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Can we regard scientific theories as factual knowledge?

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In the What is knowledge thread, this has come up now, and I think it should be headlined:

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KF, 201: >> Can we regard scientific theories as factual knowledge?

This is a deep challenge, especially on the so-called pessimistic induction that historically theories in effect have hidden sell-by dates. That is, theories show more of a track record of replacement (sometimes presented as refinement) than we are comfortable with.

A first answer is that a theory, from the abductive angle, is a “best current explanatory framework,” often involving dynamics which may be deterministic or stochastic (or tempered by stochastic factors), and may be empirically reliable in a known or unknown range of circumstances. The turn of C20 surprises faced by Newtonian dynamics have been a major lesson.

The import is, that often theories are more like models that are “useful fictions”(with perhaps a few grains of deep truth in them) than descriptions of factors at work in reality that are all credibly true. This becomes especially so where theories address remote reaches of space or time where we cannot directly observe the actual circumstances. In these cases, we are limited to observations of traces of the circumstances, and we make models of the place and time, we have not got direct checks.

Scientific simulations or scenarios and visualisations tied to such, then become even more remote from the right to claim credible truth.

Of course, actual credible observations are much better as candidates for credible and reliable truth claims.

Such suggests that we need to be far more circumspect in our evaluation of scientific theories than we are sometimes wont to be, e.g. the tendency to say of climate dynamics models and projected developments of climate under human impact, that the science is “settled,” or that those who hold appropriate background — or even laymen expressing concerns — and raise questions on key issues are “deniers.”

The future is beyond current observations, so while we may be well advised to act with prudence, we should not exaggerate our knowledge claims on the future.

Similarly, we should be cautious about exoplanet studies and especially artistic renderings of suggested planets. These are — with a few exceptions — not direct observations, they are inferred from gravitational effects. We may be confident that planetary objects are there and may infer they are terrestrial or gas giant etc, but we should be cautious.

Reconstructions of the past of the cosmos, our solar system and planet, as well as the history of life are also beyond direct observation and should be presented with due cautions. Evidence such as the detection of clear cases of dinosaur soft tissues from a claimed 65+ MYA, should give us pause. And if there are cases where the smell of death/decay is still there, that should give us pause. I know there is a recent headline on a Triceratops horn being dated to 30+ kYA, but that should be taken with a grain of salt for the moment too.

When it comes to wider senses of science such as Economics, we should be even more cautious. Even something like GDP or an unemployment rate is a calculation not an observation. Often useful, but use with due caution.

I begin to suggest that we view theories more like models of high reliability that we hope capture something significant regarding the true dynamics of our world, but we are less than certain of that. The theories may be part of the body of knowledge of a field of study, but that is a matter of observing the field of study as itself a phenomenon subject to observation and evaluation. The credible truthfulness of the contents of a given theory and its key objects or processes and laws etc are something that we should likely take a very eclectic case by case view on. No-one has actually directly observed an electron, but we are highly confident that these entities exist, never mind weird quantum properties of such a “wavicle.” We can make a much better case for more or less observing an atom, given scanning techniques.

The remote future, or remote reaches of space or the remote past of origins, we do not directly observe. We would be well advised to be cautious, and to bear in mind the limitations of inductive methods of investigation.

Ironically, on the design inference debates, the reality of something like FSCO/I [= Functionally Specific Complex Organisation and/or associated Information] and its empirically observed origin are far better observed than the suggested deep-time powers of chance variation and differential reproductive success. But institutional power makes a big difference on how things are perceived. Which, is yet another caution: scientific “consensus” or the ex cathedra statements of august panels and their publicists should be taken with a grain of salt.

Science at its best is openly provisional and open-ended.>>

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Again, food for thought. END

