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Failure of the “compensation argument” and implausibility of evolution

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Granville Sewell and Daniel Styer have a thing in common: both wrote an article with the same title “Entropy and evolution”. But they reach opposite conclusions on a fundamental question: Styer says that the evolutionist “compensation argument” (henceforth “ECA”) is ok, Sewell says it isn’t. Here I briefly explain why I fully agree with Granville. The ECA is an argument that tries to resolve the problems the 2nd law of statistical mechanics (henceforth 2nd_law_SM) posits to unguided evolution. I adopt Styer’s article as ECA archetype because he also offers calculations, which make clearer its failure.

The 2nd_law_SM as problem for evolution.

The 2nd_law_SM says that a isolated system goes toward its more probable macrostates. In this diagram the arrow represents the 2nd_law_SM rightward trend/direction:

organization … improbable_states … systems ====>>> probable_states

Sewell says:

“The second law is all about using probability at the microscopic level to predict macroscopic change. […] This statement of the second law, or at least of the fundamental principle behind the second law, is the one that should be applied to evolution.”

The physical evolution of a isolated system passes spontaneously through macrostates with increasing values of probability until arriving to equilibrium (the most probable macrostate). Since organization is highly improbable a corollary of the 2nd_law_SM is that isolated systems don’t self-organize. That is the opposite of what biological evolution pretends.

See the picture:

cs1

Styer’s ECA.

Since the 2nd_law_SM applies to isolated systems the ECA says: the Earth E is not a isolated system, then its entropy can decrease thanks to an entropy increase (compensation) in the surroundings S (wrt to the energy coming from the Sun). Unfortunately to consider open the systems is useless, because, as Sewell puts it:

“If an increase in order is extremely improbable when a system is closed, it is still extremely improbable when the system is open, unless something is entering which makes it not extremely improbable.”

Here is how Styer applies the ECA to show that “evolution is consistent with the 2nd law”.
Suppose that, due to evolution, each individual organism is 1000 times more improbable that the corresponding individual was 100 years ago (Emory Bunn says 1000 times is incorrect, it should be 10^25 times, but this is a detail). If Wi is the number of microstates consistent with the specification of an initial organism I 100 years ago, and Wf is the number of microstates consistent with the specification of today’s improved and less probable organism F, then

Wf = Wi / 1000

At this point he uses Boltzmann’s formula:

S = k * ln (W)

where S = entropy, W = number of microstates, k = 1.38 x 10^-23 joules/degrees, ln = logarithm.

Then he calculates the entropy change over 100 years, and finally the entropy decrease per second:

Sf – Si = -3.02 x 10^-30 joules/degrees

By considering all individuals of all species he gets the change in entropy of the biosphere each second: -302 joules/degrees. Since he knows that the Earth’s physical entropy throughput (due to energy from the Sun) each second is: 420 x 10^12 joules/degrees he concludes: “at a minimum the Earth is bathed in about one trillion times the amount of entropy flux required to support the rate of evolution assumed here”, then evolution is largely consistent with the 2nd law.

The problem in Styer’s argument (and in general in the ECA).

Although it could seem an innocent issue of measure units the introduction of the Boltzmann’s formula with k = 1.38 x 10^-23 joules/degrees in this context is a conceptual error. With such formula the ECA has transformed a difficult problem of probability (in connection with the arise of ultra-complex organized systems) into a simple issue of energy (“joule” is unit of energy, work, or amount of heat). This assumes a priori that energy is able to organize organisms from sparse atoms. But such assumption is totally gratuitous and unproved. That energy can do that is exactly what the ECA should prove in the first place. So Styer’s ECA begs the question.

