtesy Wiki & Siemens)
Punched paper Tape, as used in older computers and numerically controlled machine tools (Courtesy Wiki & Siemens)

Given some onward objections, May 4th I add an info graphic on DNA . . .

Fig I.0: DNA as a stored code exhibiting functionally specific complex digital information (HT: NIH)
Fig I.0: DNA as a stored code exhibiting functionally specific complex digital information (HT: NIH)

And a similar one on the implied communication system’s general, irreducibly complex architecture:

A communication system
A communication system. Notice the required arrangement of a set of well-matched, corresponding components that are each necessary and jointly sufficient to achieve function, e.g. coder and decoder, transmitter and receiver, Transmitter, channel and receiver, etc.

In turn,  that brings up the following clip from the ID Foundation series article on Irreducible Complexity, on Menuge’s criteria C1 – 5 for getting to such a system (which he presented in the context of the Flagellum):

But also, IC is a barrier to the usual suggested counter-argument, co-option or exaptation based on a conveniently available cluster of existing or duplicated parts. For instance, Angus Menuge has noted that:

For a working [bacterial] flagellum to be built by exaptation, the five following conditions would all have to be met:

C1: Availability. Among the parts available for recruitment to form the flagellum, there would need to be ones capable of performing the highly specialized tasks of paddle, rotor, and motor, even though all of these items serve some other function or no function.

C2: Synchronization. The availability of these parts would have to be synchronized so that at some point, either individually or in combination, they are all available at the same time.

C3: Localization. The selected parts must all be made available at the same ‘construction site,’ perhaps not simultaneously but certainly at the time they are needed.

C4: Coordination. The parts must be coordinated in just the right way: even if all of the parts of a flagellum are available at the right time, it is clear that the majority of ways of assembling them will be non-functional or irrelevant.

C5: Interface compatibility. The parts must be mutually compatible, that is, ‘well-matched’ and capable of properly ‘interacting’: even if a paddle, rotor, and motor are put together in the right order, they also need to interface correctly.

( Agents Under Fire: Materialism and the Rationality of Science, pgs. 104-105 (Rowman & Littlefield, 2004). HT: ENV.)

In short, the co-ordinated and functional organisation of a complex system  is itself a factor that needs credible explanation.

However, as Luskin notes for the iconic flagellum, “Those who purport to explain flagellar evolution almost always only address C1 and ignore C2-C5.” [ENV.]

And yet, unless all five factors are properly addressed, the matter has plainly not been adequately explained. Worse, the classic attempted rebuttal, the Type Three Secretory System [T3SS] is not only based on a subset of the genes for the flagellum [as part of the self-assembly the flagellum must push components out of the cell], but functionally, it works to help certain bacteria prey on eukaryote organisms. Thus, if anything the T3SS is not only a component part that has to be integrated under C1 – 5, but it is credibly derivative of the flagellum and an adaptation that is subsequent to the origin of Eukaryotes. Also, it is just one of several components, and is arguably itself an IC system. (Cf Dembski here.)

Going beyond all of this, in the well known Dover 2005 trial, and citing ENV, ID lab researcher Scott Minnich has testified to a direct confirmation of the IC status of the flagellum:

Scott Minnich has properly tested for irreducible complexity through genetic knock-out experiments he performed in his own laboratory at the University of Idaho. He presented this evidence during the Dover trial, which showed that the bacterial flagellum is irreducibly complex with respect to its complement of thirty-five genes. As Minnich testified: “One mutation, one part knock out, it can’t swim. Put that single gene back in we restore motility. Same thing over here. We put, knock out one part, put a good copy of the gene back in, and they can swim. By definition the system is irreducibly complex. We’ve done that with all 35 components of the flagellum, and we get the same effect. [Dover Trial, Day 20 PM Testimony, pp. 107-108. Unfortunately, Judge Jones simply ignored this fact reported by the researcher who did the work, in the open court room.]

That is, using “knockout” techniques, the 35 relevant flagellar proteins in a target bacterium were knocked out then restored one by one.

The pattern for each DNA-sequence: OUT — no function, BACK IN — function restored.

Thus, the flagellum is credibly empirically confirmed as irreducibly complex. [Cf onward discussion on Knockout Studies, here.]

The kinematic von Neumann self-replicating machine [vNSR] concept is then readily applicable to the living cell:

jvn_self_replicator
The kinematic vNSR shows how stored coded information on a tape can be used to control a self-replicating automaton, relevant to both paper tape and the living cell

Mignea’s model of minimal requisites for a self-replicating cell [speech here], are then highly relevant as well:

self_replication_mignea
Mignea’s schematic of the requisites of kinematic self-replication, showing duplication and arrangement then separation into daughter automata. This requires stored algorithmic procedures, descriptions sufficient to construct components, means to execute instructions, materials handling, controlled energy flows, wastes disposal and more. (Source: Mignea, 2012, slide show as linked; fair use.)