Comments
Seversky, I can smell a party-line talking point emerging from a mile off. You have repeated what I have pointed out and others have, that the points of disagreement are strategic rather than substantial. What is substantial is that evolutionary materialistic scientism is both imposing a question-begging agenda that cripples scientific freedom of thought AND is self-referentially incoherent. As for, Lewontin does not agree, what part of "We" is it you don't understand; especially as contrasted with the caricatured hoi polloi who are to be manipulated? What part of "to put a correct view of the universe into people’s heads we must first get an incorrect view out," of "To Sagan, as to all but a few other scientists, it is self-evident that the practices of science provide the surest method of putting us in contact with physical reality . . . " and "we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated" is so hard to parse given we and us? Really, now! KFkairosfocus
December 2, 2017
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KF,
So, I note, do you see Lewontin disavowing the core scientism as noted? No.
I see no disavowal in this review, it is true.daveS
December 2, 2017
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Origines, yes. The reek of sneering arrogance and setting up and knocking over straweman caricatures is quite overwhelming. These people have little understanding of theism or theists or God, and substitute sneering and caricature for serious engagement that even recognises that they are dealing with people and need to bring themselves to a point of basic respect and common courtesy. Sadly, the later New Atheists would carry that to a whole new level of vitriol. KFkairosfocus
December 2, 2017
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I have to agree with DaveS and KN and others. Having read Lewontin's review in the NYRB and his posts in the subsequent comments, my understanding is that he finds Sagan's position at best to be naive, that he doesn't take enough account of the social and political contexts in which science is conducted. The passage from the review which KF quotes so often describes what we might call the scientistic position but does not endorse it in my view. There may well be scientists who hold that view but I don't think Lewontin is one of them.Seversky
December 2, 2017
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DS, much against the judgement that this is a successive tangents game, I will briefly remark, noting that I have already clipped enough to show my relevant point on the nature of scientism, that being supplementary to the point in the OP on the limits of scientific theories as exercises in knowledge-building. Stuff of great significance but which is not being discussed. So, I note, do you see Lewontin disavowing the core scientism as noted? No. His disputes are mostly over whether Sagan's strategy of promotion will work, with several points on more or less secondary issues such as exaggerating success of science [cf on cancer] etc. As for KN on science being socially influenced, sure it is. But the scientism advocates and power brokers -- Lewontin's "we" -- that influence is the domination of the new magisterium and the stamping out of "creationist" resistance. The core actual "Science" is rooted in the same imperialism thesis that Lewontin summarises so embarrassingly. If you deny this, simply show us how and where he repudiates the domination of evolutionary materialistic scientism and its power elites in key institutions. Show us where he acknowledges the self-referential incoherence and so self-falsification and goes out to do sounder epistemology. Otherwise, on fair comment, you are doing little more than trying to drag discussion off on any distractive tangent you can find. KFkairosfocus
December 2, 2017
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KF,
Going on, it is obvious that there is agreement on core substance but disagreement on agit-prop strategy. Yes, he picks up points of exaggeration like Cancer etc, but the focus of such critique as he has is the culture domination strategy, not the evolutionary materialistic scientism.
That's not obvious to me. In particular, it's not clear that he believes that science is the only "begetter of truth". He assigns that belief to Sagan. I was going to write a longer post, but I ran across this from four years ago at this very site, posted by Kantian Naturalist:
Kairosfocus, I have read Lewontin’s review, with and without your exegesis of it. I’m not accusing you of quote-mining; I’m just disagreeing with your interpretation. Who is making the argument that science is the only begetter of truth, kairosfocus? Sagan, almost certainly, for one. Sagan was, I think it’s fair to say, a staunch advocate of “scientism.” The question is whether Lewontin endorses scientism in his review of Sagan’s book. I don’t think he does, because all that gets put forth as a pragmatic a priori is the impossibility of radical occasionalism (as I’m calling it). And while this is not, I think it’s fair to say, a theologically attractive option, I have heard similar views expressed by my theologically unsophisticated but deeply religious students. For another thing, even if Lewontin endorses ‘scientism’ in his review of Sagan’s book, I know that ‘scientism’ is not Lewontin’s considered view, because I’ve read two of his books: The Dialectical Biologist and Biology as Ideology. In both books Lewontin is crystal-clear that science is influenced by social and political needs and assumptions, and I have trouble seeing how that approach is consistent with “scientism,” as Kairosfocus and others here use the term.