Similarly Andy McIntosh (cited by Sewell) says:

Both Styer and Bunn calculate by slightly different routes a statistical upper bound on the total entropy reduction necessary to ‘achieve’ life on earth. This is then compared to the total entropy received by the Earth for a given period of time. However, all these authors are making the same assumption—viz. that all one needs is sufficient energy flow into a [non-isolated] system and this will be the means of increasing the probability of life developing in complexity and new machinery evolving. But as stated earlier this begs the question…

The Boltzmann’s formula in the ECA, with its introduction of joules of energy, establishes a bridge between probabilities and the joules coming from the Sun. Unfortunately this link is unsubstantiated here because no one has proved that joules cause biological organization. On the contrary, in my previous post “The illusion of organizing energy” I explained why any kind of energy per se cannot create organization in principle. To greater reason, thermal energy is unable to the task. In fact, heat is the more degraded and disordered kind of energy, the one with maximum entropy. So the ECA would contain also an internal contradiction: by importing entropy in E one decreases entropy in E!

The problem of Boltzmann’s formula, as used in the ECA, is then “to buy” probability bonus with energy “money”. Sewell expresses the same concept with different words:

The compensation argument is predicated on the idea […] that the universal currency for entropy is thermal entropy.

That conversion / compensation is not allowed if one hasn’t proved at the outset a direct causation role of energy in producing the effect, biological organization, which is in the opposite direction of the 2nd_law_SM rightward arrow (extreme left on the above diagram). In a sense the ECA conflates two different planes. This wrong conflation is like to say that a roulette placed inside a refrigerated room can easily output 1 million “black” in a row because its entropy is decreased compared to the outside.

Note that evolution doesn’t imply a single small deviation from the trend, quite differently it implies countless highly improbable processes happened continually in countless organisms during billion years. Who claims that evolution doesn’t violate the 2nd_law_SM, would doubt a violation if countless tornados always turned rubble into houses, cars and computers for billion years? Sewell asks (backward tornado is the metaphor he uses more). In conclusion Roger Caillois is right: “Clausius and Darwin cannot both be right.”

Implausibility of evolution.

Styer’s paper is also an opportunity to see the problem of evolution from a probabilistic viewpoint. You will note the huge difference of difficulty of the probabilistic scenario compared to the above enthusiastic thermal entropy scenario, with potentially 1,000,000,000,000 times evolution!
In Appendix #2 he proposes a problem for students: “How much improved and less probable would each organism be, relative to its (possibly single-celled) ancestor at the beginning of the Cambrian explosion? (Answer: 10 raised to the 1.8 x 10^22 times)”. Call this monster number “a”, Wi = the initial microstates, Wf = the final microstates, W = the total microstates. According to Styer’s answer (which is correct as calculation) we have:

Wf = Wi / a

The probability of the initial macrostate is Wi / W. The probability of the final macrostate is Wf / W. Suppose Wf = 1, then Wi is = a. W must be equal or greater a otherwise (Wi / W) would be greater than 1 (impossible). Therefore the probability to occur of the final macrostate is:

(Wf / W) equal or less (1 / a)

This is the probability of evolution of a single individual organism in the Cambrian:

1 on 10 raised to the 1.8 x 10^22

a number with more than 10^22 digits (10 trillion billion digits). This miraculous event had to occur 10^18 times, for each of other organisms.

Dembski’s “universal probability bound” is:

1 / 10^150

1 on a number with “only” 150 digits. Therefore evolution is far beyond the plausibility threshold. In conclusion: the ECA fails to prove that “evolution is consistent with the 2nd law”, and we have also a proof of the implausibility of evolution based on probability.

Some could object: “you cannot have both ways, if the ECA is wrong then Appendix #2 is wrong too, because it uses the same method, then the evolution probability is not correct”.
Answer: the method is biased toward evolution both in ECA and in Appendix #2. This means the evolution probability is even worse than that, and the implausibility of evolution holds to greater reason.