HT CR, here’s a typical representation of cell replication through Mitosis:

[youtube C6hn3sA0ip0]

And, we may then ponder Michael Denton’s reflection on the automated world of the cell, in his foundational book, Evolution, a Theory in Crisis (1986):

To grasp the reality of life as it has been revealed by molecular biology, we must magnify a cell a thousand million times until it is twenty kilometers in diameter [[so each atom in it would be “the size of a tennis ball”] and resembles a giant airship large enough to cover a great city like London or New York. What we would then see would be an object of unparalleled complexity and adaptive design. On the surface of the cell we would see millions of openings, like the port holes of a vast space ship, opening and closing to allow a continual stream of materials to flow in and out. If we were to enter one of these openings we would find ourselves in a world of supreme technology and bewildering complexity. We would see endless highly organized corridors and conduits branching in every direction away from the perimeter of the cell, some leading to the central memory bank in the nucleus and others to assembly plants and processing units. The nucleus itself would be a vast spherical chamber more than a kilometer in diameter, resembling a geodesic dome inside of which we would see, all neatly stacked together in ordered arrays, the miles of coiled chains of the DNA molecules. A huge range of products and raw materials would shuttle along all the manifold conduits in a highly ordered fashion to and from all the various assembly plants in the outer regions of the cell.
We would wonder at the level of control implicit in the movement of so many objects down so many seemingly endless conduits, all in perfect unison. We would see all around us, in every direction we looked, all sorts of robot-like machines . . . . We would see that nearly every feature of our own advanced machines had its analogue in the cell: artificial languages and their decoding systems, memory banks for information storage and retrieval, elegant control systems regulating the automated assembly of components, error fail-safe and proof-reading devices used for quality control, assembly processes involving the principle of prefabrication and modular construction . . . . However, it would be a factory which would have one capacity not equaled in any of our own most advanced machines, for it would be capable of replicating its entire structure within a matter of a few hours . . . .
Unlike our own pseudo-automated assembly plants, where external controls are being continually applied, the cell’s manufacturing capability is entirely self-regulated . . . .[[Denton, Michael, Evolution: A Theory in Crisis, Adler, 1986, pp. 327 – 331. This work is a classic that is still well worth reading. Emphases added. (NB: The 2009 work by Stephen Meyer of Discovery Institute, Signature in the Cell, brings this classic argument up to date. The main thesis of the book is that: “The universe is comprised of matter, energy, and the information that gives order [[better: functional organisation]  to matter and energy, thereby bringing life into being. In the cell, information is carried by DNA, which functions like a software program. The signature in the cell is that of the master programmer of life.” Given the sharp response that has provoked, the onward e-book responses to attempted rebuttals, Signature of Controversy, would also be excellent, but sobering and sometimes saddening, reading.) ]}

An extension of this, gives us reason to infer that body plans similarly show signs of design. And, related arguments give us reason to infer that a cosmos fine tuned in many ways that converge on enabling such C-chemistry, aqueous medium cell based life on habitable terrestrial planets or similarly hospitable environments, also shows signs of design.

Not on a prioi impositions, but on induction from evidence we observe and reliable signs that we establish inductively. That is, scientifically.

Added, May 11: Remember, this focus on the cell is in the end because it is the root of the Darwinist three of life and as such origin of life is pivotal:

The Smithsonian's tree of life model, note the root in OOL
The Smithsonian’s tree of life model, note the root in OOL

Multiply that by the evidence that there is a definite, finitely remote beginning to the observed cosmos, some 13.7 BYA being a common estimate, and 10 – 20 BYA a widely supported ballpark. That says, it is contingent, has underlying enabling causal factors, and so is a contingent, caused being.

All of this to this point is scientific, with background logic and epistemology.

Not theology, revealed or natural.

It owes nothing to the teachings of any religious movement or institution.

However, it does provide surprising corroboration to the statements of two apostles who went out on a limb philosophically by committing the Christian faith in foundational documents to reason/communication being foundational to observed reality, our world. In short the NT concepts of the Logos [John 1, cf Col 1, Heb 1, Ac 17] and that the evident, discernible reality of God as intelligent creator from signs in the observed cosmos [Rom 1 cf Heb 11:1 – 6, Ac 17 and Eph 4:17 – 24], are supported by key findings of science over the past 100 or so years.

There are debates over timelines and interpretations of Genesis, as well there would be.

They do not matter, in the end, given the grounds advanced on the different sides of the debate. We can live with Gen 1 – 11 being a sweeping, often poetic survey meant only to establish that the world is not a chaos, and it is not a product of struggling with primordial chaos or wars of the gods or the like. The differences between the Masoretic genealogies and those in the ancient translation, the Septuagint, make me think we need to take pause on attempts to precisely date creation on such evidence. Schaeffer probably had something right in his suggestion that one would be better advised to see this as describing the flow and outline of Biblical history rather than a precise, sequential chronology. And that comes up once we can see how consistently reliable the OT is as reflecting its times and places, patterns and events, even down to getting names right.

Strawman
A Strawman

So, debating Genesis is to follow a red herring and go off to pummel a strawman smeared with stereotypes and set up for rhetorical conflagration. A fallacy of distraction, polarisation and personalisation. As is too often found as a habitual pattern of objectors to design theory.