I haven't read any of Lewontin's other work, but my interpretation of the passage is the same as KN's. I think just about every debate that shows up here has already been covered thoroughly.daveS
December 2, 2017
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We definitely should...because MOST scientific theories are just pure bs cloaked in science, so that people who demand those theories can hear what they want to hear...J-Mac
December 2, 2017
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DaveS: Lewontin is shredding Sagan. This is unreal.
I just read the article, all I see is some mild criticism here and there. Lewontin thinking that there might be a better way to defeat their shared enemy. No fundamental disagreement as far as I can see. What an horrible article BTW. Little green men is mentioned 3 times; UFO 6 times. This is how Lewontin describes the theistic world view:
The demonic, for Sagan, includes, in addition to UFOs and their crews of little green men who take unwilling passengers for a midnight spin and some wild sex, astrological influences, extrasensory perception, prayers, spoon-bending, repressed memories, spiritualism, and channeling, as well as demons sensu strictu, devils, fairies, witches, spirits, Satan and his devotees, and, after some discreet backing and filling, the supposed prime mover Himself.
Origenes
December 2, 2017
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Origenes @ 24: A/mats seem incapable of understanding that logic. Not sure what the problem is.Truth Will Set You Free
December 2, 2017
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KF everywhere: You are on fire today. Nice work.Truth Will Set You Free
December 2, 2017
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DS, do you really want to go there? Okay, let's start with the beginning:
Billions and Billions of Demons RICHARD LEWONTIN January 9, 1997 New York Review of Books The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark by Carl Sagan 457 pages, $25.95 (hardcover) published by Random House "But the Solar System!" I protested. "What the deuce is it to me?" he interrupted impatiently: "you say that we go round the sun. If we went round the moon it would not make a pennyworth of difference to me or my work." —Colloquy between Dr. Watson and Sherlock Holmes in A Study in Scarlet I first met Carl Sagan in 1964, when he and I found ourselves in Arkansas on the platform of the Little Rock Auditorium, where we had been dispatched by command of the leading geneticist of the day, Herman Muller. Our task was to take the affirmative side in a debate: "Resolved, That the Theory of Evolution is proved as is the fact that the Earth goes around the Sun." One of our opponents in the debate was a professor of biology from a fundamentalist college in Texas (his father was the president of the college) who had quite deliberately chosen the notoriously evolutionist Department of Zoology of the University of Texas as the source of his Ph.D. He could then assure his students that he had unassailable expert knowledge with which to refute Darwinism. I had serious misgivings about facing an immense audience of creationist fundamentalist Christians in a city made famous by an Arkansas governor who, having detected a resentment of his constituents against federal usurpation, defied the power of Big Government by interposing his own body between the door of the local high school and some black kids who wanted to matriculate. Young scientists, however, do not easily withstand the urgings of Nobel Prize winners, so after several transparently devious attempts to avoid the job, I appeared. We were, in fact, well treated, but despite our absolutely compelling arguments, the audience unaccountably voted for the opposition. Carl and I then sneaked out the back door of the auditorium and beat it out of town, quite certain that at any moment hooded riders with ropes and flaming crosses would snatch up two atheistic New York Jews who had the chutzpah to engage in public blasphemy . . .
The loading should be obvious as well as my context of recall. Continuing:
Sagan and I drew different conclusions from our experience. For me the confrontation between creationism and the science of evolution was an example of historical, regional, and class differences in culture that could only be understood in the context of American social history. For Carl it was a struggle between ignorance and knowledge, although it is not clear to me what he made of the unimpeachable scientific credentials of our opponent, except perhaps to see him as an example of the Devil quoting scripture. The struggle to bring scientific knowledge to the masses has been a preoccupation of Carl Sagan's ever since, and he has become the most widely known, widely read, and widely seen popularizer of science since the invention of the video tube.
I would take a "shredding" to be a successful point by point defeat of content, not a dispute on the most effective strategy to lead an agreed message on to cultural domination. But then, perhaps we don't understand that term the same way. This is the run up to the excerpt's first parts:
Carl Sagan's program is more elementary. It is to bring a knowledge of the facts of the physical world to the scientifically uneducated public, for he is convinced that only through a broadly disseminated knowledge of the objective truth about nature will we be able to cope with the difficulties of the world and increase the sum of human happiness. It is this program that inspired his famous book and television series, Cosmos, which dazzled us with billions and billions of stars. But Sagan realizes that the project of merely spreading knowledge of objective facts about the universe is insufficient. First, no one can know and understand everything. Even individual scientists are ignorant about most of the body of scientific knowledge, and it is not simply that biologists do not understand quantum mechanics. If I were to ask my colleagues in the Museum of Comparative Zoology at Harvard to explain the evolutionary importance of RNA editing in trypanosomes, they would be just as mystified by the question as the typical well-educated reader of this review.
Going on, it is obvious that there is agreement on core substance but disagreement on agit-prop strategy. Yes, he picks up points of exaggeration like Cancer etc, but the focus of such critique as he has is the culture domination strategy, not the evolutionary materialistic scientism. That's why the conclusion runs:
What is at stake here is a deep problem in democratic self-governance. In Plato's most modern of Dialogues, the Gorgias, there is a struggle between Socrates, with whom we are meant to sympathize, and his opponents, Gorgias and Callicles, over the relative virtues of rhetoric and technical expertise. What Socrates and Gorgias agree on is that the mass of citizens are incompetent to make reasoned decisions on justice and public policy, but that they must be swayed by rhetorical argument or guided by the authority of experts.8 Gorgias: "I mean [by the art of rhetoric] the ability to convince by means of speech a jury in a court of justice, members of the Council in their Chamber, voters at a meeting of the Assembly, and any other gathering of citizens, whatever it may be." Socrates: "When the citizens hold a meeting to appoint medical officers or shipbuilders or any other professional class of person, surely it won't be the orator who advises them then. Obviously in every such election the choice ought to fall on the most expert."9 Conscientious and wholly admirable popularizers of science like Carl Sagan use both rhetoric and expertise to form the mind of masses because they believe, like the Evangelist John, that the truth shall make you free. But they are wrong. It is not the truth that makes you free. It is your possession of the power to discover the truth. Our dilemma is that we do not know how to provide that power.
In reality, they provide a crooked yardstick, evolutionary materialistic scientism. They seek to induce hoi polloi to make it their standard of straightness and accurate length. Then, when contrary truth comes forward it will never measure up to that crooked yardstick. That is the real problem, and it is a sobering lesson in the power of the agit prop operator's art. And, it is part of why here in 2017 we need to go back to long neglected basics. Such as can be seen in the OP and in the previous thread on what is knowledge. That is how bad and how dangerous things are. KFkairosfocus
December 2, 2017
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Origenes, much the same errors of self-referential incoherence over and over and over again. KFkairosfocus
December 2, 2017
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Rosenberg on scientism:
In the pages that follow, we won’t use the label “Bright” as a variant on atheist. But we’ll call the worldview that all us atheists (and even some agnostics) share “scientism.” This is the conviction that the methods of science are the only reliable ways to secure knowledge of anything; that science’s description of the world is correct in its fundamentals; and that when “complete,” what science tells us will not be surprisingly different from what it tells us today. We’ll often use the adjective “scientistic” in referring to the approaches, theories, methods, and descriptions of the nature of reality that all the sciences share. Science provides all the significant truths about reality, and knowing such truths is what real understanding is all about.
Note, the statement: "science provides all the significant truths about reality, and knowing such truths is what real understanding is all about" is not itself scientific, so, per its own claim, the statement is insignificant and has not to do with real understanding. Go figure.Origenes
December 2, 2017
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KF, Have you read the full article recently? If not I suggest you do so.daveS
December 2, 2017
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DS, Not so as I recall, he was reminiscing on a debate in the 60's where the two were on one side as either grad sudents or young post-docs, and seemed to think Sagan's work was well intentioned but was not likely to be overly effective. He put in the above reflecting his own Marxist context on how classes with power can shape cultures. Along the way he does try to shred those dumb fundy's of the South, complete with the notorious reference to the woman doubting getting a TV signal from the Moon as she couldn't get was it Houston where she lived. But then, maybe your interpretation of shredding sharply differs from mine. And Philip Johnson's retort in First Things is also quite relevant. But, all of that is tangential, the above speaks for itself and it characterises evolutionary materialistic scientism. This duppy sitting on the graveyard fence and crying boo is real. KF PS: Here is NSTA on just how real, in their July 2000 Board declaration:
The principal product of science is knowledge in the form of naturalistic concepts and the laws and theories related to those concepts [--> ideological imposition of a priori evolutionary materialistic scientism, aka natural-ISM; this is of course self-falsifying at the outset] . . . . [S]cience, along with its methods, explanations and generalizations, must be the sole focus of instruction in science classes to the exclusion of all non-scientific or pseudoscientific [--> loaded word that cannot be properly backed up due to failure of demarcation arguments] methods, explanations, generalizations and products [--> declaration of intent to ideologically censor education materials] . . . . Although no single universal step-by-step scientific method captures the complexity of doing science, a number of shared values and perspectives characterize a scientific approach to understanding nature. Among these are a demand for naturalistic explanations supported by empirical evidence that are, at least in principle, testable against the natural world. Other shared elements include observations, rational argument, inference, skepticism, peer review and replicability of work [--> undermined by the question-begging ideological imposition and associated censorship] . . . . Science, by definition, is limited to naturalistic methods and explanations and, as such, is precluded from using supernatural elements [--> question-begging false dichotomy, the proper contrast for empirical investigations is the natural (chance and/or necessity) vs the ART-ificial, through design . . . cf UD's weak argument correctives 17 - 19, here] in the production of scientific knowledge.
Getting a clue or two on just what sort of people Lewontin's "we" is talking about? Ask yourself what the same NSTA and the US NAS did jointly in Kansas just five years later, including why they were confident they could hold children hostage on their say-so that the kids' sci ed was null and void because they had been taught a definition of science they didn't like. A definition, BTW, that is historically well-warranted and is reasonable i/l/o issues in the OP above. Ask yourself how a radical, extremely ideologised one was substituted, and why the dominant media by and large failed -- or is this, refused -- to get the issue of what science is, straight.kairosfocus
December 2, 2017
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KF, Uhm, have you actually read the entire review?? Lewontin is shredding Sagan. This is unreal. PS:
Have a look in The Demon-Haunted World, subtitled Science as a Candle in the Dark.
I read it when it first came out.daveS
December 2, 2017
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Origenes, this is obviously evolutionary materialist scientism. KFkairosfocus
December 2, 2017
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DS, Lewontin speaks for "we" contrasted with "them," hoi polloi. "We" have power to manipulate education and inject anti-theism, imposing evolutionary materialist scientism in the name of science, because, presumably of its scientific prestige and linked cultural and institutional clout. He envisions mass or even universal indoctrination in this form of atheism, and in scientific materialism. He is an elite Scientist from Harvard and a friend of Sagan from Cornell, IIRC. What cultural elite new magisterium with that kind of power over science, education, media and public opinion could this possibly be? You, kindly tell us: _______ where, for one it could not have been just the two, Sagan and Lewontin. KF PS: It is beginning to look like an attempt to evade the patent, DS. PPS: Have a look in The Demon-Haunted World, subtitled Science as a Candle in the Dark.kairosfocus
December 2, 2017
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Origenes, "Science as the only begetter of truth" is Lewontin's characterization of Sagan's view; does Sagan himself say that anywhere? For all I know, he may have, but I don't know of a source.daveS
December 2, 2017
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KF:
Lewontin: … the problem is to get them [= hoi polloi] to reject irrational and supernatural explanations of the world, the demons that exist only in their imaginations, and to accept a social and intellectual apparatus, Science, as the only begetter of truth …
NB: this is a knowledge claim about knowledge and its possible sources, i.e. it is a claim in philosophy not science; it is thus self-refuting.
We have seen a lot of that lately. Let us tease this out a bit: - - - - 1. Science is the only begetter of truth. 2. The claim “science is the only begetter of truth” is itself not science. Therefore, from (1) and (2) 3. The claim “science is the only begetter of truth” is not true. Therefore 4. Science is not the only begetter of truth. - - - - What is the underlying cause for all these self-defeating claims?Origenes
December 2, 2017
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Let's be clear here---Lewontin does not hold all the views in the passages you quoted. In fact, this is review of Sagan's book is scathing. Lewontin even takes shots at E.O. Wilson and Richard Dawkins:
Carl Sagan’s list of the “best contemporary science-popularizers” includes E.O. Wilson, Lewis Thomas, and Richard Dawkins, each of whom has put unsubstantiated assertions or counterfactual claims at the very center of the stories they have retailed in the market. Wilson’s Sociobiology and On Human Nature rest on the surface of a quaking marsh of unsupported claims about the genetic determination of everything from altruism to xenophobia. Dawkins’s vulgarizations of Darwinism speak of nothing in evolution but an inexorable ascendancy of genes that are selectively superior, while the entire body of technical advance in experimental and theoretical evolutionary genetics of the last fifty years has moved in the direction of emphasizing non-selective forces in evolution. *** What worries me is that they may believe what Dawkins and Wilson tell them about evolution.