Comments
franklin:
The ‘lesser complex’ evolution of the aerobic citrate transport system in e coli debunks Behe’s concept IC.
Only a complete moron would think sio especially given what I posted. Obviously you are just a deluded troll.
It doesn’t matter what my position ahs or does not have.
Of course it does! ID just has to reach the level of teh current paradigm. Your ignorance is also duly noted.Joe
April 1, 2015
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Zac says, A gas released in a vacuum chamber fills the chamber, but the gas does not target the corners of a vacuum chamber. I say, That is a great way to look at it. As far as evolution is concerned the amazing highly specified low entropy things we see in nature are produced by the equivalent of gas filling up the various corners of a vacuum chamber. According to evolution any particular highly complex configuration we see is no more likely than any other possible grouping of matter. It just happens to have fallen that way. like I said it's precisely like explaining an intricate statue by appealing to the power of the wind. Now do you get the relevance of the tornado in a junkyard analogy? When we see such a thing we naturally assume it to be violation of the second law. peacefifthmonarchyman
March 31, 2015
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Joe: No new proteins were formed. No new machinery was formed. Everything already existed. But it was non functional, it was missing parts. Can you have functional information in something that is non functional?velikovskys
March 31, 2015
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joe
That doesn’t follow. The E coli had the gene to the citrate transport protein. It had the ability to digest citrate once the citrate was transported inside the cell.
Of course it follows, joe. Another simple straightforward question for you: What is the basis for the Citrate test?
Then you should be able to name a component or gene that did not exist prior to the experiment.
the gene coding for a protein involved in citrate transport that is expressed under aerobic conditions. Will you (or are you able to) acknowledge that this system was absent in the initial strain of e coli in the expt? joe
IC system consists of one or only a few parts, there may be no insuperable obstacle to the Darwinian mechanism explaining how that system arose in one fell swoop.
Obviously, the results of the Lenski expt did not occur in 'one fell swoop' so how is this example applicable? joe
He’s wrong. To falsify design theory a scientist need only experimentally demonstrate that a bacterial flagellum, or any other comparably complex system, could arise by natural selection. If that happened I would conclude that neither flagella nor any system of similar or lesser complexity had to have been designed.
The 'lesser complex' evolution of the aerobic citrate transport system in e coli debunks Behe's concept IC. Joe, nothing you posted states the minimum number of components required for a system to be considered to be IC. You can try again if you wish. jow
Right, and all your position has is “it just happened, dude”, so your complaints against ID are very hollow.
It doesn't matter what my position ahs or does not have. We are discussing ID and its concepts on a ID centric blog (outside of the great volume of religious posts) so all that matters is what ID can bring to the table. It is obvious to all that ID does not have the tools to be able to analyze the data from Lenski's expt to determine 'design' versus 'nondesign' outside of your earlier assessment of 'it seems designed to me' which of course it the problem with all of ID.franklin
March 31, 2015
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franklin:
If all the genetics were in place E coli would have the ability to transport citrate into the cell in the presence of oxygen and a entire diagnostic tool would have never been developed, i.e., the Citrate test.
That doesn't follow. The E coli had the gene to the citrate transport protein. It had the ability to digest citrate once the citrate was transported inside the cell.
Of course everything did not already exist.
Then you should be able to name a component or gene that did not exist prior to the experiment.
Vel already posted (several times in fact) the definition of IC as used by IDists and there is no mention of a minimum of a five component system only that function will cease if any part is removed.
Actually he posted an old definition. I used the example that went with that definition. I can't help it if you are too dim to understand that. The updated definition of IC was provided in "No Free Lunch": Irreducible Complexity:
IC- A system performing a given basic function is irreducibly complex if it includes a set of well-matched, mutually interacting, non-arbitrarily individuated parts such that each part in the set is indispensable to maintaining the system’s basic, and therefore original, function. The set of these indispensable parts is known as the irreducible core of the system. Page 285 NFL
Numerous and Diverse Parts If the irreducible core of an IC system consists of one or only a few parts, there may be no insuperable obstacle to the Darwinian mechanism explaining how that system arose in one fell swoop. But as the number of indispensable well-fitted, mutually interacting,, non-arbitrarily individuated parts increases in number & diversity, there is no possibility of the Darwinian mechanism achieving that system in one fell swoop. Page 287