What is substantial is the evidence on origins of our world and of the world of cell based life in the light of its challenge to us in our comfortable scientism.

And, in that regard, we have again — this is the umpteenth time, G; and you have long since worn out patience and turning the other cheek in the face of personalities, once it became evident that denigration was a main rhetorical device at work — had good reason to see that design theory is a legitimate scientific endeavour, regardless of rhetorical games being played to make it appear otherwise.>>

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In short, it is possible to address the design inference and wider design theory without resort to ideologically loaded debates. And, as a first priority, we should. END

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PS: In support of my follow up to EA at 153 below, at 157, it is worth adding (May 8th) the Trevors-Abel diagram from 2005 (SOURCE), contrasting the patterns of OSC, RSC and FSC:

osc_rsc_fsc

Figure 4: Superimposition of Functional Sequence Complexity onto Figure 2. The Y1 axis plane plots the decreasing degree of algorithmic compressibility as complexity increases from order towards randomness. The Y2 (Z) axis plane shows where along the same complexity gradient (X-axis) that highly instructional sequences are generally found. The Functional Sequence Complexity (FSC) curve includes all algorithmic sequences that work at all (W). The peak of this curve (w*) represents “what works best.” The FSC curve is usually quite narrow and is located closer to the random end than to the ordered end of the complexity scale. Compression of an instructive sequence slides the FSC curve towards the right (away from order, towards maximum complexity, maximum Shannon uncertainty, and seeming randomness) with no loss of function.

 