Link to the full review here.daveS
December 2, 2017
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Much more than Sagan, as a member of the scientific elites he speaks representatively. As was highlighted.kairosfocus
December 2, 2017
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Regarding #18, that's Lewontin characterizing the views of Sagan, correct?daveS
December 2, 2017
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More vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjkkJYQnZtYkairosfocus
December 2, 2017
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KF,
the practices of science provide the surest method of putting us in contact with physical reality
I think that's worth debating, even aside from the issue of scientism. I don't know that it's true (maybe the surest way is to drink a mug of ayahuasca), but it's perhaps a good first guess.daveS
December 2, 2017
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PPS: While I'm at it, notice the worldview espoused by Lewontin and put in terms of being common among the elites:
. . . to put a correct view of the universe into people's heads [==> as in, "we" have cornered the market on truth, warrant and knowledge, making "our" "consensus" the yardstick of truth . . . ] we must first get an incorrect view out [--> as in, if you disagree with "us" of the secularist elite you are wrong, irrational and so dangerous you must be stopped, even at the price of manipulative indoctrination of hoi polloi] . . . the problem is to get them [= hoi polloi] to reject irrational and supernatural explanations of the world, the demons that exist only in their imaginations,
[ --> as in, to think in terms of ethical theism is to be delusional, justifying "our" elitist and establishment-controlling interventions of power to "fix" the widespread mental disease]
and to accept a social and intellectual apparatus, Science, as the only begetter of truth
[--> NB: this is a knowledge claim about knowledge and its possible sources, i.e. it is a claim in philosophy not science; it is thus self-refuting]
. . . . To Sagan, as to all but a few other scientists [--> "we" are the dominant elites], it is self-evident
[--> actually, science and its knowledge claims are plainly not immediately and necessarily true on pain of absurdity, to one who understands them; this is another logical error, begging the question , confused for real self-evidence; whereby a claim shows itself not just true but true on pain of patent absurdity if one tries to deny it . . . and in fact it is evolutionary materialism that is readily shown to be self-refuting]
that the practices of science provide the surest method of putting us in contact with physical reality [--> = all of reality to the evolutionary materialist], and that, in contrast, the demon-haunted world rests on a set of beliefs and behaviors that fail every reasonable test [--> i.e. an assertion that tellingly reveals a hostile mindset, not a warranted claim] . . . . It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us [= the evo-mat establishment] to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes [--> another major begging of the question . . . ] to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute [--> i.e. here we see the fallacious, indoctrinated, ideological, closed mind . . . ], for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door . . . [--> irreconcilable hostility to ethical theism, already caricatured as believing delusionally in imaginary demons]. [Lewontin, Billions and billions of Demons, NYRB Jan 1997,cf. here. And, if you imagine this is "quote-mined" I invite you to read the fuller annotated citation here.]
This is a classic illustration of the relevant mindset. One, that I have often highlighted here at UD. Recall, this is part of a NYRB review of Sagan's The Demon-Haunted world. Sagan, being an Astrophysicist.kairosfocus
December 2, 2017
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Regarding the Krauss clip, I assume you're talking about the first 12 seconds of the video? I have no idea of the context or what he's responding to. I would much prefer to see something in writing (by the alleged proponents of scientism) rather than these silly videos.daveS
December 2, 2017
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08:21 AM
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DS, I bring you Krauss in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hL4Gq1Le2rQ What do you think he means when he dismisses all but "empirical" "facts"? KF PS: I'll just add here. By the time you cut off, you will have seen the failure to understand non-being. Onward, you would have seen dismissal of a distinguished (and agnostic) PhD philosopher as having special training in "obscurantism." He later dissed a Physicist and Philosopher. Scientism is a common and widely influential view, especially among Internet Atheists.kairosfocus
December 2, 2017
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08:16 AM
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KF,
H’mm: Here is Dawkins in action on much the same topic:
Do you have a better video, one that's not heavily edited and interspersed with clips of John McEnroe throwing a temper tantrum? I closed the window at that point.daveS
December 2, 2017
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Do these physicists say that "science is all or almost all of “serious” knowledge or is the only way to acquire credible knowledge" or the equivalent?daveS
December 2, 2017
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08:11 AM
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