Minimal Complexity and Function Given an IC system with numerous & diverse parts in its core, the Darwinian mechanism must produce it gradually. But if the system needs to operate at a certain minimal level of function before it can be of any use to the organism & if to achieve that level of function it requires a certain minimal level of complexity already possessed by the irreducible core, the Darwinian mechanism has no functional intermediates to exploit. Page 287
Dr Behe responds to IC criticisms:
One last charge must be met: Orr maintains that the theory of intelligent design is not falsifiable. He's wrong. To falsify design theory a scientist need only experimentally demonstrate that a bacterial flagellum, or any other comparably complex system, could arise by natural selection. If that happened I would conclude that neither flagella nor any system of similar or lesser complexity had to have been designed. In short, biochemical design would be neatly disproved.- Dr Behe in 1997
Given Behe's example of a 5-component mouse trap being out of the reach of blind and undirected processes, that would be the place to start if you wanted to chip away at IC. Let the whining begin.
I am not looking for ‘reasoning’ or ‘statements’ I want a description of the analytical methodology used to analyze the sequence of mutational events in the Lenski expt that lead to a design conclusion.
Right, and all your position has is "it just happened, dude", so your complaints against ID are very hollow.Joe
March 31, 2015
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joe
franklin, Obviously you have reading comprehension problem. Yes all of the genetics were in place.
No I read what you wrote and noted that it did not address the question I asked....a very simple and clear cut question that you appear to be loath to answer. Failure to answer the question borders on the absurd given the answer is the basis of the diagnostic tool used to differentiate E coli from other pathogenic bacteria, i.e., Citrate test. If all the genetics were in place E coli would have the ability to transport citrate into the cell in the presence of oxygen and a entire diagnostic tool would have never been developed, i.e., the Citrate test. joe
No new proteins were formed. No new machinery was formed. Everything already existed.
Of course everything did not already exist. If it did the e coli in the experiment would have been able to use the citrate in the culture media from day one....it did not....that ability had to evolve. The newly evolved 'machinery' is clearly the aerobic citrate transport system that did not exist prior to the start of the expt and did not arise for many thousands of generations. jpw
Reference for IC and a minimum of 5 components- Behe “Darwin’s Black Box”
Vel already posted (several times in fact) the definition of IC as used by IDists and there is no mention of a minimum of a five component system only that function will cease if any part is removed. Your example is not the definition. Nice try (but pathetic) at redefining the terms in order to ignore the data. Joe
“Not By Chance” definitely states and provides the reasoning that gene duplications are not chance events.
I am not looking for 'reasoning' or 'statements' I want a description of the analytical methodology used to analyze the sequence of mutational events in the Lenski expt that lead to a design conclusion. Recall that every nucleotide in these bacteria have been mutated at least once. The description will necessarily include a statistics in some form......you've been asked repeatedly and everyone can see you cannot provide the ID methodology.....likely because it does not exist. Write it up as it would appear in a Mat. and Met. section in a journal submission with sufficient detail (and references) so anyone could repeat the anslysis for themselves.franklin
March 31, 2015
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fifthmonarchyman: Because we are trying to eliminate noise and focus on just the relevant factors. Schrödinger's cat (as opposed to Henri, le chat existentielle) concerns quantum effects. The stochastic nature of the events are essential to the experiment, and unavoidable in any case. fifthmonarchyman: Cool so you agree that entropy in microstates can have a relationship to macro-organization. You're using the word "organization", so it's not clear what you mean. However, there is certainly a relationship between the microstates and the macrostate of a thermodynamic system. The Boltzmann equation relates the entropy to the the number of available microstates in the macrostate. fifthmonarchyman: Is evolution concerned that a particular niche is filled? "Concerned" is not really the right word. If there's an available niche, and an adaptation available to evolution to fill that niche, then evolution will tend to fill the niche. fifthmonarchyman: it just does not target anything in particular. A gas released in a vacuum chamber fills the chamber, but the gas does not target the corners of a vacuum chamber.Zachriel
March 31, 2015
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The species will fill a niche, it does not matter which one to evolution.
Several different species can fill the same niche. And it's all cool with baraminology.Joe
March 31, 2015
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Situation and environment are one in the same and plays an integral role in the process of evolution. The species will fill a niche, it does not matter which one to evolution. Evolution targets species to become more adapted to their environment through changes to what already exists. I'm sure you have "biologist friends" chuckling somewhere, congratulations. You are talking in circles and therefore this conversation is going to go absolutely nowhere. Please go find a biologist and tell them that "wind-statue" one-liner, I wish I could be there to see it. Goodbye.Curly Howard