Comments
billmaz, let me give you my personal take on some other things you mentioned.
"...all of us want to be part of a Grand Scheme in which we actually are immortal and are part of a larger, grander picture. We all, and I include the atheists, even if they can’t admit it, crave God to exist. But He sure is making it difficult."
First one might take the forward path to general theism. There are many arguments in favor of it, and those against it are rather weak, imo. If one can accept the design inference, especially with regard to cosmological ID, then taking the next step to theism -- believing in an eternal, omnipotent God -- is straightforward. Once a person accepts theism, it's necessary to examine the competing claims of various religions, determining which if any has the most evidence in its favor. As a Christian, I would suggest a different route. Jesus said,
"I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me." - John 14:6
This is a strong claim that nobody can know or approach God without Jesus Christ. He also said,
"I and the Father are one." - John 10:30
Here Jesus claims equality with God. The apostle Paul expands on this claim:
"The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant." -- Colossians 1:15-23
Moreover, nobody can accept the Son unless the Father allows it:
"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day." -- John 6:44
It takes an act of your will, and thereby an act of faith to open the door.
"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened." Matthew 7:7-8
I would highly recommend a sincere and humble prayer asking God to reveal the truth of Jesus Christ to you. Make sure you invoke that name, since He is the focus of this specific search for truth. I believe God will answer this prayer if it's made in earnest. Here is the gospel message. You are a sinner separated from God by your sin -- lies, theft, dishonoring parents and God, sexual immorality, and so on -- but God is not only perfectly just, he is perfectly loving. So he sent his Son, Jesus Christ, to die on a Roman cross in your place, suffering the death that you and we all deserve, paying the penalty for your sin Himself. Three days later he was raised from the dead, claiming victory over death and fulfilling the prophecies that were written of Him. If you believe this, you will be saved, and enter a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, the Son of God. For many of us believers this process began with the sincere prayer that I mentioned above. This act of your will asks God to reveal the truth about his Son. Also, it's a good idea to read the words yourself. Start reading the Gospel of John, which comes after Matthew, Mark, and Luke. Consider carefully the claims of Jesus, and be willing to ask yourself honestly, "What if his claims are true?" Also pray. If you ask God to show you the truth contained in the gospel, I believe you'll be answered.Chance Ratcliff
May 2, 2013
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If I were to design a human I’d do a much better job of it, (at least in its general design, not in the molecular mechanisms involved, obviously) and so would you.
Nonsense. No-one, and I mean no-one, has ever proposed an engineering level assessment of how this or that biological system could be improved. At most, we get vague hand-waving proposals for how something could be more "perfect." But as soon as we start asking for details about what would actually be involved in re-engineering a particular system, we are treated to silence or vague generalities. Further, we are regularly finding out that systems previously alleged to be suboptimal in fact incorporate exquisite and creative design principles. The 'bad design' or 'suboptimal design' line of complaint against intelligent design has an extremely poor track record. To be sure, there are implications flowing from the design inference. But it is simply false to say that ID needs to "have a grander vision" of the creator and all the "why's". If you are interested in going there, great. But it is not an obligation of ID proper to go there. ID is not failing because it refuses to wade into all the metaphysical implications of design detection. Indeed, I regard as one of ID's primary strengths the fact that it refuses to engage in subjective and questionable speculations about the identity or intent or motives of the designer.Eric Anderson
May 2, 2013
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billmaz,
"It is disingenuous for ID to say that it doesn’t concern itself with who or what the designer is."
It's not disingenuous at all. It follows directly from ID methodology, which deals with properties of the effects of intelligence, not the identity of the designing intelligence. One might say that ID should extend to a broader territory, but that's a subjective opinion. The objective fact is that ID is about detecting design, and doesn't concern itself with identifying the designer. Such a pursuit requires certain philosophical and theological methodologies, which are not employed in design detection.
"It can only be God..."
That is an implication of the presence of design in the universe and living systems which follows from the inference to design. It is never considered in the approach to design detection. This distinction isn't just convenient, it follows logically. Ignoring this distinction is a fallacy which has been referred to as, confusing a theory with its implications.
"Yes, yes, I know, ID doesn’t deal with these questions. It just deals with design detection. But you can’t just leave it there."
Again, this is subjective. One may opt to follow up on design detection by asking questions which follow from the conclusion of intelligent causation, but this is in no way part of the design detection methodology. This type of sentiment is not entirely uncommon at UD. Some people believe that Intelligent Design Theory should really be more than it is, or something different entirely. That doesn't actually challenge the premise that IDT is about detecting design, and not about larger philosophical or theological questions which can logically follow as a result. Many of your other comments require theological responses.Chance Ratcliff
May 2, 2013
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Thank you for your responses. I agree that the ultimate questions of who created the quantum mechanics rules and the general rules of math and physics lead us to either a conscious intelligence or (less likely for me) an "it's always been there" hypothesis. I reject pure materialism. Some of the many quotes I have in my blog billmaz.com represent my thought: British astrophysicist Sir Arthur Eddington (5) said that “physics is the study of the structure of consciousness. The ‘stuff’ of the world is mindstuff.” In the same article Max Planck, the “father” of quantum physics, is quoted as having stated, “As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clear-headed science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as the result of my research about the atoms, this much: There is no matter as such! All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particles of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together … We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter.” And again, Rosenblum quotes Pascual Jordan, a physicist who was involved in founding quantum theory: “Observations not only disturb what is to be measured, they produce it. We compel [the particle] to assume a definite position.” So, in answer to Eric Anderson, quantum mechanics shows that consciousness creates reality. It is not just chance. The probability wave is there, but who or what makes the choice we actually observe? QM hasn’t answered that question yet. The question of ID for me is whether God or Consciousness simply created the laws of physics and the forces of natural selection (the fittest do survive better!) and then stopped there, letting the forces do their work, or whether there is an Intelligence at work on a constant basis guiding the development of life and the universe as a whole. Quantum physics says that consciousness needs to be there in order for anything to exist in a definite form. It says nothing (yet) of how the choice is made by either our consciousness or the Ultimate Consciousness regarding which reality we live in. It is disingenuous for ID to say that it doesn’t concern itself with who or what the designer is. It can only be God (I can’t believe that aliens have a role here since they have to be designed too). I don't happen to believe in a personal God, though I pray all the time, just in case, and am repeatedly reminded of its futility. In the same vein, I don't see a God intervening in the fates of man or the planet. But things may be subtle, I grant you that, so I can never say God is not present. If He is present, though, the evidence of eons of extinct species, close similarities between extinct and present species, (morphologically, genetically, etc.) sure makes us believe that He just let the forces roll without intervention. The arguments that I hear from ID that these similarities are just God's way of using the same constructs over and over again for new species sound blatantly hollow. You can't seriously believe that as a rational human being, never mind a scientist. So what is the answer? All of this evidence has to be explained by ID. I am a doctor and a novelist. In my yet unpublished novel (soon to be), The Daedalus Project, http://billmaz.com/,I started with the question "What if Intelligent Design were true?" Then I used the scientific thriller genre to bring to light what the ramifications, and the possible science behind this hypothesis, would mean. I'm not telling you this to advertise my novel (a white lie), just to let you know that I have put a great deal of thought into this question and believe there is more to evolution than what we think we understand. But the questions arising from accepting ID are profound and vast. Why would God set up a system of "guided evolution" in the first place? Why not just create whatever species He wanted? What is the purpose of allowing untold species to become extinct? Why set up a system based on one organism feeding on the body of another? A system of disease and predation? A system of competition where it is clear that the fittest do survive better. A system of constant death and rebirth. Yes, yes, I know, ID doesn't deal with these questions. It just deals with design detection. But you can't just leave it there. If you invoke an intelligence, you have to at least propose some valid hypothesis of what and who this intelligence is, or, at the very least, of how such an advanced intelligence can be involved in creating such UNintelligent organisms (in terms of their structure and function). If I were to design a human I'd do a much better job of it, (at least in its general design, not in the molecular mechanisms involved, obviously) and so would you. Why put the respiratory orifice (the trachea) next to the digestive orifice (the esophagus) for example, and cause untold chocking every year? Why make the heart a linear system (and thus subject to breakdown) rather than a parallel one? Why have an inadequate immune system, or one that turns on its owner (autoimmune disease). Why have cancer and all the other diseases of an inadequate genome? Why have disease at all? And so on. There are hundreds, thousands of these examples. If ID wants to be taken seriously, it has to do more than just detect intelligence. It has to have a grander vision. And I am still waiting for it. Because, you know, all of us want to be part of a Grand Scheme in which we actually are immortal and are part of a larger, grander picture. We all, and I include the atheists, even if they can’t admit it, crave God to exist. But He sure is making it difficult.billmaz
May 2, 2013
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Billmaz: Andre, Chance and kf have given some good answers. I would just highlight that even with your quantum idea you still run up against the question of whether the design came about by necessity by chance or by intelligence. Whatever quantum "cause" is discovered at some future date must fall into one of those categories. So if there is an identified cause that is either one of necessity (life is driven toward a particular goal) or chance (more randomness at the quantum level), then we would not have any need to invoke design. I should add that the idea of necessity fails, I believe, right out of the gate. We have discussed before some reasons why (necessity is anathema to information generation and storage; there are lots of exceptions and quirks in biology; etc.). So at the end of the day, whatever "quantum cause" someone thinks they have found will likely just boil down to another level of chance at the quantum level. And we've already seen that chance doesn't have a prayer of producing biological novelty within the resources and timeframe of the known universe. Ultimately, it is not at all clear to me what naturalistic quantum ideas can bring to the table regarding origins.* In most cases, it is just another last-ditch example of the evolutionary promissory note which says: "Just wait. Eventually we'll find some evidence that shows how all this came about through purely natural causes." ----- * Note: Principles of quantum mechanics can definitely be used in designing molecular machines. We are starting to see evidence (as ba77 reminds us nearly every day) of quantum principles being used in certain areas of biology. But utilizing quantum mechanics in one's design is very different from saying the quantum principles themselves caused the design. Brings us back to the point of necessary vs. sufficient conditions.Eric Anderson
May 2, 2013
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Gregory: Waaait just a minute. You say:
The IDM (meaning DI leaders) has attempted to appropriate ‘design theory’ for itself.
Yet on the other thread just recently you argued that Dembski makes a clear distinction between 'intelligent design' and 'design.' So are you saying the DI leaders (whoever they are) are not following Dembski's lead? And in what way do you think DI leaders have tried to appropriate design theory? Is it because they observe that design detection can operate across multiple fields? They certainly aren't claiming that everyone must look to intelligent design theory for an understanding of engineering and design principles. Indeed, it is quite the other way around, observation of engineering and design principles can help strengthen the inference to design. So in what way are they appropriating design theory?Eric Anderson
May 2, 2013
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CR: Vid added, just scroll up. Thanks. KFkairosfocus
May 2, 2013