March 31, 2015
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Curly Cue, at least TRY to learn the basics: InTelligent Design is NOT anti-evolutionJoe
March 31, 2015
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Hurly Coward, your insipid trolling is getting boring. Why do you think your ignorance means something? Do you really think that you can bully us with your imbecilic ranting?Joe
March 31, 2015
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franklin, Obviously you have reading comprehension problem. Yes all of the genetics were in place. The E. coli all had the ability to utilize citrate and transport it across the membrane. The transport protein is just not expressed in an aerobic environment. No new proteins were formed. No new machinery was formed. Everything already existed. Reference for IC and a minimum of 5 components- Behe "Darwin's Black Box" "Not By Chance" definitely states and provides the reasoning that gene duplications are not chance events. And AGAIN all you have is "it just happened, dude" so perhaps you should just sit back and shut up.Joe
March 31, 2015
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CH says, Formation of simple tissues and adaptation in this case are one in the same. I say, Of course there other obvious cases when simple tissue formation is not conducive at all to adaptation. It really depends on the situation. and if it depends on the situation then the situation is the cause and not evolution. Again that is the point. you say, Adaptation of a species to an environment fits that species into its niche, so yes, eviction is certainly concerned with filling niches. I say, Once again evolution is concerned with fitting a species to it's niche not at all concerned in filling a particular niche with a species. Evolution does not target particular things. Your posts have only served underline that point. you say, Any biologist would look at the things you are saying and laugh. You say I happen to know one or two who chuckle a bit at the obvious observation I'm making. ;-) peacefifthmonarchyman
March 31, 2015
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Ladies and gentlemen, introducing our newest comedic duo: Fifthmonarchy and Joey!Curly Howard
March 31, 2015
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Dear Curly Cue, The point is you don't have a mechanism that can get you beyond prokaryotes and that is given starting populations of prokaryotes. Dr (Margulis) Sagan's work with endosymbiosis has never progressed beyond "shucks those organelles look like they coulda been prokaryotes at one time", AND it doesn't account for the nucleus, without which you don't have a eukaryote. A neuron without the proper ions and pumps is useless. But then again I am sure you are ignorant of all of that.Joe
March 31, 2015
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joe
franklin: simple question, joe, did the strain of E coli used in Lenski’s expt have the ability to transport citrate across the cell membrane in the presence at the start of the expt? Joe: Yes, it did, in an anaerobic environment.
reading comprhension problem, joe? The correct answer is no, the bacterial strain (E coli) used in this expt did not possess the ability to transport citrate, in the presence of oxygen, across the cell membrane. joe
So several means five or more, got it. In the case of IC, yes.
reference required jow
Yes, we do. Read “Not By Chance” by Dr Lee Spetner.
nope nothing there that describes the methodology to ascertain if a sequence of mutations in an expt such as Lenski are designed or not. Try again or just admit ID has nothing available to make this determination.franklin
March 31, 2015
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Oh my ,fifth. Oh my. Formation of simple tissues and adaptation in this case are one in the same. Simple tissues are besides the point as far as evolution goes? Are you kidding me? There is a huge advantage in being able to communicate with nearby cells. In fact bacteria demonstrate this: many species form biofilms. Adaptation of a species to an environment fits that species into its niche, so yes, evolution is certainly concerned with filling niches. For the last time, you don't understand what you are talking about. Any biologist would look at the things you are saying and laugh.Curly Howard
March 31, 2015
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Curly Howard says, Have you thought about being a comedian? I say, I know this conversation has been good for a few laughs from my perspective. ;-)fifthmonarchyman
March 31, 2015
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Curly Howard says, but evolution at that time was targeting the formation of simple tissues. I say, Was evolution actually targeting the formation of simple tissues or was it merely targeting adaption to the environment? use your head man Simple tissues are beside the point as far as evolution goes. All evolution is concerned about is adaptation Bacteria demonstrate quite nicely that things besides simple tissues would have worked just as well. you say, Sponges demonstrate exactly what is needed to survive in their ecological niche. I say, Is evolution concerned that a particular niche is filled? I thought it was all about adaption to the environment. you say, I am not missing the point at all fifth I say, apparently you are you say, the problem is that you don’t have the necessary understanding to see my point. I say, I see your point it's just that your point is irrelevant to the current discussion. Evolution may or may not produce all kinds of nifty things by accident it just does not target anything in particular. This is really simple. What any process engineer will tell you. If a process does not target a thing it can't be relied on to produce it. peacefifthmonarchyman