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Billmaz: Could you let us know how you composed the above post as a series of statements in more or less grammatically correct and meaningful English, and submitted it? You used 1,098 characters in 189 words. That many ASCII characters comes from a configuration space of 5.64 * 10^2,294 possibilities. The atomic and temporal resources of our observed cosmos, without intelligent direction [i.e. acting by blind chance and mechanical necessity], could not begin to sample enough of the space to plausibly hit on a remotely similar message to the above. And yet you, an intelligent designer tossed it off in doubtless a few minutes. That difference in capacity which we routinely experience, observe and practice, brings up the first part of your answer. Namely, we know and understand design from the inside, it is an undeniable reality. So, we first study it empirically and by recognising commonplace, characteristic features. Without any need whatsoever to enter into metaphysical assumptions and assertions. Beyond, the undeniable, rooted in plain old fashioned common sense: we live in a cosmos where intelligent designers are possible, are actual, and exhibit characteristic patterns of behaviour that we may reasonably cluster under labels such as intelligence and design. And, what do we summarise? Things like these, from UD's glossary, which at any time you could have found on the UD resources tab top of this and every UD page or post:
INTELLIGENCE: >>Intelligence – Wikipedia aptly and succinctly defines: “capacities to reason, to plan, to solve problems, to think abstractly, to comprehend ideas, to use language, and to learn.”>> CHANCE, CONTINGENCY, NECESSITY & DESIGN: >> Chance – undirected contingency. That is, events that come from a cluster of possible outcomes, but for which there is no decisive evidence that they are directed; especially where sampled or observed outcomes follow mathematical distributions tied to statistical models of randomness. (E.g. which side of a fair die is uppermost on tossing and tumbling then settling.) Contingency – here, possible outcomes that (by contrast with those of necessity) may vary significantly from case to case under reasonably similar initial conditions. (E.g. which side of a die is uppermost, whether it has been loaded or not, upon tossing, tumbling and settling.). Contingent [as opposed to necessary] beings begin to exist (and so are caused), need not exist in all possible worlds, and may/do go out of existence. Necessity — here, events that are triggered and controlled by mechanical forces that (together with initial conditions) reliably lead to given – sometimes simple (an unsupported heavy object falls) but also perhaps complicated — outcomes. (Newtonian dynamics is the classical model of such necessity.) In some cases, sensitive dependence on [or, “to”] initial conditions may leads to unpredictability of outcomes, due to cumulative amplification of the effects of noise or small, random/ accidental differences between initial and intervening conditions, or simply inevitable rounding errors in calculation. This is called “chaos.” Design — purposefully directed contingency. That is, the intelligent, creative manipulation of possible outcomes (and usually of objects, forces, materials, processes and trends) towards goals. (E.g. 1: writing a meaningful sentence or a functional computer program. E.g. 2: loading of a die to produce biased, often advantageous, outcomes. E.g. 3: the creation of a complex object such as a statue, or a stone arrow-head, or a computer, or a pocket knife.) >> INTELLIGENT DESIGN: >> Intelligent design [ID] – Dr William A Dembski, a leading design theorist, has defined ID as “the science that studies signs of intelligence.” That is, as we ourselves instantiate [thus exemplify as opposed to “exhaust”], intelligent designers act into the world, and create artifacts. When such agents act, there are certain characteristics that commonly appear, and that – per massive experience — reliably mark such artifacts. It it therefore a reasonable and useful scientific project to study such signs and identify how we may credibly reliably infer from empirical sign to the signified causal factor: purposefully directed contingency or intelligent design. Among the signs of intelligence of current interest for research are: [a] FSCI — function-specifying complex information [e.g. blog posts in English text that take in more than 143 ASCII characters, and/or -- as was highlighted by Yockey and Wickens by the mid-1980s -- as a distinguishing marker of the macromolecules in the heart of cell-based life forms], or more broadly [b] CSI — complex, independently specified information [e.g. Mt Rushmore vs New Hampshire's former Old Man of the mountain, or -- as was highlighted by Orgel in 1973 -- a distinguishing feature of the cell's information-rich organized aperiodic macromolecules that are neither simply orderly like crystals nor random like chance-polymerized peptide chains], or [c] IC – multi-part functionality that relies on an irreducible core of mutually co-adapted, interacting components. [e.g. the hardware parts of a PC or more simply of a mousetrap; or – as was highlighted by Behe in the mid 1990's -- the bacterial flagellum and many other cell-based bodily features and functions.], or [d] “Oracular” active information – in some cases, e.g. many Genetic Algorithms, successful performance of a system traces to built-in information or organisation that guides algorithmic search processes and/or performance so that the system significantly outperforms random search. Such guidance may include oracles that, step by step, inform a search process that the iterations are “warmer/ colder” relative to a performance target zone. (A classic example is the Weasel phrase search program.) Also, [e] Complex, algorithmically active, coded information – the complex information used in systems and processes is symbolically coded in ways that are not preset by underlying physical or chemical forces, but by encoding and decoding dynamically inert but algorithmically active information that guides step by step execution sequences, i.e. algorithms. (For instance, in hard disk drives, the stored information in bits is coded based a conventional, symbolic assignment of the N/S poles, forces and fields involved, and is impressed and used algorithmically. The physics of forces and fields does not determine or control the bit-pattern of the information – or, the drive would be useless. Similarly, in DNA, the polymer chaining chemistry is effectively unrelated to the information stored in the sequence and reading frames of the A/ G/ C/ T side-groups. It is the coded genetic information in the successive three-letter D/RNA codons that is used by the cell’s molecular nano- machines in the step by step creation of proteins. Such DNA sets from observed living organisms starts at 100,000 – 500,000 four-state elements [200 k – 1 M bits], abundantly meriting the description: function- specifying, complex information, or FSCI.)>>
That is, without getting into an endless hall of mirrors of iterative demands for precising exact descriptions, design and intelligence behind it can be empirically studied, characterised, modelled, measured in some cases or aspects and inferred on from known to unknown cases. Just in case you want to pull the demand for endorsement by a major ID thinker gambit, here is Dembski in NFL, as has long been clipped in the IOSE Intro-Summary page, towards the end of Section A:
. . . (1) A designer conceives a purpose. (2) To accomplish that purpose, the designer forms a plan. (3) To execute the plan, the designer specifies building materials and assembly instructions. (4) Finally, the designer or some surrogate applies the assembly instructions to the building materials. (No Free Lunch, p. xi. HT: ENV.)
Now if the cosmos were set up -- programmed -- to generate life and then to feed in information that is well beyond the reach of chance, non foresighted processes so that cell based life, ecosystems and intelligent, cell based organisms were driven from the ground up, that would be an astonishing demonstration of design. Starting from the setting up of the cosmos. You need to understand that a much more modest design inference on fine tuning that FACILITATES conditions that permit life, has met with very serious hostility. Precisely because it is not committed to a priori evolutionary materialism (or at least things not effectively distinct from it.) I need to remind you of Provine's words at the U Tenn Darwin Day events in 1998:
Naturalistic evolution has clear consequences that Charles Darwin understood perfectly. 1) No gods worth having exist; 2) no life after death exists; 3) no ultimate foundation for ethics exists; 4) no ultimate meaning in life exists; and 5) human free will is nonexistent . . . . The first 4 implications are so obvious to modern naturalistic evolutionists that I will spend little time defending them. Human free will, however, is another matter. Even evolutionists have trouble swallowing that implication. I will argue that humans are locally determined systems that make choices. They have, however, no free will . . . [Evolution: Free Will and Punishment and Meaning in Life, Second Annual Darwin Day Celebration Keynote Address, University of Tennessee, Knoxville, February 12, 1998 (abstract).]
Lewontin's words in his Jan 1997 NYRB review are even more blatant, and -- as he says, reflect a wide "consensus" of a dominant ideology:
. . . to put a correct view of the universe into people's heads we must first get an incorrect view out . . . the problem is to get them to reject irrational and supernatural explanations of the world, the demons that exist only in their imaginations, and to accept a social and intellectual apparatus, Science, as the only begetter of truth [[--> NB: this is a knowledge claim about knowledge and its possible sources, i.e. it is a claim in philosophy not science; it is thus self-refuting]. . . . To Sagan, as to all but a few other scientists, it is self-evident [[--> actually, science and its knowledge claims are plainly not immediately and necessarily true on pain of absurdity, to one who understands them; this is another logical error, begging the question , confused for real self-evidence; whereby a claim shows itself not just true but true on pain of patent absurdity if one tries to deny it . . ] that the practices of science provide the surest method of putting us in contact with physical reality, and that, in contrast, the demon-haunted world rests on a set of beliefs and behaviors that fail every reasonable test [[--> i.e. an assertion that tellingly reveals a hostile mindset, not a warranted claim] . . . . It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes [[--> another major begging of the question . . . ] to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute [[--> i.e. here we see the fallacious, indoctrinated, ideological, closed mind . . . ], for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door. [Cf clip here. If you think these words are quote-mined or unrepresentative, kindly read the fuller clip and comments as well as other remarks cited.]
That's what ideological commitment looks like. In short, this is a serious case of ideologically driven question begging that needs to be reformed. ID thinker Philip Johnson has aptly replied to Lewontin:
For scientific materialists the materialism comes first; the science comes thereafter. [[Emphasis original] We might more accurately term them "materialists employing science." And if materialism is true, then some materialistic theory of evolution has to be true simply as a matter of logical deduction, regardless of the evidence. That theory will necessarily be at least roughly like neo-Darwinism, in that it will have to involve some combination of random changes and law-like processes capable of producing complicated organisms that (in Dawkins’ words) "give the appearance of having been designed for a purpose." . . . . The debate about creation and evolution is not deadlocked . . . Biblical literalism is not the issue. The issue is whether materialism and rationality are the same thing. Darwinism is based on an a priori commitment to materialism, not on a philosophically neutral assessment of the evidence. Separate the philosophy from the science, and the proud tower collapses. [[Emphasis added.] [[The Unraveling of Scientific Materialism, First Things, 77 (Nov. 1997), pp. 22 – 25.]
KFkairosfocus
May 2, 2013
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Hi billmaz, here's my take on your comments.
"The problem I and many have with ID is that I have never heard anyone specify who or what a designer is."
Identifying the designer of anything succeeds design detection. ID theory is about design detection. Subsequent speculations, theological arguments, or philosophical proofs about the identity of the designer are not part of the ID methodology.
"If tomorrow it is found that quantum physics or chaos theory or whatever can explain evolution that is not random but is inherently traveling toward creating intelligent life, would that satisfy ID?"
ID is compatible with any scientific theory, theological view, or philosophical position that does not in principle deny that intelligent design can be objectively detected by noting certain features of the object in question. If it were discovered that a necessity mechanism existed which could produce observed biological nanotechnology without direct reference to an intelligent cause it would falsify the biological design inference.
"For those believing in evolution, if tomorrow it is found that quantum physics has proven that consciousness (or ultimate Consciousness) guides evolution to a specific goal of intelligent life I think they would accept it and modify evolution to encompass the new findings."
If consciousness was shown to be directly implicated in the creation and subsequent diversification of life, it would validate ID and falsify any unguided, undirected hypotheses, such as Darwinian evolution.
"Many scientists (mostly physicists) have come to the conclusion that consciousness is at the base of the universe (and evolution) but they are not ready to call it God. Consciousness as a primal force can explain everything without thinking of it as a Biblical God but as a force of the universe. Would ID be OK with that?"
Since ID methodology makes no pretense about identifying the designer, it would be compatible with any design hypothesis that invokes a designing intelligence, regardless of whether or not the intelligence is the Biblical God. There might be philosophical problems with attributing intelligence to a "force" however. ID wouldn't have anything to say about that in reference to its methodology.Chance Ratcliff
May 2, 2013