March 31, 2015
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Zac says, Why not just make it a window of time instead? I say, Because we are trying to eliminate noise and focus on just the relevant factors. You say, In any case, radioactive decay increases the entropy of the system. I say, Cool so you agree that entropy in microstates can have a relationship to macro-organization. So the second law is not necessarily irrelevant. That is something at least. In this case an increase in entropy equals death of the cat. Peacefifthmonarchyman
March 31, 2015
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Meanwhile ... the 2nd law targets quite the opposite.Box
March 31, 2015
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"[blind] evolution...targeting" Uh okaymike1962
March 31, 2015
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I am not missing the point at all fifth, the problem is that you don't have the necessary understanding to see my point. Let me spell it out. Yes evolution is not specifically targeting the highly specialized neuron cells that we see today, but evolution at that time was targeting the formation of simple tissues. This requires at least the things I mentioned: physical interactions between cells and communication between cells. Sponges demonstrate exactly what is needed to survive in their ecological niche. "Evolution is not a particularly appropriate explanation for neurons" It is the only explanation. And as to your "wind-statue" example, again. Have you thought about being a comedian?Curly Howard
March 31, 2015
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fifthmonarchyman: If it were possible for the atoms to decay simultaneously would the entropy of the system increase or decrease at that very instant? Why not just make it a window of time instead? In any case, radioactive decay increases the entropy of the system.Zachriel
March 31, 2015
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zac says The hydrocyanic acid will never be released, and the cat will live. However, the entropy of the system will increase due to the radioactive decay, I say, Against my better judgement. If it were possible for the atoms to decay simultaneously would the entropy of the system increase or decrease at that very instant? Remember we are talking about an instant with a before and an after. At time T1 the entropy is X (the 50 atoms are disorganized) At time T2 the entropy is Y (The 50 atoms are highly organized) Could we in theory subtract X from Y? Would the result be negative or positive? Thanks peacefifthmonarchyman
March 31, 2015
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vel:
So several means five or more, got it.
In the case of IC, yes.Joe
March 31, 2015
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franklin:
simple question, joe, did the strain of E coli used in Lenski’s expt have the ability to transport citrate across the cell membrane in the presence at the start of the expt?
Yes, it did, in an anaerobic environment. Everything was there, in working order. Lenski's E coli had everything they needed- as in they didn't need any new components, ie proteins.
Or is it an evolved function?
ID is OK with evolution.
ID has no methodology to determine if a sequence of mutational events is designed or not.
Yes, we do. Read "Not By Chance" by Dr Lee Spetner.Joe
March 31, 2015
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Hey All. I would not waste a lot of time debating Lenski’s experiment here. IMHO It's just a red hearing attempt by the critics to avoid the actual issue being discussed, Peacefifthmonarchyman
March 31, 2015
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Curly Howard says, The evolution of neurons twice is less likely than it happening just once based on “chance” alone and with all other things being equal.We are talking about a time in evolutionary history when new tissue types are being experimented with by evolution and the arrival of “proto-neural tissue” is not as impossible as the article makes it out to be. I say, You are still completely missing the point. Evolution is not targeting neurons. Neurons are beside the point as far as evolution is concerned. Sponges demonstrate that neurons are not particularly vital for species to adapt to the environment another simpler system would surely work just as well. So "Evolution" is not a particularly appropriate explanation for neurons. Yet neurons show up .....twice. like I said before explaining low entropy highly specified events with "evolution" is like explaining an intricate statue by appealing to the force of the wind. peacefifthmonarchyman
March 31, 2015
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Sal says, I wouldn’t go there. I say, That is a shame. I really think that that particular thought experiment gets to the heart of the misunderstanding. The connection between microstates and macro-organization. Oh well. We can still be allies even if we disagree from time to time peacefifthmonarchyman
March 31, 2015
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