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Apologies for the bad spelling, have a new tablet with new auto correcting....Andre
May 2, 2013
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Billmaz If consciousness is at the heart of the universe then ID is right, because consciousness goes hand in hand with an intelligent mind. ID does not know or care who the designer is, that is a philosophical question to ponder on not a scientific one. Lastly you spoke suggested that quantum mechanics might be responsible and even though that might be, stop and as yourself, where did the laws of quantum mechanics come from?Andre
May 2, 2013
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KF, fantastic OP. Thanks. This video on cell mitosis is an interesting parallel to your figure on Requisites on Self-replication. It shows the steps in the cell cycle, specifically all the stages of mitosis. It's a wonder of technological sophistication and expresses the requirements of the above-highlighted self-replicator. Your diagram reminded me of this.Chance Ratcliff
May 2, 2013
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The problem I and many have with ID is that I have never heard anyone specify who or what a designer is.
________ F/N, Jun 4, excerpting IOSE cites: A: >>We know from experience that intelligent agents build intricate machines that need all their parts to function [[--> i.e. he is specifically discussing "irreducibly complex" objects, structures or processes for which there is a core group of parts all of which must be present and properly arranged for the entity to function (cf. here, here and here)], things like mousetraps and motors. And we know how they do it -- by looking to a future goal and then purposefully assembling a set of parts until they’re a working whole. Intelligent agents, in fact, are the one and only type of thing we have ever seen doing this sort of thing from scratch. In other words, our common experience provides positive evidence of only one kind of cause able to assemble such machines. It’s not electricity. It’s not magnetism. It’s not natural selection working on random variation. It’s not any purely mindless process. It’s intelligence . . .>> [[William Dembski and Jonathan Witt, Intelligent Design Uncensored: An Easy-to-Understand Guide to the Controversy, pp. 20-21, 53 (InterVarsity Press, 2010). HT, CL of ENV & DI.] B: >>. . . (1) A designer conceives a purpose. (2) To accomplish that purpose, the designer forms a plan. (3) To execute the plan, the designer specifies building materials and assembly instructions. (4) Finally, the designer or some surrogate applies the assembly instructions to the building materials.>> ([Dembski,] No Free Lunch, p. xi. HT: ENV.) C: >>The central argument of my book is that intelligent design—the activity of a conscious and rational deliberative agent—best explains the origin of the information necessary to produce the first living cell. I argue this because of two things that we know from our uniform and repeated experience, which following Charles Darwin I take to be the basis of all scientific reasoning about the past. First, intelligent agents have demonstrated the capacity to produce large amounts of functionally specified information (especially in a digital form). Second, no undirected chemical process has demonstrated this power. Hence, intelligent design provides the best—most causally adequate—explanation for the origin of the information necessary to produce the first life from simpler non-living chemicals. In other words, intelligent design is the only explanation that cites a cause known to have the capacity to produce the key effect in question . . . . In order to [[scientifically refute this inductive conclusion] Falk would need to show that some undirected material cause has [[empirically] demonstrated the power to produce functional biological information apart from the guidance or activity a designing mind. Neither Falk, nor anyone working in origin-of-life biology, has succeeded in doing this . . .>> [S. Meyer, response to a hostile review of his key 2009 Design Theory book, Signature in the Cell.] --KF
If tomorrow it is found that quantum physics or chaos theory or whatever can explain evolution that is not random but is inherently traveling toward creating intelligent life, would that satisfy ID? For those believing in evolution, if tomorrow it is found that quantum physics has proven that consciousness (or ultimate Consciousness) guides evolution to a specific goal of intelligent life I think they would accept it and modify evolution to encompass the new findings. It would be incorporated into the theory of evolution. Until that is shown, (and it may be) they sit pat, waiting. (The problem they have is that biology hasn't yet advanced into quantum mechanics). Many scientists (mostly physicists) have come to the conclusion that consciousness is at the base of the universe (and evolution) but they are not ready to call it God. Consciousness as a primal force can explain everything without thinking of it as a Biblical God but as a force of the universe. Would ID be OK with that?billmaz
May 2, 2013
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Gregory: You have now come here and out of the gate you are making unwarranted personal attacks, instead of engaging issues on the merits. Don't you see what that tells the world about your attitude? I suggest that you focus on the substantial issue on the table, the one of primary interest to design thinkers and ordinary people not caught up in a weird world in which id means one thing and ID another but both in the end are rooted in an a priori theological commitment rather than empirical science. Neither of your options as they come across -- most of the time? -- is acceptable. Can you show good reason to reject the argument above, by giving a counter example, as you boasted of recently? Or otherwise answering on merits? If not, your bluff has been successfully called. KFkairosfocus
May 2, 2013
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Stop deceiving. 'Design theory' differs from 'Intelligent Design Theory' (IDT). Most 'design theorists' reject IDT. Reality check. Write 'Intelligent Design Theory' and not 'design theory.' That is what you mean to say and propagate anyway. The IDM (meaning DI leaders) has attempted to appropriate 'design theory' for itself. But IDists will obviously lose this attempt to be loved for what they are not.Gregory
May 2, 2013
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OT: "The brain of a small fruit fly uses energy in the micro-watts for complex flight control and visual information processing to find and fly to food. I don't think a supercomputer could yet simulate what the fruit fly brain does even while using megawatts of energy. The difference of over ten orders of magnitude and the level of energy used is an indication of just how incredible biological systems are. Professor Keiichi Namba, Osaka University http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=uw0-MHI_248#t=1645sbornagain77
May 2, 2013
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Good. Hold their feet to the fire.Axel
May 2, 2013
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I have thought that it is useful to headline a summary of what the design inference is about as a scientific inductive exercise, given recent clouding of issues and polarisation. KFkairosfocus
May 2, 2013
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